Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                                    AWES27909to27961
 Page 8 of 9.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27909 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: SUPERTURBINE®

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27910 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Proof of practical Electrical Generation from "Pumping"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27911 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Power Kites according to Ground Handling, Launching, and Landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27912 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27913 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27914 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: "Any kite is a kite system and is a system with a conversion sys

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27915 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27916 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27917 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27918 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27919 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27920 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27921 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27922 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27923 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27924 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27925 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27926 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27927 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27928 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27929 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27932 From: dougselsam Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Proof of practical Electrical Generation from "Pumping"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27933 From: dougselsam Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27935 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Proof of practical Electrical Generation from "Pumping"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27936 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: R&D Safety Advisory- KiteBoarding "Lift Accidents" & KiteLoop Recove

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27937 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27938 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27939 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Unique Signatures of Each Specific AWES or Energy-kite System

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27940 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27941 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27942 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27943 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27944 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27945 From: dave santos Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27946 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27947 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27948 From: dave santos Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27949 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27950 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27951 From: dave santos Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27952 From: dave santos Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Inuit Windsled featured, best technical video so far

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27953 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/27/2019
Subject: Re: Unique Signatures of Each Specific AWES or Energy-kite System

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27954 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/28/2019
Subject: Re: The power consumption as the Magnus Effect Balloon or the Sharp

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27955 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/28/2019
Subject: Re: Unique Signatures of Each Specific AWES or Energy-kite System

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27956 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/28/2019
Subject: Re: Unique Signatures of Each Specific AWES or Energy-kite System

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27957 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/28/2019
Subject: Re: The power consumption as the Magnus Effect Balloon or the Sharp

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27958 From: dave santos Date: 7/28/2019
Subject: Re: Unique Signatures of Each Specific AWES or Energy-kite System

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27959 From: dave santos Date: 7/28/2019
Subject: The latest power-kite performance revolution- Drift Capability

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27960 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/28/2019
Subject: Re: Musical AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27961 From: Peter Sharp Date: 7/28/2019
Subject: Re: The power consumption as the Magnus Effect Balloon or the Sharp



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27909 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: SUPERTURBINE®
Gordon,

Its the details that are unresolved. How exactly do you launch and land? Could anyone with a ax walk around and cut your tethers? Then what happens, does a shaft of blades drag for miles?

You have to think like a "professional pessimist" to identify and solve these issues. We can agree its possible, if not whether anyone will try.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27910 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Proof of practical Electrical Generation from "Pumping"
Doug, research is not "doing nothing". If was as simple as you claim, you would have done it.



 

The real question in my mind is, with such a simple concept, why are you doing nothing about it?



---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27911 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Power Kites according to Ground Handling, Launching, and Landing
Doug, Sorting out operational details of power kites is not "over-generalizing". Go ahead and get more specific if you want.



 

The strange thing to me is this never-ending attempt to feign expertise in AWE by over-generalizing to the point of saying nothing, while pretending to be saying something.  "Success in AWE" is talked about as some sort of abstract concept rather than acknowledging 12 years of failure to come up with a single promising path.  Others make power.  K-whatever does not.  Why would anyone even listen to this drivel?   There is no reason to act as though AWE is still hypothetical.  There are unlimited ways to make power from the wind, unlimited ways to do AWE, and plenty of people doing it.  Not that hard, really.  Whether anyone can come up with a way to take AWE past the "curiosity" or "demo" stage, to form an economical energy solution is another question.  But sitting around with your wheelbarrow while racing cars zoom past, acting as though race cars are only a hypothetical concept, is just a way of pretending your wheelbarrow is a race car.
(Prediction: JoeF with unlimited time on his hands starts googling "wheelbarrow races" and looking up Wikipedia-type definitions of "wheelbarrow" to try and counter my point...)


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27912 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
Dave you have not the level allowing you to give your opinions whatever the topic. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27913 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
Pierre, The topic is the Mono 2.0 and I am reasonably qualified to give an on-topic opinion of its design, but would like to fly one so as confirm or correct predictions.



