Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 21600 to 21649 Page 325 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21600 From: dave santos Date: 1/2/2017
Subject: Re: Circa 1979. Erich Herter.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21601 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/2/2017
Subject: Drachen

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21602 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/2/2017
Subject: Re: Minesto news

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21603 From: dave santos Date: 1/3/2017
Subject: Re: Minesto news

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21604 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/3/2017
Subject: Re: Drachen

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21605 From: dave santos Date: 1/4/2017
Subject: Re: Drachen

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21606 From: dave santos Date: 1/4/2017
Subject: Hawaii Five-O (Makani M600 Investigation)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21607 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 1/4/2017
Subject: My Airborne Rotor (MAR)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21608 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/4/2017
Subject: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21609 From: dave santos Date: 1/4/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21610 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/4/2017
Subject: Re: Minesto news

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21611 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/4/2017
Subject: Re: Forum headline images

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21612 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/5/2017
Subject: Re: Forum headline images

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21613 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 1/5/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21614 From: dave santos Date: 1/5/2017
Subject: Re: Forum headline images

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21615 From: dave santos Date: 1/5/2017
Subject: Re: Forum headline images

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21616 From: dave santos Date: 1/5/2017
Subject: Re: Minesto news

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21617 From: benhaiemp Date: 1/5/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21618 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/5/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21619 From: dave santos Date: 1/5/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21620 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/5/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21621 From: dave santos Date: 1/5/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21622 From: benhaiemp Date: 1/6/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21623 From: dave santos Date: 1/6/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21624 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2017
Subject: Tapping Deep Ocean Current Shear by opposed Paravanes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21625 From: benhaiemp Date: 1/7/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21626 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21627 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2017
Subject: What really causes Wind? What to do about it? (update)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21628 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21629 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21630 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: A Brief History of AWEIA, and the present challenge in AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21631 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21632 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21633 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21634 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21635 From: benhaiemp Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21636 From: benhaiemp Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21637 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21638 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21639 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/8/2017
Subject: Skymill Energy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21640 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/9/2017
Subject: Tethering, bridling, and anchoring challenges from ship launching

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21641 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/9/2017
Subject: Re: Forum headline images

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21642 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/9/2017
Subject: Re: Skymill Energy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21643 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/9/2017
Subject: Extruded drum surface for storage of tether

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21644 From: dave santos Date: 1/9/2017
Subject: Re: Forum headline images

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21645 From: dave santos Date: 1/9/2017
Subject: Re: Extruded drum surface for storage of tether

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21646 From: dave santos Date: 1/10/2017
Subject: Groundgen Power-Kites as Baseline AWES Units

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21647 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/10/2017
Subject: Re: Extruded drum surface for storage of tether

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21648 From: dave santos Date: 1/10/2017
Subject: Re: Extruded drum surface for storage of tether

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21649 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/10/2017
Subject: Tether termination systems and methods




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21600 From: dave santos Date: 1/2/2017
Subject: Re: Circa 1979. Erich Herter.
This is a remarkably advanced kiteplane concept from 1979. In particular, Erich provided extra vertical surface forward, like a good kite needs for fast turning, or flying the edge of the kite window with a span-loaded bridle.

How nice if Erich is still alive and interested in AWE. There could be long-hidden AWE masters who never stopped developing their comprehension, and have something vital yet to reveal.


On Monday, January 2, 2017 11:30 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  


Ground tethered airborne wind power generator -  has propeller and vertical wing with orthogonal lift fins at front and rear  


Page bookmarkDE2923503 (A1)  -  Ground tethered airborne wind power generator -  has propeller and vertical wing with orthogonal lift fins at front and rear
Inventor(s):HERTER ERICH +
Applicant(s):HERTER ERICH +
Classification:
- international:F03D1/04F03D11/04(IPC1-7): F03D1/00
- cooperative:
Application number:DE19792923503 19790609 
Priority number(s):DE19792923503 19790609



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21601 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/2/2017
Subject: Drachen

Drachen

===================================================

Some energy converters performing tasks aloft are demonstrated. 

Some AWE workers will tap this video. 


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21602 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/2/2017
Subject: Re: Minesto news
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21603 From: dave santos Date: 1/3/2017
Subject: Re: Minesto news
Evident in recent depictions, Minesto seems to have increased relative turbine diameter greatly and moved it to the tail position. Unexplained is why there is a ducted turbine still visible in the nose.

We are also seeing Minesto's manufacturing supply chain develop in modern distributed fashion. It seems natural that water-kite energy is evolving first into industrial practice, just as seafaring, including submarines, emerged before aviation, due to the lower technological barrier of flying underwater.


On Monday, January 2, 2017 7:57 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21604 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/3/2017
Subject: Re: Drachen
Sonja Graichen
====================
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21605 From: dave santos Date: 1/4/2017
Subject: Re: Drachen
In the strict scientific sense, Sonja's dreamy kinetic art kites are AWES that depend on the same principles as more mundane energy kites. In particular, her kites are superbly adapted to most-probable-wind-velocity at the kite festivals where they fly, and she resorts to pilot-lifter design features, as needed, to extend low-wind capability.  Her work confirms that AWES rotor count can vary greatly, but also reflects the now-familiar scaling limit to "sticky" sparred AWES in common wind. The final kite-scaling truth is so simple and obvious, its remarkable that so many AWES developers missed it. 

Take the scale spectrum of the Delta Kite, from miniature to Hang Glider size, and a characteristic wind velocity range is apparent all along the scale. Using the best materials, Delta's of 1-3m WS fly best in ordinary wind velocities. 4-6m WS deltas start to falter in common wind if they are not built light, and they break spars most often. HGs are yet larger, so they require faster (apparent wind) velocity than most-common-wind-velocity, and have strict G-force limits. Weakly flying kites and kiteplanes have little excess energy to tap.

The governing AWES scaling law seems to be that most-probable-wind-velocity is a constant that does not scale with kite square-cube-mass (altitude wind gradient helps, just not enough). The unavoidable consequence is that rigid-sparred/winged/rotored kites hardly scale for AWES use; yet many "leading" developers have down-selected such airframes on the mistaken presumption of scalability. Prominent concepts most critically impacted by this AWES scaling limit are Makani, Ampyx, Sky WIndPower, KiteMill, and WindLift. Sonja's kinetic-art AWES, on the other hand, stay wisely within the natural scale boundaries of classic sticky kites.




On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 8:56 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Sonja Graichen
====================


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21606 From: dave santos Date: 1/4/2017
Subject: Hawaii Five-O (Makani M600 Investigation)
Attachments :
    KiteShip first tasked me in 2007 with technically assessing Makani, near Kiteship's base at North Sails old loft on Alameda Island, including a Mexican-ninja-style foray into the war-room of their converted military HQ. Despite the most opaque NDA stealth-venture cloaking, it was always possible to locate their secret test-fields (by satellite analysis) and confirm unreported crashes (from leaked clues). Under such scutiny, Makani has never seemed more than an over hyped investment to lure Google into a golden buy-out, as notorious SquidLabs' business model. All of AWE has suffered under this hype-umbrella.

    Fast-Forward to 2017: Makani is long overdue to test-fly its M600 AWES in Hawaii. There is no official news about what the delay is, but the probable cause is that the M600 was a naive overreach of aviation safety and practical scaling-limits. Contact queries in recent months to Makani's website went unanswered. Two elite federal officials (Cathy Zoi and Fort Felker), who skipped out of government to join Makani, have disappeared from public contact. The only evident sign-of-life is a tiny bit of updated Makani photo content on GoogleX's website (link below).

