Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES8931to8980 Page 76 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8931 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Re: Giant Kixelated LoadPath FlipWings (Mothra-FlipWing Hybrid)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8932 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Re: Wafting lever

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8933 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Re: Giant Kixelated LoadPath FlipWings (Mothra-FlipWing Hybrid)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8934 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Util LLC becomes first Company to Commercially License AWE CC IP

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8935 From: Hardensoft International Limited Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: Re: Util LLC becomes first Company to Commercially License AWE CC IP

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8936 From: Doug Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: AWEC Dishonesty? testing everything

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8937 From: Doug Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: How to raise ~8,000,000 USD from investors...(Magenn Claims)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8938 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Latest KiteLab Ilwaco Mishap Report

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8939 From: Doug Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: AWEC Dishonesty? - "test everything"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8940 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: Latest KiteLab Ilwaco Mishap Report

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8941 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: The Virtual AWE Super Team to "Test Everything" (including tarps)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8942 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: The Virtual AWE Super Team to "Test Everything" (including tarps

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8943 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Inhabited kite systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8944 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Test Everything? //Re: [AWES] Re: The Virtual AWE Super Team to "T

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8945 From: Doug Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Test Everything? //Re: [AWES] Re: The Virtual AWE Super Team to "T

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8946 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Moving on lines using wind turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8947 From: roderickjosephread Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Re: Inhabited kite systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8948 From: dave santos Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: HALT Testing Mothra1 (Highly Accelerated Lifecycle Testing)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8949 From: dave santos Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Commuting Kite-Planes for Offshore AWES Solutions

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8950 From: Pierre Benhaiem Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: AWES above towns?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8951 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: AWES above towns?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8952 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: COTS Drive-Train Spectrum (review and update)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8953 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Tether note: "Snap-proof" space tether

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8954 From: dave santos Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Hot-Swap & Hot-Repair of AWES Tethers //Re: [AWES] Tether note: "Sn

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8955 From: roderickjosephread Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Hot-Swap & Hot-Repair of AWES Wing Fabric

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8956 From: weimdad Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Bladeless wind turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8957 From: dave santos Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8958 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8959 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8960 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8961 From: Doug Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine - dateline: April 1

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8962 From: dave santos Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Notes toward a High-Altitude Kite Renaissance

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8963 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Fresh AWE participant and job opportunity

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8964 From: roderickjosephread Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: funny. Bladeless wind turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8965 From: dave santos Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Mothra1 Disassembly Final Report (Mothra Lives!)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8966 From: dave santos Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Toward an ultimate formal theory of classic kite autonomy and kite a

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8967 From: Andrew K Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8968 From: Doug Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8969 From: Doug Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: funny. Bladeless wind turbine

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8970 From: Doug Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Toward an ultimate formal theory of classic kite autonomy and ki

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8971 From: dave santos Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Toward an ultimate formal theory of classic kite autonomy and ki

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8972 From: dave santos Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: NPWs at TAE (NASA Power Wings at Texas AWE Encampment)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8973 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Toward an ultimate formal theory of classic kite autonomy and ki

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8974 From: dave santos Date: 4/6/2013
Subject: Google Search Rankings Abuse in Kite Energy?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8975 From: Doug Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Re: Toward an ultimate formal theory of classic kite autonomy and ki

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8976 From: Doug Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Re: Google Search Rankings Abuse in Kite Energy?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8977 From: dave santos Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Rebutting Forum Anti-Intellectualism //Re: [AWES] Re: Toward an ult

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8978 From: Doug Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Rebutting Forum Anti-Intellectualism //Re: [AWES] Re: Toward an ult

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8979 From: dave santos Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Re: Rebutting Forum Anti-Intellectualism //Re: [AWES] Re: Toward an

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8980 From: edoishi Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: East Coast AWE production tour



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8931 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Re: Giant Kixelated LoadPath FlipWings (Mothra-FlipWing Hybrid)
Note on term "flip wing"
     DaveS has a high focus in prior post on the type of flip wing that flips in one manner at the end of a tacking flight. 

Another use of  "flip wing" regards the airfoil that continuously flips about a central axis.

Others may expand on the term. 

~JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8932 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Re: Wafting lever
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8933 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Re: Giant Kixelated LoadPath FlipWings (Mothra-FlipWing Hybrid)
Joe,

Good Point- "Flip-Wing" does also fit backward looping AWE wings, which are not the current topic. 

Did we not disambiguate this? Perhaps my usage is off to what was agreed. "Membrane WingMill" is perhaps precise (as originally defined), but awkward; "Tacking Wing" is close, but backward looping hides a tack in the cycle, and perhaps should be considered a WingMill variant. 

Perhaps "Flapping Wing" or "FlapWing" is better/best, since it self-flaps just like a flag (but far more powerfully). 

The trouble with formalizing a standard Natural Language is that its always changing,

daveS

PS You were right about being careful with Hydro- and Hygro- (-Scopic).
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8934 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2013
Subject: Util LLC becomes first Company to Commercially License AWE CC IP

Util LLC has just set a historic precedent by paying a modest up-front license fee to secure production rights to a family of small AWES systems, based on a small mountain of novel KiteLab Group CC IP. KiteLab Group believes it has established solid end-to-end design concepts that do not infringe on anyone else's IP.