 

Dave you have not the level allowing you to give your opinions whatever the topic. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27914 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: "Any kite is a kite system and is a system with a conversion sys
Doug, the effort is a friendly one toward framing a field of inquiry. What one does with a frame is the next chapter.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27915 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
Dave, you express several times an opinion about music in Mono topic, showing you don't understand your own topic.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27916 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
Pierre, the music notes show a profound and rich understanding of the topic.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27917 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
Pierre, all members have sufficient level to give their opinions. Please respect our members' status to express their opinions toward RAD matters.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27918 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
DaveS you are off-topic.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27919 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
DaveS,  "toward RAD matters" don't include considerations about music, excepted if you relate some concert of which electricity is provided by an AWES that Doug is still waiting.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27920 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
Pierre, AWES do make music, even your flatten and rotating reel. Hearing the music is a cool matter. I hope you hear the music of each AWES you come upon.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27921 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
JoeF and DaveS,

Leave the music alone, it doesn’t need you.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27922 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
Correction of spelling: "even your flatten and rotating reel"
should have been 
"even your flygen and rotating reel"
Thank you, for your moment on this correction. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27923 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
Subject: Musical AWE
Attachments :
    AWE is musical. Music is a human universal, a moral right. Kite rights too; all our rights stand together. Pierre even played piano at an AWEC conference, which other technical conferences decline; that's just how musical we are. Then there are all the traditional music kite traditions, like SE Asian polyphonic kites singing like angels from chaos.

    The Mono 2.0 and similar kites can develop high speed motion while carrying musical wind instruments. Controlled surging of many power kites with diverse instruments could perform in-concert. With the precision flying of Rev pros, rather amazing music is surely possible. 

    Who ever heard such a thing? Let us not strangle this new kite music in its cradle. The Mono 2.0 here inspires a grand new musical tradition that does not need power grids and electrical amplification. We will walk in AWE under orchestras of kites. We will fly through live music in 3D.


    Inline image


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    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27924 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
    We will keep music in AWES, as music is part of the resultant of energy conversions that occur in all AWES.  Appreciating the various musical melodies of the Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers is on topic. The concert of that wing's full story may be appreciated or not. Certainly the full tones potentially radiating from the topic wing have yet to be heard by RAD-seeking workers.  Those wanting to play that wing in energy conversion actions may or may hear all the fine tunes being played; some people will be tone deaf, others will hear some tones but not others. For sure, let us not stifle those who have the talent and gift to hear at least some of the vibrations of the topic's wing.    
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27925 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Music is not a right. Music is an art. 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27926 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27927 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    I am proud to have played piano at AWECBerlin conference. The only thing that "technical conferences decline", comprising AWECBerlin 2013, are Santos' "technical" submissions. After that Santos cries all days about some imaginary conspiracy from AWEC.

    Santos is a kind of alchemist turning gold into lead. That concerns AWE, kite, music and so on. He will never be accepted by official AWE circles, although he makes all for this. So Santos vomits his jealousy all the time. 

    Santos should try to use his bad feelings then convert them in order to find some workable AWE plan. 
     
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27928 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Music and AWE are both a Right and an Art. Long live Rousseau! Beethoven would never have said. "music is not a right".

    Mo Tzu's original liberational kite culture was art and right as one. In out time, the East German Punk Rock scene brought down the Berlin Wall. The officials did not see music as a right, nor the art of the Punks. Jazz and Blues have similar art-right stories. 

    The French invented Artist's Moral Rights.





     

    Music is not a right. Music is an art. 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27929 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
    Great point JoeF. Every kite sings in its own unique voice a special song based on its unique conditions. We are learning to appreciate this music.



     

    We will keep music in AWES, as music is part of the resultant of energy conversions that occur in all AWES.  Appreciating the various musical melodies of the Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers is on topic. The concert of that wing's full story may be appreciated or not. Certainly the full tones potentially radiating from the topic wing have yet to be heard by RAD-seeking workers.  Those wanting to play that wing in energy conversion actions may or may hear all the fine tunes being played; some people will be tone deaf, others will hear some tones but not others. For sure, let us not stifle those who have the talent and gift to hear at least some of the vibrations of the topic's wing.    
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27932 From: dougselsam Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: Re: Proof of practical Electrical Generation from "Pumping"
    For success, you have to at least try.
    It requires building something that gets the power to the ground.
    Just flying kites is not going to get you there.


    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

    The real question in my mind is, with such a simple concept, why are you doing nothing about it?