    My favorite Mexican uncle, Tio Roel, on the Hawaii Big Island, has agreed to investigate. "Roy" is an avid photographer-astronomer retired near Parker Ranch, where Makani secured test-site permission. Mexicans cowboys were in the first wave of American-Hawaiian colonization, who center around Parker Ranch to this day. If needed, Roy can peer down from Mauna Loa (home of the world's greatest telescope collection) with the telephoto capability required to monitor test developments. Roy is already starting ask around Waimea, to see if anyone knows anything.


    Inline image

      @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21607 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 1/4/2017
    Subject: My Airborne Rotor (MAR)

    All,


    Building an Airborne Wind Energy System is hard. That is one of the reasons why many concepts are being discussed but few are actually being tested. 


    Many designs require an airborne rotor (e.g. HAWT Kite with Loop Belt 

    or Rotating reeeling)


    ...hence I thought you might like that you can now build a 300W airborne rotor for under 300USD in less than a day!


    Please check out the design rationale, the step by step instructions, Bill of Material and Design files and let me know what you think!


    You can see the rotor in action here: Setting up and launch of the 250W OTS Airborne Wind Energy System - please go ahead and build one for your own experiments and let me know what you found. Thank you!


    /cb



    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21608 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/4/2017
    Subject: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    ===============================================

    Here is an easy one: 

    Flying Superturbine(R) Explained by Doug Selsam


    ================================


    Here are some hard ones: 


    MegaScale AWES index 


    ================================

    Here are some plans for more very easy ones: 

    To confirm: Just build, fly, and define working purpose of the system clearly. ]


    World's largest kite plan archive - Kite Plan Base (KPB)

    ===================================

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21609 From: dave santos Date: 1/4/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    Congratulations to Christof for his progress.

    Torque-based AWES is being shown easy, if tricky, at small scale. Scaling up is hard, no matter what architecture. The general prediction of scaling laws is that every concept becomes progressively difficult. In a race to solve climate risks, the winning AWES concept  will tend to be the biggest possible, before becoming too difficult to scale further. 

    Any bigger than toy scale, and public liability rears up. All large AWES will present dangers, but a tensegrity driveshaft stores some flywheel energy, so getting swept-up or whacked in the head by a scaled-up spar will involve more than just the local mass moving at moderate speed.

    A rough count is nearly a dozen small AWES plans now exist online. Some patents are so detailed so as to amount to plans. kPower favors simple layout "sail-plans" and "sail-patterns", like sailboats are traditionally rigged from. At the other extreme, M600 plans are surely huge file-sets, hard to apply. Hurray for any truly powerful AWES basis that is easy enough for us all.



    On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 2:37 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    ===============================================
    Here is an easy one: 

    ================================

    Here are some hard ones: 


    ================================
    Here are some plans for more very easy ones: 
    To confirm: Just build, fly, and define working purpose of the system clearly. ]

    ===================================


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21610 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/4/2017
    Subject: Re: Minesto news
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21611 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/4/2017
    Subject: Re: Forum headline images
    http://www.energykitesystems.net/ForumHeadlineImages/AdventureMyrtle1866.jpg

     

    Adventure of a Kite by Harriet Myrtle

    ======================================================

    Keen read will notes how the flight of the "Kite" effected many different kinds of results . 

    One may also study the breakaway system and how even that kite system did works changing the world. 

    Notice the graphic produced circa 1866 featured the windmill and the kite system. Notice how the boys are seemingly into the kite system while the girls looked over at boys where the kite system was converting some of the wind's energy to work a boy's arm. 



    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21612 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/5/2017
    Subject: Re: Forum headline images
    Looking more closely at the engraving in the Myrtle book, one might interpret what appears to be golf club and a ball.  And a dog running into the wind.  The girls are holding tight to their bonnets as they face the wind. There appears to be a mustached adult overlooking the boys' kiting.   To me, I am favoring the golf club and ball being left in the dirt as a means for the artist to tell us that the kiting was being preferred to other play. 

    "History of Golf since 1497. Golf as we know it today originated from a game played on the eastern coast of Scotland in the Kingdom of Fife during the 15th century. Players would hit a pebble around a natural course of sand dunes, rabbit runs and tracks using a stick or primitive club"  Source for quote.
     
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21613 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 1/5/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    Thank you Joe. When I talk about Airborne Wind Energy the working purpose of the system is always defined as: generating electric energy

    I know that this is a much more narrow goal than what you have in mind - hence let me rephrase my first sentence:

    "Building an Airborne Wind Energy System that can at least generate 100W electric power for 100 minutes at 100 ft is hard" :)

    hope that clarifies
    /cb

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21614 From: dave santos Date: 1/5/2017
    Subject: Re: Forum headline images
    Modern Formal Analysis in science began with formal-analysis in Art History (Vasari, Ruskin, etc.), so in our time, its a homecoming to formally analyse an old children's kite story as follows-

    "The Adventure of a Kite" is perhaps the most perfect kite introduction ever. Author, Mrs Myrtle, a proto- quasi- Mary Poppins, deftly touches on the profoundest kite memes with keen expert detail and clarity a child can grasp. Seen this deeply, most every kite flight is this sort of "merry adventure" of the spirit (nevermind AWE venture-capitalist kitemares). Ideal kite wind and site conditions are specified. The stored kite begins in a ground-state tangle, but its topological stability allows the kite wizard to sort it out. High altitude capability is featured metrically, as a multiple of a "high tree" (ad hoc Planck Natural Unit). As echoed by Maori tradition (and Lord Byron and Mary Shelly), a sort of ritual kite-chant or song is employed. Static tension, wind-field turbulence, load friction, and quantum-loop instability phases are differentiated as the wind builds, and kite-power mounts exponentially. The kite line burns the hand (just as Wubbo's little hand was once burned, setting him toward AWE), and irresistible traction-forces develop. Breakaway occurs mid-tether, at the center-node of the fundamental harmonic. The loose kite leads its pupils forward and ends up in the "tallest tree" (qua Tree-of-Life, an axis-mundi), that spills a family of rooks (raven-crow) to a good-witch at the base. These messengers of the spirit-world abide with the children, under their care, to return to the tree-of-life. The kite itself is only slightly damaged, easily repaired, and lives on. Its a Dutch Pear-Top kite, such as Peter Lynn owns, as the oldest surviving kite. Yea, it could even be the very kite in this story, for all we know. We are all on the grand adventure of a kite, aka Campbell's Hero's Journey, with the kite and friends as our teachers and guides.
    ------------
    * An illustration no less remarkable than the text; aptly depicting a Dutch (or East Britain) kite and windmill. The genderization JoeF notes ultimately archetypes the female-element in wise Goddess role. 

    Illustration

    The Adventure of a Kite.

