Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group. AWES 25889 to 25938

Page 409 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25889	From: benhaiemp	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25890	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25891	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25892	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25893	From: Pierre BENHAIEM	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25894	From: benhaiemp	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25895	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: AWEC 2019 Call-for-Abstracts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25896	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25897	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Catapult Launching Ampyx Kiteplanes Offshore?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25898	From: benhaiemp	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25899	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25900	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Catapult Launching Ampyx Kiteplanes Offshore?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25901	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Power - "Mission Creep"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25902	From: benhaiemp	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25903	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25904	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25905	From: benhaiemp	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25906	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Power - "Mission Creep"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25907	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25908	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25909	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Open-AWE_IP-Pool Discussion

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25910	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: windpowerengineering.com article on AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25911	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Mathematical-Model Reuse for Fast-Kiteplane Tether-Snub Factor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25912	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25913	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Peizo-to-Piezo and Piezo-to-Light Solutions for Line-Strum Drag?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25914	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25915	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: kPower Service Invoice to USWindLab (proof-of-generator)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25916	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Airborne Wind Europe's Video

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25917	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "right

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25918	From: joe_f_90032	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Articles, general

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25919	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: kPower Service Invoice to USWindLab (proof-of-generator)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25920	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25921	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Articles, general

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25922	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "r

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25923	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Gaps in AWES Simulations (Update Notes)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25924	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Developing Kite Analog-Relativity Further- "Wormholes" (ER Bridges)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25925	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: kPower Service Invoice to USWindLab (proof-of-generator)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25926	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25927	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Articles, general

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25928	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "r

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25929	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25930	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "r

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25931	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "r

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25932	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: kPower Service Invoice to USWindLab (proof-of-generator)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25933	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25934	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: kPower Service Invoice to USWindLab (proof-of-generator)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25935	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "r

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25936	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: SkySails featured by The Economist

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25937	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: SkySails featured by The Economist

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25938	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: kPower Testing showing SS Power Kites Turning Tightest under Power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25889	From: benhaiemp	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Dave,

"All these methods have been discussed at great length over years." : no, absolutely no.

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20170317&DB=&locale=fr_EP&CC=FR&NR=3034473B1&KC=B1&ND=4# : FR3034473 (B1) (EOLIENNE AEROPORTEE ROTATIVE) is my valid French patent with a search report without mentioned relevant prior art. The idea of "Rotating Reel" is not yours, not nor of anyone else; it is mine.

A scientific paper from Dr. Roland Schmehl and me describes and measures my invention. I put again the link: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324135034_Airborne_Wind_Energy_Conversion_Using_a_Rotating_Reel_System .

I summarized it on your forum after. You and your forum have no contribution for the Rotating Reel system, in the case you understand how it works, what I doubt.

" Its up to future AWE IP litigation or arbitration to settle priority claims based on the document trail."

You have no authority for it. Patent administrations and courts have authority, not you.

Please avoid to share what you don't have, with your so-called "Open-AWE_IP-Pool".

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25890	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

No, Doug, that turbine was never intended as line-laundry by the renowned German HQ-brand designers. It was for a pole display.

Learn standard "kite" products to grasp kPower's unsurpassed expertise in adapting these to working AWE prototypes.

We have soft and semi-rigid LadderMill prototypes you can buy, based on stock kite elements.

OK thanks for clarifying: There was no "100 Watts" - it was just one more figment of your misguided imagination...

The "propeller" was of the type sold by kite outlets as "line-laundry"...

No electrical generation took place, according to you.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25891	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Power

Its true Doug, you invoke memorizing tenths of a Watt and obsess on power metering to seriously misunderstand the essence of kite power. It really can be felt.

Amazingly enough, a 3m2 power kite from a liter-sized bag, in a strong breeze, is about as powerful as a small mining pony; even if your power meter has never told you that.

The race is to meter to MW scale and beyond, never mind that kPower has made too little power to please you. Nothing seems to please you about power kites, small or large.

Oh yes, now I'm "mistaken" OK...

daveS I do not believe your "childhood feelings" show data, in a discussion of power output.

You seem to just have an unending reservoir of excuses.

"power meter over-dependence" - Wow, what an EXCUSE!!!

Now, suddenly, "measuring power" is a mental illness.

Yup, officially-diagnosed, just today, by Professor Crackpot:

"Power-Meter Overdependence"! (Talk to your doctor. Power-meter over-dependence may lead to headaches, nausea, heartburn, constipation, diarrhea, and suicidal thoughts or actions! So take it! It's really good for you!)

No WONDER you don't measure power like 100% of the rest of wind energy - it's a mental illness!!

And you'd hate to be associated with that, right daveS? ;)

(ding ding ding ding, red-flag red-flag red-flag...) (ahem...)

"and not reading papers" Yeah I should really read more. Maybe if I read enough, that will make it so you magically start occasionally measuring power, like me. What a twisted trail of logic to try to follow.

