Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES9489to9538 Page 87 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9489 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: The common flaw in all the "LCOE < ~.02USD per kWhr" claims

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9490 From: stephane rousson Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: News Scubster, Aeroceanographe, Seaglider

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9491 From: Gabor Dobos Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Dynamic Soaring the Jet stream (links)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9492 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: From a year ago: Adam Rein talking

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9493 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Work kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9494 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Kite antenna

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9495 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Inspecting tethers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9496 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: A2WE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9497 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Sean Costello

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9498 From: dave santos Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Re: Inspecting tethers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9499 From: dave santos Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Work Kites (modern classic kite antenna methods)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9500 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Work Kites (modern classic kite antenna methods)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9501 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Internet on one confined string

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9502 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Gaylord Olson studied for some fast-motion transfer?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9503 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Jacob Felser, Jake Felser

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9504 From: dobosg001 Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: AWEC 2013

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9505 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Jacob Felser, Jake Felser

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9506 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: AWEC 2013

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9507 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Dr Dylan Thorpe

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9508 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Chalmers University

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9509 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Estimation of the mechanical energy output of the kite wind generato

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9510 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: "Höhenwind" at Beuth

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9511 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: SkySails, a paper in German

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9512 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Some text and photos about EnerKite

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9513 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Guido Luetsch Pitches NTS and its High-Altitude Wind Technology

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9514 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Guido Luetsch Pitches NTS and its High-Altitude Wind Technology

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9515 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: On May 23, 2012 on Otto's birthday: HighWind Conference

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9516 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Going lower than ground level for AWES groundstations?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9517 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: "a leading company in airborne wind energy"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9518 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Flock flying

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9519 From: Doug Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: The common flaw in all the "LCOE < ~.02USD per kWhr" claims

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9520 From: dave santos Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Answering Doug //Re: [AWES] Re: The common flaw in all the "LCOE <

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9521 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Ampyx rigid-winged kite system

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9522 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Anyone for lifting Octo?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9523 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: From China to US ...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9524 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: From China to US ...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9525 From: roderickjosephread Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Re: On May 23, 2012 on Otto's birthday: HighWind Conference

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9526 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Rope swings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9527 From: roderickjosephread Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Re: On May 23, 2012 on Otto's birthday: HighWind Conference

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9528 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Re: Alula Energy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9529 From: roderickjosephread Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: robokite: open source kite control software repository and project d

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9530 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Jörg J. Buchholz

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9531 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Anurac

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9532 From: dave santos Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Berlin Conference Blues

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9533 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Pavel Miodushevsky with Nov. 13, 2002, priority on ...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9534 From: dave santos Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Berlin Conference AWES Demo Confirmation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9535 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Guangdong High-Altitude Wind Power Technology, LTD

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9536 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Industry note

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9537 From: Hardensoft International Limited Date: 7/10/2013
Subject: Re: Industry note

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9538 From: Muzhichkov Date: 7/10/2013
Subject: A problem with energy transfer by longitudinal oscillations



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9489 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: Re: The common flaw in all the "LCOE < ~.02USD per kWhr" claims
Doug S., Dave S, and All, 
Critique of this paragraph is invited: 

" ==Prospects for crosswind kite power==
Current trends in CWKPS sectors will have their follow-on stories. Enthusiasm seems to be at a high level among over a thousand workers in the crosswind kite power realm that includes scales from toy scale to utility-grid. Speculation for traveling and moving goods without fuel around the world by use of CWKPS is envisioned both by systems staying connected to the ground and some systems fully disconnected from the ground. Objectives for the future discussed in the literature regard CWKPS facing toy, sport, industry, science, commerce, energy for electrical grid, sailing, and a host of other tasking applications. For CWKPS to compete with [[solar energy]], [[nuclear energy]], [[fossil fuels]], conventional [[wind power]], DWKPS, or other [[renewable energy]] sources, the [[levelized cost of energy]] from CWKPS will need to become competitive, proven, made known, and adopted; during CWKPS march into the future, other competing sectors will be advancing also. The variety of configurations of kite systems that will fly wings to crosswind for the enhanced power is expected to grow; however, for specific purposes and applications, some winning formats are expected to eventually shine. Placing wing elements that fly to crosswind on huge lofted rope-based arches or even net domes is being researched."
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9490 From: stephane rousson Date: 7/1/2013
Subject: News Scubster, Aeroceanographe, Seaglider
Bonjour, voici les news du Sous-marin, du bateau électrique, Seaglider..
Hello Here is the news about our Submarine ,Electric Boat, Seaglider  ..