    Drop Cap

    ne evening, when Mary, her mamma, and Willie had all taken their seats near the window, and the story was about to begin, Mary reminded her mamma of a merry adventure that she had mentioned as having happened when she and her brother and Master White went out to fly their "new Kite."
    "Do, mamma, tell us about that," said Mary.[8]
    Her mamma said she would, and after thinking for a few minutes, to recollect all about it, she began.
    One fine, breezy morning in October, Master White came suddenly to our house, with his eyes looking so bright, and his cheeks so red from running in the fresh air, and quite out of breath besides.
    "What is the matter, James?" we all cried out. "What a red face you've got!"
    "Have I?" said he; "my nose is so cold! I ran here as fast as I could, there is such a beautiful breeze for a Kite. Come, both[9] of you, and let us fly the Kite high up in the blue sky; come as many of you as can, and this day you shall see what a Kite can do!"
    Up we all jumped, the Kite was brought down, and away we all started into the meadows, running nearly all the way, and James White never ceasing to talk of the wonderful things he intended the Kite should this day perform.
    We arrived in a large, grassy meadow, sloping down to a low hedge. Beyond the hedge was a very large field, and beyond that field another large field, which[10] had some high trees at the farthest end. In the tops of these trees was a rookery; we knew these trees very well, because we often used to walk that way, partly because it was a nice walk, and partly because an old woman, whom we were all very fond of, kept an apple and gingerbread-nut stall under the largest tree. However, as I said before, these trees were a long way offโ€”two whole fields offโ€”more, two whole fields and all the meadow. At the top of the meadow, near where we stood, there was also a high tree, and at the foot of this we laid down the Kite.[11]
    "O, James," said my brother, "do you think we shall be able to make the Kite fly as high as the tree we are under?"
    "As high!" said James White, "six times as high, at the very least."
    He now carefully unfolded the tail from the body of the Kite, being very particular to undo all the tangles near the tassel, which made quite a bunch; but he brought it out perfectly. One end of the ball of twine was now attached to the body of the Kite. He then raised it up with the right hand, holding out the tail in three great festoons with the left,[12] and in this way walked to and fro very uprightly and with a stately air, and turning his head in various quarters, to observe the direction of the wind. Suddenly he dropped the tail upon the ground, and lifting up the Kite with his right hand in the air, as high as he possibly could, off he ran down the meadow slope as fast as his legs could carry him, shouting all the way, "Up, up, up! rise, rise, rise! fly, Kite, in the air!" He finished by throwing the Kite up, continuing to run with the string in his hand, allowing it to slip through his fingers as the Kite[13] rose. The breeze caught the Kite, and up it went in fine style. It continued to rise rapidly, and we ran to and fro underneath, shouting all the time, "O, well done, James White, and well done, Kite!"
    By the excellent management of James, the Kite rose and rose, till we all said, "O, how high! how wonderful!" And then James White said he was satisfied.
    Now you are all to recollect that this Kite was very large. In the story I told you in summer, where the making of this Kite was described, you remember that it was said to be as tall as James[14] White himself, and of course very much broader. The consequence was, that this Kite was extremely strong. So we all sat down on the grass to hold the string, which James White said was necessary, as the Kite struggled and pulled so hard. It was now up quite as high as the string would allow it to go. But the wind seemed to be increasing, and James White said he began to be rather afraid that he must draw the Kite downwards, for fear it should have a quarrel with the wind up in the clouds, and then some accident might happen. We accordingly began to draw down the Kite[15] slowly, winding the string upon the stick as it gradually descended. But notwithstanding all this care, an accident did happen after all.
    Before the Kite was half-way down, a strong wind suddenly caught it sideways, and the Kite made a long sweep downwards, like a swallow, rising up again at some distance, swinging its tail about in a most alarming manner. "Bless my heart!" said James White.
    Up we all jumped from the grass. "Help me to hold her!" cried James White; "how she struggles!" Again came the wind, again the Kite made a sweep down[16] and rose up again, as if indignantโ€”then shook her tail and wings as if threatening to do some mischiefโ€”then made a quick motion to the right and a dance to the leftโ€”then made a very graceful courtesy deep down, as though she was very politely saluting the wind, but suddenly rose up with a sharp jerk, as though she had spitefully altered her mindโ€”and the next moment made a dart first to the right and then to the left, and continued to do this till James White said he was sure something must happen.
    We all held the string as fast as we could, and tried to pull down[17] the Kite; but it was impossible, for instead of bringing her down, we were all three dragged along down the meadow slope, crying out, "Somebody come and help us! somebody come and help us!" But nobody else was near. In this manner the Kite was pulling us along, the string cutting our hands, and running through our fingers like fire, till at last I was obliged to let go, and being unable to get out of the way, was knocked down, and being also unable to roll myself out of the way, my brother fell over me. James White was thus left alone with the Kite, and was dragged[18] struggling and hallooing down the meadow slope.
    He was determined, however, not to let go; nothing could make him loose the string; he was determined not to be conquered; but before he had got to the bottom of the slope, the string of the Kite broke about half-way down, and up sprang the Kite again towards the sky, taking its course over the meadow towards the great field beyond. We all three followed of course, as fast as we could, staring up, and panting, and not knowing what to do. The Kite continued to fly in rather an irregular manner over the[19] first great field. It then made a pitch downwards, and several tosses upwards, and flew straight over the second great field, in the direction of the high trees. "O, those trees!" cried James White, "it is flying towards the trees!"
    He was right, the Kite did fly directly towards the trees, as James White said it would. Just as it arrived nearly over those trees, it made a great pitch downwards, right into the top of the largest tree, and completely knocked over one of the rooks' nests that was built there. We came running up as soon as we could, and then we saw that it was the very tree, at[20] the foot of which was the stall of our dear old woman, who sold apples and gingerbread-nuts.
    "Make haste!" cried she;โ€”"the Kite is safe among the boughs; I can see its long tail hanging down. But do look here! the Kite has made us a present of five young rooks; two are fluttering among the golden pippins, and three are hopping and gaping among the gingerbread-nuts."
    James White scarcely looked at the rooks; he said he had more important business to attend to. He took off his jacket, and immediately began to climb up the[21] tree. In less than twenty minutes he succeeded in bringing down the Kite, with only two small rents in its left shoulder, and the loss of one wing, all of which he said he could easily repair.
    We took the five young rooks home with us, and had great amusement in rearing and feeding them, and as soon as they were old enough, we took them out into their native fields, and let them fly directly under the tree where they were born.



    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21615 From: dave santos Date: 1/5/2017
    Subject: Re: Forum headline images
    Notes-

    -2nd fundamental harmonic has a center-node, where line-break is perhaps more likely to concentrate
    -Tow-launch with pay-out described (rich kite tech detail for small kids)
    -Cloud-suck effect suggested
    -Author bio:





    On Thursday, January 5, 2017 11:35 AM, "dave santos santos137@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Modern Formal Analysis in science began with formal-analysis in Art History (Vasari, Ruskin, etc.), so in our time, its a homecoming to formally analyse an old children's kite story as follows-

    "The Adventure of a Kite" is perhaps the most perfect kite introduction ever. Author, Mrs Myrtle, a proto- quasi- Mary Poppins, deftly touches on the profoundest kite memes with keen expert detail and clarity a child can grasp. Seen this deeply, most every kite flight is this sort of "merry adventure" of the spirit (nevermind AWE venture-capitalist kitemares). Ideal kite wind and site conditions are specified. The stored kite begins in a ground-state tangle, but its topological stability allows the kite wizard to sort it out. High altitude capability is featured metrically, as a multiple of a "high tree" (ad hoc Planck Natural Unit). As echoed by Maori tradition (and Lord Byron and Mary Shelly), a sort of ritual kite-chant or song is employed. Static tension, wind-field turbulence, load friction, and quantum-loop instability phases are differentiated as the wind builds, and kite-power mounts exponentially. The kite line burns the hand (just as Wubbo's little hand was once burned, setting him toward AWE), and irresistible traction-forces develop. Breakaway occurs mid-tether, at the center-node of the fundamental harmonic. The loose kite leads its pupils forward and ends up in the "tallest tree" (qua Tree-of-Life, an axis-mundi), that spills a family of rooks (raven-crow) to a good-witch at the base. These messengers of the spirit-world abide with the children, under their care, to return to the tree-of-life. The kite itself is only slightly damaged, easily repaired, and lives on. Its a Dutch Pear-Top kite, such as Peter Lynn owns, as the oldest surviving kite. Yea, it could even be the very kite in this story, for all we know. We are all on the grand adventure of a kite, aka Campbell's Hero's Journey, with the kite and friends as our teachers and guides.
    ------------
    * An illustration no less remarkable than the text; aptly depicting a Dutch (or East Britain) kite and windmill. The genderization JoeF notes ultimately archetypes the female-element in wise Goddess role. 

