Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES7317to7366 Page 44 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7317 From: Pierre Benhaiem Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7318 From: Rod Read Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7319 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7320 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7321 From: Bob Stuart Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7322 From: edoishi Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Sorting kite arches by wind-direction dependence (plus "Kite Dom

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7323 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains Re: Fabrics for AWES arrays

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7324 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Sorting kite arches by wind-direction dependence (plus "Kite Dom

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7325 From: Dave Lang Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7326 From: dave santos Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Most Efficient Vertical Lift in Most Probable Wind

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7327 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Italy challenge: Alcoa smelter and KiteGen?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7328 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Fabric-based tethered decelerators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7329 From: dave santos Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Speed Limit for Fabric Wings //Re: [AWES] Arch of trains

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7330 From: dave santos Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Hawker Hurricane Fabric Framing Max Span- ~10cm ("fabric speed limit

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7331 From: John Oyebanji Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Fw: 2nd International Conference Energy & Meteorology - Call for Abs

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7332 From: dave santos Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: The Continuum of Flutter, Flapping, and Whipping Effects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7333 From: Bob Stuart Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: The Continuum of Flutter, Flapping, and Whipping Effects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7334 From: dave santos Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: New Bird Poop Failure Mode (Fouled Electrical Windings and Heat Sink

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7335 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Design of a Distributed Kite Power Control System

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7336 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: High level control and optimization of kite power systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7337 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Simple surface success brings further project dream into gnuLAB3

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7338 From: christopher carlin Date: 10/3/2012
Subject: Re: The Continuum of Flutter, Flapping, and Whipping Effects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7339 From: roderickjosephread Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Tensarity beam as a quill

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7340 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Splint or reinforcing or enhancing fluid beams

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7341 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Re: Splint or reinforcing or enhancing fluid beams

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7342 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Re: Splint or reinforcing or enhancing fluid beams

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7343 From: Uwe Fechner Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Re: High level control and optimization of kite power systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7344 From: Uwe Fechner Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Re: Design of a Distributed Kite Power Control System

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7345 From: dave santos Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Banner Flutter //Re: [AWES] The Continuum of Flutter, Flapping, and

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7346 From: edoishi Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: AWE teaser

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7347 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Fwd: Wind Power India 2012 - conference registration open

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7348 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Banner Flutter //Re: [AWES] The Continuum of Flutter, Flapping, and

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7349 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Mine the hurricanes with WOW

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7350 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Offshore AWES zones of operation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7351 From: John Oyebanji Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Re: Fwd: Wind Power India 2012 - conference registration open

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7352 From: dave santos Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Mine Hurricane Science (in reverse) //Re: [AWES] Mine the hurricanes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7353 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Free-flight kiting for delivery purposes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7354 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Down selection

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7355 From: Rod Read Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Re: New Bird Poop Failure Mode (Fouled Electrical Windings and Heat

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7356 From: Rod Read Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Re: New Bird Poop Failure Mode (Fouled Electrical Windings and Heat

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7357 From: dave santos Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: Rain and Soft Kites //Re: [AWES] New Bird Poop Failure Mode

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7358 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
Subject: GPADS // Re: Free-flight kiting for delivery purposes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7359 From: Pierre Benhaiem Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Lang's patent

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7360 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Lang's patent

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7361 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Lang's patent

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7362 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Lang's patent

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7363 From: Dave Lang Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Lang's patent

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7364 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Lang's patent

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7365 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Functions of the KiteGen stem

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7366 From: Dave Lang Date: 10/5/2012
Subject: Re: Lang's patent




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7317 From: Pierre Benhaiem Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains
Be quiet Rod, into the animation put a conversion system working a
generator, and some flats could come,not for the (beautiful)
animation,but concerning possible efficiency!

PierreB

--- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "roderickjosephread"
<rod.read@... power
left
working
way
the
slid
foresails,
upwind
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7318 From: Rod Read Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains
The obvious limits on efficiency are ...
  • soft kites only have a limited wind range, outside this the whole set of arches of trains will fail.
  • the top most kites have to go faster, depending on how many layers up you go, they may not be compatible with initial launching requirements.
ps. the nice looking kites are from surfplan.
I'll keep trying though

Rod Read

15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7319 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains


Roddy,

 

Could you add the conversion system (with crank for example like DaveS suggests) on the animation,considering several possibilities (arch as whole entity,multiple nodes...)? Some explicit animation can clarify some points where words are not enough.

 

PierreB



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7320 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains


A complete animation with conversion system should be useful not only for your specific design,even not only for arch,but perhaps for some kite systems.

 

PierreB


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7321 From: Bob Stuart Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Arch of trains
FWIW, the Hurricane fighter had a fabric aft fuselage and control surfaces, with a VNE of about 350 MPH.  With modern materials, we should be OK for all-fabric at that speed, especially at altitude.

Bob Stuart

On 2-Oct-12, at 6:00 AM, Rod Read wrote:


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7322 From: edoishi Date: 10/2/2012
Subject: Re: Sorting kite arches by wind-direction dependence (plus "Kite Dom
Attachments :
    Test Arch. Photo of a 4 sled arch.
    3 "medium" sized sleds on a gang line with 1 "pocket" sled ~100' above the others, also attached to the gang line.
    At one point all four sleds came down to the ground - and then auto-relaunched themselves as i sat back and snapped photos...
    Observations:
    1. The pilot kite often stayed aloft while the lower, larger sleds came down. This proved useful because it kept tension on the gang line.
    2. Even if one kite "went haywire" there was an aggregate stability in the arch as a whole
    3. Occasionally one kite's chaotic motion would disrupt the flight of its neighbor.

    At the end of the session i grabbed one end of the arch and became a moving anchor point.  I was able to affect the performance of the arch by walking towards the other anchor (thereby causing the whole arch to go higher in the sky (to long line it)) or by walking away from the other anchor to increase tension and encourage the kites to lift.

