So, this seems like a member of the angle-of-attack family of AWECS
employing ground gen and linear generator. The Savoius rotary kite with
device to rise and fall is a kite that rapidly is changing angle of
attack. In the same family of kites there are non-rotary kites that use
special angle-of-attack changers with various frequency.

During spring pull at ground linear generator coupled with low angle
of attach of lifter kite, energy is generated. During emphatic
high-lift angle of attack, the linear generator core is pulled up with
some loading of the spring. The system might pump water or make
electricity or run grinders or saws or load a flywheel's spin. Lines
from main tether can operate such systems without any change in length
of the main tether. Rotation of the wind invites rotation of the
ground generator or pump position or the main mooring position. A kite
arch might drop a hundred lines to working groundgens. Or a very
stable lifter kite that device to cycle AoA could be part of a farm of
such stable downwind oscillating systems.

JoeF

Has anyone the figures to report on Makani Power, Inc. ?

• In 2006  $10 million from Google.
• Then $5 million more from Google
• Then $3 million from ARPA-E in 2010.
• But something in this incomplete report seems missing.

Then   2010  One article in May states that Makani Power was seeking $25 million and that up to that point they had priorly gained $20 million.  Whether or not they have gained the new sought amount is not known to this page.  

The "20" is 2 more than the above tracked $18 million.

???? Does someone from Makani or elsewhere have the final figures?

JoeF

 

kPower, Inc. 
founded in 2007

Michael Breen
 Craig Varrichio 

• Advisors: Dave Culp,  Mitch Jacobson,  Steve Smaha
  
• 2010 
  
• Article, Sept. 2010 
• Home 
• WPC   Wind Power Capture system
• Groudgen

=================

JoeF

 

Apparently more properly with a space, but both are found:

 k Power, Inc.

Welcome     k Power, Inc.

Torque cable driving ground generator video by Italy-based company Skymill.

• http://www.skymill.it/en/prototype.html    Video
• Animation: http://www.skymill.it/en/animation.html

 

Disambiguation: (Some of us are hoping the two compies will sort to more distinct names; their tech focus is different. Italy Skymill is with torque tether. USA SkyMill Energy is with groundgen reel-in-and-out method.

Please distinguish between the two distinct companies:

Skymill  (based in Italy)

Skymill Energy (based in USA)   www.skymillenergy.com   with logo: SkyMill
Also our study folder: http://www.energykitesystems.net/0/SkyMillEnergy/index.html     who came first on the scene with "SkyMill" name.  The discussion about names was directly invited; we have not heard of any progress or settlement on the matter.  As both companies use a form of rotary kite, but with different functions, and as AWE will have international opportunities for both companies, maybe a shakeout on the naming might occur; however, the confusion might keep more talk going in their direction.  : )      Wish both adventures the best of lift!

 

Magnus effect, eh?
Magenn as an example?
OK I am wondering if this is considered a serious discussion?
OK let's complete the thought: How much power can the Magenn device output?
Do we have any data on this?
Is this a real wind energy discussion or a mere foray into fantasy?
You choose. Either we have some idea how much output to expect from this HIGHLY-publicized machine, or We cannot take it seriously.
Experience from the world of wind turbines says most such "new" designs start out scratching their heads, irritated that they have no good way to attach or run a generator, as though the generator is a peripheral annoyance rather than the heart of the system. Requests for output figures or data of any kind is brushed off as irrelevant. "We're expecting data soon to verify our projections" seemed to be the mantra for so many of these.
Anyway I think the Magnus effect is pretty limited - it's been well-known for decades and was tried in wind energy decades ago without a significant result.
Magnus: another false lead.
:)
Doug Selsam
Http://www.flyingwindturbine.com

For this thread's future, Alex presents more than just a possible incidental lifter choice of a Savonius kite, but the perhaps more important sketch of method of using bobbing kite coupled to ground linear generator.   Choices for the bobbing lifter may change  while keeping a focus on the bobbing, linear generator, and spring unshown return; the method gives a potential of nearly continuous power generation.  The oscillating shake in the Alex animation gave a functional outline of a method.

JoeF

JoeF,JohnO,DaveS,DougS,AlexM,DaveL and others,

Do you see a possibility EnergykiteSystems becomes a first autonomous
Center for AWE with conferences all the year, library, searches,
documentation,datas,eventual artistic aspects...?