All excuses, all the time: =

daveS: "In AWE, its often a matter of "feeling" evident monster power. If you can't feel the crazy power you are probably in the wrong field. The hard job is taming the power, and leave obsessive measuring..."

DougS:***: If you would have told me as a kid that adults could have conversations this ridiculously dumb, I would have had trouble believing it. After 12 years of bragging about producing even TeraWatts, of repowering nuclear plants, or rendering "windtowers" obsolete, suddenly Santos is touting the "feel" of power from flying a kite as his latest "breakthrough", throwing away even the idea of measuring output or producing any electricity at all. Today, suddenly, the new metric is whether you can "feel the power" and if not you "are in the wrong field". Again, it is difficult to believe this could even be an adult conversation. Lets go back 12 years: EVERYONE could "feel the power" flying kites. Nobody knew how to convert the power they felt to electricity. Generating electricity from the power everyone could feel was the STATED GOAL. But facts, logic, sticking to a theme - none of this matters to daveS. All that matters to him is more bragging, more posturing, more pretending. The only people promoting a "horse metric" are Dave Santos and Joe Faust. So Santos accuses me of what he was doing. Sorry to say, there is just no limit to the stupidity encountered in this venue. Really, it seems impossible for any human being to attempt "conversation", of any kind, on this level.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Wind power is measured in Watts generated. Your protestations are obvious attempts to divert attention from your failure to generate, after 12 years. Mentioning the standard horsepower conversion is meaningless.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

For imperial:

Convert Imperial Electrical Horsepower to Watts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25892	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

The date-stamped Forum email trail speaks for itself, whether or not we remember a lot or a little was disclosed. There is also a lot of new art to continue to add.

Dave,

"All these methods have been discussed at great length over years." : no, absolutely no.

I summarized it on your forum after. You and your forum have no contribution for the Rotating Reel system, in the case you understand how it works, what I doubt.

" Its up to future AWE IP litigation or arbitration to settle priority claims based on the document trail."

You have no authority for it. Patent administrations and courts have authority, not you.

Please avoid to share what you don't have, with your so-called "Open-AWE_IP-Pool".

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25893	From: Pierre BENHAIEM	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AirborneWindEnergy/conversations/topics/18186 : June 12, 2015.

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20170317&DB=&locale=fr_EP&CC=FR&NR=3034473B1&KC=B1&ND=4# : patent FR3034473 (B1) filing date: March 31, 2015, so before any disclosure of which that aforementioned.

You should learn more about patents.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25894	From: benhaiemp	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AirborneWindEnergy/conversations/topics/18186 : June 12, 2015.

You should learn more about patents.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25895	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: AWEC 2019 Call-for-Abstracts

Here's the AWEC2019 extended call for abstracts, a probable sign of lagging submissions. A priority of major investment player attraction is evident, with no mention of Demo sessions or other small-player wild-cards. Structural exclusion of hands-on R&D disruption favors more reliable courting of capital by the entrenched top circle, but its a risky game. Over-focus on venture capital can mask technical shortcomings, and stiff investment correction comes due, and reputations are ruined. Nevertheless, financial architects like UdoZ intend huge returns when they sucessfully "exit" round after round, without academic prestige to lose, but they must avoid implication in unethical and unfair business practices, or obviously disastrous bets, to continue in future rounds. The lurking presence of GoogleX, Shell, and other giants, adds to the high-stakes business drama. Anything can happen as insider managers seek preferred outcomes, but winning dark-horse players might "come out of nowhere" (Asia, for example), even skipping AWEC, to claim the up-for-grabs AWE field.

===========

Dear Madam or Sir,

We have extended the submission deadline for the one-page abstracts until 11 June 24:00 CET (see https://awec2019.com/call-for-abstracts for more details).

If you would like to engage as a sponsor for the AWEC2019 I would like to refer you to our sponsoring brochure, which lists several levels of possible sponsoring (see https://awec2019.com/images/become_a_sponsor.pdf). If you plan to attend with several persons the "silver" or "gold" sponsoring options might be suitable for your team because these include several complimentary registrations. The brochure also lists the option to specifically sponsor student fellowships, which is a great way to engage graduate researchers in the technology development and commercialization.

We will soon publish a tentative program of the conference. Next to two technical presentation tracks we will now also include a panel discussion track with the aim to engage more panelists from industry than at previous conferences. We would like to engage especially also the industries that would use AWE in their renewable energy portfolio. If you are generally interested to participate in one or more of these panel discussions please contact Stefanie Thoms, who is in CC to this Email. A list of the planned discussions will be published soon.

With kind regards,
Roland Schmehl

Pierre is right, let's prove the facts. Let's also uncover the hidden story.

The Airborne Wind Energy Consortium's trail of evidence is well documented in Forum archives and by many other sources on the Net. Pierre at least knows that AWEC existed, if not the details.

It's up to the EU insiders to explain what happened to AWEC and how it's grip on AWE conferences was passed to Roland and Moritz.