    Next up:
    Hanging payloads - such as the flip wings currently being made by Sam Mundell of Kitelab Ilwaco .
    Higher altitude flights to test if the arch collapses as it rises.
    Pumping the whole arch for reciprocating power





     
    Ed Sapir
    Util llc
      @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7323 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/2/2012
    Subject: Re: Arch of trains Re: Fabrics for AWES arrays
    That, BobS, is worth much.  Thanks. 

    Fabric is ever adapting to meet new challenges. 
    The threads of fabric are not limited to old fibers;.
    Fabric construction continues to evolve. 
    Smart fabrics are in an infancy. 
    Specialty fabrics are invented regularly. 
    Hybrid fabrics will yet amaze. 
    Computer-aided weaving continues to advance; customized forms will bring endurance, strength, reliability, effective play for purpose, etc. 
    Look to ciliated fabric kite coverings that generate electricity, light, messaging, ... 
    Look to at-will firmly and softening of advanced fabrics.  [ Forecast: Current rigidizable inflatable fabrics will look old-school as smart nano-rigidizing-softening specialty fabrics evolve.]
    At-will morphable fabrics!  Aerodynamic-sensing smart morphing fabrics?
    Thread and fabric have a rich new AWE era to serve. Tethered aviation and Kite era 3 (K3)  are just a couple of the players that are pulling fabrics to be more than they have ever been. 

    ...   
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7324 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/2/2012
    Subject: Re: Sorting kite arches by wind-direction dependence (plus "Kite Dom
    Very nice, Ed.  
    While into the next explorations, consider: 

    [ ]  Explore longer leaders for the units.  Short-line dynamics can eat into average lift obtained from each unit. 
    [ ]  Consider for photo study: making the arch load-path line more visible by line selection or by line-laundry tufts. 
    [ ]  Maybe hang a SpiralAirfoil  from Dan Parker, a turbine from Paul Gipe , a vertical rosary of flip-wing mini-flygens, a rope for play-Tarzan amusement, an arch-line crawler that travels from A1 to A2 to invite the amusement and travel industry into the model. 

    Consider two pilot kites. 
    Consider a mini pilot lifter train over a single pocket foil to gain aggregate stability just for the lifter pilot function. 

    Tension meter?
    Net average lift?
    Wind measures?
    Full specification?  Checklist for lines, knots, connecting parts?  Model safety inspection? 

    Easy to invite such play from my couch here. Thanks for exploring, Ed. 
    Best, 
    JoeF
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7325 From: Dave Lang Date: 10/2/2012
    Subject: Re: Arch of trains
    Bob,

    What would estimate the span of unsupported fabric to have been on the Hurricane?

    DaveL

    At 7:34 AM -0600 10/2/12, Bob Stuart wrote:
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7326 From: dave santos Date: 10/2/2012
    Subject: Most Efficient Vertical Lift in Most Probable Wind
    In a recent message, Dave Lang expressed a conviction that gravity force is a key design driver for AWES*. This matched my own thinking that the vertical-lift requirement is an essential differentiator between AWE and conventional wind tech perched on a pole.

    Our most-probable wind velocity range in early AWE is centered around 10m sec or less. Conventional aircraft construction does not create enough lift at this velocity to even maintain its own mass aloft. Such as AWES must sweep at all costs to stay up in the most-probable wind range. Hang gliders can stay aloft fairly well tethered in our most-probable wind, but they still devote too much lift to just staying up. Paragliders do far better in most-probable wind, developing full power, and only needing a yet smaller vertical-lift force to stay up.

    Makani correctly states that in principle their AWES can stop sweeping and fly in place in hurricane-force winds. A paraglider should be bagged away during such winds and would not be making power. But hurricane winds are about 1% probable in typical wind locations, so not much capacity factor is there. Makani could not long keep control in such riotous winds anyway.

    Rotors have the advantage of flywheel-mass gyroscopic-stability in turbulent conditions and can also bleed-off flywheel momentum into increased lift for slow landing. They don't quite attain the low wing-loading of soft kites with comparable low disc-loading.

    A low vertical-lift requirement is another way of saying "minimal mass aloft". Single-skin wings are the most efficient in achieving self vertical lift at low wind velocity, able to fly in as little as 2m sec and power up nicely in 5m sec. All other wings must sweep relentlessly to keep up in these winds. There is a sort of magic to slow flight with low wing-loading; Bernoulli flow has far less problem remaining usefully attached to the wing, which can be quite "ugly" like a KiteShip OL, or a tarp even.

    A quiver of soft wings, from single-skin NPW types to race parafoils, covers a huge range of flight velocities around our most-probable wind velocity, with the greatest lift-to-mass. This is the practical foundation of kite sports. We can use soft wings optimal in most-probable wind to host smaller faster rigid foils sweeping within tether constraints.

    A final"vertical-lift advantage of soft-kites in our most-probable winds is the option of passive stability, either by staked-out arches, or by the classic pilot-lifter function.


    * DaveL also was also thinking about other aspects of the gravity factor, such as tether dynamics.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7327 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/2/2012
    Subject: Re: Italy challenge: Alcoa smelter and KiteGen?
    Presentation by regional interests and by KiteGen continue to be made to Italy's top people:

    In the discussion is a vision concerning 200 units KiteGen stem 3 MW units.

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7328 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/2/2012
    Subject: Fabric-based tethered decelerators
    The study of fabric decelerators tethered to anchors (moving or static) provide matter that may affect AWES designing. 
    The drag and lift of a decelerators play to slow the movement of objects. Decelerators rarely have absolute-zero deflection from downstream center, and thus the kiting principle plays.   Invited is a placing on the table whatever of the fabric-based decelerator realm may advance AWE R&D. Aviation and spaceflight have been teasers of research in this area.  Drogues designed for more or less kiting deflection will be found. Decelerators for toy aviation, sport aviation, commercial aviation, military aviation, and spaceflight have been studied, used, compared, etc. Having lessons learned therein may affect various AWES operations from tasks to lifting wings. Storm by some AWES may be less shunned following full appreciation of these matters.  Later bring in advanced fabric to further opportunities for decelerators and kites (decelerators that tend to favor lift over drag, two decelerating partners).