This first license represents a milestone for AWE CC IP, as a state-of-the-art alternative to a slow, expensive, often abusive, and onerous patent system. Anyone who contributes specific KiteLab Group CC IP that makes it into Util production, has a right to share in this compensation stream, as based on creator's moral rights and developed copyright law; the royalty amounts to be determined by open cooperative governance principles. Details will work out over time, depending on design specifics, market success, and so on. 

KiteLab Group gratefully applauds Util for this first step in securitization and monetization of AWE CC IP. Others are encouraged to uphold and follow this model, especially via open channels like the Kite Power Cooperative, the AWES Forum, and AWEIA advocacy. It is expected that all respectable AWE commercializations will ultimately embrace broad low-cost AWE CC IP and Patent Pool licenses, in proportion to the value of the ideas so covered. 

The AWE Patent Pool IP play still awaits critical mass, with perhaps half of our top patent holders in provisional support of a cooperative pool. We could use some financial and legal sweat-equity talent to help move things faster....
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8935 From: Hardensoft International Limited Date: 3/28/2013
Subject: Re: Util LLC becomes first Company to Commercially License AWE CC IP
Kudos, Util!
Congrats, KiteLab Group.
JohnO
 
John Adeoye  Oyebanji   B.Sc. MCPN
Managing Consultant & CEO
Hardensoft International Limited
<Technologies as those of some other.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8936 From: Doug Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: AWEC Dishonesty? testing everything
I agree serendipity is hard to predict.
But also experience in a given field tends to result in accumulated knowledge which is pertinent and useful and which cannot always be ignored just because we are seeking a new, higher level for the art.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8937 From: Doug Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: How to raise ~8,000,000 USD from investors...(Magenn Claims)
We need a far bigger audience.
Think of all the people who would love this!
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8938 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Latest KiteLab Ilwaco Mishap Report

Yesterday, a fine Gomberg Falcon Delta on its maiden-flight, in testing as a COTS train-kite for a World Record high-altitude attempt, went down over the Port Of Ilwaco, crashing into the port's dredge-spoils settling pond (yuck). It was being flown by Pilot, a semi-skilled kite-dog, and me (also semi-skilled).

As a first flight, the altitude was low, just over 100' ASL. The wind was moderate to light, with minor periodic disturbances at ~.02Hz. Suddenly the kite seemed to loose all wind support, and fluttered down faster than the reel and walking upwind combined could recover.

A glance at the upwind sky showed a stratus layer at perhaps 3000', deeply corrugated by gravity waves about 1km apart. Thus its probable that the earlier disturbances were wave bottom influences and the killer wave was perhaps a "rogue", a peak event created by overrunning or otherwise interfering waves trains. It as if a small frontal undertow suddenly negated the prevailing wind. This was not like the violent "washing machine" turbulence that breaking gravity waves create.

Gravity wave effects are increasingly being found to be critical common events that any AWES must tolerate. Altitude helps, with more recovery time. Fast reeling is a key tool. Machine sensing of these mostly invisble kite-killers will be an urgent requirement for future kite farms, since even a few seconds warning helps set up the save.

The dog got a good lesson, at one point covered dangerously in fine spectra-kiteline. I nearly slashed my hands relaunching from the pond. The kite was recovered in a pungent soiled condition, otherwise quite unharmed. It was rinsed by hose and drip dried, looking good as new. This was a humbling session, given the thousands of hours refining flying skills at this location; but it was also cool to spot a new species in the known zoo of turbulence modes.

The Falcon is a very fine 10' Delta, with a super-high flying angle, but skittish in dirty wind short-lined on UHMWPE. It seems low-stretch super-line has two quirks to allow for; it jerks the kite and concentrates shock-loads to an extent that line can break unexpectedly or the "kicks" can destabilize the kite. An elastic snubber or flexing pole are helpful countermeasures.

This mishap report is a dry-run for far more serious AWES mishaps, with a serious need for all of us to share the aviation safety lessons openly.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8939 From: Doug Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: AWEC Dishonesty? - "test everything"
To Dave S., hailing from the great state of Texas:
"Test Everything" - may be a great approach, but "everything"?
Isn't that a great excuse for endless failures? "Well we had to test EVERYTHING - how do we have any idea what will work?"
That is the whole point: Most of the "everything" you refer to is already long disproven, typical newbie misguided concepts. And most of the rest of "everything" has so many known bad characteristics as to be identifiable as a poor direction for exploration in advance.

I does help to have a valid direction or two, based on some knowledge, or an approach that makes sense. So I don't agree with "test everything". But go ahead - test "everything". Try flying some blue tarps for example. Then more. Do it for years.

What's more, actual testing of ideas means getting something actually working, not just the occasional foam & construction-paper wiggly thing-a-ma-jig with a two-second blurry video clip as final documentation. I think you're kidding yourself that you're making progress or testing anything meaningful.
But hey, at least building something is better than building nothing at all...

And as far as AWE charlatans robbing investors - it's really starting to dawn on me, the more I see it, that investors can be told almost anything - if they don't know better, they don't know better - period!

You could make a lot of money. Investors could easily believe a typical AWE "fight for ignorance"!