--
Stephane Rousson
0033(0)603838276
 



   @@attachment@@
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9491 From: Gabor Dobos Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: Re: Dynamic Soaring the Jet stream (links)
Thank you Dave! I enjoy this, indeed.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9492 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/3/2013
Subject: From a year ago: Adam Rein talking
Altaeros Energies
Adam Rein, co-founder
17  min video, but first 8 minutes is on Adam Rein. Last half is other matter. 
Video posted June 27, 2012   HERE 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9493 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Work kites

work kite, work kites                            Main folder

  • A work kite is a kite system employed to do some task other than merely being itself which is already a way of doing something, i.e., converting wind energy to lift and drag to sustain the kite sailed body in the air (or water).  Work kites perform tasks, pull things, generate electricity, move things, lift things, cut things grind things, etc. Hundreds of tasks have been done by work kites throughout history.    More tasks in K3, the age of tethered aviation, the age of the tethered working wing systems, are slated to perform huge tasks. 
  • A work kite is a kite type that performs a special work.
  • See also: Kite applications where focus is on the specific works done by work kites or work kite systems.
  • Util has registered  WorkKites.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9494 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/4/2013
Subject: Kite antenna
Some experience behind the notes on the following page: 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9495 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/5/2013
Subject: Inspecting tethers
Though this article is about inspecting steel cables it reminds me of the potential of similar tasks on any line: 

Robots inspect cables 

Research News Jul 01, 2013 

Fraunhofer is Europe's largest application-oriented research organization.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9496 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: A2WE
Autonomous Airborne Wind Energy  (A2WE)
is a three-year research project headed by Dr. Colin Jones
at EPFL
ÉCOLE POLYTECHNIQUE FÉDÉRALE DE LAUSANNE



====================================================
http://www.energykitesystems.net/0/SwissKitePower/index.html
http://www.energykitesystems.net/EPFL/index.html
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9497 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Sean Costello
     Student project:
Professor: Dominique Bonvin 
Type of project: Master or Semester (preferably for  2 students)
Contact: 
http://people.epfl.ch/sean.costello     Page includes photo. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9498 From: dave santos Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Re: Inspecting tethers
For inspecting our typical spooled polymer cables, high-linespeed acoustic testing will be favored. By reading "ping" signal returns (reflections, distortions, attenuations) all along the line, discontinuities (weaknesses, stress-concentrators) will be flagged for maintenance or repair. Wire rope can also be acoustically inspected, although the previous post featured a magnetic-field method for conductors.
 
The ultimate inspection basis would be full realtime acoustic monitoring of an entire string network, both for high-certainty operational state, and for timely maintenance flagging. A distributed sensor-RFtransmitter network could enable the concept.
 
At present, lines are intensively inspected by hand, particularly during launch and landing routines.
 




========================== I am sorry for the Yahoo "CSNBC Jobs" Spam Virus  that hijacked the Contact List for this mail account.  Please accept this apology for any trouble caused.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9499 From: dave santos Date: 7/6/2013
Subject: Work Kites (modern classic kite antenna methods)
Following one of Joe's links led to this kiteHam, Roger-G4ROJ, who creates serious antennas with sixty different common hobbyist kites. His graphically enhanced photos make exemplary megascale kite diagrams. The various web pages are full of interesting knowledge. The menu-
 
 
A good page for a quick view-
Note that we study these specialties (KAP, KHam, etc.) as wind-powered flight...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9500 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Work Kites (modern classic kite antenna methods)
  • Roger G4ROJ     replies:  He says he has been doing kite system aerial lifting for ham radio operations for "forty years" and that we are to "help" ourselves to his art and experience.       Thanks, Roger.                 

  • Review:
    In some scenes energy may be saved by using kite systems to lift aerials or antenna for sending or receiving distant signals.  The wind's energy is converted to the task of lifting the materials involved in the radio operations.  That is, the kinetic energy of the wind is converted to the potential energy of selected materials by use of kite systems.  Similar statements may apply to the sending or receiving of other radiations of the electromagnetic spectrum.   Avoiding the construction of towers by use of kite-lifted antenna may occur.   Heat, visible light, microwave, ...!      Make energy aloft in the kite systems; beam the energy to ground receivers?   Shine visible light over a work operation during the night?     Etc.

  • File:EM Spectrum Properties edit.svg
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9501 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Internet on one confined string
http://tinyurl.com/AirborneWindEnergyCompany103k 
"airborne wind energy company"
103,000 hits by Google search
July 7, 2013
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9502 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Gaylord Olson studied for some fast-motion transfer?
In the discussions on "fast motion transfer"
... perhaps Gaylord Olson's exploration may play some: 

FIG. 3  is a side elevation view of a driven element of the system of  FIG. 1 , in a high force configuration.

FIG. 4  is a side elevation view of a driven element of the system of  FIG. 1 , in a low force configuration.

FIG. 5  is a side elevation view of a driven element of the system of  FIG. 1 , with an alternative control line arrangement.

================================

Does he extend teachings beyond what was in the literature?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9503 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Jacob Felser, Jake Felser
Felser, Jacob



Finding him finally; it sometimes takes some while ... 
We barely noted him in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kitepatents/message/844    Tether patent application with Lind Damon Vander.
He does not get mentioned on the current Makani Power site.  Jake left Makani for some reason. 