    One start document: 

    In 1959: Here is a short version (longer 24 min version can be easily located at YouTube) of under two minutes
    that shows 1.57 Mach flight of fabric decelerator.

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7329 From: dave santos Date: 10/2/2012
    Subject: Speed Limit for Fabric Wings //Re: [AWES] Arch of trains
    The "span of unsupported fabic on the Hurricane" is around 20cm. This is not terrible news, just the practical requirement for "rip-stop" capability. We know fabrics should avoid whipping in the wind, even though they tolerate considerable abuse.

    The rip-stop principle is that any local tear stops at a nearby reinforcement loadpath. Besides airframes and modern rip-stop fabric, the principle apples to back-netting, an ancient kite method using plant fiber nets to back up a skin of leaves. Mothra tech also keeps unsupported fabric spans within workable tarp scales.

    One can take light kite fabric to fairly high speeds with enough ribs (some parafoils easily exceed 100mph). Somewhat thicker fabric at high tension will do what Bob proposes, provided it is properly supported, as DaveL suggests. 

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7330 From: dave santos Date: 10/2/2012
    Subject: Hawker Hurricane Fabric Framing Max Span- ~10cm ("fabric speed limit
    The Hurricane has even more intricate framing under its fabric than i thought-



    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7331 From: John Oyebanji Date: 10/2/2012
    Subject: Fw: 2nd International Conference Energy & Meteorology - Call for Abs
    Attachments :
       
       
      1433-ICEM-Logo-Dates-Banner.jpg
       
      Call for Abstracts
      2nd International Conference Energy & Meteorology (ICEM) – (Weather and Climate for the Energy Industry)
      25 – 28 June 2013, Météo-France International Conference  Centre, Toulouse, France
       
      The Scientific Committee of ICEM 2013 (http://www.icem2013.org) is calling for papers to be presented at this international conference building upon the success of the first event held in Australia in 2011 (http://icem2011.org). 
      The special theme for ICEM 2013 is: “Improving Weather and Climate Capabilities for Enhanced Energy Strategies”.
       
      The Committee is inviting papers to be submitted for the following conference sessions:

      1.       Weather and climate capabilities for energy strategies (ICEM 2013 Theme)

      2.       State-of-the-science and challenges in weather and climate for the energy sector

      3.       Combined meteorological and power monitoring systems

      4.       Wind and solar resource assessments

      5.       Wind and solar forecasting for energy operations

      6.       Hurricane, heat waves, drought forecasting for the energy sector

      7.       Climate change impact on energy resources, investments, demand and production

      8.       Bioenergy and Biofuels: meteorological issues

      9.       Energy demand modelling

      10.   Weather and climate data to inform energy finance and insurance

      11.   Weather and climate capabilities for grid storage solutions

      12.   Weather and climate capabilities for smart grid technologies

      13.   Data visualisation and web applications for energy and meteorology

      14.   Energy and meteorology outreach activities

      15.   Experiences in training energy and meteorology specialists

      16.   Major international projects/network in energy and meteorology

       

      The deadline for abstract submission is Thursday, 20th December 2012.

       

      A Pre-Conference seminar on “Uncertainty in meteorological data for the energy industry” will be held on Monday 24th June 2013.

       

      Abstracts submitted can be for oral or poster presentations (please indicate your preference when lodging your abstract).  The Scientific Committee reserves the right to accept or reject abstracts.  In addition, the Committee will endeavour to allocate accepted abstracts according to your oral/poster preference but this cannot be guaranteed.
       
      For additional information visit: http://www.icem2013.org
       
      Oral presentations will be 20 minutes in total – 16 minutes for presentation, 3 minutes for questions and 1 minute for change over of speakers.
       
      Posters will be displayed near the exhibition area for the duration of the conference.
       
      Prizes will be awarded for Best Oral presentation, Best Student Paper and Best Poster Presentation.
       
      Please note that it is a pre-requisite that the presenting author registers for a minimum of one day to ICEM 2013 for their abstract to be included in the conference programme.
       
      For any questions please contact the ICEM 2013 Manager on:
      Tel: +61 2 9431 8600
       
      Please circulate this information as widely as possible and encourage your colleagues to submit papers for the meeting.
       
      Best regards,
      The ICEM 2013 Scientific  Committee

       