OK gotta get back to the real 3-D world. Today I have to straighten a wall in a house I'm working on. Dang one day it's skiing, the next it's construction. And the ski area is still open, but with limited slushy, muddy coverage. I gotta get AWE going! Geez Louise!
:)
Doug S.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8940 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: Latest KiteLab Ilwaco Mishap Report
If YOUR incident is missing from our folder, 
then feel free to update us: 

Safety in Energy Kite Systems, AWES

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8941 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: The Virtual AWE Super Team to "Test Everything" (including tarps)
Doug,

Of course KiteLab Group cannot possibly "Test Everything" in its own circle, and even prefers to find others to test its concepts (Ask Brooks).

Test Everything is the job of the entire AWE community as a virtual R&D Super Team. Each sub team's job is to test different ideas in the total concept space. So lets be glad that SkySails tests ship-kites, Makani tests E-VTOL, Ampyx high L/D, others test LTA, and so on. KiteLab does its part by filling gaps others ignore, even testing cheap tarps and rope, by what began as a noble Dave Culp conjecture. We naturally spread out to test every sort of idea. At some point soon, we must gather the best contenders for direct field comparison, and prove the top winners suited for early high production. The foundational job to Test Everything will be done.

For now, playing with small AWES toys in the most diverse style is just KiteLab Group covering your narrow focus, as your fellow team members. I must say, its sweet fooling with toys compared to slaving at bleeding-edge hi-tech complexity. Mothras, you must admit, is a pretty serious wing for lazy folks to make so easily. The despised tarp is really a modern wonder, made from woven HMWPE in a complex sandwich, for rather astounding strength and UV performance-to-price. They seem to offer the fastest payback, and are 100% recyclable. Common ropes are cheap and, properly handled, last several years of use. Architectural grade membranes with UHMWPE loadpaths are reserved for later production: Early testing has no need to get fancy.
 
In Conclusion- Even if it was desirable to stop "Test Everything", you can't stop us all, so just go merrily with the flow and do your SuperTurbine part well (be ready for cross-validation testing),

daveS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8942 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Re: The Virtual AWE Super Team to "Test Everything" (including tarps
Probably it is is clear in all camps: 
"everything" is too large to be tested. 
So, some looseness of language seems to be flying. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8943 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Inhabited kite systems
Inhabited kite systems come in a variety: 
= Early tow-launched gliders with pilot aboard
= Early tether-slung-pilot free-flight kite hang gliders, say in first decade of 1900s with Gustave Whitehead's device flown by Howard Booth. 
= Manned kiting for observations
= Aqua-kiting in various sorts
= Pilot-in-wing of kite system
= Pilot in kite system as the resistive-anchor of the kite system (say in sport kite hang gliders of the airframed sort and canopy sort)
= Rider on mid-tether of kite systems
= Human as the wing of a kite systems hung out to deflect either air or water

Here is a taste of human hung from wing airframe in kite systems having moving water boat as resistive set or anchor of kite system: 

(looks quite different from the kitesurfing where surfer is actually the resistive anchor without a split resistive set of that video where the resistive set of the kite system is bifurcated into tow boat and the hung pilot. Example of pilot-board as resistive set in a few modes.... land sand, water, and all-air FFAWE:  

Florida KiteSurfing           )

 

Kite or glider (actually kite system and also a glider, thus, a gliding kite system, instance of FFAWE; note the resistive set is inhabited and has its own "wing" physics):  Extreme snowkiting 

We are looking forward to living in the sky with the help of kiting systems, and not just for short periods of time!
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8944 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Test Everything? //Re: [AWES] Re: The Virtual AWE Super Team to "T
Joe wrote-

"Probably it is is clear in all camps: 
"everything" is too large to be tested. 
So, some looseness of language seems to be flying."


Maybe not, consider- 

Under various theories of infinite parallel universes, as currently believed by the preponderance of modern physicists, maybe everything in AWE is being tested, on this multi-universal scale. We just can't see most of this work at all, unless our technical imaginations are well developed.

If we are "covering-the-map" of possible designs, "everything" can be defined as an adequate finite subset of iconic designs in the space, without regard for the infinite minor variants we never directly test.

Pop usage standards allow "everything", as here used, as shorthand for "everything we can". This "looseness" can even be formalized under various systems (like fuzzy-logic, bayesian-certainty, etc.), if any rigor is wanting.

The highest virtue of "Test Everything" is literary brevity; the hyperbolic touch gives it "punch".

Fort's prior version was, like, "Test, test, test, test, and test again.", but who will think he is insisting on testing five times monotonically?