A Feb 8, 2011, remark and study:
"Jake Felser, lead mechanical engineer, has previously interned at Makani Power" is a 2011 note regarding Iomys Labs LLC.
which describes some stay-up notes in Endurance Package which has in focus some tech that has been around for a long time, but the company is giving it their all to perfect: "Our technology offsets this leak rate by extracting hydrogen from condensed water vapor collected from the atmosphere ..."   Make hydrogen from water taken from the ambient air; inflate the LTA item with the hydrogen to reduce the downtime of the flight.   Etc.    


But today the site on Internet for http://iomys.com/   says "Hibernating"    
Is such stealth or some other cause?

What new game will there be when FFAWE and other flight systems just almost never have to come back to the ground? 
K3 and FFAWE have earmarks of being disruptive technologies.  
Raw speculation on my part:   Is Google [X] perhaps eating up the early branches of AWE?   ~JpF

One source: 
Company Name:IOMYS LABS, LLC

Status:Inactive
Filing Date:11/13/2009
Entity Type:Limited-Liability Company
File Number:602973463
Filing State:Washington (WA)
Company Age:3 Years, 8 Months

Principal Name:Jacob Felser 

Company Name:Iomys Labs, LLC

Status:InactiveFiling Date:11/13/2009

Entity Type:Limited-Liability CompanyFile Number:602973463

Filing State:Washington (WA)Registered Agent:Peter Reinhardt

"Jake Felser. Engineer / ... In the past, Jake worked on medical devices, hydrogen balloons, rocket ships, giant kites, and milk chillers. He has lived and worked in ..."
The page is long gone and not cached.  But the clip indicates some background for a future AWE-interested person. 

===================================
Wish list: 
... wish Jake would have introduced himself to this forum years ago ... 

What's up, Jake?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9504 From: dobosg001 Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: AWEC 2013

Hallo Everybody,

The 5th International Airborne Wind Energy Conference

AWEC 2013,

to be held in

Berlin,Germany, on September 10th/11th,2013.

You'llfind all the information about the conference at www.awec2013.de.


I am going to participatein the conference. If any of you intends to attend the event, Iwould much appreciate meeting you there. I ask you to send me anemail about it.

Lift!  Gábor
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9505 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: Jacob Felser, Jake Felser
Jake Felser in a special two-year adventure: 

My guess is that Jake will affect AWE 
.... AGAIN.   Just where or how he will show up
is anyone's guess. 

He might play in one of my wish arenas: Ever-up AWES
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9506 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Re: AWEC 2013
Gábor, 
         Have a good trip!   
While there, consider: 
1. Finding out why their map of of research centers and companies miss such as EnergyKiteSystems; KiteLab, Illwaco; KiteLab, Los Angeles; etc. yet still forward Magenn.      Story should be interesting!

2. Take some photos to share of the "spectacular" event on the day before the conference.   Thanks in advance.  

Best, 
JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9507 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Dr Dylan Thorpe
Dr Dylan Thorpe
RMIT University
2012 News at RMIT
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9508 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Chalmers University
What for AWE is occurring at Chalmers University?
Anyone?

Here is one corner, but I suspect such is not all: 

What else at Chalmers?
There is a connection with the paravane Minesto play: HERE. 

What else?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9509 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Estimation of the mechanical energy output of the kite wind generato
Estimation of the mechanical energy output of the kite wind generator 
October 2008. 

I. Argatova
P. Rautakorpi 
R. Silvennoinen
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9510 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: "Höhenwind" at Beuth
Machine translation from German, as I sift the school's online files briefly and incompletely:

Beuth Hochschule für Technik Berlin

July 2011
The research group "high altitude wind" (?machine translate of  "Höhenwind")
showed how the kinetic energy of controlled kites can be converted into electrical energy.

Somehow related to the project:  Dipl.-Ing. Susanne Wolff
============================
circa May 2011
Lectures in the house Grashof
Electricity from wind Learn how the kinetic energy of a controlled kites can be converted into electrical energy. The work of the research group "height wind project" for energy conversion are presented. 17.15 clock , Room C 20
=========================
  • The research group "level wind" - funded by the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) - Demonstrates how the kinetic energy of a controlled kites can be converted into electrical energy. At another station, the high-quality design and construction supports a kite station are shown.
  • ===============================
  • ite-altitude wind power plant
    Height wind turbines use the kite technology for energy. It shows the high-quality design and construction supports a kite Station.Due to the winds the kite fly at altitudes of 500 to 800 meters and are able to generate a very high potential energy. The energy carried by the carriage.
    DEMONSTRATION INFO STAND
  • ===============================
  • In 2013 September, the school will host a conference dedicated to kite energy matters. 
  • ===============================
Request: Someone give a rich report of all AWE at Beuth School of applied science.   

JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9511 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: SkySails, a paper in German
Robust study regarding SkySails is in German.   I have not translated it; maybe a translation is available. 
PDF document: HERE 
Title page: 
Wirtschafts- und Sozialwissenschaftliche Fakultät 
der Christian-Albrechts-Universität zu Kiel 
Fallstudienseminar: Fallstudien zum Technology Entrepreneurship 
Gründungs- und Innovationsmanagement 
Sky Sails - Zugdrachen als innovatives Windantriebssystem in der 
Schifffahrt 
Fallstudienseminar zum Entrepreneurship 
Prof. Dr. Achim Walter 
Abgabe 08.12.2011 
Masterstudiengang 
Betriebswirtschaftslehre

Dankers Friederike              1005198 
Kraft Benjamin                      1005158 
Schmidt Martin                     1005175 
Schwarzenberger Max       1005135 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9512 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Some text and photos about EnerKite
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9513 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/7/2013
Subject: Guido Luetsch Pitches NTS and its High-Altitude Wind Technology
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9514 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: Guido Luetsch Pitches NTS and its High-Altitude Wind Technology
Interesting plea caption at a video: 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9515 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: On May 23, 2012 on Otto's birthday: HighWind Conference

A 2012 event, but handy links to PDFs for the meeting section on the reached page:

Airborne Wind Energy Workshop
and HIGHWIND Scientific Advisory Board Meeting 

"Simulation, Optimization and Control of High-Altitude Wind Power Generators"
This two day public event has as its aim to present the current state of the art on Airborne Wind Energy Research, both in and outside of Leuven.
It is combined with the Scientific Advisory Board (SAB) Meeting of the ERC Project HIGHWIND.

Discussion, as ever, is open on any detail of that meeting.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9516 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Going lower than ground level for AWES groundstations?
Going lower than ground level or sea-surface for AWES groundstations?
Why ever do such? 

Consider bracing against hole walls. 
Consider visibility factors?
What else?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9517 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: "a leading company in airborne wind energy"
What does that mean?
"a leading company in airborne wind energy"

Options: 
1. Leading toward a great result?
2. Leading toward a future non-competitive result?
3. Leading in using up investors' funds?
4. Leading in exploration of concepts that have high potential to win over fossil fuels and direct-solar energy methods?
5. Leading in a niche category of limited scope?
6. Leading in enthusiasm?
7. Leading in the collection of technical papers published?
8. Leading in Internet search presence?
9. Leading in actions that move AWE forward to a sound future?
10. Leading in being placed under the carpet during money games?
11. Leading the way to some "the" winning method?
12. ??  (open for options)

The phrase in quotations in Google brings up just one company which is now owned by Google[X]. 
Is that one company leading to what?
I just put the phrase on the front page of this forum.  And on my site. Consider putting the phrase on the front page of your AWEsome site. 
"a leading company in airborne wind energy"
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9518 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Flock flying
Does this have something for tethered aviation?
Tether flocks of wings for advantages?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9519 From: Doug Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: The common flaw in all the "LCOE < ~.02USD per kWhr" claims
Problem #1) fixation on "kites" - no useful wind energy system uses kites or cloth sails of any kind, though they ALL started out that way. Then they improved. I'd say anyone using the word "kite" may be completely missing the point. "Kites" per are not necessary for AWE, and over-use of that word may reflect more of a quaint familiarity with 19th century technology and what hobbyists have grown to love, than a necessary or even desirable component for AWE. At this point I know I can expect an angry retort from Dave S. the kite-flyer, which is why I no longer post here much. What's the use? Either build it and fly it or let's all just shut up. This is getting very redundant... Tlk is cheap and everyone has an opinion, whether informed or not. So what?

2) FIxation on the word "crosswind" - oh you mean like surfers surf ACROSS the wave? Or like sailplanes go ACROSS the sky and not straight down? By the time you have to mention "crosswind" you KNOW you are talking to people without a clue - those whose wind energy contraptions travel WITH the wind (reducing relative wind speed), then have to retract AGAINST the wind - only for the lame.

3) Sure and lets extrapolate: flying cities supported by kites, and endless peripheral drivel - again I can expect a vehement denial of my vehement denial by Dave S.

Let me tell you how hard it is to make anything new happen: You cannot convince electric companies to even CONSIDER placing solar plants under power lines. And that is a pretty simple concept. They control sufficient acreage under the lines to provide all power to the USA, but never do so. They have endless excuses never to even LOOK at the possibility, meanwhile they want to put a 20-acre solar plant across the street from my house in a residential neighborhood, AND upgrade local ugly power lines to have 200-foot towers from today;s 100-foot towers. Why? To get power from new solar plants way out in the desert. Why locate them so far out instead of under power lines? Power companies don't want to consider anything that might be the least bit inconvenient or a nuisance for powerline workers. So they don;t even consider what was originally sold as a main reason that solar power was "good" (placement under existing lines) which would make upgrading the lines unnecessary.