PierreB

Amazing how simple this can be.
:)
Doug Selsam

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_in_my_backyard

I think "not in my back yard" - people must be intereseted in airbernes technologies. What is opinion of AWE-folks?

Alex Mu
awenergy.ru

Thanks for letting us know you're coming up to speed on the basics of wind energy, sorely lacking in this "industry" (how ironic is that?).
So you're realizing drag-based machines won't cut the mustard now - very good!
:)
I believe they did the best they could without just breaking down and adopting my actual workable published solutions.
But I maintain I have had a real, workable solution for AWE, published in the literature for several years now. All that's waiting is for those serious about this to get on board and help make it happen. I won't hold my breath on that. "If you want something done you gotta do it yourself". Lack of communication seems to be what's holding things up. For example a few months ago I was invited to the Techonomy 2010 conference, where I met Bill Gates, the principals of Kleiner Perkins, etc.
Results? Bill Gates dismissed Superturbine(R) with "I don't know anything about it.", though I read later that he favors AWE, and the guys from KP turned out to be just more newbies with impenetrably dense crania, wasting millions on another " professor crackpot" design for a terrestrially-based turbine that combines all the proven false avenues of turbine design into 1 machine.
To this day if you search high and low for ALL advanced turbine designs ever pursued by the "big labs" (big talkers) you'll find ZERO new ideas have been actually built and tried, despite millions and millions wasted.
I'm reminded of one time I was explaining how much our multi-rotor small turbines were multiplying the power of single-rotor turbines, and asked him if he wanted to come see the turbines and output on the instruments. He explained that he had to fly to Denmark to discuss the future of small wind. Why come see a home-grown turbine that gets 5 times the power when you could have a free trip to Europe.
Basically these guys know it's safe to keep pretending there is no solution at hand, since as long as nobody can find a solution, they can keep getting paid NOT to find one. Imagine if they were told they had to identify a true solution within a week or they would be fired. They would have to call me.
:)
Doug Selsam
Http://www.flyingwindturbine.com
Hey, how come I've got that domain?
You do the math!

Hi Pierre:
What exactly is energykitesystems again?
Where are they exactly?
Who are they exactly?
Do they have anything in the air?
Anything that has made any power?
Kites you say? Kites as opposed to, oh I don't know, wind turbine rotors?

What if the solution turns out NOT to involve kites per se, as "we" learn how wind energy really works? How 'bout flyingrotorwindenergy?
It would unlikely that anyone will ever have the heart and soul to put into organizing info to the level Joe Faust has. Unfortunately the average level of watered-down motivation will never suffice to replace true inspired devotion and dedication to the cause.

Doug Selsam
http://www.flyingwindturbine.com

"Oh, you mean all ya gotta do is fly a wind turbine? Who knew?"
"oh no Doug, let's try and make it more complicated and less efficient by NOT using wind turbine rotors! After all, what do wind turbines have to do with our pet fantasies to remake wind energy without ever having to learn the fundamentals thereof, worked out over 3000 years (that we know of)?"

Hi Doug,

"It would unlikely that anyone will ever have the heart and soul to put into organizing info to the level Joe Faust has."Yes,Joe Faust!

EnergyKitesystems is a part of AWE (Airborne Wind Energy).AWE and HAWE (High Altitude Wind Energy) are not exactly identical;AWE can also be for low altitude and a non-AWE can be also for (limited) high altitude (for example a light and high structure with light small rotors).

Joe Faust is identifying thousands ways:so both an industrial,teaching,and (why not) museum international center could be created in case of founding from several countries or privates.Working or not working concepts can be seen as works.

PierreB

 

 An updated page regarding a low TRL disruptive technology possible fit for NASA attention:

Home1       Your notes are welcome: Editor@UpperWindpower.com            Home2

Free-Flight AWE  
FFAWE

~no tether to ground~

Notes@EnergyKiteSystems.net  welcomes notes about this topic.
 

Joe Faust is an example of how all "the bureaucracies" combined cannot match the performance of even one single dedicated individual.
Why did Joe have to take his time to organize all the AWE info, when our tax dollars give organizations like NREL and ARPA-E millions and millions and millions of dollars to do specifically what Joe has done?