 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8945 From: Doug Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Test Everything? //Re: [AWES] Re: The Virtual AWE Super Team to "T
Yeah you could say:
"I want to grow corn"
and start trying one seed from every kind of plant,
to see which kind of plant gives off a seed that grows corn...
or
"I want to BREED a better corn plant"
and research slime molds and ESP, allegedly in that effort...
You could start with germs and try to get germs to grow into a plant with the idea you might create a corn plant, but you aren't allowed to use any corn genes because you think nothing of previous corn matters for your new corn cause you know it all. When you know nothing, that is when you must test everything.
That's like, when you want to drive to NY from L.A., just start driving aimlessly, in random directions. Maybe someday you'll happen to pass thru NY, right? Hey this is science! Gotta try EVERYTHING. The spirit of exploration! What if Lewis and Clark had insisted on having a map, right? Whatever you do, don't look at a map. No smartphones allowed.
I am thankful that everyone is so dumb so idiots like me can appear smart by comparison. (not a bad quote, if I do say so myself...)
:)
Doug S.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8946 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/29/2013
Subject: Moving on lines using wind turbine

WIND TURBINE POWERED LINE SUSPENDED DEVICE


Click image for full patent.      Discuss claims, etc. 
Walter P. Browning
William L. Dodge

Patent number: 3848835
Filing date: May 9, 1973
Issue date: Nov 1, 1974

Wind turbine powered line suspended device
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8947 From: roderickjosephread Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Re: Inhabited kite systems
Another evolution of skis and kites is Speed Flying




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8948 From: dave santos Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: HALT Testing Mothra1 (Highly Accelerated Lifecycle Testing)

 HALT Testing is a standard approach to increasing product reliability during development. In the case of AWE R&D, we can use standard environmental chambers speed material samples testing, but its also essential to exploit, on a system scale, extreme outdoor conditions and stressful operational conditions in order to accelerate degradation. Its important to actually neglect the kite and subject it to all sorts of harsh situations. Standard ropes and tarps are of course well tested by manufactuers, with billions of consumer use hours validating basic utility.

In Mothra1's case, the 300m2 kite was first subjected to Texas summer sun a few weeks, packed and shipped to the NW, was buried in salty sand, flew in a real gale, accidentally submerged in a creek flood, kept as a filthy soggy roll for a couple of months, then unrolled and exposed to sun and weather for another month, and is now being fully disassembled in order to reuse all the components in a larger Mothra3. The tortured components will be shuffled in next to new materials, for good reference data regarding how "derated" (strength-loss) the old rope and tarps are.

The Mothra testing process so far underscores that the rope/tarp/soft-shackle is a true "interchangeable parts" design that works well in the field (no assembly plant, no oversize shipping). Observable damage has been light, revealing select points to reinforce in redesign (stressed "B-Line" grommets- no total failure). Not a single element has been damaged beyond quick simple repair. We have validated the new consumer-grade "supertapes" work, but must be carefully burnished when applied (a short unburnished tape section failed). Its looking likely that all our components can serve well beyond economic payback (including assembly labor).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_accelerated_life_test
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8949 From: dave santos Date: 3/30/2013
Subject: Commuting Kite-Planes for Offshore AWES Solutions
These offshore ideas expand on earlier Forum discussion of onshore Energy-Aircraft that commute to kite-fields from production and maintenance facilities.

We define a kite-plane as a high performance rigid-wing aircraft that operates from a tether. They have been proposed as suitable for offshore AWES, but no one has explained how they would survive adverse conditions like storms, salt-vapor, and even sea-bird poop, or be maintained properly and economically at sea, in such extreme exposed conditions.

A set of solutions consistent with aviation science and practice is for offshore energy kite-planes to commute into place, in rhythm with good conditions, and regularly withdraw (perhaps even a few times a week) to a nearby onshore airport, landing conventionally, for constant inspections and easy hangar maintenance. Modern weather forecasting enables good predictability within the operational latency of aviation operations.

The kiteplanes could be towed back and forth by seatow or aerotow. They might even be based from an Energy-Aircraft-Carrier supporting maintenance and repair, that itself commutes to port for storms with the entire "flock". The kiteplanes might swoop and use a sort of "boat-hook" to pick up a floating tether, much as common banner towing is done. The kite-plane might best carry its flying-tether on a storage reel. All "wet" rigging infrastructure could withdraw below storms. Different flying platforms might deploy according to seasonal and frontal cycles.

There would be no need for massive landing-cradle buoys (taller than storm waves), shock-proof cradle landings, E-VTOL , and all associated design compromises.

CC BY NC SA
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8950 From: Pierre Benhaiem Date: 3/31/2013
Subject: AWES above towns?
New cities and new towers are built every year.Stationary AWES (not
aerobatic AWES,a not mobile tether being better for such an application)
could be implemented at the top of towers (a tower,an AWES,not a single
huge AWES for one city),that is not possible with enough great
conventional turbines which vibrations can be harmful.A way for searches
in AWE?

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8951 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: Re: AWES above towns?
Pierre,
 
The answer is Yes, we will someday fly AWES over populations, BUT on condition that all FAA/ICAO regulations and safety standards are met. KiteLab Group's aviation experts are all patiently optimistic. NextGen and UAS adoption are enabling far denser more complex use of airspace over the next decade. Specific AWES architectures are favored, but with endless options to discover.

The best document to understand the issues is TACO 1.0-

http://www.energykitesystems.net/CoopIP/TACOentry6Feb2012.html

daveS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8952 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2013
Subject: COTS Drive-Train Spectrum (review and update)
AWES generally involve mechanical transmissions on the ground. These can usually be Commercial-Off-The-Shelf (COTS) drive-trains derived from existing mass-production, to reduce engineering risk, and keep development and support cheap and simple. A range of early AWES product offerings are being based on COTS machinery.