    Illustration

    The Adventure of a Kite.

    Drop Cap

    ne evening, when Mary, her mamma, and Willie had all taken their seats near the window, and the story was about to begin, Mary reminded her mamma of a merry adventure that she had mentioned as having happened when she and her brother and Master White went out to fly their "new Kite."
    "Do, mamma, tell us about that," said Mary.[8]
    Her mamma said she would, and after thinking for a few minutes, to recollect all about it, she began.
    One fine, breezy morning in October, Master White came suddenly to our house, with his eyes looking so bright, and his cheeks so red from running in the fresh air, and quite out of breath besides.
    "What is the matter, James?" we all cried out. "What a red face you've got!"
    "Have I?" said he; "my nose is so cold! I ran here as fast as I could, there is such a beautiful breeze for a Kite. Come, both[9] of you, and let us fly the Kite high up in the blue sky; come as many of you as can, and this day you shall see what a Kite can do!"
    Up we all jumped, the Kite was brought down, and away we all started into the meadows, running nearly all the way, and James White never ceasing to talk of the wonderful things he intended the Kite should this day perform.
    We arrived in a large, grassy meadow, sloping down to a low hedge. Beyond the hedge was a very large field, and beyond that field another large field, which[10] had some high trees at the farthest end. In the tops of these trees was a rookery; we knew these trees very well, because we often used to walk that way, partly because it was a nice walk, and partly because an old woman, whom we were all very fond of, kept an apple and gingerbread-nut stall under the largest tree. However, as I said before, these trees were a long way offโ€”two whole fields offโ€”more, two whole fields and all the meadow. At the top of the meadow, near where we stood, there was also a high tree, and at the foot of this we laid down the Kite.[11]
    "O, James," said my brother, "do you think we shall be able to make the Kite fly as high as the tree we are under?"
    "As high!" said James White, "six times as high, at the very least."
    He now carefully unfolded the tail from the body of the Kite, being very particular to undo all the tangles near the tassel, which made quite a bunch; but he brought it out perfectly. One end of the ball of twine was now attached to the body of the Kite. He then raised it up with the right hand, holding out the tail in three great festoons with the left,[12] and in this way walked to and fro very uprightly and with a stately air, and turning his head in various quarters, to observe the direction of the wind. Suddenly he dropped the tail upon the ground, and lifting up the Kite with his right hand in the air, as high as he possibly could, off he ran down the meadow slope as fast as his legs could carry him, shouting all the way, "Up, up, up! rise, rise, rise! fly, Kite, in the air!" He finished by throwing the Kite up, continuing to run with the string in his hand, allowing it to slip through his fingers as the Kite[13] rose. The breeze caught the Kite, and up it went in fine style. It continued to rise rapidly, and we ran to and fro underneath, shouting all the time, "O, well done, James White, and well done, Kite!"
    By the excellent management of James, the Kite rose and rose, till we all said, "O, how high! how wonderful!" And then James White said he was satisfied.
    Now you are all to recollect that this Kite was very large. In the story I told you in summer, where the making of this Kite was described, you remember that it was said to be as tall as James[14] White himself, and of course very much broader. The consequence was, that this Kite was extremely strong. So we all sat down on the grass to hold the string, which James White said was necessary, as the Kite struggled and pulled so hard. It was now up quite as high as the string would allow it to go. But the wind seemed to be increasing, and James White said he began to be rather afraid that he must draw the Kite downwards, for fear it should have a quarrel with the wind up in the clouds, and then some accident might happen. We accordingly began to draw down the Kite[15] slowly, winding the string upon the stick as it gradually descended. But notwithstanding all this care, an accident did happen after all.
    Before the Kite was half-way down, a strong wind suddenly caught it sideways, and the Kite made a long sweep downwards, like a swallow, rising up again at some distance, swinging its tail about in a most alarming manner. "Bless my heart!" said James White.
    Up we all jumped from the grass. "Help me to hold her!" cried James White; "how she struggles!" Again came the wind, again the Kite made a sweep down[16] and rose up again, as if indignantโ€”then shook her tail and wings as if threatening to do some mischiefโ€”then made a quick motion to the right and a dance to the leftโ€”then made a very graceful courtesy deep down, as though she was very politely saluting the wind, but suddenly rose up with a sharp jerk, as though she had spitefully altered her mindโ€”and the next moment made a dart first to the right and then to the left, and continued to do this till James White said he was sure something must happen.
    We all held the string as fast as we could, and tried to pull down[17] the Kite; but it was impossible, for instead of bringing her down, we were all three dragged along down the meadow slope, crying out, "Somebody come and help us! somebody come and help us!" But nobody else was near. In this manner the Kite was pulling us along, the string cutting our hands, and running through our fingers like fire, till at last I was obliged to let go, and being unable to get out of the way, was knocked down, and being also unable to roll myself out of the way, my brother fell over me. James White was thus left alone with the Kite, and was dragged[18] struggling and hallooing down the meadow slope.
    He was determined, however, not to let go; nothing could make him loose the string; he was determined not to be conquered; but before he had got to the bottom of the slope, the string of the Kite broke about half-way down, and up sprang the Kite again towards the sky, taking its course over the meadow towards the great field beyond. We all three followed of course, as fast as we could, staring up, and panting, and not knowing what to do. The Kite continued to fly in rather an irregular manner over the[19] first great field. It then made a pitch downwards, and several tosses upwards, and flew straight over the second great field, in the direction of the high trees. "O, those trees!" cried James White, "it is flying towards the trees!"
    He was right, the Kite did fly directly towards the trees, as James White said it would. Just as it arrived nearly over those trees, it made a great pitch downwards, right into the top of the largest tree, and completely knocked over one of the rooks' nests that was built there. We came running up as soon as we could, and then we saw that it was the very tree, at[20] the foot of which was the stall of our dear old woman, who sold apples and gingerbread-nuts.
    "Make haste!" cried she;โ€”"the Kite is safe among the boughs; I can see its long tail hanging down. But do look here! the Kite has made us a present of five young rooks; two are fluttering among the golden pippins, and three are hopping and gaping among the gingerbread-nuts."
    James White scarcely looked at the rooks; he said he had more important business to attend to. He took off his jacket, and immediately began to climb up the[21] tree. In less than twenty minutes he succeeded in bringing down the Kite, with only two small rents in its left shoulder, and the loss of one wing, all of which he said he could easily repair.
    We took the five young rooks home with us, and had great amusement in rearing and feeding them, and as soon as they were old enough, we took them out into their native fields, and let them fly directly under the tree where they were born.





    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21616 From: dave santos Date: 1/5/2017
    Subject: Re: Minesto news
    Its a beautiful wing all-right, but there is a potential economic mismatch between expensive lightweight composite construction and submarine duty. It should prove industrially cheaper to form such a wing from mild-steel or ferrocement, given the scant positive buoyancy required. Mold-work for a composite wing might serve for ferrocement prototypes. Steel and ferrocement energy paravanes are claimed for the Open-AWE_IP-Cloud.

    wing-order


    On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 7:23 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21617 From: benhaiemp Date: 1/5/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    From Mini-symposium Airborne Wind Energy (14 Dec)

     

       "All start-up are a bit entrenched in their choice of technology and a very-small-scale prototype costs in the order of 100 000 $.". It is far beyond Christof's, Rod's, Dave's, Doug's, Pierre's money for prototypes or proofs of concept.  So besides start-up there is some space to try and test some configurations and their variants with little money, but always big work.