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      John Adeoye Oyebanji; CEO, Hardensoft International President-protem, Airborne Wind Energy Industry Association - AWEIA International -----Original Message----- From: Alberto Troccoli Sender: bounce-1237706-466708@lists.iisd.ca Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 20:35:18 To: Energy-l Reply-To: Alberto Troccoli Subject: 2nd International Conference Energy & Meteorology - Call for Abstracts Call for Abstracts 2nd International Conference Energy & Meteorology (ICEM) – (Weather and Climate for the Energy Industry) 25 – 28 June 2013, Météo-France International Conference Centre, Toulouse, France The Scientific Committee of ICEM 2013 (http://www.icem2013.org) is calling for papers to be presented at this international conference building upon the success of the first event held in Australia in 2011 (http://icem2011.org). The special theme for ICEM 2013 is: “Improving Weather and Climate Capabilities for Enhanced Energy Strategies”. The Committee is inviting papers to be submitted for the following conference sessions: 1. Weather and climate capabilities for energy strategies (ICEM 2013 Theme) 2. State-of-the-science and challenges in weather and climate for the energy sector 3. Combined meteorological and power monitoring systems 4. Wind and solar resource assessments 5. Wind and solar forecasting for energy operations 6. Hurricane, heat waves, drought forecasting for the energy sector 7. Climate change impact on energy resources, investments, demand and production 8. Bioenergy and Biofuels: meteorological issues 9. Energy demand modelling 10. Weather and climate data to inform energy finance and insurance 11. Weather and climate capabilities for grid storage solutions 12. Weather and climate capabilities for smart grid technologies 13. Data visualisation and web applications for energy and meteorology 14. Energy and meteorology outreach activities 15. Experiences in training energy and meteorology specialists 16. Major international projects/network in energy and meteorology The deadline for abstract submission is Thursday, 20th December 2012. A Pre-Conference seminar on “Uncertainty in meteorological data for the energy industry” will be held on Monday 24th June 2013. Abstracts submitted can be for oral or poster presentations (please indicate your preference when lodging your abstract). The Scientific Committee reserves the right to accept or reject abstracts. In addition, the Committee will endeavour to allocate accepted abstracts according to your oral/poster preference but this cannot be guaranteed. For additional information visit: http://www.icem2013.org Oral presentations will be 20 minutes in total – 16 minutes for presentation, 3 minutes for questions and 1 minute for change over of speakers. Posters will be displayed near the exhibition area for the duration of the conference. Prizes will be awarded for Best Oral presentation, Best Student Paper and Best Poster Presentation. Please note that it is a pre-requisite that the presenting author registers for a minimum of one day to ICEM 2013 for their abstract to be included in the conference programme. For any questions please contact the ICEM 2013 Manager on: Email: info@icem2013.org Tel: +61 2 9431 8600 Please circulate this information as widely as possible and encourage your colleagues to submit papers for the meeting. Best regards, The ICEM 2013 Scientific Committee ___________________________________________________________________________________ - You are currently subscribed to energy-l as: hardensoftintl@yahoo.com - View energy-l Forum: https://lists.iisd.ca/read/?forum=energy-l - Membership options / Unsubscribe: https://lists.iisd.ca/read/?forum=energy-l ___________________________________________________________________________________ IISD is pleased to announce its newest project: Sustainable Energy Policy & Practice - A knowledge management project tracking international sustainable energy activities: http://energy-l.iisd.org/ We also invite you to subscribe: http://energy-l.iisd.org/about-the-energy-l-mailing-list/#subscribe_energy-l to ENERGY-L and post: http://energy-l.iisd.org/about-the-energy-l-mailing-list/#postings_energy-l your sustainable energy-related activities on this community listserve. - Subscribe / More Information: http://energy-l.iisd.org/about-the-energy-l-mailing-list/ - View ENERGY-L Forum: https://lists.iisd.ca/read/?forum=ENERGY-L ___________________________________________________________________________________ - Subscribe to all other IISD Reporting Services' free newsletters and lists for environment and sustainable development policy professionals at http://www.iisd.ca/email/subscribe.htm
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7332 From: dave santos Date: 10/3/2012
      Subject: The Continuum of Flutter, Flapping, and Whipping Effects
      A whip, an airframe, and a flag share a tendency, under the right conditions, to oscillate; to whip, flutter, or flap. These are all instances of the same fundamental physics. All AWES have aeroelastic modes with this intrinsic dynamics.

      Consider a whiplash as an 2D illustration of "traveling waves breaking on a shore". With enough energy the whip cracks, and there is a tiny explosion at its tip that even wears it away eventually. The same effect takes place at the trailing edge of a flag when you hear it cracking in a high wind. Airframes also flutter when they exceed VNE (velocity never exceed) and this can tear them apart. We see endless intermediate cases of structures between the three examples. This is what is meant by a "Continuum of Flutter, Flapping, and Whipping Effects". The basic parameters are mass, stiffness, and wind energy.

      A nice conclusion to draw is that there exist a more-or-less optimal AWES structural tunings anywhere within the continuum. The goal is to stay just below the yield-point of a material. It seems that the structural work done by wing material near its yield-point is fairly constant by weight across our wind spectrum. Capital and operational factors therefore seem to drive the choice of AWES wing along the continuum.
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7333 From: Bob Stuart Date: 10/3/2012
      Subject: Re: The Continuum of Flutter, Flapping, and Whipping Effects
      I ran into a nasty unanticipated flutter problem with a display this year.  Does anyone know how the fabric letters of a towed aerial banner avoid flapping?  Does the kingpost establish a growing, turbulent boundary layer?  I was very surprised to learn that helicopter rotors carry heavy ballast in their leading edges as the best way to prevent flutter.

      Bob Stuart

      On 3-Oct-12, at 10:56 AM, dave santos wrote:


      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7334 From: dave santos Date: 10/3/2012
      Subject: New Bird Poop Failure Mode (Fouled Electrical Windings and Heat Sink
      Some AWES designs involve E-VTOL aircraft tail-sitting for extended periods of calm. Especially offshore, where seabirds* range in large numners and perches are at a premium, the fouling of aircraft surfaces by bird poop will be a serious problem. Several failure modes have been identified, like clogging of pitot tubes, accelerated corrosion, and the destruction of laminar flow over high-performance propellor blades and wings**. Maintenance costs will be higher.

      The latest bad news is the probable effect of dried poop on exposed electric generator windings and heat sinks. The paste-like accretions will act as insulation and heat dams, impairing the overall cooling function and creating local hot spots. E-VTOL motor-cooling is a critical function with already slim margins.

      What preventatives would work? Noise-makers? Anti-perching treatments? Liquid-cooling jacketed motor-gens? Raptors? Maybe there is no perfect solution.

      Note that conventional offshore HAWTs are far less at risk of a critical failure by bird poop.


      * Only some sea species perch, but they are very common, like gulls and cormorants.