    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@... #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879yiv8010605329ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1022681003 #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879 #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879yiv8010605329 #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879yiv8010605329ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-1022681003 #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879 #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879yiv8010605329 #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879yiv8010605329ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879yiv8010605329hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-1022681003 #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879 #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879yiv8010605329 #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879yiv8010605329ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-1022681003ygrps-yiv-86228879yiv8010605329ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-1022681003 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    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27933 From: dougselsam Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
    So many years of empty talk of the power of power-kites.
    It was known that kites can fly.
    That has always been the purpose of a kite.
    Show the world how to generate useful amounts of power with it, and get that power to the ground!.


    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27935 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: Re: Proof of practical Electrical Generation from "Pumping"
    Doug,

    One huge factor you get wrong is safety, from willful ignorance. To scale up AWE even to 10kW is dangerous. I like wrangling with kites, but do not intend safety shortcuts to satisfy your impatience. Goading developers to "try" without regard for danger is unhelpful. Chill-out, the predicted 2030 industrial timeframe is still a decade away. Decide then who did not succeed. Many of us are trying as best we can, and so should you, unless you have given up already. 

    Consider your own AWE as not trying much, which you are best able to judge. A lot of folks have complex responsibilities in life to allow for, rather than ever make you happy with their best effort. The rest of are happy for anyone who adds technical art to AWE.

    Extreme Kitesurfing Accidents - Frightening






     

    For success, you have to at least try.
    It requires building something that gets the power to the ground.
    Just flying kites is not going to get you there.


    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

    The real question in my mind is, with such a simple concept, why are you doing nothing about it?



    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27936 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: R&D Safety Advisory- KiteBoarding "Lift Accidents" & KiteLoop Recove
    Anyone actually working in Power Kite AWE knows the hazards are terrifying. Do it long enough, or just get unlucky, and you can be sucked into the sky. Such incidents are now called "Lift Accidents", and there is now a countermeasure based on kite loops-
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27937 From: dave santos Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: Re: Mono 2.0 SS Power kite with Carbon Whiskers
    Only Doug seems to despair over "the power of power-kites", objectively not just "empty talk". The Power Kite rules AWE by actual flight, like pulling teams of explorers across oceans and ice caps by wind, as just one aspect.

    The Mono 2.0 itself is less talk than Doug commenting on its topic. Let him fly one, and then talk.



     

    So many years of empty talk of the power of power-kites.
    It was known that kites can fly.
    That has always been the purpose of a kite.
    Show the world how to generate useful amounts of power with it, and get that power to the ground!.


    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27938 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/26/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    My posts that comprised a quote from Michel Audiard as a reply to the invocation of celebrities with unverified intentions were deleted two times by the moderators. Could it be that you (DaveS and JoeF) feel targeted by his very famous quote?

    Perhaps Michel Audiard is in your black list.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27939 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Unique Signatures of Each Specific AWES or Energy-kite System
    Unique Signatures of Each Specific AWES or Energy-Kite System
    • Radiation signature?
    • Sound signature.  Listen, what does one hear when near or far from a given AWES? Is it music to some people? Is it a nuisance noisy to some people?  Also, the sound of the solids affected by the AWES?  
    • Radio frequencies ?
    • Light signature ?
    • Social signature ?
    • Economic signature ?
    • Environmental signature ?
    • Signature on radar screens ?
    • Wake signature ?
    • Profit signature ?
    • Magnetic signature ?
    • Heat signature ?
    • Benefit signature ?
    • Cost signature ?
    • Relational signature?  A specific AWES or energy-kite system has a relationship signature; how does a specific system relate with other systems and objects? A specific AWES will take up space and have geometric, geographic, physical, etc. relationship with other objects in near and far environment. Every new arrangement forms new relationships. 
    ==============================
    Thanks to the synergy of discussions about music in kiting, a more profound understanding of various signatures of specific energy-kite systems is surfacing for study. 
    ==============================
    Some AWES' or energy-kite systems' signatures will play to alter decisions by designers, builders, users, consumers, buyers, investors, and politicians. 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27940 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Pierre, there is no such list. Your non-family word was deleted without prejudice to people.    Also note, you were informed of fact that there is just one moderator; but you persist in publishing statements contrary to such; such ends up costing time of members unnecessarily; there is just one moderator, not two or more.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27941 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Joe, 

    You persist to protect DaveS in his malicious and false statements like on https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AirborneWindEnergy/conversations/messages/27923 : "Pierre even played piano at an AWEC conference, which other technical conferences decline..."

    You should know that a correct moderation has to block public personal attacks, public deceitful and malicious slanders without any proof DaveS does regularly on your forum, as noted numerous times by several users. But you never do it.