    PierreB

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21618 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/5/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    Stating something does not make it true. One counterexample to a statement can prove the statement untrue. Use of "all" in statements lets one counterexample to prove that "all" does not hold for the statement. So, I ask, is there a counterexample to "... a very-small-scale prototype costs in the order of 100 000 $." In forum there seems to be evidence that some very-small-scale prototype" AWES have occurred for the spending of the order of less than $100. US.  If so, then the general statement does not hold about the 100 000 $.  Perhaps much more clarification may be in order to describe costs of AWES prototype at some scale (from tiny to huge). 


    The "always big work" is vulnerable to similar counterexample. We have in forum video of some AWES prototypes that appear have little work involved; if so, then the statement for "all" would not hold.  Just what is big and little "work" is up for more careful description. Tinkerers in AWE seem to have described many AWES prototypes that may have been produced with moderate work involved.    


    How does one calculate a tinkerer's time when loading the cost of a prototype? 


    Precise accounting for the costs of an AWES prototype project reported would serve information sharing neatly; then we would have such points for comparison or benchmarking other prototype projects. 

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21619 From: dave santos Date: 1/5/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    In agreement with JoeF, its obviously a misleading impression that a "very-small-scale [AWES] prototype costs in the order of 100 000".

    Early aviation history proves its not big-money but superior talent that most counts [Lilienthal and Wright Bros].


    On Thursday, January 5, 2017 3:05 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Stating something does not make it true. One counterexample to a statement can prove the statement untrue. Use of "all" in statements lets one counterexample to prove that "all" does not hold for the statement. So, I ask, is there a counterexample to "... a very-small-scale prototype costs in the order of 100 000 $." In forum there seems to be evidence that some very-small-scale prototype" AWES have occurred for the spending of the order of less than $100. US.  If so, then the general statement does not hold about the 100 000 $.  Perhaps much more clarification may be in order to describe costs of AWES prototype at some scale (from tiny to huge). 

    The "always big work" is vulnerable to similar counterexample. We have in forum video of some AWES prototypes that appear have little work involved; if so, then the statement for "all" would not hold.  Just what is big and little "work" is up for more careful description. Tinkerers in AWE seem to have described many AWES prototypes that may have been produced with moderate work involved.    

    How does one calculate a tinkerer's time when loading the cost of a prototype? 

    Precise accounting for the costs of an AWES prototype project reported would serve information sharing neatly; then we would have such points for comparison or benchmarking other prototype projects. 


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21620 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/5/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    By the same I agree with JoeF. So I change "always big work" into "sometimes big work". I agree also that for tiny scale 100 000 $ can be 100 $. It is perhaps an indication of the way of working of some start-up, being able to prevent some testing due to high cost involved by such a way. Or perhaps 100 $ can be sufficient for a proof of concept, while a tiny prototype with consequent automated system can be expensive.

     

    PierreB

     

     

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21621 From: dave santos Date: 1/5/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    Easy AWES for sale; all-modes autonomous, including self-relaunching; asking $100,000





    On Thursday, January 5, 2017 4:19 PM, "Pierre BENHAIEM pierre-benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    By the same I agree with JoeF. So I change "always big work" into "sometimes big work". I agree also that for tiny scale 100 000 $ can be 100 $. It is perhaps an indication of the way of working of some start-up, being able to prevent some testing due to high cost involved by such a way. Or perhaps 100 $ can be sufficient for a proof of concept, while a tiny prototype with consequent automated system can be expensive.
     
    PierreB
     
     


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21622 From: benhaiemp Date: 1/6/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    How much power did this looping foil make during tests in video? And if possible what were the foil area and wind speed?


    PierreB

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21623 From: dave santos Date: 1/6/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    Pierre,

    It takes about 25W avg to power a foot pump to bike tire pressures. The small looping kite was the 1.2m2 Prism Snapshot, and the pilot-lifter was a Kayakite. The windspeed was not measured, but of course would determine power available.

    If you somehow need a carefully rated power curve for this sort of design, its not hard to copy, 

    daveS


    On Friday, January 6, 2017 12:04 PM, "pierre-benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    How much power did this looping foil make during tests in video? And if possible what were the foil area and wind speed?

    PierreB


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21624 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2017
    Subject: Tapping Deep Ocean Current Shear by opposed Paravanes
    Free-flight by opposed tethered wings working across wind shear is known to us from a few sources [Wilson, Lamb, German, Kramer, etc.]. The sustained flight effect works, but if the shear goes away, the wings come down. Ocean current shear is a comparably vast resource to wind shear, but more consistent; neutrally buoyant undersea wings need not sink if current shear is not present. There are many places in the ocean where current shear occurs on a vast scale, like where the Gulf Stream crosses over its return-current. These shear locations are fairly stable, so the capability to keep place is eased. For all these reasons, it may be that opposed tethered wings undersea are comparatively favored over airborne versions.

    We have hardly begun to work out the various array and PTO methods that current-shear tethered paravanes can employ, but the theoretic potential is too great to ignore. Minesto itself may someday find itself targeting current shear, not just the shear between a bottom anchor and paravane.

    Open-AWE_IP-Cloud
    --------------
    Schematic by Kamenkovich shows major ocean shear shear zones in the Southern Oceans-

    Schematics of the global thermohaline ocean dirculation

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21625 From: benhaiemp Date: 1/7/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    Thanks for the informations DaveS.

    Perhaps some power can be deduced from tests on Rotating kite , comparing both swept areas (lower on the current video) and rpm (higher on the current video), then reporting data (0.7 mยฒ kite area, 3 m/s wind speed, 40 N traction on the current video).

     PierreB

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21626 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    Its actually a hard problem to measure AWE, since so many factors need to be defined. One must state in advance if raw-power or net-power is meant, what wind range is intended, and how rated wind velocity is chosen. By the strictest criteria, wind power claims must be certified by an independent third-party according to industry standards.

    Naturally, no AWES developer has gotten that far, and the race-focus is to discover the best methods and designs before rigorous AWES certification standards even exist. The most pathetic cases are those where developers take great pains to measure the power output of poor designs, without baseline comparisons with the same winds, and many other such optimal-experimental-design practices.

    Another source of confusion is to compare AWES power claims blindly across functional spectra. Thus a developer might well claim higher measured power for a design that never will be safe, cheap, or reliable enough to beat the most practical design of a lower power. A 25W AWES that runs reliably can over time out-power a 250W AWES that soon breaks down. That's where LCOE comes into play, and no AWES analyst has ever had good enough micro- or macro-economic data to make sound LCOE predictions. 

    Lucky for us, its easier to make a small prototype AWES work empirically, like the Wright Bros made powered-flight work, than to properly design power certification and LCOE estimation for it.



    On Saturday, January 7, 2017 12:15 PM, "pierre-benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Thanks for the informations DaveS.
    Perhaps some power can be deduced from tests on Rotating kite , comparing both swept areas (lower on the current video) and rpm (higher on the current video), then reporting data (0.7 mยฒ kite area, 3 m/s wind speed, 40 N traction on the current video).
     PierreB


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21627 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2017
    Subject: What really causes Wind? What to do about it? (update)
    Search around for the "cause" of global wind, and the common answer is "the Sun". Dig deeper into the science and wind is found caused by interaction of planetary rotation and solar convection, called the geostrophic balance. This is basic Newtonian Conservation (of energy, inertia, etc.), of equal opposite forces. So a more correct cause for wind is the interaction of sunlight and fossil-momentum from the Big Bang itself, that set all mass in motion. This was puzzled out on the AWES Forum about five years ago, inspired by Cristina Archer's AWE pioneering meteorology analysis at full global scale. 