So we learn, even if something SOUNDS COMPLETELY SENSIBLE you can never get it done, let alone replacing Fedex with kites. Hey I have a great related moronic idea: All those boats and ships burning fuel? Let's convert them to sailboats! And let's pretend it is a new idea! Let's pretend that ships were not ALL sailboats in the recent past and pretend we've INVENTED the notion that ships can SAIL! And that Dave S. and Wayne German will replace Fedex's flying pizza delivery service with a steam-punk series of clotheslines hanging from kites for delivery. Just ask Dave S., people will volunteer to fly them because it will be so cutting edge that they will do it just for the honor and the fun. Then you will wake up. :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9520 From: dave santos Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Answering Doug //Re: [AWES] Re: The common flaw in all the "LCOE <
Doug,
 
The problem as it seems to me is not your soured opinions as such, but your poor public presentation of them, and the failure to see how they also apply to you (as a top self-promoter of unlikely pet AWES schemes).
 
The original topic thread was specifically about how most known AWE economic projections ignore key aviation cost issues, like high cost of FAA regulatory compliance and aviation insurability. It was not at all about your vague disturbed animus against academic elitism. Nowhere in your unhappy ramblings in aviation-related threads do you note that you are the most willfully blind of all to AWE's stark aviation realities. 
 
Please start your own topic threads, rather than play an inept troll to topics you never directly address.  Most of all, share some tangible new progress of yours (as long claimed imminent), rather than only complaining and blaming others. For most of us, good progress in AWE is ongoing and unstoppable.
 
Not angry :)
 
daveS
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9521 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Ampyx rigid-winged kite system
This is a review note to balance part of the thrust of Doug's phrasings. 

A kite system may have a wing set where the wings are solid concrete.
The rigid wings of the kite system used by Ampyx exhibit a  choice of wing design for their kite system; their wing  is very rigid. 
Density or rigidity of a kite system's wings does not cause the system  to stop being a kite system. 
The motion of the wings of a kite system does not cause the system to stop being a kite system. 
Most AWES, not all, all kite systems; FFAWE has a couple of branches: 1. kite branch  2. non-kite branch. 

The FFAWE branch that uses kites still remain kites if their wings in their wing sets are of any rigidity or solidity. 
The FFAWE branch that has non-kite  aircraft are exampled by a few sorts: non-tethered sailplanes with RATS, LTA  non-tethered gliders with RATS,  rising LTA non-gliding balloons with RATS, etc. 

To do AWE:  kiting  or the non-kiting FFAWE branch of systems will be the course. 

Lift up by way of a lifter kite  a Vestas tri-blade with its generator and perhaps gearbox and even the tower detached from the ground, if wanted,  and we then get a kite system in the AWES space. 

Replacing tasks done ordinarily by fuel burning with the operation of a kite system is having a work kite; such is AWE domain. 
Doing tasks that could hardly be done except by way of kite systems is AWE domain. 

The better one functions in kite systems, the better chance one has at functioning in AWE of the tethered sort. 

Limp sails for wings in kite systems' wing sets comprise one branch of AWES wing forming. 
Semi-rigid wings in kite systems' wing sets comprise a branch of AWES wing forming.
Rigid and even solid wings in kite systems' wing sets comprise a branch of AWES wing forming; the wings may rotate or not.

A kite is cooperatobr complex of a wing set, tether set, and resistive set.  The tether set couples the one wing set with the resistive set; the roll of the wings at either end may change for purpose.  The resistive set itself may be a wing set of various qualities; perhaps a static sand anchor; perhaps a high L/D wing set, perhaps a fixed generator in a fixed-location groundstation, etc.    

For example, let a kite system be with an air-flying wing set of a well-controlled stack of air-flying wings; let the tethers from the air-wing set be coupled with a soil-plowing wing in such manner that the bridling of the plow has some substantial angle-of-attach controlling. Let the user be dominantly focused on the pattern of soil flying of the soil wing (the resistive set of the macro kite system); operator "flies" both the air wings and the soil wings in order to carve out selected patterns in the soil for certain purpose (art, ground prep for growing plants, giving rides to people over the soil, etc.).  The example kite system does not have to call out the rigidity quotient of the wings used to qualify as a kite system. 

Large lifting limp wings may hang or carry very rigid WECS; such still is a kite system. 
Large lifting rigid wings may hang or carry very limp-sailed WECS; such still is a kite system. 

Take a power-gutted DC-3 and set it gliding; equip that arrangement with an operating RAT and get the resulting non-kite AWES. 

What else?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9522 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Anyone for lifting Octo?
Multi-rotor artistic item could be tweaked to generate electricity while lifted by kite system: 

                             Octo 
Peace to all multi-rotor explorers ...