Pierre is right, let's prove the facts. Let's also uncover the hidden story.

The Airborne Wind Energy Consortium's trail of evidence is well documented in Forum archives and by many other sources on the Net. Pierre at least knows that AWEC existed, if not the details.

It's up to the EU insiders to explain what happened to AWEC and how it's grip on AWE conferences was passed to Roland and Moritz.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25896	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

We are always learning about AWE patents, including you, Pierre.

The main lesson so far is no small AWE patent holder has ever seen a penny of profit, nor can they afford millions to defend their patents around the world from the likes of Google, Facebook, or smaller pirates. Patent Pool dynamics are attractive to these folks. Bolonkin and Olsen for example, have provisionally approved their quality AWE patents to be represented in the Pool. All other major new industries in modern history have created Pools. I would rather build the Pool than throw money at AWE patents. Only USP3987987 seemed dominant, but expired.

No one else has been organizing a Pool in AWE. The early start is favored.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AirborneWindEnergy/conversations/topics/18186 : June 12, 2015.

You should learn more about patents.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25897	From: dave santos	Date: 6/4/2019
Subject: Catapult Launching Ampyx Kiteplanes Offshore?

What would it take to provide every Ampyx kiteplane its own catapult launch system? Some comparable to existing aircraft carrier versions. Masses and velocities will be high. The kiteplane must be hurled fast enough to gain altitude and turn safely to glide downwind to fly as a kite. Step-towing by winch is a likely further necessity. Such complex offshore operations are hardly practical, economic, or scalable, with so much to go wrong. In WP overview of TRL9 COTS catapults, none offer shorter throw than 45m, most much more. That's a huge buoy needed. This fast massive form of kiteplane is driven from land due to unacceptable hazard to populations. Sea operations are a dire trade-off. At least the millions in ongoing investment promise to settle the fate of catapulted kiteplanes at sea.

Aircraft catapult

Aviation pioneer and Smithsonian Secretary Samuel Langley used a spring-operated catapult to launch his successf...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25898	From: benhaiemp	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Oh I see. Probably your " Open-AWE_IP-Pool " is used by other players for years, and these players produce your Quantum-Bose-Einstein concept, use AWE for concerts and so on.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25899	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Pierre,

It is wonderful that such fine AWE patents are already in the Open-AWE_IP-Pool, and also that we can apply advanced physics to kites, and that the Forum is a sort of journal of record of many such ideas.

Don't believe in IP Pools or fancy physics as you will. Believe your own patents and physics, and that the specific convergence of ideas proposed here, the "Caraisy" synthesis, adds nothing new. Better a diversity of views.

May you and Doug someday appreciate the cool kite analog-QM ideas from expert comprehension, on merits.

Oh I see. Probably your " Open-AWE_IP-Pool " is used by other players for years, and these players produce your Quantum-Bose-Einstein concept, use AWE for concerts and so on.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25900	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Catapult Launching Ampyx Kiteplanes Offshore?

Reminding readers of past Open-AWE Forum thinking whereby a fleet of kiteplanes might operate from onshore, to fly themselves to the offshore farm and somehow pick up their working tethers (TRL9 banner-towing similarity case). This would avoid many complications of storm avoidance, offshore maintenance, launching-landing on a "perch", and so on.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25901	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Power - "Mission Creep"

daveS, you are hilarious. You and JoeF are off in your own little fantasy-world, where the hobbits run everything from kites using rope drives, just no actual details or examples in 12 years of being the top AWE researcher. The silly thing is, the world used to work like that, hundreds of years ago, except using windmills with cloth blades and water-wheels, until electricity became de rigeur, as the universal translation and transmission medium.

How many hydroelectric plants today are directly-driving machinery through rope-drives? Zero. How many wind energy systems are using cloth blades? Zero.

What has happened to you two in the last 12 years?

Well it's pretty simple: You started out as a typical "Professor Crackpot", thinking wind energy is so simple, if only YOUR genius were applied, the whole field would quickly change. The only questions were little details like "Skygen? Groundgen?" The details didn't matter because you knew people like Santos, Obewon Knobbe Benvirt, PJ Shepard, the Makani crew, the Euro-trash, etc., would quickly solve the challenge.

The idea was to lower the cost of wind energy. Meaning wind-generated electricity - we have to stay focused on reality: electricity is here to stay. And what we all know, to start, is YOU CAN FEEL THE POWER IN A KITE. That was THE STARTING PLACE, NOT THE FINISH LINE. And THE GOAL IS TO FIND A WAY TO TURN THAT KITE POWER INTO ELECTRICITY. That was 12 years ago.

Electricity: The entire world runs on electricity. It goes to every home and business. There is a huge economy around it. Every home and business has A METER. Every generating facility, similarly, HAS A METER. The entire system uses METERS to determine how much electricity is produced or used by any given entity. Your job was to fit into this reality, which you said you could do better than tower-based wind turbines due to lower mass and higher heights. REMEMBER??????????????????????????????????????????????