    There was still a major gap in global wind causality to fill in now. The sun shines on half of Earth at a time, from a point-like position. All of the point-like solar energy radiated to Earth is converted to re-radiation to space in all directions, in a balanced-energy process, or the Earth would heat up indefinitely. If the Earth were illuminated equally, solar and shade convection would die away. This means global wind is just as dependent on shade-convection as solar-convection processes, interacting together with planetary rotation. Therefore, a truer explanation of wind is cosmic separation of light and dark, plus primeval motion.

    What to do about this new science? Subsiding airmasses and downdrafts deserve more awareness in AWE. Gliders, after all, mostly log updraft time from flexible choice of time and place of flight, while AWES keep station and take what comes. Lets continue to build a systematic ontological classification of varied falling-air phenomena, from local "white-squall" virga downbursts, to vast general atmospheric subsidence at Horse latitudes. We see a fundamental orthogonal interplay between vertical and horizontal air motion; as a sort of "crosswind" dependence. There is still a lot left to figure out, in order to master global wind by means of kites.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21628 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    Pierre,

    New Tech Kites of Austin could produce it easily, since they already sell the Kayakite and a small power-foil. However, we have determined that this is not a very smart business-plan, since the markets for "science novelties" are small. The looping foil demo was instead intended as a conceptual proof-of-concept for far larger power-kites, like SkySails', to do serious work (power a village, irrigate a large area).

    JohnO is not a toy developer, but a professional-level executive (as AWEIA Director)*. You may be overlooking that AWE has a leadership gap caused by the deaths of MacCready, Ockels, and Hardham; so we need all our remaining leaders like JohnO to represent AWE to BEV, rather than chase toy markets. There are plenty of talented product developers to eventually supply niche AWE markets.

    Many small-AWES pioneers, like you and PeterS, face the same stark decision; work on small novelties or work on big concepts. Its not going to end well for so many teams competing for the still mostly non-existent small-scale AWES market, while others focus on tapping the world energy market with almost unlimited R&D funding,

    daveS

    ---------
    * Help us get JohnO back into AWEC conference planning and participation, as Wubbo did, but Guido and Roland wrongly blocked, after Wubbos death. Let someone else make the toys. "Wubbo Lives" :)





    On Sunday, January 8, 2017 9:26 AM, Pierre BENHAIEM <pierre-benhaiem@orange.fr
     
    25 W is a correct value for both systems if wind speed is about 3-5 m/s.
     
    So the looping foil that was presented several times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwwLmRjRar0 looks to be a suitable low cost and passively automated enough pumping water wind device needing few adaptations. Indeed the strokes of a pump air are already used. Perhaps could you improve this device and John could produce it?
     
    PierreB
     
     
     
     


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21629 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    DaveS,

     

    25 W is a correct value for both systems if wind speed is about 3-5 m/s.

     

    So the looping foil that was presented several times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwwLmRjRar0 looks to be a suitable low cost and passively automated enough pumping water wind device needing few adaptations. Indeed the strokes of a pump air are already used. Perhaps could you improve this device and John could produce it?

     

    PierreB

     

     

     

     

     

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21630 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: A Brief History of AWEIA, and the present challenge in AWE
    The Airborne Wind Energy Industry Association (AWEIA) was founded early in 2009, with John Oyebanji (JohnO) as its first director. AWEIA worked with Cristina Archer and others to organize HAWPcon09, the first global AWE conference, which was wildly successful.  In this early period, about 200 AWE pioneers were listed as AWEIA founding-circle members by JoeF.  AWEIA supported all parties equally, from Google-backed ventures to lone-prophets like Wayne German. We did not suspect that it was the last brief springtime of unity in AWE R&D. A few small cracks were apparent; a call for a military-moratorium in AWE R&D did not sit well with profit-driven parties; eccentric figures like Wayne German were shunned and even openly ridiculed by venture capitalists new to AWE. Things soon went sour in a big way.

    A breakaway faction led by Google-funded Makani Power and Joby Energy secretly formed the Airborne Wind Energy Consortium (AWEC). They took over conferences on a secretive pay-to-play insider basis. AWEC, for all its  financial advantages, faltered with ill-fated initiatives, like lobbying the US Congress to privatize airspace (swatted down by legacy aviation). Then came deeply declining AWEC conference attendance by over-pricing and insider dominance. The worst years are remembered as "stolen conferences". AWEIA was boxed into the role of loyal opposition. Wubbo briefly brought everyone together at the 2011 conference (putting JohnO's AWEIA welcome message before his keynote speech). Wubbo died tragically soon after, and AWEIA was blocked from conference planning by successors. Eventually Google's circle dropped AWEC, rather than reform it.  AWEC control passed to an elitist EU circle, starting with Ampyx, and extending to the circle of Northern EU developers (current members of AWESCO). There is today no public knowledge of AWEC's internal dealings, or even if it still exists as such, but the AWEC conference brand lives on (AWEC2017 in planning).

    During the "stolen conference" period, AWEIA, along with most early-AWE developers, languished in the shadow of Google-Makani hype. JohnO held in there, alway's even-handed and ready to back any member in need (like defending KiteGen faced with a misinformed public attack). He developed the AWEIA website with provisional regulatory and professional-ethics standards, and stood down a Makani demand to have wing7 removed from a representative AWE industry slide-show. At the lowest ebb of AWEC-depressed morale, he won a vote-of-confidence; the small but historic beginning of democratic governance in the AWE Industry. JohnO did all this essentially as an unpaid volunteer, at great personal sacrifice, even as many parties we know made millions on the venture-side, with no technical solutions delivered. Open-AWE developed as an AWEIA-affinity movement (still small, as is the "AWE industry"), with clear technical distinctions from the stealth-ventures, like low-complexity DIY designs, CC IP, and so on. Many of the most advanced AWES concepts developed as Open-AWE on the AWES Forum

    Now, after years of churn, the stealth-ventures and their AWEC vehicle seem failed. Its time to once again raise up AWEIA, in order to best represent all of AWE's diversity for major industry R & D funding by Breakthrough Energy Venture (BEV) funding. The urgent issues remain the same as in 2009; for AWEIA to promote AWE on best-practices, for peaceful equitable transparent R & D, based on optimal-experimental-design, on a global scale. Please help develop AWEIA further as AWE's Industry Association, and support AWEC-reform. Its time to organize AWEC2018 for Seattle, WA, at the Museum of Flight, to address BEV challenges in the backyard of  its top leaders (Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos). John Oyebanji's honored role is to present AWE to BEV on all our behalf, not as a dictator, as AWEC acted, but as our ambassador.  He will even represent the inclusion of AWEC and Google parties, since the R & D must include all the concepts in comparison, and because there is engineering talent on all teams.

    "Wubbo Lives"

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21631 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    It seems you are now proposing JohnO develop larger scale looping-kite versions, but kPower is already doing that. Read the brief history of AWEIA just posted to understand JohnO's higher calling in AWE R&D. It did not make sense that you somehow saw him as a scaling-engineer for looping foils, rather than as an ambassador for all of AWE, in all its forms.


    On Sunday, January 8, 2017 11:50 AM, Pierre BENHAIEM <pierre-benhaiem@orange.fr
     
    I wrote: "So the looping foil that was presented several times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwwLmRjRar0 looks to be a suitable low cost and passively automated enough pumping water wind device needing few adaptations."
    As "few adaptations" there are water device and scaling up in order to meet utility production. It is easy to understand I did not write about toys as I wrote about energy production.The looping foil could perhaps be developped at higher scale without electronically controlled automation system. At least it would be a mean to know if really a passively controlled AWES can be suitable for energy production. 
     