Here is a rough spectrum of COTS drive-trains for high-volume products. Each fuzzy category overlaps its neighbor and loosely represents a sub-spectrum of light-to-heavy-duty versions. The numbers are "good-enough" guessimates. At the megascale, production is less diverse, and the largest most-unique machines are necessarily more customized. Standard elements at megascale are a few generators and engines, and "small parts" like shafting, drive-chains, gears, and so on, with less standard integration. Kite and Fuel-Engine Hybrids will be common.

This hardware is widely available as salvage, enabling cheap AWES R&D into fairly large scales-

Hand-Cranking  2-30W
Bike  10-800W
Scooter  300-10,000W
Motorcycle  5000-50,000W
Automobile   30,000-300,000
Light Truck   100,000-500,000
Semi-Truck   200,000-1,000,000W
Heavy Equipment  300,000-3,000,000W
Megascale Machinery  1,000,000-500,000,000W

A Note to Doug- Many engineering examples exist of megascale power transmission ( fan-out).
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8953 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Tether note: "Snap-proof" space tether
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8954 From: dave santos Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Hot-Swap & Hot-Repair of AWES Tethers //Re: [AWES] Tether note: "Sn
The Finnish space-tether work is based on the same principle as AWES multi-line kites being "statistically immune" to runaway.

For the ultimate in AWES tether reliability, imagine a simple capability to hotswap broken lines, which riggers do as a common practice in sailing and similar situations, but only KiteLab Group seems to envision in AWE. The essential requirement is to have redundant lines able to back-up failed lines. These "extra" lines serve as engineered safety-margin for all peak-load conditions.

A novel AWES field-capability would be to melt worn or broken kite line, and re-polymerize and braid it into new line, much as many spiders do. This could solve decay problems, like UV damage or micrometeorites hitting space tethers, and many comparable apps. In principle, a line-renewing carriage can restore a worn line by moving along it while maintaining working tension.

CC BY NC SA
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8955 From: roderickjosephread Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Hot-Swap & Hot-Repair of AWES Wing Fabric
Much like the last post... below.
A Mothra style lifter kite has loadpath arches which are more spaced apart toward their top.
The concentration of most damage to a tarp kixel unit will be at the eyes... corners and edges.

If large tarps start their life on top of an arch set,.. after becoming worn a tighter new tarp could be fitted in the start place underneath the old tarp.
The old tarp may be moved to a new position where it can be re hemmed and punched as a smaller shaped kixel unit.
Can the cut off scraps be melted and reused in situ?

As for live design of braiding... check out my brothers website "craft design online"
He has built an app which alows you to design custom braids in 3d.
I'll see if I can get him to add net repair and strength analysis function some day.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8956 From: weimdad Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Bladeless wind turbine
http://grist.org/climate-energy/invention-of-the-day-a-bladeless-wind-turbine/
Delft University of Technology
Now give it some lift and find the flaws.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8957 From: dave santos Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine
This seems to be an elaborate April Fool's Joke (I suspended an unrelated visionary AWES post yesterday, to avoid creating confusion).

Micro-turbulence would be a strong dispersive factor in this concept, but the underlying basis is the Kelvin Water Dropper electrostatic generator, which is a cool science demo...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_water_dropper
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8958 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine

The lift that you invited: 
 
Some lift for EWICON   ???
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8959 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine
Some lift for EWICON, as invited: 
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8960 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/2/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine
The lift you invited: 
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8961 From: Doug Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine - dateline: April 1
I came up with this April Fools wind energy joke a few years back on the real yahoo wind energy group where the discussion is all about overspeed protection since any idiot can make power.
Newbies often fall for this joke. Could such an idea work?
Have a day!
:)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8962 From: dave santos Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Notes toward a High-Altitude Kite Renaissance
Study continues toward a modern renaissance in high-altitude kite applications. Compared to the pioneering era a century ago, modern flights will apply far more elaborate instrumentation and stricter safety standards. Most of the performance improvement from advanced materials and designs will absorbed into higher reliability margins, but old world records should be well surpassed as a by-product of the technical progress. A particular KiteLab Group led project of new high-altitude kite flight is described here, with a specific goal of developing new enabling technology for AWES. This work will be in coordination with the World Kite Museum in Long Beach, consistent with its knowledge mission. Building public awareness about the Museum, technical kiting, and AWE will be strategic public-relations goals.

These notes represent current KiteLab Ilwaco thinking toward new high-altitude kiting: 

Long Beach, Washington, USA is a default demonstration flying site. Kite NOTAM and kite altitude work have been performed over many years, and the town welcomes the excitement. Air traffic is almost non-existent. The 25 mile beach is wide and often aligns with common wind (we need rough alignment). The tourist season will be avoided, ensuring empty beaches. Early NOTAM and Coast Guard coordination are planned. Any scheduling conflict with occasional Pacific rim flights that pass at high altitude will be carefully avoided.

We have a professional meteorologist on the team, Storm Waters, studying tactical weather pattern timing to have adequate wind at low altitudes, but not too much at high altitudes. It is supposed that a receding Low (approaching High) in Spring offers the best window. Storm intends to be on location for the record session.