The shown tower could be replaced by a kiting system. 
The  toroidal ring that holds the blade hubs could be holding electric generators.
The system could double as decoration or entertainment. The blades could be visible-light-radiating devices. 
If the surfaces were solar-energy converters, then a compound energy-generating device with entertainment purpose could be done. 
Add the level of advertisement and earning could come from that direction also. Build it all with found trash and line up credit for doing green. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9523 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: From China to US ...
Set up traction kites to haul goods from China or Japan or Russia, etc. to the west coast of USA. 
Have the hauling involve some water turbines; charge batteries during the trip; or use the energy to make fuel or refine other chemicals from the sea water. Upon arriving, take out the made items, the hauled items, or the charged goods.

Then use the kites to haul other goods or people further east toward the east coast of USA.   Then use the wings for kite systems to haul things and people across the Atlantic to Europe.   Then use the wings to haul things and people across Europe and Asia ... all the way to the east coasts of China and Japan. Continue the cycle.  Let everyone bless everyone. Make, fly by kite, .... around and around and around ...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9524 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/8/2013
Subject: Re: From China to US ...
Many K3 world records
await adventurers.

Tethered aviation includes energy production, travel, and task fulfillment. 
Have fun describing a new record  specification. 

1. First to fly a human pilot from Venice, California, to Austin, Texas by kite system. 

2. First person or team to fly 10 kg  of paper mail from Los Angeles, California to North Carolina by way of kite system. 

3. First person or team to generate electricity  aloft using a SpiralAirfoil as stabilizing tail device to a large lifting kited wing set. 

4. First person or team  to kite an electricity-generating  set of ten HAWT  in one kite system while feeding a ground load with the aloft-generated electricity. 

5. First to live a year in a residential home that used electricity sourced only from kite-based energy. 

6. First person or team  to "Mothraize" a SuperTurbineFile:RegisteredTM.svg that generates electricity for ground loads. 

7.  First person to fly an electric-assisted foot-launched hang glider off flatland for a distance of 1 km where the electricity charge for the used batteries came strictly from kite-electricity generation. 

8.  ???
...
5,799.  ??
...

Feasible and interesting record descriptions are invited. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9525 From: roderickjosephread Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Re: On May 23, 2012 on Otto's birthday: HighWind Conference
Some excellent in depth reading in that link thanks Joe F.
clicking
16:00-17:00 The rough way of making visions fly â€" Lessons involuntarily learnt from controlling aircraft (Florian Holzapfel & Patrick Lauffs)pdf.png
takes you to

http://homes.esat.kuleuven.be/~highwind/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Holzapfel.pdf
 
where it says on page 62, after talking about the realities of physical failure and guarantees of airworthyness...
and after exhaustive classical model analysis

However, revolutionary new concepts like HAWE systems cannot build on
legacy experience

Certainly the whole HAWE field has not been considered in this paper.
The Makani model is featured. It's true that Makani necessarily has new levels of, and algorithms for, control.
Even still, I suggest Makani has a model with design lineage. The component parts can all be described classically.

Classical flight models don't have the potential failure mode of tethered wing flying down with powered propellers somehow also driving downward.
I doubt the Makani model can physically allow a mess up that badly. They're smart.
It's a control parameter coupling fundamentally early in the system state analysis cycle.

With altitude and fast computers the speed of analysis can (probably) identify and disregard faulting components and resort to available controls and models in time...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9526 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Rope swings
Leaving judgment suspended during incubation: 

Have objects or persons hanging in the atmosphere; have hang points for the rope, line, or cable anchored to something (bridge, powered aircraft, AWES, FFAWES, balloon, satellite, bird, flock of birds, sailplane, hang glider, etc.).    During the hanging operation the hung objects or persons will "kite" in some manner when the slightest of apparent breeze occurs for the object or persons.  Designing the shape of the hung objects or persons and the characteristics of the tethers will determine just what motions result in any particular apparent breeze. The resultant motions may satisfy some need (task, work, assignment, service, purpose, objective, application, energy conversion, ...). The motions of the hung object or persons and the motions of the involved tether set may play in the dynamic complex. Lang or Read might model these things. 

Here is a hung person; he hang from a long rope in the atmosphere; the rope's resistive anchor is a manned controlled balloon. The hung person fulfills the role of wing at the end of the rope; he and his clothing and gear form a "wing" that reacts with his local breeze, if any, as some motions occur slightly different from the drift of the balloon giving mostly calm.  Some swinging occurs.  Had the rope been longer, the balloon's drift would be distinct from the drift local to the hung human; such differentials would set up a breeze local to the hung human "wing" of the system.  The hung tethered "wing" could alter orientation to the apparent local breeze by applying muscle changes.    At some point the shown "wing" decides to let go of the tether to enter free glide; he then morphs his "clothing" shape into a complex that results in his body being the resistive set for a canopied free-flight gliding kite that he controls adjusting tethers in order to achieve a safe landing on soil. 

Rope swings of a thousand and more designs may find practical applications.   Some already exist. The future will hold other rope swings (kite systems) of interest.  Feel free to describe some rope swings. 

Are you "at the end of your rope" in some circumstance?  