     
    PierreB
     
     
     
     


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21632 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    Pierre,

    Its naturally confusing that "toy-scale" and "prototype-scale" are the same scale. Few toy-scale AWES prototypes are actually intended as toy-market products. The small kPower looping-foil was primarily intended to show what large ship-kites, like North Sails* makes for SkySails, could do if rigged for passive pumping, as kPower has developed. Even more confusing, all kites are "toys" to the handful of big-kite pros, even Mothra1 and ship-kites, yet these are not toys in any normal sense, but truly "dangerous monsters". 

    Another confusion is to imagine JohnO should somehow develop looping foils (large-scale or toy-scale). JohnO's role is to represent all AWES architectures for major R&D, not just looping-foils. kPower and New Tech Kites have decided the looping foil was marginal as a "kite-toy". The looping foil is instead being developed as a large-scale method, but we welcome anyone to develop it as a toy. All large-scale AWES will have active safety and trim controls, whether passive or active in nominal operation.

    Large scale AWES R&D is hard, but toy-scale is comparatively easy,

    daveS

    --------------

    * North Sails is a senior corporate bridge between KiteShip (founded in North Sails old loft in Alameda) and SkySails (whose kites were developed by North NZ)

    Note: JoeF is the AWES Forum Moderator. Sometimes messages do not appear in order, for various reasons. If you have moderation issues, form a separate topic, or contact Joe directly.





    On Sunday, January 8, 2017 1:38 PM, Pierre BENHAIEM <pierre-benhaiem@orange.fr
     
    It is strange that you reply to my message that is yet under your and Joe's moderation...
    You qualify as toy your own scheme or at least the scheme you present. But perhaps it can be a serious scheme. Are all AWES you present only toys? If yes _ at least you indicate it in some way _ it can be still positive.
     
    PierreB
     
     
     


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21633 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    DaveS,

     

    I wrote: "So the looping foil that was presented several times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwwLmRjRar0 looks to be a suitable low cost and passively automated enough pumping water wind device needing few adaptations."

    As "few adaptations" there are water device and scaling up in order to meet utility production. It is easy to understand I did not write about toys as I wrote about energy production.The looping foil could perhaps be developped at higher scale without electronically controlled automation system. At least it would be a mean to know if really a passively controlled AWES can be suitable for energy production. 

     

     

    PierreB

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21634 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    DaveS,

     

    It is strange that you reply to my message that is yet under your and Joe's moderation...

    You qualify as toy your own scheme or at least the scheme you present. But perhaps it can be a serious scheme. Are all AWES you present only toys? If yes _ at least you indicate it in some way _ it can be still positive.

     

    PierreB

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21635 From: benhaiemp Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    DaveS wrote: "It did not make sense that you somehow saw him as a scaling-engineer for looping foils, rather than as an ambassador for all of AWE, in all its forms."


    OK, please can you indicate what are AWES from AWEIA including John's schemes? And also please can you precise when an AWES you present is not a toy?


    PierreB

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21636 From: benhaiemp Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    Another question. You (DaveS) should reply only when the message is already on the forum.


    PierreB

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21637 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.

    Do you (DaveS) want to mean that you make these confusions?

     

    PierreB

     

     

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21638 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: Re: Building an Airborne Wind Energy System could be easy or hard.
    Pierre,

    All utility-scale AWES will have some active controls, even Low-Complexity AWES with inherent-stability and passive-dynamics. Its a standard safety-reliability advantage to have aircraft with inherent stability as well as auto-piloting. An ideal AWES  may well have passive-control capability, as well as overlaid flight automation, plus Pilot-in-Control (PIC) override capability. This conservative design philosophy has been explored in great detail over many years on the AWES Forum, and in TACO 1.0.

    Its mistaken to propose JohnO take over development of looping foils, at toy or utility scale, when his proper leadership role as AWEIA President is to support all AWE concepts equally, for pending formal fly-off competition phases (Fraunhofer Plan). SkySails would be a more logical developer of large looping-foils, and there are MOU agreements in place for such future developments, pending the new funding and testing rounds. Support JohnO in this vital leadership role, if you want to help,

    daveS

    Fly-offs are a traditional means of selecting military and commercial aviation designs for procurement-



    On Sunday, January 8, 2017 5:56 PM, "Pierre BENHAIEM pierre-benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    DaveS,
     
    I wrote: "So the looping foil that was presented several times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwwLmRjRar0 looks to be a suitable low cost and passively automated enough pumping water wind device needing few adaptations."
    As "few adaptations" there are water device and scaling up in order to meet utility production. It is easy to understand I did not write about toys as I wrote about energy production.The looping foil could perhaps be developped at higher scale without electronically controlled automation system. At least it would be a mean to know if really a passively controlled AWES can be suitable for energy production. 
     
     
    PierreB


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21639 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/8/2017
    Subject: Skymill Energy
    Gyroglider power-generation, control apparatus and method 
    US 9470206 B2

    Tethered gyroglider control systems

    www.google.com/patents/WO2013130526A3?cl=en
    App. - โ€ŽFiled Feb 27, 2013 - โ€ŽPublished Oct 24, 2013 - โ€ŽGregory Howard Hastings - โ€ŽGregory Howard Hastings
    A flight control system for at least one tethered gyroglider along a flight path consistent with at least one flight mission is configured to fly the ...
    โ€ŽOverview ยท โ€ŽRelated ยท โ€ŽDiscuss


    Grant - โ€ŽFiled Dec 10, 2012 - โ€ŽIssued Jul 29, 2014 - โ€ŽGrant Howard Calverley - โ€ŽGrant Howard Calverley
    A power system comprises a tension harnessing arrangement to harness tension in a tether connected between a tensioning arrangement and ...
    โ€ŽOverview ยท โ€ŽRelated ยท โ€ŽDiscuss

    Tethered Gyroglider Control Systems

    App. - โ€ŽFiled Aug 28, 2014 - โ€ŽPublished Feb 5, 2015 - โ€ŽGregory Howard Hastings - โ€ŽGregory Howard Hastings
    A flight control system for at least one tethered gyroglider along a flight path consistent with at least one flight mission is configured to fly the ...
    โ€ŽOverview ยท โ€ŽRelated ยท โ€ŽDiscuss

    Gyroglider power-generation, control apparatus and method

    Grant - โ€ŽFiled Nov 20, 2014 - โ€ŽIssued Oct 11, 2016 - โ€ŽGrant Howard Calverley - โ€ŽGrant Howard Calverley
    A power generation apparatus and method comprises at least one gyroglider rotary wing flying at an altitude above the nap of the earth.
    โ€ŽOverview ยท โ€ŽRelated ยท โ€ŽDiscuss

    Gyroglider power-generation, control apparatus and method

    Grant - โ€ŽFiled Nov 20, 2014 - โ€ŽIssued Oct 18, 2016 - โ€ŽGrant Howard Calverley - โ€ŽGrant Howard Calverley
    A power generation apparatus and method comprises at least one gyroglider rotary wing flying at an altitude above the nap of the earth.
    โ€ŽOverview ยท โ€ŽRelated ยท โ€ŽDiscuss

    Gyroglider power-generation, control apparatus and method

    Grant - โ€ŽFiled Nov 20, 2014 - โ€ŽIssued Oct 18, 2016 - โ€ŽGrant Howard Calverley - โ€ŽGrant Howard Calverley
    A power generation apparatus and method comprises at least one gyroglider rotary wing flying at an altitude above the nap of the earth.
    โ€ŽOverview ยท โ€ŽRelated ยท โ€ŽDiscuss

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21640 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/9/2017
    Subject: Tethering, bridling, and anchoring challenges from ship launching

    Tethering, bridling, and anchoring challenges from ship launching

    Incidents may hold lessons for AWES engineering. 