    So I have no other choice to ask for a deletion of the concerned post and public apology.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27942 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Pierre, 
    1. I do not "protect" any member over any other member. I aim to protect all members from any malicious attacks. 

    2. Any known malicious flow will be banned from this forum. 

    3. True and untrue statements will be found placed in this forum as a matter of common flow. Untrue statements are up for discussion and correction, hopefully in a manner and style that avoids further untrue statements; but we humans seems to flow with much untruth and thus the common struggle to advance clarity and understanding.  

    4. Proof of "malicious" -ness is a very high order matter; without confession or God-vision the quality of "malicious" or "deceit"  cannot be proved for thresholds of moderation for this forum. Differently, proofs of falsity for other-than-heart-and-soul statements are cool game matter for the forum. So far, I have not witnessed deliberate malady or deceit by our members. 

    5. If it is certain that "other technical conferences decline" is untrue, then a correction could be stated.  If it is found untrue, malicious intent may not have been active in the stating. And if malicious intent was not active, then claims of such maliciousness would beg for correction from you. It is not fun to pile error upon error.     However, if some technical conference decline your piano playing, then the matter may be moot. Has a technical conference declined your piano playing to your awareness? And has a technical conference declined your piano playing outside of your awareness but inside someone else's awareness?  The questioning is not over yet, it seems.  We are not aware of what we are not aware. 



    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <pierre-benhaiem@orange.fr
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27943 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Joe, 

    Your reply suggests you don't see the real. Have you a problem?

    PierreB
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27944 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Suggests? To you?  How so?  I see what I see; I do my best at seeing the real.   I make no claim of flowing error-free in my seeing. Suggesting does not make something so.    However, I have a proof that you and I do not see all what is real; we miss seeing almost all of what is real; the mathematical limit case of such process would invite a "limit" case: you and I do not see the full reality of anything; our vision is partial and tiny compared to what is actual.   Hence, there is much yet to do for RAD; and that is the good news for this forum.  The fullness of AWE will eventually be, I predict, far greater than what is now known as AWE. 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27945 From: dave santos Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Of course Pierre can play at conferences of other technical fields, its just that kites and music truly have many interesting relations. Pierre playing piano at an AWE conference was far more welcome than AWEIA being included, a fact that should leave Pierre content for his inclusion, if unhappy for the excluded parties. Its a curious AWE music case, on-topic here.

    No one can normally insist on being profane on public forums. It takes unhappy contributors who are emotionally closer to profanity, so they feel more constrained. Sadly the public Net has become notorious for those who won't or can't be civil as they disagree. Children are growing up bombarded by disturbed comments that moderators are swamped by.

    What we are seeing in AWE are those happy with progress in their chosen paths, and others in paths that are not progressing as well are deeply unhappy, and expressing that. Kites and music is one of the most happy paths. 



     

    Joe, 


    Your reply suggests you don't see the real. Have you a problem?

    PierreB
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27946 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    As I already mentioned I am waiting for the deletion of the malicious post on https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AirborneWindEnergy/conversations/messages/27923
    and apology from both DaveS to have produced it  and JoeF to protect it.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27947 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Pierre, 
          Perhaps there is a misreading of that linked post.   I am guessing that you are troubled over 
    "Pierre even played piano at an AWEC conference, which other technical conferences decline; that's just how musical we are. ".  Is my guess correct? Is that the core statement that concerns you?    
        Assuming for the moment that the above quote is a challenge, then I address that now: 
     That statement is not malicious; it is rather a positive statement affirming that AWEC conference did in fact have your good piano playing.   Dave confirms therein: "that's just how musical we are".    My reading is that Dave was saying "we"= those of us in AWE, have adopted music into our technical flight field whereas other non-AWE technical conferences may not be so fortunate as to be adopting music into their fields; those not adopting music may well then be poorer for not including the music of their field that may be possible, but perhaps neglected.     I am personally glad that AWEC included your piano playing.   I am sad that the AWEC conference excluded a proper role for AWEIA.     I am a bit sad that your good music was not chosen as a baton of protest, but that does not detract from the good of music being adopted by AWEC.    Thank you for your piano playing in the midst of AWE!   The missed protest opportunity is a second matter apart from music in AWE. 
        It is clear that some technical conference do decline music in there proceedings; I have attended a technical conference that had no music pointedly integrated.  
        May your piano playing be found in further AWE conferences!  I look forward to such 

    So, with that positive reading, I see no negative in the linked post.   Dave seems to say that other conferences would do well to include music in their proceedings.    A reader need not read a negative.   This explanation herein might help readers to see that Dave was saying AWE succeeds in having you play piano wheras other technical conferences (non-we-AWE) miss out on the blessing of such inclusion as including you. 