      ** Land birds seek out the aircaft cowling vents and the like for nesting sites. Mud daubers and other insects are another land hazard, clogging small holes like pitots and static pressure ports with mud, eggs, and silk. Manual covers that must be removed before flight are a common precaution.
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7335 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/3/2012
      Subject: Design of a Distributed Kite Power Control System
      U. Fechner, R. Schmehl: 
      "Design of a Distributed Kite Power Control System". 
      Accepted for 
      IEEE Multi-Conference on Systems and Control, Dubrovnik, Croatia, 
      3-5 October 2012.
      ==============================
      This post has no link to the paper. 
      Anyone?
      =====================

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7336 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/3/2012
      Subject: High level control and optimization of kite power systems
      U. Fechner, R. Schmehl: 
      "High level control and optimization of kite power systems". 
      8th PhD Seminar on Wind Energy in Europe, Zurich, Switzerland, 
      12-13 September 2012.      =
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7337 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/3/2012
      Subject: Simple surface success brings further project dream into gnuLAB3
      Advancing on the success of gnuLAB2: 
      Pere Casellas and associates moving on after success with gnuLAB2 into gnuLAB3

      gnuLAB3 :thumbup:    

      New dream project launched 

      gnuLAB3 "Barretina 2" 
      Rando-light paraglider


      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7338 From: christopher carlin Date: 10/3/2012
      Subject: Re: The Continuum of Flutter, Flapping, and Whipping Effects
      Flutter as defined in the airplane business is a catastrophically divergent aeroelastic oscillation. Grossly oversimplified flutter occurs because as a flexible surface deflects in an airstream the aerodynamic forces that develop due to the deflection tend to increase rather than reduce the deflection. When a design is discovered to have a flutter problem it's usually fixed by stiffening the structure, changing the mass distribution of the structure or changing the aerodynamic properties of the surface. Your helicopter leading edge ballast is an example of changing mass distribution. 

      Don't know the answer to the towed banner but I doubt it's a turbulent boundary layer. If I were doing it I think I'd put some drag devices at the end of the banner to put tension on it.

      Regards,

      Chris    
      On Oct 3, 2012, at 7:01 PM, Bob Stuart wrote:


      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7339 From: roderickjosephread Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Tensarity beam as a quill
      There was a research link on here lately which showed testing of kite wing.
      The cross section showed it was filled with tensarity beams, which ran the span of the wing.

      That makes sense (like the forces on a quill in a feather) if the wing is to be flown around a circling path.
      e.g.
      If I replaced these kites  with tensarity beam kites...,  and indeed even their tethering could be linked to the tensarity wires...

      Would it be a better design?
      Please note the video was designed with tidal flow use in mind.

      http://youtu.be/wIi8qc6QCRc 
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7340 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Splint or reinforcing or enhancing fluid beams
      A recent person has been trying to claim the invention of an ancient and common art. 
      He has circle R registered a business trade mark of "Tensairity" and has had a focus 
      on that ancient art. That focus has received some attention in the architectural world
      and some in kites and kite energy. There should be no reason to give all functional mechanical
      credit to the owner of the trade mark; but there is reason to credit him with his focus. 

      When caveman broke a leg, a fluid beam, and applied a compression element tightly to that fluid beam, 
      and then strategically wrapped vine about that compression element and the fluid leg beam, he realized
      that he had enhanced the fluid beam and gave the situation an effective anti-buckling result. And thus
      the birth of splint, reinforcing, or enhancing fluid beams.  The mechanical method was extended into
      helping the fluid beams of saplings in farms, of aiding weak vines plants to grow in gardens, of enhancing
      poles, bridges, booms, and cushions. The means fully rounded gave the pneumatic tire. To give this
      generic ancient means a tag of tensairity is to bolster the trade mark of Mauro Pedretti; he gain some
      patents with regard to these matters, but feel free to use the ancient arts of hugging compression beams
      and using tapes, cords, vines, cables to connect that compression beam over fluid beams and non-fluid 
      beams that separate the compression element some trussing distance from the tensioned wraps. 
      Mauro may have some detail claims to uphold and respect; we look carefully for those claims and wish
      to honor invention surely. However, let us at the same time honor the body of mechanics that 
      already surrounds us that has arrived from the ingenuity of those people of long past that bring us 
      opportunities. 








      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7341 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Re: Splint or reinforcing or enhancing fluid beams
      Your notes, links, etc. are invited over the arts of stiffening beams: 

      Beam stiffening

      Beam stiffening, splinting, enhancing, reinforcing, repairing, strengthening, bringing in anti-buckling, stopping bending, discouraging wrinkling. The beams may be fluid beams, rigid beams, hybrid beams. The beams may be of any shape, size, or material.  How humans stiffen beams is the focus of this folder.

      • Rigging superstructures about the base beam
      • Rigging interior substructures in the base beam
      • Splinting by appliqué
      • Splinting by ties in various patterns
      • Pressure from inside the base beam
      • Pressure from outside the base beam (partial or full surround)
      • Base-beam surface treatments
      • Base-beam chemical treatments
      • Base-beam work-hardening
      • Tensioning the base beam (pull the beam's ends)
      • Combinations of the above methods (two at a time, three at a time, etc., over part or all of the base beam) (Any two, any three, any four, any five, any six, etc. of the means in one application)
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7342 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Re: Splint or reinforcing or enhancing fluid beams
      Your good works on beam construction and stiffening will be integrated to files. 
      Beams used in AWES will vary in stiffening (degrees of flexibility). 
      Original beam construction plays. Connecting beams dances. Operating beams dynamically in AWES will have histories and incidents that will instruct further design and operation. Broken sticks and broken functions are teachers and teasers of inventive solutions. How will our beams be designed? Air beams, trussed beams, bar beams, hollow beams, ...  !   
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7343 From: Uwe Fechner Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Re: High level control and optimization of kite power systems
      Hello,

      you posted a wrong link to our paper.
      The correct link is:
      http://www.kitepower.eu/images/stories/publications/fechner12a.pdf

      Best regards:

      Uwe Fechner

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7344 From: Uwe Fechner Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Re: Design of a Distributed Kite Power Control System
      Hello,

      I think that I am allowed to publish this paper on our website, but probably I have to find
      out how (I might have to add a copyright notice, IEEE has the copyright).