Exploring advanced wind energy concepts: show us even 1 example.
One unconventional machine built and tested. Show me 1.
Maybe NASA can do better.

What do you say, NASA? Wanna build a working system? Or would you rather build and test nothing like the rest?

Maybe for the torsion-method users:

Torsion cable or torsion tube rotates inside a lose chamber of a streamlined shroud.
The shroud does not know the tension of the flight. The shroud could play some for 
containing the shape of the tensioned torsion element.

Read here...

Zhu Ping Man (Unrestrained Bloody Ravine) wanted to learn the practice of butchering a dragon from Zhi Li Yi (Continuously Breaking Things Apart). He single handedly depleted the family coffers of a thousand gold pieces to pay for his lessons. After three years he'd perfected the technique but there wasn't a place to use his skills.

And in russian song about it...

Beauty is a dangerous power.

...I was rushed by kite
while others have not power...

...One Zhu stydied how to catch dragons
Throwed with a wind a way all money.
Pities that he no one met...

Alex Mu
awenergy.ru 

Dave Santos,Dave North,and all,

It seems there are one or two targets according to AWECS:

- Launching and recovering for all systems (except systems which operate
in jetstream during a single long time)

- Crosswind figures for some of them,that with a single configuration
(flygen,carousel,oscillating...),or two configurations (reel-out/in).

Question:the most difficult part seems (is not it?) to be launching and
recovering;so is the supplement of crosswind management really a so big
problem with regard to the first target?

So another question for Dave Santos:in the case where passive-control is
enough for flight management,how the management of launching and
recovering phases could be made without other control system (without
sensors and computer)?Human management?

PierreB

All are invited to send corrections, additions, comments, or suggestions

over the following DRAFT file:

http://www.energykitesystems.net/AWEentities/AWEstakeholdersNonIndividual.html

Do you know of companies, research centers, or organizations that are specifically attending to the growth of AWECS in whole or in part?

JoeF

Thanks for that. :)
That places Superturbine(R)-AWE at TRL 6: "Prototype Demonstration in Relevant Environment".
A 75-foot long driveshaft, suspended from helium balloons, with 25 3-foot diameter rotors trailing from a 3 kw generator on a mast was flown for 2 days at the conference center next to the airport at Oroville, CA.
Luckily it was not higher as we were almost shut down by the airport, concerned that we were above 50 feet height.

Superturbine(R) TRL 6 Movie:
See movie of this same Flying Superturbine(R) shot during a Popular Science Magazine photo shoot, on the GE Ecomagination Challenge website.
http://challenge.ecomagination.com/ct/ct_a_view_idea.bix?c=ideas&idea_id=A884332F-F2CC-4979-BB3F-C332169581D5
Same document:
http://tinyurl.com/ShockingSkySerpentSuperTurbine

The Superturbine(R) concept was originally demonstrated at a TRL of 7 under a California Energy Commission (CEC) Energy Innovation Small Grant (EISG) administered by the San Diego State University Foundation (SDSU Foundation).
CEC Final Report:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/2007publications/CEC-500-2007-111/CEC-500-2007-111.PDF
Same document:
http://tinyurl.com/CoaxialMultiRotor

Yes it's a lonely job developing the future of wind energy.
Doug Selsam
http://www.flyingwindturbine.com

Dragon Mesh

In one message from Dave
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AirborneWindEnergy/message/2710
was a mesh of small kites from Chine.
All elements of mesh have connections with earch other but also are more or less independent.
It gives stability to all system: a small wind changes don't change a position of all kites.

I think line generator is not so convinient because it can not launch kite and change in position in the sky.
So, bobbin is the best variant for it.

Alex Mu
awenergy.ru 

There are mechanical or hydraulic equivalents for many electronic controls, although a look at one of the last carburetors, with an attempt at emission controls, is discouraging.  

Dear Dave and others,

In order to keep most information on this forum up-to-date, I have to correct your previous statement:

... but a robowinch soon runs out of line to reel in & the kite ends up stuck at the winch. ... A spinning arm can land or launch a kite, but not raise it to altitude.

This is one of the main research topics at the Leuven kite group, the ability to give a kite sustained flight in zero wind, without moving the ground station around or using a propellor. K. Geebelen gave a presentation at AWEC2010 about the rotating arm launch and landing, and also talking about "reversed pumping". This very hard control problem would allow the kite to stay aloft in low to no winds.