Etc., in the spirit of Newton's "Etc."
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9527 From: roderickjosephread Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Re: On May 23, 2012 on Otto's birthday: HighWind Conference
When you take the statements from p99 and p102 of
The rough way of making visions fly â€" Lessons involuntarily learnt from controlling aircraft (Florian Holzapfel & Patrick Lauffs)

It is odd not to consider networks.
A network of kites can take a huge strike and still be flyable.

The Safety Assessment Process aims at answering the following
questions:
•What could go wrong in the system?
•What are the consequences? How severe are they?
•How safe does the system need to be?
•Can the proposed system design be expected to be as safe as it should be?
•Is the actually implemented system design as safe as it should be?
•Are assumptions made during the system design analysis actually valid?
•Can we trust our system to be as safe as we want it to be?
The Safety Assessment Process must be a combination of top-down
and bottom-up activities for a holistic approach to system safety!

(b) The design of each item of equipment, each system, and each installation must
be examined separately and in relationship to other aeroplane systems and
installations to determine if the aeroplane is dependent upon its function for
continued safe flight and landing... Each item of equipment, each system, and each installation identified by this
examination as one upon which the aeroplane is dependent for proper functioning to
ensure continued safe flight and landing, or whose failure would significantly reduce
the capability of the aeroplane or the ability of the crew to cope with adverse
operating conditions, must be designed to comply with the following additional
requirements:
(1) It must perform its intended function under any foreseeable operating
condition.
(2) When systems and associated components are considered separately and
in relation to other systems
â€"
(i)
The occurrence of any failure condition that would prevent the continued
safe flight and landing of the aeroplane must be extremely improbable
(ii)
The occurrence of any other failure condition that would significantly
reduce the capability of the aeroplane or the ability of the crew to cope
with adverse operating conditions must be improbable
.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9528 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Re: Alula Energy
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9529 From: roderickjosephread Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: robokite: open source kite control software repository and project d

http://code.google.com/p/robokite/ 

Introduction

This project is intended to provide :

-general documentation about kites (design, modeling, control, applications)

-documentation of the designs for the hardware of kite control systems

-source code of kite control system

-script to download dependencies

History

Project was started by Baptiste LABAT in 2013, ship control engineer who took a one year leave entrepreneurship to launch this project.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9530 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Jörg J. Buchholz
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9531 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Anurac

Dipl. Ing. Merlin Bungart
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9532 From: dave santos Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Berlin Conference Blues
The secretive pay-to-play AWE Consortium (AWEC) is rebounding from its fizzled conference last year. The Google-X acquisition of AWEC member, Makani Power, puts a new light on this contentious US C-6 corporation that claims to "unite the stakeholders of the industry into a single, focused voice". A congratulations is in order, for an affordable conference; which has been a sore issue. There will be some fine new contributors, but that's not quite enough.
 
As ever, AWEC secrecy hides wrongful action, in particular the imposition of mass-marketer Guido's Luetsch's authority over all of us. He is using his new power to favor chosen parties at AWEC2013, while enforcing a personally-motivated anti-AWEIA exclusion.* Whether he intends a flying event only for favored insiders is another key concern. BHWE is acting as a front for these acts. Where is fairness and democratic transparency?
 
As usual, the conference will attract a non-AWEC majority of "non-political" participants, but unquestioning compliance to low AWEC ethical norms is not truly neutral. Those who have never been to an AWE conference should go, to get to know as many wonderful folks as possible; but those who are well established, and care about open transparent governance can opt-out, and not support AWEC morally or financially, until reforms are made.
 
AWEC has long neglected publishing our conference presentations online, so non-participants may be out of luck. Last year's streaming media was a nice improvement, but with no archive. Would-be US streaming media followers may be left out by the time difference, unless an archive be created. These are key areas that AWEC must get right.
 
With old never-resolved concerns revived, Makani's responsibility for AWEC only grows as a central issue. Someday there will be a public accounting of AWEC's hidden legacy, its closed model, and so on. May AWEC's email archives someday become public, so the world can finally see into this curious black-box that has vexed many of us so.
 
 
 
* I withheld from abstract submission, in protest.
 


 
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9533 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Pavel Miodushevsky with Nov. 13, 2002, priority on ...
Publication numberEP1581743 B1
Publication typeGrant
Application numberEP20030772638
Publication dateJan 17, 2007
Filing dateOct 8, 2003
Priority dateNov 13, 2002
Also published asDE60311314D1, EP1581743A1,WO2004044418A1
InventorsPavel Miodushevsky
ApplicantPavel Miodushevsky
Referenced by (1), Classifications (16), Legal Events (32)

External Links: Espacenet, EP Register
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9534 From: dave santos Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Berlin Conference AWES Demo Confirmation
Enerkite, on its website- "Transparency, networking, solution-oriented processes and fair exchange are cornerstones of the way we work."
 
Nevertheless, Enerkite has apparently kept a rumored AWEC/BHWE secret, that only an exclusive list of insiders has been invited to fly at the Berlin conference, and that it is one of the favored parties.* But the unjustified secrecy is not perfect.
 