      I will ask tomorrow.

      Best regards:

      Uwe Fechner



      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7345 From: dave santos Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Banner Flutter //Re: [AWES] The Continuum of Flutter, Flapping, and
      My dad was asked yesterday about banner flutter. He said the fabric letters were heavily hemmed and damped by the rope supporting lattice, and wear from flapping was not a problem at slow speeds, judged by the used letter set he bought. The drag of the whole banner tensions it against gross flapping. He was in the banner towing biz for only one day in the '80s, with Taylor Taylor, the owner of the hay and kite farm outside Austin where Mothra1 operates. 

      I was not there that day as Taylor snatched the barb-wire fence with airplane tow-hook on his first try to pick up the banner, and instead landed very short and heavy as if on an aircraft carrier by an arrestor wire. My dad said the music was amazing as the fence wire progressively pulled out the wire staples along the fence, sending them shooting like bullets. Badly shaken they missed the paid promotion event and posted the banner for sale later that day. Their mistake was overconfidence fooling with banners without proper training or practicing. They were otherwise careful airshow daredevils.

      Flutter in a rigid wing does not always end in divergence (increasing amplitude until wing failure), but its very dangerous. Not just helicopter blades, but hot gliders also have lead ballast mass in wing tips to damp the oscillation. We are just now discovering that ballast mass in fabric wingmills helps regulate them "flapping" as spring-mass cells (slowing and smoothing the firing frequency). This mass enhances long-sweep high-speed "penetration" across the kite window, much as water ballast in a hot glider adds useful inertia.

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7346 From: edoishi Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: AWE teaser
      Here is the first production preview of our documentary about airborne wind energy. Special thanks to Chase Honaker and UTIL for making and producing "AWE"

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9y8LAcs-dA&feature=plcp


      We are actively pursuing more content. Anyone interested in participating in any way (video clips, photos, text, ideas, or to do an interview, etc...) please contact me at on this forum or by email to utilmovement@gmail.com - subject: AWEM (airborne wind energy movie)

      The final "short" version (15 minutes) will be screened in Austin on November 10, 11, 17, and 18th. We hope to raise funds to produce a full length feature within the next year.

      Thanks to everyone who has already contributed material (Dave Santos, Rod Read, Coy Harris, Michael Breen, Ed Jensen, Jane Parker-Ambrose)

      --Ed Sapir
      Util
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7347 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Fwd: Wind Power India 2012 - conference registration open
      Will it know AWES?
      ===========================

      Having trouble viewing this email? Click here
      Wind Power India 2012
      Organized by
      IWTMA WISE GWEC

      India's largest and most prominent wind power show

      • Hosted by the leading national and international wind industry trade associations - IWTMA (Indian Wind Turbine Manufacturers Association), GWEC & WISE. Supported by the Ministry of New & Renewable Energy (MNRE)
      • 10000+ business visitors, 1000+ conference delegates, 200 exhibitors, 100 decision makers, 50 wind power industry CEOs.
      • India's largest wind power event - manufacturers, wind farm developers, support providers, regulators, and the financial community
      • Gain industry insights from over 70 global experts and network with 1000 delegates at the conference

      The first ever WindMade
      certified program in India.
      Event totally powered by
      wind energy

      From 28-30 November, 2012, Wind Power India 2012 will have over 200 exhibitors representing the entire Indian supply chain. Network with over 10,000 business visitors at the most important conference and exhibition in India.

      Wind Power India 2012 offers an exceptional opportunity to learn about the fast growing Indian wind power industry. With over 17,000 MW of installed wind power India is expected to grow to over 50,000 MW by 2020.

      For more information, contact Ravi Kumar @ +91-8939345345, email - ravik@windpowerindia.in

      Wind Power India 2012, Nov 28 - 30, Chennai, India;
      www.windpowerindia.in

      Platinum Sponsors
      Daimond Sponsor Gold Sponsors
      Supporters
      Sponsors View Floor Plan Register now Conference Program

      Forward email

      This email was sent to joefaust333@gmail.com by sarah.bryce@gwec.net |  

      GWEC | 80 Rue d'Arlon | Brussels | Belgium | 1040 | Belgium


      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7348 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Banner Flutter //Re: [AWES] The Continuum of Flutter, Flapping, and
      And not to forget favored deliberate aeroelastic flutter for electricity and music production in niche AWES: 

      And the realm of system depowering, kite-killing, control option ...
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7349 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Mine the hurricanes with WOW
      •        WOW        Wall of Wind.   Project start at FIU in 2005, but continues ...  


        With reversible physics,
        consider mining a hurricane's energy with WOW set as wind-energy collectors.  
        Even consider flying WOW. 

        Though the frequency of hurricane winds is seemingly too infrequent for practical energy mining, one might consider harvesting energy from hurricanes and storing the energy for use during the remaining of the year. Instead of flooding areas, considering putting the energy to work to fill a huge high lake. 
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7350 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Offshore AWES zones of operation
      Offshore AWES zones of operation

      MARITIME ZONES AND BOUNDARIES


      Types of AWES operations offshore: 
      • Fixed-position AWES
      • Roving production AWES
      • Traction shipping, boating, boarding, yachting, survey instruments, special-tasking (trash cleaning, fishing, observing, etc. ) 
      • Anchors are on shore, but flight system is over waters
      • FF-AWE operating over waters
      • AWES provided cableways over waters
      • ?
      • ?
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7351 From: John Oyebanji Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Re: Fwd: Wind Power India 2012 - conference registration open
      Good question, JoeF. My guess is 'Not likely'. I am not aware of strong AWE parties in India yet.
      John Adeoye Oyebanji;
      CEO, Hardensoft International
      President-protem, Airborne Wind Energy Industry Association - AWEIA International

      From: Joe Faust <joefaust333@gmail.com
      Sender: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:22:34 -0700
      To: <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [AWES] Fwd: Wind Power India 2012 - conference registration open

       

      Will it know AWES?