Today, the slipperiest character to ever attempt to darken the door of wind energy attempts to pretend to be the leading wind energy researcher while denigrating even the IDEA of a meter. This is where I say, trying to have logical conversation with you is like trying to get a grip on a greased water-balloon. There is NO standard of ANYTHING you can be held to. There is NO statement you ever make that someone can come back and expect you to stay consistent with even your own previous statements. It's just whatever nonsense you think you can float on the internet, any given day. Doesn't matter if it makes any sense. CERTAINLY doesn't matter if it makes any power. It's just you, pretending to be "in charge" - just unable to charge anything, like say a battery. Because of generating no electricity. In charge of what? Nobody has the answer to that, just highly-insistent, insistent on, well, something, and unwilling to engage in a reasoned discussion.

People with an engineering education tend to remember simple things like how many Watts in a Horsepower without trying. It comes from working problems. Sorry if that offends crackpots. Same with electric meters - you know the type used wherever electricity is produced or consumed? Hey daveS , tell us about the electric system with no meters. Where is one? Amazing how anyone can go on as you do. Today, the demon, the dragon to slay, is electric meters. Picture daveS riding his steed across the landscape, flailing his sword, looking to slay electricity - generators, power-meters - heck even telltale dangling copper wires - the enemy! METERS! Meters represent FACTS! We HATE FACTS! Facts get in the way of our fantasy! Don;t you see? All the things that ruin daveS' fantasy of outpowering, well, anything at all. daveS, You make Don Quixote look like a mere beginner. The real dragon to slay was the generators and power meters! After 12 years of pretending, now you flag power meters as the problem! OMG!!!! I think someone could and should write a book adding all the crazy things you promote. It could easily add up to over a thousand pages. Maybe useful as required reading for people going into mental health, to illustrate the impossibility of getting through to some people. Then one could spend weeks reading it and come out with nothing more than before they started reading, since you've come up with nothing new or useful in the ensuing 12 years. It could be the world's greatest study of flailing and failing, of mission creep and stagnation, of running in place while pretending to be moving at a million miles an hour. Of stating a goal then completely ignoring it, while pretending to be pursuing it. Pretending pursuit of the goal, while simultaneously denigrating, then denying, the goal (generating electricity, turning your power meter less expensively, in a world organized by power meters, the greatest wind energy researcher ever, flies kites by hand, "feeling the power", denigrating the concept of power meters lest they ruin his fantasy of making power by showing the number ZERO. OMG.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Oh yes, now I'm "mistaken" OK...

daveS I do not believe your "childhood feelings" show data, in a discussion of power output.

You seem to just have an unending reservoir of excuses.

"power meter over-dependence" - Wow, what an EXCUSE!!!

Now, suddenly, "measuring power" is a mental illness.

Yup, officially-diagnosed, just today, by Professor Crackpot:

No WONDER you don't measure power like 100% of the rest of wind energy - it's a mental illness!!

And you'd hate to be associated with that, right daveS? ;)

(ding ding ding ding, red-flag red-flag red-flag...) (ahem...)

All excuses, all the time: =

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

For imperial:

Convert Imperial Electrical Horsepower to Watts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25902	From: benhaiemp	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

We have our own wonderful "Open-AWE_IP-Pool" with wonderful AWE ideas and not less wonderful fancy contents of which the Forum is a part.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25903	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

daveS, you announced this video as satisfying "Doug's" (translation: facts) request to see electricity generated. But the video shows nothing of the sort. It's just watching a kiteshow decoration rotate. That's it. For ten seconds. No electrical load. No volts or amps shown. Nothing, just a spinning kiteshow decoration. As usual, one of your and JoeF's main strategies is to fixate on word definitions. Today, the issue you think will rescue you is to fixate on the term "line laundry" If you can control word definitions, you can always delay the elephant in the room of your general failure for one more day. At least in the JoeF's & daveS' fantasy-world where we are presently having this discussion.

Whether you think it falls into a word definition of "line laundry" is to miss the point: It generates no power. It was never intended to generate any power. It's a kite-show decoration. A rotating display of color. It's old news. Pre-existing irrelevance. Nothing to see here folks, move along. You have not shown it generating any power, You have not shown that it even has a generator. Nor a "gearbox". There is no generator visible in the video. There is no electrical load to generate into shown. You say you "estimate" it "making" 100 Watts. But you do not show even a complete circuit. Let alone any "100 Watts". 100 Watts of what? Yes, I know, I know, the world is too "fixated" on "power meters". Or maybe the world is fixted on "complete circuits"! Yes that's it, why does the world keep harping on complete circuits??? And why power meters anyway? Why can't people just take some crackpot's WORD for it? Don't they appreciate the pull of a kite? What's the MATTER with people? Hey daveS, good luck with your chosen new "mission-creep" career, of trying to get people off those pesky electric meters. Only when electric meters are eliminated will your great genius be appreciated!