    Best to you and yours, 
    Joe
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27948 From: dave santos Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Yes, its great that our technical conference encouraged Pierre to play music. That is not a problem. Similarly, we embrace analogies in AWE to music.

    I have been pondering an AWE kitefarm like a grand piano whose physics run backwards; the music is the wind flowing back into the strings and into the body of the performer. The wind has a harmonic spectrum represented by the piano strings. The performer in reverse time is like grid demand, in perfect harmony.

    We have often equated AWES with musical physics.



     

    Pierre, 
          Perhaps there is a misreading of that linked post.   I am guessing that you are troubled over 
    "Pierre even played piano at an AWEC conference, which other technical conferences decline; that's just how musical we are. ".  Is my guess correct? Is that the core statement that concerns you?    
        Assuming for the moment that the above quote is a challenge, then I address that now: 
     That statement is not malicious; it is rather a positive statement affirming that AWEC conference did in fact have your good piano playing.   Dave confirms therein: "that's just how musical we are".    My reading is that Dave was saying "we"= those of us in AWE, have adopted music into our technical flight field whereas other non-AWE technical conferences may not be so fortunate as to be adopting music into their fields; those not adopting music may well then be poorer for not including the music of their field that may be possible, but perhaps neglected.     I am personally glad that AWEC included your piano playing.   I am sad that the AWEC conference excluded a proper role for AWEIA.     I am a bit sad that your good music was not chosen as a baton of protest, but that does not detract from the good of music being adopted by AWEC.    Thank you for your piano playing in the midst of AWE!   The missed protest opportunity is a second matter apart from music in AWE. 
        It is clear that some technical conference do decline music in there proceedings; I have attended a technical conference that had no music pointedly integrated.  
        May your piano playing be found in further AWE conferences!  I look forward to such 

    So, with that positive reading, I see no negative in the linked post.   Dave seems to say that other conferences would do well to include music in their proceedings.    A reader need not read a negative.   This explanation herein might help readers to see that Dave was saying AWE succeeds in having you play piano wheras other technical conferences (non-we-AWE) miss out on the blessing of such inclusion as including you. 

    Best to you and yours, 
    Joe

    On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 6:54 AM pierre-benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27949 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    "which other technical conferences decline" is a lie.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27950 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Pierre, " which other technical conferences decline" is not a lie; I gave your an example that makes the " which other technical conferences decline" a true statement.  He celebrated that an AWE conference had music featured; he noticed that AWE (we) include music.   Some other technical conferences decline to integrated music.    You and I and Dave do not control other technical conferences; they choose or not to have music integrated in their conferences.   I have had a technical conference on high jumping where I declined to have music at a particular technical high jump conference; at other technical high jump conferences I did integrate music.    Could you celebrate that AWE has included your music? I do so celebrate such. 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27951 From: dave santos Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    Lets try, "neglect" rather than "decline". For whatever reason, most technical conferences do not promote musical performance by attendees.

    Its reasonable most conferences "neglect" live music as important, while AWE should have even more music. Imagine our conferences also being Wubbo's AWEfest, while other conferences "decline kites".

    Those excluded from AWE conferences by either politics or travel/economic hardship sadly never got to hear Pierre play. It is a rather exclusive club.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27952 From: dave santos Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Inuit Windsled featured, best technical video so far
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27953 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/27/2019
    Subject: Re: Unique Signatures of Each Specific AWES or Energy-kite System
    Each specific AWES may be photographed in many different ways to obtain a photographic/video signature of its existential self. 
    Indeed, some AWES in operation may be video imaged throughout their entire service life.  The signature will be unique. Even similar AWES simply will not have an identical p/v signature. 
    =========================================
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27954 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/28/2019
    Subject: Re: The power consumption as the Magnus Effect Balloon or the Sharp

    Below is an interesting paper about experiments of a Flettner rotor. 


    Highlights

    • Flettner rotor CL affected by Reynolds number in critical regime.