      ===========================

      Having trouble viewing this email? Click here
      Wind Power India 2012
      Organized by
      IWTMA WISE GWEC

      India's largest and most prominent wind power show

      • Hosted by the leading national and international wind industry trade associations - IWTMA (Indian Wind Turbine Manufacturers Association), GWEC & WISE. Supported by the Ministry of New & Renewable Energy (MNRE)
      • 10000+ business visitors, 1000+ conference delegates, 200 exhibitors, 100 decision makers, 50 wind power industry CEOs.
      • India's largest wind power event - manufacturers, wind farm developers, support providers, regulators, and the financial community
      • Gain industry insights from over 70 global experts and network with 1000 delegates at the conference

      The first ever WindMade
      certified program in India.
      Event totally powered by
      wind energy

      From 28-30 November, 2012, Wind Power India 2012 will have over 200 exhibitors representing the entire Indian supply chain. Network with over 10,000 business visitors at the most important conference and exhibition in India.

      Wind Power India 2012 offers an exceptional opportunity to learn about the fast growing Indian wind power industry. With over 17,000 MW of installed wind power India is expected to grow to over 50,000 MW by 2020.

      For more information, contact Ravi Kumar @ +91-8939345345, email - ravik@windpowerindia.in

      Wind Power India 2012, Nov 28 - 30, Chennai, India;
      www.windpowerindia.in

      Platinum Sponsors
      Daimond Sponsor Gold Sponsors
      Supporters
      Sponsors View Floor Plan Register now Conference Program

      Forward email

      This email was sent to joefaust333@gmail.com by sarah.bryce@gwec.net |  

      GWEC | 80 Rue d'Arlon | Brussels | Belgium | 1040 | Belgium


      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7352 From: dave santos Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Mine Hurricane Science (in reverse) //Re: [AWES] Mine the hurricanes
      Joe,

      The KiteLab study-concept of a Wall-of-Small-HAWTs is to go after common high-wind high up, not to tap rare storms.  Tapping hurricanes is like tapping lightning- The event is far too rare and too powerfully chaotic to be plausibly economic. On average one would wait many years before being simply knocked out by the sudden excess power.*

      The Wall-of-Wind (WoW) turbine array project relates to our recent question of whether a wall-of-small-turbines is a valid scaling basis for an AWES. This "Wall-of-Wind" is an instructive model, based on the general reversibility of energy transducing physics,

      daveS

      PS An upcoming topic is to discuss "Down Selecting"**, the engineering management requirement to pare down the long list of AWES ideas to only the most essential. A huge fog of brainstormed ideas now hide golden core principles that will endure. Its nearing the time to correctly choose, or lose.


      * Its maybe more sensible to imagine someday steering hurricanes to avoid direct hits on populations, using simple megascale sea-anchored wind dams as subtle control inputs.

      ** A military-procurement concept term Makani recently introduced, probably from landing its US Army contract. In Makani's case, its 2009 high-complexity AWES Down Selection pick probably was fatally premature.
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7353 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Free-flight kiting for delivery purposes
      PRECISION AERIAL DELIVERY SEMINAR
       RAM-AIR PARACHUTE DESIGN

       J.Stephen Lingard     1995

      Deliver personnel, materials, water, instruments, food, generators, messages, animals, seeds, machinery, huts, homes, AWES units, lines, bags, fuel, aircraft, technicians, self-contained Internet-communicating computers, batteries, medicine, hose, blankets, plants, ...

      Use aloft free-flight kiting system's GPS-involved control units to guide the gliding kites to widespread target points highly individualized. 
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7354 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Down selection

      down selection, down selecting

      • Engineering management
        • Engineering decision process that selects from options in order to move into builds  AWES7352

        • "the engineering management requirement to pare down the long list of AWES ideas to only the most essential. A huge fog of brainstormed ideas now hide golden core principles that will endure. It is nearing the time to correctly choose, or lose."   DaveS         4 Oct 2012  
            
        • Without down selecting there may be a tendency to have "paralysis by analysis" where attention and investment is not focused into a build-and-serve actuality. Holding out for "best" will not practically serve practical needs.  JpF          4 Oct 2012 

        • Reduction in the number of contractors or sub-contractors working on a project, as it moves from one phase to another, in accordance with the criteria established usually in the request for proposal (RFP) documents. 

        • http://grouper.ieee.org/groups/1901/P1901_Work_Flow.pdf
        •  
      • Open markets may tend to pare offerings; a down selecting occurs by purchase decisions; products not purchase will probably stop being produced.
      The spread teams in the present AWE community have exercised local down selecting.  In open forum there has been fuzzy down selection occurring among many method options.   Some teams are midway in a process of selecting for builds. Some teams stay hidden from community view; little is known about what is hidden! Speculation about what Siemens, Honeywell, Vestas, etc. might be doing is just that: speculation.  Doug Selsam repeated that he has not seen mentioned methods that he has notes about; and maybe secretly he has selected down to some builds that are not announced!  The community mechanisms to select among options is something that invites a leadership that might reside in some of us (I easily recognize that such role is outside of my personal capability; I am thoroughly on the unsettling side of things, a kid at his first time in a big supermarket candy shoppe).     I have had the thought that one day I will wake up to the news and find Vestas disclosing a working huge  AWES  ready for purchase by customers throughout the globe, even though they have not responded directly to any of my rubs during the years.     So, if there are leaders for down selection among AWE methods, introduce yourself and process.   
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7355 From: Rod Read Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Re: New Bird Poop Failure Mode (Fouled Electrical Windings and Heat

      Never mind bird poo

      The effects of contamination in kites are worth considering.
      Does a ram air collect a lot of rain?