:O............

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

OK thanks for clarifying: There was no "100 Watts" - it was just one more figment of your misguided imagination...

The "propeller" was of the type sold by kite outlets as "line-laundry"...

No electrical generation took place, according to you.

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Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25904	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Interesting how the people advocating sharing IP are the ones (one?) who have none to share.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25905	From: benhaiemp	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

DaveS prefers to share the ideas from others as his, using some mysterious " Open-AWE_IP-Pool ".

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25906	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Power - "Mission Creep"

Doug,

JoeF's and my mission remain the same as when this Forum was created, RAD (Rapid AWE Development, meaning rapid by aerospace R&D norms). We are on the same knowledge-quest as from the start.

Go ahead and laugh, but your idea that our mission has changed is mistaken. Good luck with your own goals, to develop your AWES concepts,

daveS

How many hydroelectric plants today are directly-driving machinery through rope-drives? Zero. How many wind energy systems are using cloth blades? Zero.

What has happened to you two in the last 12 years?

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Oh yes, now I'm "mistaken" OK...

daveS I do not believe your "childhood feelings" show data, in a discussion of power output.

You seem to just have an unending reservoir of excuses.

"power meter over-dependence" - Wow, what an EXCUSE!!!

Now, suddenly, "measuring power" is a mental illness.

Yup, officially-diagnosed, just today, by Professor Crackpot:

No WONDER you don't measure power like 100% of the rest of wind energy - it's a mental illness!!

And you'd hate to be associated with that, right daveS? ;)

(ding ding ding ding, red-flag red-flag red-flag...) (ahem...)

All excuses, all the time: =

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

For imperial:

Convert Imperial Electrical Horsepower to Watts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25907	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Doug, The geared generator was always on the turbine shaft, and its still there in storage.

:O............

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

OK thanks for clarifying: There was no "100 Watts" - it was just one more figment of your misguided imagination...

The "propeller" was of the type sold by kite outlets as "line-laundry"...

No electrical generation took place, according to you.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25908	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Convergence of Daisy, Rotating Reels, and Carousel Concepts

Let future scholars decide if Doug and Pierre are correct here.

DaveS prefers to share the ideas from others as his, using some mysterious " Open-AWE_IP-Pool ".

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25909	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Open-AWE_IP-Pool Discussion

This topic is for discussion of the Pool, outside of the Caraisy AWES topic.

So far Pierre is skeptical of the AWE IP pool, if not his own IP puddle. Starting from early positive intent toward the AWE Pool by quality AWE patent holders like Bolonkin and Olsen, it has grown to be one of largest claimed IP troves in AWE. The Pool claims kPower's IP, the AWES Forum, and other fine little clouds of copyright, trademark, protected practice; as ultimately to be determined by IP Law in contractual agreement and/or litigation.

As a continued discussion point, history proves there is no guaranteed IP outcome. Approved patents may be invalidated and usually do not pay-back. IP has been traditionally but haphazardly recognized by an "honor system" ethos, by governments and corporations, as political or PR best-practice. Outcomes have always been mixed; inventors rewarded or cheated, case-by-case. In response, IP pools have become standard in modern times to resolve IP uncertainty by group statistics.

Anyone is invited to add to the AWE IP Pool, or withdraw anytime. Detailed conditions have been laid out here over the years, strongly favoring the IP holder in future collective bargaining. As a final outcome, its hoped the Pool will earn modest well-deserved royalties on industrial AWE capacity, on settled technical and moral merits.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25910	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: windpowerengineering.com article on AWE

Mostly well known facts and claims-

How kites and flags may harvest wind power

Wind energy is on track to overtake hydropower in electrical generation this year in the U.S. This is good news,...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25911	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Mathematical-Model Reuse for Fast-Kiteplane Tether-Snub Factor

What happens when a high-velocity high-mass kiteplane happens to slack tether and snub-up suddenly? Force of impact might easily exceed an unprotected airframe's working loads. Effective shock absorption is required.

Here's a close tether-dynamics model, based on climbing rope-work-

Fall factor

The impact force is defined as the maximum tension in the rope when a climber falls. Using the common rope model...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25912	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

The video you provided was not responsive to my noting of zero power from you.

There is no generator, no gearing, visible in the video. No visible confirmation of power generated.

A separate photo would help bolster your claim of even having a generator onboard.

Why not provide such a photo?

It's obvious to me that there was not even a charging circuit in place.

You would need an electrical load of some type - a device to absorb your estimated "100 Watts".

That requires a complete electrical circuit, including such an electrical load.

Most people going to all that trouble of demonstrating a supposed flygen system would not want to waste the effort by not including a power meter or instrumentation of some sort - voltage, current.