Launching will be by pay-out winch in the rear of a moving truck, following hang-glider tow-launch best-practice. This will allow all line and kites to launch and reach high-altitude within about half and hour. Otherwise, from a fixed location, it might take hours to pay-out the kite train downwind and have it claw itself up fitfully. Landing will be by "walking down" (driving-down) the line with winch take-up. This is a far quicker and easier method than hauling a kite train in to an upwind anchor. A tricky part still to be worked out is reeling while perhaps hanking kites on-and-off the line, or somehow stowing the kites with the line.

There will be beach spotters along the operational track, which will also constitute a chase team, in case of breakaway. Radio telemetry will allow efficient tracking. The chase vehicles will be at least one car and one boat, since the downwind range is both land and water.

The Kite Train design is being reviewed by many top experts (Buesing, Gomberg, Jensen, Welty, Colbert, Synergy, etc.). The hardware will pass a quasi-formal airworthiness review by certified riggers. Lifter kites will be spaced about 300-600m apart. Dave Colbert's custom Delta-Conynes with carbon spars are proposed for the lower body of the train, with semi-customized carbon-sparred Gomberg Falcon Deltas higher. Conynes are natural train kites, but suffer a bit in L/D. The pure Delta is a super-kite, but need an added tether pass-thru feature for train-stack use. The top kite will have a long tail, and act as a pilot-kite. Each kite will have a gust "shock absorber" in the form of an elastic aft bridle. Additionally, elastic "snubbers" will damp shocks on the line.

The line supplier will depend on who offers the best discount or donation of top quality UHMWPE. CarlGu is proposing Hede Rope as a partner. Each stage of the kite train will ideally have a graded line optimal to that load case. As a train, the heaviest line is at the bottom, holding the total tension, while the top line is the thinnest, holding just the top kite. The line must be carefully inspected before use, and during pay-out and pay-in. No visible scuffs or nicks are allowable.

Altitude will be verified by multiple GPS readings along the train, from a data packet-switched radio network. It is supposed that 40,000 ASL can be reached, adding over a mile of altitude to the old records. The AKA Rules committee will review and approve the record design, and Guinness will accept that standard. Sport rocketry is a fine source of high-altitude operational experience directly applicable to high-altitude kites. Electronics payloads have been optimized for weight and power, with many choices at reasonable cost.

Sample GPS altitude telemetry supplier-

http://www.bigredbee.com/ 

Sample supplier of ground retrieval tracking for runaways-

http://www.walstonretrieval.com/main.htm
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8963 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/3/2013
Subject: Fresh AWE participant and job opportunity
Automatic Control Laboratory, EPFL
"EPFL is a top technical university, ranked 2nd for Engineering in Europe (2012), and is based in the Olympic Capital of Lausanne, a Swiss city well known for its high quality of life."
See job offer and description: 

-----------------------------------------------
Thanks from AWEIA international for note about the above to Upper Windpower

===========
We note some terms used:   
  • Autonomous Airborne Wind Energy project (A2WE)
  • fully autonomous, power-optimizing flight of an airborne generation system in variable weather conditions
  • kite-power testbed
  • real-time periodic nonlinear predictive control
  • JOB TYPE: Graduate fellowship / assistantship
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8964 From: roderickjosephread Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: funny. Bladeless wind turbine
Love this water dropper video. http://youtu.be/RQX8I9ZWtPQ 44 mins in is the water dropper.

How much electrical charge do you get in return for your gravitational potential? Suppose that depends on your design. 

Lifting water and waiting for it to drip wouldn't be efficient. even I can guess that.

hmmmm
I'm sure I could sketch up a mothra hosting an insulated, stretched, bipolar wet mesh front face ...
with a swap over attractor and collector mesh set stretched behind...
and it's going to dip up and down, just so, to keep the front face wet...
and the charge collected is going to be balanced with the current wind speed... by a kixel pixie.

A job at TU Delft, That's got to be fun.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8965 From: dave santos Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Mothra1 Disassembly Final Report (Mothra Lives!)

As reported, due to a flood accident, Mothra1 was dissassembled for drying (after over two months stored wet and dirty).  Two unskilled laborers succeeded in disassembling the 300m2 wing in a combined total of five hours (75USD labor cost). Future assembly of comparable kites should be about as fast (not including about 20 hours of parts fab).

All the parts are in good enough condition to be reused in a future World Record Largest Kite ( soft-shackle, just ask.

2KiteSam will now be replicating the central control section in kite fabric. The 6mil black plastic initial version served well for prototyping and now serves a validated full-scale pattern. Multiple control sections, based on this first one, are predicted to work well for larger Mothra versions, as standard units.

Intermediate-scale engineering-development Mothras will be flown at the Texas AWE Encampment, particularly to validate payload applications like lifitng WECS arrays and pioneering Airborne-Architecture.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8966 From: dave santos Date: 4/4/2013
Subject: Toward an ultimate formal theory of classic kite autonomy and kite a
 
This is not everybody's favorite AWES Forum topic- to study kites in light of advanced physics; so most of the progress is self-censored. Nevertheless, as mainstream physics can be seen relentlessly converging with views first posed on the Forum, its proper to give wide notice, for those few with an affinity for this analytic approach. The domain readings are not easy. Wikipedia is exploding with exotic new entries from the physics world. Even full-time specialists are hard-pressed to keep up. 