A public confirmation that an exclusive conference fly-in is really happening comes in a strange form, an open safety survey for a Berlin fly. Still missing is the list of secretly favored invitees. We may be seeing, in the confusion of hidden and open messages, a belated opening in response to serious AWEC business fairness concerns-
 
 

* Dr. Borman did not respond to requests for confirmation or denial.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9535 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Guangdong High-Altitude Wind Power Technology, LTD
Guangdong High-Altitude Wind Power Technology, LTD 
 Dr. Zhang Jianjun, general manager

Our folder has incomplete reach into the site. 
My fuzzy presentation will reward searches, I bet. 
Following Dr. Zhang Jianjun has proven to be a challenge. 
We have some notes in forum already, but the new effort 
reaches further.  
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9536 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/9/2013
Subject: Industry note
Google X acquires Makani Power for kite-like airborne wind turbines
A short artistic video made by a news agency. 
The narrative still hedges: "like a kite"   instead of "is a kite system."
After nearly 200 plus million dollars, the media still hedges on terms.

Google has its hands deep in conventional wind; the flygen hybrid (powered kite and power-generating kite) becomes just a part of the Google wind-power interests. Reportedly Makani Power, Inc. with its new owner may be American Wind Energy Association member. Any confirmation on this?

Our international body for kite energy and airborne wind-energy has chapters  AWEIA-US and AWEIA-Canada and AWEIA-Mexico for nascent member associating to effect North American kite-energy interests. Similar for Europe, Asia, South America, India, China, Australia, Japan, ...     Because of the momentum of conventional wind industry, and because conventional wind industry is not aviation while kite energy is aviation, it is suspected that AWE RAD may do best to put all its investments as an aviation sector actor.  Waiting inside the non-aviation wind power sector as just another wind power player is suspected to be a centuries-long process; differently, when AWE RAD as aviation demonstrates a new era, then AWE may simply be respected and incorporated into the world for itself.  Climbing the thousands of resistive mountains in the ground-hugging conventional structures may not be needed.  Just be in K3  the aviation wind energy sector. Grow AWES directly; there will be little need to "join" conventional wind that is so deeply invested in ground-hugging.    Vestas told me they have no need for the aviation package that I offered to them; I suspected such response; I expect Vestas and other ground-huggers to ... ground hug as long as they might.   AWE RAD need not care at all about how much ground hugging is being done; rather, a determined focus on K3  tethered aviation is such a broad new game that is starkly not playing the game ground-huggers are playing.      Be proud of our aviation foundation.  The resource mined by the ground huggers is as nothing compared to the fat, thick, stronger, and more consistent resource to be mined by AWES.  Two different ballparks; two different games; one is not aviation and the other is aviation.   When AWE demonstrates its winner, the fading of conventional will naturally occur; there is no need to fret either way.  Spend one's investments to persuade conventionals from within will end in just spinning "their" wheels; "they" will put out some "welcome" mats that are not flying carpets; "they" will tip their hat a bit, but keep doing what "they" know how to do; "they" are not aviators and will not be serving gold to aviators.       

Well, much of AWE will use much of COTS generators and pulleys and civil engineers, etc.  At some point those suppliers will knock on AWE company doors offering their wares. 

~JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9537 From: Hardensoft International Limited Date: 7/10/2013
Subject: Re: Industry note
Thanks, JoeF.
I would have loved to see my beloved Africa equally listed as AWEIA-Africa alongside other continents you took pains to express.
Further lifts.
JohnO
 President-protem, Airborne Wind Energy Industry Association (AWEIA International)
www.aweia.org
John Adeoye  Oyebanji   B.Sc. MCPN
Managing Consultant & CEO
Hardensoft International Limited
<Technologies new roman';">Lagos. Nigeria.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer and confidentiality note
This e-mail, its attachments and any rights attaching hereto are, and unless the content clearly indicates otherwise, remains the property of John Adeoye Oyebanji of Hardensoft International Limited, Lagos, Nigeria. 

It is confidential, private and intended for only the addressee.
Should you not be the addressee and receive this e-mail by mistake, kindly notify the sender, and delete this e-mail immediately.
Do not disclose or use it in any way. Views and opinions expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender unless clearly stated as those of some other.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 9538 From: Muzhichkov Date: 7/10/2013
Subject: A problem with energy transfer by longitudinal oscillations
Till this moment I thought, that longitudinal oscillations is the best way to transfer energy from kite to the earth. But obviously there are some problems with this method. First is that tether has elastic property. It can be solved with special very rope and principal possible. Anouther problem is more difficulte to solve. A rope from kite to earth has note direct form and it has mass (longe rope means heavie rope). Alternating tension first streighten a rope and then make an influence of the flywheel or line generator on the earth. Is somebody has such a problem and looked for decision ? By the way, where I can find anouther projects with rope longitudional oscillations?