No, the landscape does not suddenly change for you, where people would accept an "estimate" of how much power you think you can feel flying a kite. I do not see how a rotating kite-show spinner would provide any such tactile sensation anyway. The point is, I don't think even the most extreme crackpot has ever suggested others should "just take their word" for estimated power output based on a "feel" of a kite string, especially for a supposed skygen configuration where the rotation would not be felt in the kite string anyway. I don't think the world will ever be convinced to be dumbed-down sufficiently for you to pretend to be making power (Into what? Nobody knows!) based on people just "taking your word for it". Crazy talk.

Yet he goes on:

"We have soft and semi-rigid LadderMill prototypes you can buy, based on stock kite elements."

Oh sure daveS, can you show us pictures of your supposed "soft and semi-rigid laddermill prototypes"?

You can put them together with the pictures of your supposed gearbox and generator mounted on the kite-show-spinner.

Thanks!

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

OK thanks for clarifying: There was no "100 Watts" - it was just one more figment of your misguided imagination...

The "propeller" was of the type sold by kite outlets as "line-laundry"...

No electrical generation took place, according to you.

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Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25913	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Peizo-to-Piezo and Piezo-to-Light Solutions for Line-Strum Drag?

A non-linear limit-factor to tether drag is how a line begins to strum with aeolian noise at high velocity. If kite line could be keep still of this noise, drag would be greatly reduced. Keep in mind we are most concerned only with strum on just the tether closest to a fast high L/D kiteplane. The rest of the tether does not operate so near the upper drag limit.

Piezo materials convert between mechanical bending-force and electricity. In principle, acoustic sine waves of a strumming line can be converted by the piezo effect into electricity or light. Passive piezo loading would tend to damp the line, but added piezo mass could make strumming worse. Piezo-electric energy could fed back into its units to actively damp strum, hopefully well overcoming the added mass of the piezo capability.

This is a nano-tech engineering problem. The noise on a kiteline around 10kHz is well suited to piezo material. Transmitted light would be a THz up-conversion in frequency. No one has yet really solved line drag, and its not really a major concern except for the fastest tethered objects. There is also the problem of line-breaks caused by tiny peak transient forces in the line harmonics.

When a tether breaks, it melts right at the molecular bonds. If instead of promoting melting events, this harmonic heat could be dissipated elsewhere, that would be great. Conversion of strum-energy to light, perhaps by piezo-effect, could dissipate excess phonon energy with nowhere else to go. Such tethers would glow brightly as the kiteplane surges around its pattern. Anything found useful and novel here is Open-AWE_IP-Pool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectricity

kPower Science Fun- Pure LSD on a strumming kiteline will glow-

Piezoluminescence

In the folk-literature surrounding psychedelic production, DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, and LSD have been reported to exhibit...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25914	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Doug, Pay for the information services you want. Get Ed Sapir to confirm the generator was always there. He could produce an affidavit at the base legal cost plus his time. Photos could also be made, or may exist in archives. You can buy the prototype and see for yourself.

Quite frankly, the video was made from the ground and never suited for your purpose. The generator was mounted in the mechanical frame bus-structure made from an aluminum crutch. Its maybe 3" wide in a 4m rotor.

Seek proper evidence before making false accusations. Expect to pay for professional services, including kite expertise you willfully lack. You did not even know what line-laundry really is.

The video you provided was not responsive to my noting of zero power from you.

There is no generator, no gearing, visible in the video. No visible confirmation of power generated.

A separate photo would help bolster your claim of even having a generator onboard.

Why not provide such a photo?

It's obvious to me that there was not even a charging circuit in place.

You would need an electrical load of some type - a device to absorb your estimated "100 Watts".

That requires a complete electrical circuit, including such an electrical load.

Most people going to all that trouble of demonstrating a supposed flygen system would not want to waste the effort by not including a power meter or instrumentation of some sort - voltage, current.

Yet he goes on:

"We have soft and semi-rigid LadderMill prototypes you can buy, based on stock kite elements."

Oh sure daveS, can you show us pictures of your supposed "soft and semi-rigid laddermill prototypes"?

You can put them together with the pictures of your supposed gearbox and generator mounted on the kite-show-spinner.

Thanks!

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

OK thanks for clarifying: There was no "100 Watts" - it was just one more figment of your misguided imagination...

The "propeller" was of the type sold by kite outlets as "line-laundry"...

No electrical generation took place, according to you.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25915	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: kPower Service Invoice to USWindLab (proof-of-generator)

Attachments :

Doug, It turns out the Mini-Mothra AWES generator is quite visible in the video. The low voltage line to the ground is also highly visible. Attached is the proof requested.

Pay up or just apologize for your false accusation if you can't afford the service requested.

@@attachment@@

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25916	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: Airborne Wind Europe's Video

Gosh, they all look wonderful; how does an investor choose?

kPower recommends SkySails, of this particular basket-of-offerings.