Lately, i had been pondering how to execute Lambda Calculus or embody a Universal Turing Machine from kite materials. Poking around for ideas led into new corners of physics. Note two things in the selected abstract (with link) below- The exciting concept of String-Net Condensate in condensed matter physics, and its relation to quantum computing. The autonomous classic kite and kite array have been proposed as a model cases, precisely along these lines.  Add Quantum Topology (of liquid-crystals) to our growing list of relevant concepts.

A "New State of Matter" as described in a previous New Scientist article (also linked below) describes fundamental analogues to our airborne-latticework "smart" mega-material conceptions. Keep in mind that our string-net condensates process phonons in a graviton field, but the general properties apply to all sorts of particles on a vast spectrum of scale.

==================================

Quantum computational tensor network on string-net condensate

Tomoyuki Morimae
Universit´e Paris-Est Marne-la-Vall´ee, 77454 Marne-la-Vall´ee Cedex 2, France
(Dated: September 28, 2011)

String-net condensate is a new class of materials which exhibits quantum topological order. In
order to answer the important question, “how useful is string-net condensate in quantum information processing?”, we consider the simplest example of string-net condensate, namely the Z2
gauge string-net condensate on the two-dimensional hexagonal lattice, and investigate possibilities
of universal measurement-based quantum computation on it by using the framework of quantum
computational tensor network. We show that universal measurement-based quantum computation
is possible by coupling two correlation space wires with a physical two-body interaction. We also
show that universal measurement-based quantum computation is possible solely with single-qubit
measurements if we consider a slightly modified version of the Z2 gauge string-net condensate on the
two-dimensional hexagonal lattice. These results suggest that even the simplest example of stringnet condensate is equipped with the correlation space that has the capacity for universal quantum
computation.


http://arxiv.org/pdf/1012.1000v2.pdf

-------------------------------------------------------------

Hot copy of an "old" (2007) New Scientist article-

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-03/ns-hrf031407.php
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8967 From: Andrew K Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine
Accio Energy is working on this concept.
<www.accioenergy.com/
On the plus side the lack of moving parts is good for reliability.
On the minus side you have to deal with very high voltages and the
power conditioning electronics will need to be developed.
Also the tether will need to handle higher voltages.

I think you could use this method to generate power on buildings since
there is no vibration.

Time will tell if they can make the electronics work.

Andrew King
King Technical Services
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8968 From: Doug Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Bladeless wind turbine
Yeah, well, until someone gets all the details worked out, it remains a perennial April Fools' joke. I won't hold my breath! Just the ring uses more material than blades would. But reality will hardly stop anyone from wasting their life and investors dollars!
:)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8969 From: Doug Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: funny. Bladeless wind turbine
Yeah you could re-invent and re-name laddermill, then never build one!
--- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, "roderickjosephread" <rod.read@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8970 From: Doug Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Toward an ultimate formal theory of classic kite autonomy and ki
I heard an interesting definition the other day:
"An intellectual is someone who uses more words than necessary, to say more than they understand".

--- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, dave santos <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8971 From: dave santos Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Toward an ultimate formal theory of classic kite autonomy and ki
Doug,

Here is a brief explanation of the excitement created by the deeper study of Kite Physics-

A passively-autonomous AWES can be formally understood as a coupled phonon-graviton automaton acting under quantum computational control. The phonon-graviton mass-energy interaction we've identified provides a quantum mechanical bridge, via the well-established phonon Grand Unification Theory (GUT) physics, between relativistic gravity and the other force carriers, thus amounting to a serious ToE ("Theory of Everything"), a long-standing Holy Grail in physics. 

Meanwhile, a wolf-pack of ambitious super-smart physicists is racing to find the correct ToE. They are recently noting that the phonon guage boson is a good model for the elusive graviton in quantum gravity. We seem first to note, on the AWES Forum, actual frequency-matched phonon-gravition interactions in our real-world experiments, in the optimized tuning of the opposed mass-accelerations and elasticities of our AWES. We tap the resulting resonance for kite energy. The driven pendulum can be seen as an even simpler case, in the form of the child's playground swing. Recall that Einstein's famous elevator was in principle driven by a tether, as indistinguishable from gravity-based acceleration. We are the masters of tether-science.

All sorts of standing questions seem answered by the new kite-enabled views. Since the phonon is the carrier of heat, the phonon-graviton interaction is consistent with entropic gravity and thermodynamics generally. Flight automation based on quantum topology is cutting-edge quantum-computer science. We are living in an intellectual revolution, with the toy kite as a real player. Our kite-derived insights could even be Nobel Physics, if they hold.

All this is far cooler than uncomprehending anti-intellectualism, or even retro-entabulation :)

daveS


PS Note that the inverse-corollary of the banal redneck sentiment you shared, minus excess wording, goes like this-
 
"An anti-intellectual uses less words than necessary, to say less than they understand."
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8972 From: dave santos Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: NPWs at TAE (NASA Power Wings at Texas AWE Encampment)

Ed Sapir has ordered a quiver of German Star brand NPWs for TAE, which starts in about three weeks. They will be evaluated as a possible price-performance leader for AWES use, given that NPWs serve in that role in kite traction sports. Its really rather odd that this important kite type has been neglected in AWE R&D, but short-lined NPWs are Hot in a new sport of "Street-Kiting" on skateboards taking root in Berlin.