    • Flettner rotor CD affected by Reynolds number in critical and supercritical regime.

    • Flettner rotor power consumption scales with cube of tangential velocity.

    • Power consumption found insensitive to Reynolds number.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27955 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/28/2019
    Subject: Re: Unique Signatures of Each Specific AWES or Energy-kite System
    Some other signatures of a specific AWES: 
    • Mass.  In absolute, the mass of a specific AWES is practically unique.   And actually, in fine, the mass of a specific AWES is changing continuously by such processes of sublimation, friction cutting, encrusting, impact resultants, wear, moisture changes, and more. 
    • Specification, in the fine:  When written or/and drawing or oral specifying of the particular AWES occurs, if complete, is another signature of a specific AWES. 
    • In operation, the motion of a specific AWES, in the fine, will never duplicate exactly the motion of any other AWES. Hence, the motion in operation may form a motion signature for the specific AWES.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27956 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/28/2019
    Subject: Re: Unique Signatures of Each Specific AWES or Energy-kite System
    • Ratio-set signature: In full totality, the set of ratios about a given specific AWES, will sustain a unique signature. 
    • Address signature:  The fine address of a given AWES sustains an address signature. No two AWESs occupy, in fine, identical comprehensively addresses or positions in time and space.  An AWES has position or location at any given time.
    • In the fine, it is astronomically likely that the birth moment of an AWES is unique. Birth time, if exact, may thus be a practical signature for a given AWES. 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27957 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/28/2019
    Subject: Re: The power consumption as the Magnus Effect Balloon or the Sharp
    Hi PeterS,

    I would like to read your comments about the paper I attached in my previous post, and I put again: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167610518307396, particularly 3.1 : lift coefficient. Thanks.

    PierreB
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27958 From: dave santos Date: 7/28/2019
    Subject: Re: Unique Signatures of Each Specific AWES or Energy-kite System
    Its a poetic fact that every kite's complex sonic signature, including wind-field information, runs down the tether to enter the Earth at the anchor, there to meld with all other kite reverberating signatures since the beginning of kites. What a complex superposed kite phonon gas!



     

    • Ratio-set signature: In full totality, the set of ratios about a given specific AWES, will sustain a unique signature. 
    • Address signature:  The fine address of a given AWES sustains an address signature. No two AWESs occupy, in fine, identical comprehensively addresses or positions in time and space.  An AWES has position or location at any given time.
    • In the fine, it is astronomically likely that the birth moment of an AWES is unique. Birth time, if exact, may thus be a practical signature for a given AWES. 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27959 From: dave santos Date: 7/28/2019
    Subject: The latest power-kite performance revolution- Drift Capability
    Of course kites have always some "Drift", but relentless advances in Power Kite design and materials in challenging new kitesurfing regimes have made Drift a critical flight mode. In an AWES, high Drift capability is wonderful help in fluky low wind. Drift can also be referred to as "Low-Flight-Velocity Ultra-Low Sink-Rate". Drift is a prime Power Kite virtue.

    We are seeing a new kite scaling law as well; the unmatched capability of the largest SS power kites to fully depower to a low-wingloading state while Drift mode is denied to large fast AWES kiteplanes of a similar power rating.

    Sample Power Kite Drift Marketing-
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27960 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/28/2019
    Subject: Re: Musical AWE
    "which other technical conferences decline" is a lie.
    Who tells this words lies.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 27961 From: Peter Sharp Date: 7/28/2019
    Subject: Re: The power consumption as the Magnus Effect Balloon or the Sharp
    Attachments :

      Hi PierreB,

      I read through the paper quickly. I don’t yet grasp the meaning of much of it due to my not having much experience with Reynolds numbers, so I can’t translate their findings into a practical prescription. I was surprised that the required power increased by the cube of the RPM. And I was surprised how much power was required to just spin a cylinder. That concerns me.

      The lift coefficient data seemed to be in general agreement with previous studies, so I’m not yet sure if this study found something useful.

      What do you find most interesting about this research, and about the lift coefficient? Maybe I’m missing something important.

      PeterS

       

      From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com]
      Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2019 6:49 AM
      To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [AWES] The power consumption as the Magnus Effect Balloon or the Sharp rotor scales up

       

       

      Hi PeterS,

       

      I would like to read your comments about the paper I attached in my previous post, and I put again: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167610518307396, particularly 3.1 : lift coefficient. Thanks.

       

      PierreB