Greetings,

Reinhart

 

High altitude wind power generation system by means of a flying kite

http://ci.nii.ac.jp/pdfthumbnail/11/1100/110004/110004057038.jpg    Tiny image: Best found. Anyone?

http://ci.nii.ac.jp/naid/110004057038/en/

 

All,

An "objective" analysis of methods can allow to better know for what use (or no use) and also improve classification of AWECS.Thank to complete that following (I will do a little later).

One of my system OrthoKite:

Advantages:

-high level of conversion with orthogonal transmission

-low parasitics forces

-possibility for reversed conversion system to take kites aloft without wind.

-scalability

-one configuration of flight

...

-with Bunch device:maximization of swept area without supplementary structure (but only stronger structure)

Disadvantages:

-important structure and strengths on the structure (even with no or low parasitic strenghts)

-tethers are X 2

-needed smoothing device

-Bunch is very difficult to implement

...

Reel-out/in

Advantages:

-No or low strenths on structure

-simple structure

-low parasitic strenghs

-scalability

...

Disadvantages:

-two configurations of flight

-non continuous power

-needed smoothing device

...

Fly Gen:

Advantages:

-simplicity of flight configuration

-high spinning so small generators

...

Disadvantages:

-electrical losses

-generators and heavy parts aloft

...

Tripod ?

Others systems?

PierreB

Klimbing Kite, Climbing Kite, ClimbingKite, KlimbingKite

The following is the initial contents of a growing file that will evolve at
http://energykitesystems.net/ClimbingKite/index.html

 

ClimbingKite, KlimbingKite™, Klimbing Kite™         File started January 25, 2011 Climbing Kites in Calm  (CKC)

Consider being restricted to ground operations with a circle of , say, 5 m. Have all operations that are ground-touching be done only within that circle.  Assume no wind and no thermals, like quiet calm indoor air. Without pilot leaving the circle and starting with kite in the circle also, fly the kite to a record altitude.  Send in results and specifications for publication in Upper Windpower.  DRAFT:   Rules include (suggestions for rules are invited): Operate in full calm. Have no benefit of thermals. This atmospheric condition may have to be sought carefully to avoid wind or thermal lift assistance. Some special conditions and some mornings before sun rise come to mind. Large indoor arenas come to mind.  Neutral observers would be great to sign off on the success.   Have no powered motor on the kite's lifting body or its tether, except such is allowed at the mooring point within the restricted circle.   Power the climb after initial toss only by tether controls.   No beam or rod or stick or arm may go outside the operating ground circle.   Beams or rod or stick or arm may reach skyward as much as the start circle's diameter, in suggested 5 m circle, the skyward reach would be 5 m.   Robot may jerk, rotate, dance, or whatever. Same for human pilot.   Have no blowers on the ground or air.   The tether may not conduct electricity during the climbing activity.   Have no initial stored energy in the lifting body or tether.   Do not employ light or solar radiation to power any motor in the system.    The human pilot or ground robot may operate the tether. An initial toss by hand or robot may launch the lifting body with some tether. Following the initial toss, the human pilot or robot may operate the tether to affect the behavior of the lifting body of the kite system.  The robot toss may not exceed the force that a human pilot could exert (this is to avoid robot canons of unlimited shooting power, etc. )   Publish specifications for success. Tell the net altitude above level of start circle reached. Tell the length of tether. Tell the time it took from start to peak altitude. Specify kite and tether materials and design. As possible couple with an engineer or physicist for a technical analysis of the flight pattern and cause of success reached.  Aim to describe the theoretical limits of altitude AGL achievable by the specified system. Express how such a system might be used to launch AWECS or to maintain AWECS aloft in calms or wind direction reversals.   Show video on YouTube.       Establish world records for a particular specification. We are looking for prizes to award.

Consider the theoretical limits of applying the matters found in the following study of one method: "Kurt Geebelen and Joris Gilis did their master thesis on this topic : http://www.kuleuven.be/optec/files/Geebelen2010.pdf As far as I know, that is the only really interesting document about that (so far ;-); the Leuven team is working hard !               Greetings from Leuven"  ~Reinhart   What are known world records for such an activity at this time?   What are the several tactics?   We will accumulate community notes in this folder.