AWE workcells will be a special focus of this encampment, using all kinds of kites to drive a variety of machines. TAE will be an ideal introduction to all kinds of low-complexity AWE methods, so please let Ed know soon if you plan to attend ( edoishi@yahoo.com ).
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8973 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/5/2013
Subject: Re: Toward an ultimate formal theory of classic kite autonomy and ki


W as words:well;W as Watt:better.

 

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8974 From: dave santos Date: 4/6/2013
Subject: Google Search Rankings Abuse in Kite Energy?
Google is under investigation around the world for the appearance that it manipulates search rankings to favor its own business interests. AWE is a prime example of this problem.

Search on Kite Energy or Airborne Wind Energy in the Google search engine and Makani Power tops the rankings. Google capitalized Makani and retains a major equity investment. Make the same search on Bing, and Makani Power falls deep down in the rankings, properly below general information like Wikipedia and Joe's amazingly comprehensive archives. What's going on here?

Google maintains a strict secrecy regarding its ranking processes, which includes human over-ride of the ranking algorithms. Its quite possible that a Google manager personally decided that Makani should top Google's search rankings. We may never get to know, but general answers should emerge from the many investigations into search-ranking abuse. If wrongful action is proven, non-Makani AWES developers may qualify to join class-action lawsuits against unfair Google business practices.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8975 From: Doug Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Re: Toward an ultimate formal theory of classic kite autonomy and ki
Thank you for making my point.
:)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8976 From: Doug Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Re: Google Search Rankings Abuse in Kite Energy?
Yeah I searched shopping for downhill skis. Within a day I start seeing ads for downhill skis on every site I visit. I click on a few videos on youtube and youtube starts suggesting videos on topics "chosen for me". That is nice to assume I am interested.
But here's where it gets funny: Let's say you were competing against a google team, but using google to do your research and shopping. They could see every component you searched for, every patent, every term, basically sit on your shoulder and follow your thinking. Hopefully their internal policies prevent this sort of targeted invasion of privacy. Then again most of us are telling everyone what we are thinking anyway.
I personally have more pressing problems to worry about but it is interesting to contemplate. Then again if Google thought I knew what I was doing they would probably just fund me like they had said they wanted to once. I think an organization that big is too ponderous to be nimble enough in any one niche, to take over every tech niche - that is not realistic. Big organizations thrive on the herd mentality hence funding the team making the most noise, making the most promises.
I say let Google have their fun manipulating rankings if they want: Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's - what nobody wants becomes worthless. You can't believe anything you read on the internet anyway, right?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8977 From: dave santos Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Rebutting Forum Anti-Intellectualism //Re: [AWES] Re: Toward an ult
Doug wrote- "Thank you for making my point."
 
Sorry, Doug, "your point" cannot be "made" as wished. Its hopeless to defend a backwards anti-intellectualism by an example depending on the Net, itself a glorious product of intellectualism (including the quantum physics modern computers are based on). Anti-intellectualism is not a sound judge of AWE physics. It is only posing fake problems in AWE, like too much overly-intellectual wordage. 

In AWE we mostly agree that "Highest ROI Wins". Another way of stating this is "Best Physics Wins", insofar as technology ROI is strongly driven by optimal Physics.

An pro-intellectual prediction for you (and Pierre as well)- The greatest AWE wattage over time will come from the best AWES physics, and the serious discussions that pioneer this best physics will not be found excessive in length or complexity,

daveS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8978 From: Doug Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Rebutting Forum Anti-Intellectualism //Re: [AWES] Re: Toward an ult
Well it was just a funny definition I heard. I don't think most people object to a true intellectual. It's posers using big words while not connecting the dots that are annoying.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8979 From: dave santos Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: Re: Rebutting Forum Anti-Intellectualism //Re: [AWES] Re: Toward an
Doug wrote- "I don't think most people object to a true intellectual. It's posers using big words while not connecting the dots that are annoying. "
 

Doug,

So lets be "true intellectuals" and connect those dots poseurs neglected. Exactly what "big words" have ever been used on the Forum without sufficiently connecting to AWE?

We can then help properly connect those words to AWE, and remove this particular cause for your annoyance.  If you can't identify any such unconnected big-words, or just don't want to see them connect, then perhaps you are the Forum Alpha-Poseur, and just prefer to stay annoyed :)

daveS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 8980 From: edoishi Date: 4/7/2013
Subject: East Coast AWE production tour
Special thanks to Robert Creighton & Andy Staugh at Windlift, Cristina Archer, Alexander Bolonkin, Shawn Thomas,  Dirk Gion, and Kristen Graf for their interviews during last week's whirlwind tour of the East Coast. Thanks also to Dave North for agreeing (pending NASA's ok)- we look forward to that...
More News: The Austin Film Society is now a fiscal sponsor for the film, allowing people to make tax deductible donations to the effort through their website . Thanks to Patrice of Util for making that happen...

Here's a link to the update Chase posted to Kickstarter:
East Coast Production Tour 

Hope to see folks soon in Austin at the Texas AWE Encampment..

-ed