      A sealed wing has advantages
      Does anyone know...
      With sealed beam or tube design optimised to achieve neutral buoyancy, by mixing material strength, density, porosity, content of water and air ...
      How does a tensarity beam or sealed coiled tube behave as it submerges?
      I'm guessing really well...Hose certainly works for fluid energy transfer and tension transmission with biaxial winding walls.

      So

      Can we design with other bird parts in mind

      Can I alter my design
      Straight (bone like) tethers from the driven to the driving wheel set, (think sealed nylon pipe)
      Are encircled by winding coils of muscle and tendon (hose for tethers)
      The inside ring of the driving set, is like a scooped circular wishbone.. (think of a steel measuring tape loop, fluted)

      A smooth skin, (laminated sail) over and inside the bone like shaft.


      Axially Outward from the driven wheel,  a wing socket (hinging / cuff) and cuff rotors, hinge steering actuators for retracting (Dipping sail), flapping (pumping sail) and trimming.

       (less likely so far but, The wing could be of several  hinged quills like crow wingtips

      The wing bones could be a profiled tensairity beam,

      Encased in skin (reinforced &  profiled sail nylon sandwiches)

      The tendons which ran out on bone can sprout kite tethers (pipe or line) which link into the skin in reinforced patches and even tied to the reinforcement inside the skin sandwich., with the reinforcement line running back to the wing bone.

      I think puffin, penguin or even seal and whale wings may be the ideal easy tide power grabbers...

      Any favourite bird parts yourself?


      Rod Read

      http://kitepowercoop.org

      got garage space sorted at last.



      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7356 From: Rod Read Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Re: New Bird Poop Failure Mode (Fouled Electrical Windings and Heat
      Oh I'm way behind, sorry Joe just read your post on beam design.


      Rod Read

      15a Aiginis
      Isle of Lewis
      HS2 0PB

      07899057227
      01851 870878




      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7357 From: dave santos Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: Rain and Soft Kites //Re: [AWES] New Bird Poop Failure Mode
      Rod,

      Rain has a minor effect on soft kite flight, since modern kite fabric is nonabsorbent. It does not collect in parafoils, since unsealed seams leak faster than the intake ever ingests rain. Also, modern soft kites often have sand drains, which will also drain water,

      daveS

      PS Please be sure to change subject lines when changing subject.

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7358 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/4/2012
      Subject: GPADS // Re: Free-flight kiting for delivery purposes
      The Guided Parafoil Airborne Delivery System program
      William K. wailes2 
      Pioneer Aerospace Corporation, Melbourne, Florida 
      and 
      Nancy E. Harrington 
      U.S. Army Natick RD &E Center, Natick, Massachusetts

      (thanks to DaveS for the link)

      Discussion started from email: 
      DaveS quoted from article with size in focus: 
      "There is nothing in the behavior of  the 7,350 ft2 wing 
      which indicates that a size limit is being  approached"
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7359 From: Pierre Benhaiem Date: 10/5/2012
      Subject: Lang's patent

      Extract of Massimo's post "decollo automatico:ci eravamo posti l'obiettivo di provare 7 metodi differenti, 4 quelli più artistici e virtuosi direi che sono falliti o non sono adatti al sito di Sommariva.Il metodo con il pallone secondo il brillante brevetto di Dave Lang, purtroppo non ci funziona abbastanza bene e costa troppo caro in termini di elio.i brandeggi e la catapulta fanno un buon lavoro ma anche raggiungendo agevolmente 60 metri di altezza a Sommariva non bastano nella maggioranza dei casi per continuare il volo.Il decollo naturale funziona ma è evento rarissimo sul sito attuale, e di solito decolla quando stiamo facendo altro e non vorremmo che decollasse."

      Have you a reference of the cited Lang's patent?

      PierreB

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7360 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/5/2012
      Subject: Re: Lang's patent
      Substantial search: no result yet for the "Lang" patent. 
      Maybe Massimo or Lang will report.
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7361 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 10/5/2012
      Subject: Re: Lang's patent
      Attachments :

        This Lang's patent comes from energykitesystems'datas,but is it the patent to which Massimo refers?

         

        PierreB




          @@attachment@@
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7362 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/5/2012
        Subject: Re: Lang's patent
        The password to read the PDF document is
        awe

        in lowercase.
        I do not have any confirmation if such document is the concern of Massimo.

        JoeF

        --
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7363 From: Dave Lang Date: 10/5/2012
        Subject: Re: Lang's patent
        I am not sure what is being referred to here?

        DaveL

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7364 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/5/2012
        Subject: Re: Lang's patent
        1. Consider joining or reading messages in Italian fraternity group: 

        2. KiteGen wrestles with near-ground low-wind wing-launching strategies. They are looking at about 7 or 8 schemes. During the discussion it seems to me they bring in Dave Lang when talking about using a helium balloon launching method, not sure.   

        [[ POSSIBLE OFF-TOPIC FUNNIES:   3. Dave Lang, is that your patent on lighting of  "Universal croquet wicket lighting unit " ?   If so, I had the idea that maybe KiteGen would use a giant croquet wicket frame to lift up the wing to windy altitude; and the lighting unit you (are you "Dell" middle name?) may have patented.   The light would let them see the wing is at altitude.    KiteGen is considering a Wright Brothers catapult drop-mass scheme, so why not a huge croquet wicket with a light!]]

        Still a mystery of Masssimo's reference to a Lang patent (or provisional patent document), 

        JoeF
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7365 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/5/2012
        Subject: Functions of the KiteGen stem
        Open for discussing the "seven" functions of the KiteGen stem. 
        Starter document just posted: 
        What are the functions?  What parts play in the functions?   How is experience, so far on each of the functions?  
        ???

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 7366 From: Dave Lang Date: 10/5/2012
        Subject: Re: Lang's patent
        I plead guilty as charged.
        DaveL