Airborne Wind Europe Member Presentation

Airborne Wind Europe is an association of 14 companies and research institutes, among them are the leading Europ...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25917	From: dave santos	Date: 6/5/2019
Subject: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "right

The saddest outcome in AWE is to fail for lack of a skilled kite tradition. Fortunately, there are millions of kite experts across many cultures, from ancient to modern, who can make AWE happen. A prior post identified the South Asian kite and phone video revolution, and the cultural conditions that perfected the Patang long before modern aerospace even got its boots on. Moving Southeast, noble kite traditions proliferate like the regional biodiversity. Some of these traditions are well known, like the Bali scene, but others hide from modern analysts in the vast jungles and archipelagos. We see patterns emerge between urban and rural, tribal and multi-cultural kite techne. AE PhDs are forgiven for their incapacity to formalize Stone Age AE.

Here is a medley of SE Asian kite videos, across a vast map. Notice how hummers sound region-by-region. Listen for multiple voices in humming and weird phase-shifting harmonics. Its reported the greatest masters of these polyphonic traditions are gone, who could summon 5-7 voices from a kite, where modern aficionados only manage 2-3. There are odd new traditions sprung from old roots. Note kite festivals where traditional kitemakers make whatever theme they fancy, and it flies. Watch kids and old people move like a Western kite pro (or is it the other way around). Check out the science-fiction-primitive hot air balloon festival where homemade theme envelopes rise with fires lit, completing inflation in the sky.

Some basics included- Giant Edos and Barrilentes, for those new to giant-kite heritage traditions (Japanese and Mayoid genetic markers trace back to SE Asia). Also odds and ends, like Thai fruit glue (original "right-stuff"), and a superior hummer suffers bad luck on its maiden flight.

Malang Traditional Kites (Kite Festival) Gondanglegi, Malang, East Java, Indonesia

Malang Traditional Kites (Kite Festival) Gondanglegi, Malang, East Java,...

Malang Traditional Kites (Kamratan/Aretan) Gondanglegi, Malang, East Java, Indonesia

A freeform kite design culture in rapid transition form old to new-

LUCU dan UNIK Seni Layang-Layang SEPEDA ONTEL dan Barongan

mari berkreatifitas layangan unik unik lucu lucu,, jangan lupa share ya kak, makasih

Note the rural setting has allowed evolution of kites that would not survive an urban Patang sky-

Layangan

hot air

Taunggyi Hot Air Balloon Festival

During the daytime at the Hot Air Balloon Festival, or “Tazaungdaing Festival”, in the Shan State of Myanmar, la...

Best hummer, worst flight-

Layangan ter aneh berbentuk BUNDAR & BESAR_!!

Layangan ter aneh berbentuk BUNDAR & BESAR_!!

Festival Padang Galak - Lomba Layangan Padang Galak - Bali Kite Festival - Padang Galak

Festival Padang Galak - Lomba Layangan Padang Galak - Bali Kite Festival...

Layang-layang dan juga tradisi Melayangan sangat erat kaitannya dengan cerita rare angon. Dipercaya bahwa Dewa S...

Barriletes Gigantes Guatemala

Una tradicion del dia de los muertos en Guatemala es la exhibicion de estos majestuosos barriletes gigantes, ela...

Giant Edo Kite Tradition; a three-year service-life case for a mulberry-paper and bamboo giant-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6DMpluPV9k

Traditional Thai kites with DIY curcurbit glue

ทุ่งแสงตะวัน ตอน ว่านมะตูม2

ทุ่งแสงตะวัน ตอน ว่านมะตูม 2 เป็นรายการที่ได้ถ่ายทำที่ บ้านบะเค ตำบลโพธิ์ทอง อำเภอโพนทอง จังหวัดร้อยเอ็ด

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25918	From: joe_f_90032	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Articles, general

https://www.windpowerengineering.com/business-news-projects/how-kites-and-flags-may-harvest-wind-power/

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25919	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: kPower Service Invoice to USWindLab (proof-of-generator)

The "geared generator" you claim was used, is not identifiable by the video, or the freeze-frame picture you attached to your message. An actual photo of the apparatus would be more appropriate. Further, your statement of "false accusation" is a false accusation in itself. Asking for evidence is not an accusation at all, as a start. One more example of your inability to even engage in a discussion. Another excuse from daveS, in the form of a false accusation that someone else is making a false accusation.. No limit to your illogic.

Beyond that, you previously mentioned something about an "unmatched" generator, as one more excuse for no power output. If your supposed generator is unmatched, and therefore not usable, that is the same as no generator at all. One more way you are ineffective at wind energy - inability to match a generator to a task. Stymied at every turn. Baffled at the most basic aspect of wind energy. Yes I could see something dangling from your off-the-shelf, kite-show spinner. You claim it was a wire. I'd say, the only point of a wire would be to conduct electricity, and the only way for it to function would be if it were attached to an electrical load, so electricity could flow, of which I see no evidence. What kind of load could you attach an "unmatched" generator to anyway? I believe this shows the supposed generator was not connected to anything, therefore the spinner was spinning unloaded. Your "wire" was apparently not functioning, but rather served as just a dangling stage-prop. So you could keep pretending.