Response has brought some additional clauses to the  DRAFT rules:

Changes in rules since initial announcement:

• The lifting body may be tethered by multiple lines going to the start circle.
  
  

• The kite system employed may not employ lighter-than-air gases and may not depend on solar-heated air as lifter.
  
  

• The operation has the lifting body ever off the ground during the trial.
  
  
• The tether may not touch the ground during the trial.

High Altitude Wind Power by Dave North:p.7: phase 2:2 to 4 M$.

PierreB

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?WO=2010053389

Welcome  SVENSSON, lngemar

and PAWLAK, Zdzis³aw.

http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/images4/PCT-PAGES/2010/192010/10053389/10053389.pdf

ARPA-E is pleased to host the Energy Technology Innovation Showcase Feb. 28-March1, 2011.

For one AWEIA member:

Alteros Energy

• http://www.altaerosenergies.com/

AWE else at event?

There will be opportunites that feature products manufactured by using AWECS energy. 

Sewing, grinding, driving tools, sawing, etc.   KiteLab years ago  made a telephone call to CEO of KiteTug using energy derived from a KiteMotor .  All are invited to post other actual practical actions accomplished with kitricity or other forms of energy derived from AWECS. Ultimately this thread may post that a full residential home is powered from kitricity. Then villages.   The a full manufacturing plant.  A car run 100% from AWECS-won energy!  Maybe start with a dedicated electric bicycle  AWECS charged regularly.  Kites sewn by machines run with kitricity or direct drive?

By the way, idea comes from

Canopy Formation 

Several years ago we were told this country would shift to new clean energy technologies, lest we have a peak oil recession.
I brought the Superturbine(R) to NREL etc.
We could have perhaps sidestepped peak oil by actually expanding clean energy using this new wind technology that multiplies output of a wind turbine many times over, lowering costs and expanding range, but they were too busy, and literally did not have a "department of trying new things".
A slight oversight in organizational structure I guess.
So now, failing to implement Superturbine(R) - no wait, failing to even TRY it, or try anything else...
How is it possible to get funded for millions as the "go-to" agency for the whole world, and over decades, manage to actually try nothing truly new, and nobody notices?
Well it's the nature of bureaucracy I guess.
The pronouncements are made with great fanfare ( like reading about NASA "pursuing" AWE) but then the programs start to water down into blahblahblah:
"let's do a survey" , "let's fly to a conference" , "I know, let's "survey the space" concentrating on those with big budgets and bigger lies, with machines that make no sense!". "Oh the heck with it, let's just announce that there's no point looking cuz wind energy is too insignificant and redundant and the Chinese will probably dominate anyway since they demonstrate that they know nothing by promoting drag-based designs!". Mmm hmmm, that's where we find ourselves.
Meanwhile, the country continues in the "ignore Superturbine(R)" recession - all those "green jobs" stretching Superturbine(R) across canyons and the plains of the Midwest, as well as offshore - never happened.
Why? Because in the new world of blogging we have come to believe that talk is a substitute for action, and that mere pronouncements of future action with no followup is the way to results.
They forgot the one key element in the plan to tap the innovations of U.S. Citizens: they forgot to actually DO it. They thought just "saying it" was enough. No mechanism to find the solutions out there ever took place. All they did is issue RFP's, then hire the wrong people to reject almost all of them, with no proactive search, and no program if prototype building ever taking place at all.
Reminds me of the drink who couldn't find his keys because he forgot to look and passed out - forget only looking under the streetlamp, they forgot to look at all!
The solutions are here and they are not being developed fast enough.
Now as NASA burns through their first hundred grand, announced with great fanfare, with pronouncements that they will defend against people who will claim they are non- prototype-building, let's see what the follow-through is.
I guess nobody from NASA was in attendance at the FIRST AWE conference, but I did demonstrate in a crude way that one could place a lift-based plug-and-play, set-it-and-forget-it wind energy generator into the air, using 50 airfoils all passively guided in circular paths using no computers - for somewhere near a thousand bucks.
So as you beat your heads against the wall, and spend all your capital lustening to those who don't know, remember if you want to break the mold and really get something flying now that works, I am here for you.
Doug Selsam