    Ship Launch Gone Wrong


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21641 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/9/2017
    Subject: Re: Forum headline images
    http://www.energykitesystems.net/ForumHeadlineImages/vortexshedding.JPG

     

    Image choice is related to the article: 
    Vortex shedding - Wikipedia

     



    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21642 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/9/2017
    Subject: Re: Skymill Energy
    Dale Gluck  
    Positioning innovators for growth: Strategy Speaks 
    Greater Seattle Area Marketing and Advertising 

     Current: Strategy Speaks, SkyMill Energy, Inc
    ==============================================

    Governing Skymill Energy, Inc.  team: 
    CALVERLEY , Grant
    HASTINGS , Gregory
    GLUCK , Dale
    All of the state of Washington, USA
    ==============================================
    ==============================================
    AWES update is invited. 

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21643 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/9/2017
    Subject: Extruded drum surface for storage of tether
    Brian Hachtmann
    Publication numberWO2015095222 A1
    Publication typeApplication
    Application numberPCT/US2014/070653
    Publication dateJun 25, 2015
    Filing dateDec 16, 2014
    Priority dateDec 20, 2013
    Also published asCN105980253AUS9475589US20150175277
    InventorsBrian Hachtmann
    ApplicantGoogle Inc.
    Export CitationBiBTeXEndNoteRefMan
    External Links: PatentscopeEspacenet
    ============================== and
    Extruded drum surface for storage of tether  
    WO 2015102855 A3
    Lind Damon Vander, 
    Brian Hachtmann
    Publication numberWO2015102855 A3
    Publication typeApplication
    Application numberPCT/US2014/070100
    Publication dateNov 12, 2015
    Filing dateDec 12, 2014
    Priority dateDec 30, 2013
    Also published asCN105849022A5 More ยป
    InventorsLind Damon VanderBrian Hachtmann
    ApplicantGoogle Inc.
    Export CitationBiBTeXEndNoteRefMan
    External Links: PatentscopeEspacenet


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21644 From: dave santos Date: 1/9/2017
    Subject: Re: Forum headline images
    The animation shows a common vortex-train shed by a bluff cylinder, much as a flagpole sheds such an oscillating wake. As a flag waves from its pole, attached train-vortices move downwind along the flag's surfaces. To tap this vortex-train energy, rigging options include a crosswind PTO line phased-array orthogonal to the flag plane (performance-optimal), or a single pumping PTO line at the trailing edge (simpler). Due to limited crosswind travel and low L/D, this is more of a science demo than a practical AWES basis. Flip-wings are specialized flapping flags for large crosswind sweeps with higher L/D and power-to-weight, that shed a similar wakes. Kinetic kites also entrain vortices like flags.




    On Monday, January 9, 2017 1:49 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
     
    Image choice is related to the article: 
    Vortex shedding - Wikipedia
     




    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21645 From: dave santos Date: 1/9/2017
    Subject: Re: Extruded drum surface for storage of tether
    This is a GoogleX Wing7 related patent. I viewed the image on the Chinese patent, since Google oddly blocked my PDF view of the English versions.

    An ironic aspect of a GoogleX Chinese kite patent filing is that Asian kite storage reels are very ancient and diverse; what could be more obvious than using a storage reel for a kite, flygen or not? Furthermore, the flygen concept-space may not prevail in the "AWT" tech race, reel or not. We are also seeing free-spending on one odd AWES paradigm, as so many others go begging. The most complex solutions apparently generate the biggest patenting projects. It will not be surprising to see winning solutions emerge from the KIS-compliant capital-starved AWE players, given the Darwinian race goes to the most cost-effective lowest LCOE.

    We can wish GoogleX really could solve AWE, to save us the trouble. Never mind, we got their back :)










    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21646 From: dave santos Date: 1/10/2017
    Subject: Groundgen Power-Kites as Baseline AWES Units
    Like the flygen v groundgen divide, AWE R&D concepts can be classified into two categories; power-kites v everything else. Power-kites are by far the most popular choice of wing in AWE R&D, and hold the working AWE records for scalabilty, cost-effectiveness, service lifetime, and so on. They are the one available choice of AWES wing that is TRL9 and can be bought easily already at a an advanced stage of refinement. They are the only proven baseline wing method to compare all the other unproven oddball schemes. Anyone working on something other than an AWES groundgen/powerkite basis is under enormous pressure to keep up.

    its possible that the modern power-kite has already won the AWES R&D process, and its only a matter of time before serious third-party comparative testing validates the winner to the world. Similarly, groundgens are more popular than flygens in AWE R&D, therefore the groundgen/power-kite AWES may already be the default best AWES architecture. This is not a claim, but a hypothesis subject to testing. Even if the groundgen power-kite is destined to succeed, there is still a lot of open design work remaining to harness kite to generator operationally, and to integrate large numbers of power-kites to match the largest generators.

    Its likely that the AWESCO network is aware of this emerging picture, via SkySails' contribution to the long delayed 2nd AWE book reporting its groundgen/power-kite. Its pretty certain that no other party will present as impressive baseline results, but to admit such a fact clearly will be socially and financially disruptive to most of the inside circle of Ampyx and other non-powerkite players. Of course, such a reality would be hard to face explicitly, so a fog of excuses is likely. This speculation owes to the secretive nature of AWESCO work, with no clear results expected from the venture-driven culture. No doubt some of the new PhDs are restless. Its a very dramatic moment in AWE history, behind the scenes.

    If nothing else, groundgen/power-kites are a defacto AWE baseline method with a considerable lead in proven performance. KiteNRG already held the AWES electric generation record with a groundgen/power-kite AWES (
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21647 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/10/2017
    Subject: Re: Extruded drum surface for storage of tether
    Similar-sounding title, but what might be distinct claims and focus?


    Applicants:GOOGLE INC. [US/US]; 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway Mountain View, CA 94043 (US)
    Inventors:HACHTMANN, Brian; (US)


    Priority Data:
    14/137,677 20.12.2013 US

    =============

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21648 From: dave santos Date: 1/10/2017
    Subject: Re: Extruded drum surface for storage of tether
    Its clear GoogleX AWE patents are more an overview of futzy detail engineering and gratuitous patenting, rather than key inventive leaps. After all, the world is full of highly evolved reels and cables across endless applications. Even if there is some novel detail, somewhere, an equivalent mechanical engineering solution in a well-known form would likely exist. Google's AWE patents will likely be ignored, and not even defended, if their whole AWES architecture dies in the energy market.

    A weirdly banal claim is the "extruded drum". Winch drums are not generally extruded at all, and there would be no critical advantage to one that was. Drums are machined, fabricated, or molded, and work just fine. Pasta is extruded; if only they had the patent on that :)


    On Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:39 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Similar-sounding title, but what might be distinct claims and focus?


    Applicants:GOOGLE INC. [US/US]; 1600 Amphitheatre Parkway Mountain View, CA 94043 (US)
    Inventors:HACHTMANN, Brian; (US)


    Priority Data:
    14/137,677 20.12.2013 US

    =============



    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 21649 From: Joe Faust Date: 1/10/2017
    Subject: Tether termination systems and methods
    Tether termination systems and methods 
    WO 2016061000 A1
    Publication numberWO2016061000 A1
    Publication typeApplication
    Application numberPCT/US2015/055170
    Publication dateApr 21, 2016
    Filing dateOct 12, 2015
    Priority dateOct 13, 2014
    Also published asUS20160102654
    InventorsBryan Christopher GILROYSMITHElias Wolfgang PATTENBrian Hachtmann
    ApplicantGoogle Inc.
    Export CitationBiBTeXEndNoteRefMan
    External Links: PatentscopeEspacenet
    For PDF of original documents: Follow the Patentscope path 
    using the tab: "Documents".   Then notice that there is often view of very many documents related to the patent which have comments that could be interesting.