It makes no sense for you to point us to such a video claiming it answers my observation of no power produced from kPower in 12 years of empty bragging. The video shows no power produced. The photo shows no identifiable generator. I now believe there was no power produced at all, with no electricity flowing, since you've now shown you cannot answer any of these basic questions.

And your typical "offer" to try and convert someone questioning your statements into a billable event is just one more repeated, unimaginative, childlike response, typical of the ongoing, online, daveS brag-fest, pretending to be even peripherally involved in AWE. It doesn't make you look "smart". In my opinion, it doesn't convince anyone of anything except they would never want to try to have even the simplest discussion with you, let alone do business with you.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25920	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

The last thing Ed Sapir told me, he was extremely excited about a new product he was engineering and preparing to market, which was to split a 5-gallon plastic bucket in half and adapt it into a pair of bicycle saddlebag-type travel-baskets or cargo containers, whatever you would call them. I guess he thought it would help solve global warming. My impression was he would never follow through. But I was polite and humored him. He also confirmed that you were a little, well, oh, nevermind. That was like 5 years ago. Nice of him to come by and visit in his travels. Seemed like a nice enough guy. Anyway, I don't see why you need to drag Ed into this, unless you believe it serves as one more "excuse". Who's buying it?

A 4-meter rotor. Wow, that's a lot of power to handle. Your generator would typically weigh something like 100 lbs. I mean, if it actually were a wind turbine, rather than a decoration.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

The video you provided was not responsive to my noting of zero power from you.

There is no generator, no gearing, visible in the video. No visible confirmation of power generated.

A separate photo would help bolster your claim of even having a generator onboard.

Why not provide such a photo?

It's obvious to me that there was not even a charging circuit in place.

You would need an electrical load of some type - a device to absorb your estimated "100 Watts".

That requires a complete electrical circuit, including such an electrical load.

Most people going to all that trouble of demonstrating a supposed flygen system would not want to waste the effort by not including a power meter or instrumentation of some sort - voltage, current.

Yet he goes on:

"We have soft and semi-rigid LadderMill prototypes you can buy, based on stock kite elements."

Oh sure daveS, can you show us pictures of your supposed "soft and semi-rigid laddermill prototypes"?

You can put them together with the pictures of your supposed gearbox and generator mounted on the kite-show-spinner.

Thanks!

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

OK thanks for clarifying: There was no "100 Watts" - it was just one more figment of your misguided imagination...

The "propeller" was of the type sold by kite outlets as "line-laundry"...

No electrical generation took place, according to you.

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Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25921	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Articles, general

Thanks for "flagging" that article JoeF.

Quote from the last paragraph:

"it’s unlikely such unconventional turbine designs will take over the typical tower and blade wind-power landscape"

I would add, "Especially the piezoelectric flags" (which of course must also be fitted with solar cells, so they could stand a chance of pretending to produce SOME electricity. (typical Professor Crackpot dodge and misapplication of solar cells). Not sure why the flags are in the same article, but I CAN tell you the type of person who promotes that sort of flapping thing on this forum.

note: the article did not include "providing shade" as a form of AWE. Gosh, how could they have missed THAT one?

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <joefaust333@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25922	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "r

I'll just stop reading after your first 8 words:

"The saddest outcome in AWE is to fail"

Congratulations.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25923	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Gaps in AWES Simulations (Update Notes)

Adequately simulating AWES flight cycles and exception states is well beyond current capability. Its a long game. Early simulation state-machines are all rudimentary. Formally complete high-dimensional combinatorics are computationally intractable. Only more-or-less "effective-theory" control is possible, in due time.

Specific simulation gaps listed here do not aim at any particular effort, but reflect the generally primitive state-of-the-art. AWE's still-small community of engineer-scientists have done heroic work to get as far as they have. No serious criticism can be laid on them.

Gaps in Simulation Notes-

- Who does failure-mode "simulate-to-destruction"? Take modelling the classic hazard of a low-velocity low-altitude stall in a turn. This means modeling aircraft falling out of the sky, attempting recovery before impacting terrain. Tether-fouling modes are a key concern for may architectures, possibly recoverable if suitably flown. Triggering emergency systems is a big issue. Crash Events should realistically be simulation outcomes, when limit conditions are exceeded and recovery fails. This sort of simulation R&D has hardly begun.

- Simulated sense-and-avoid shared airspace requirement has not been modeled. Design for intruding aircraft will require complex avoidance paths. Even just basic logic for tripping Alarms, for the human PIC to take over controls, has not been worked out. Automated VO function has not been modelled. Tangled tethers in close-packed brush-topology kitefarms has not been modeled.

- Simulated Turbulence needs to be 3D, with strong updraft-downdraft components, and random and coherent harmonics. Rogue real-world wind events can even act as quasi-agents that exploit specific platform failure modes, that simplistic random turbulence simulations may never achieve. Micrometeorological data networks are not simulated by canned turbulence.

- Density altitude as a function of air temperature and base altitude, have not been systematically included for critical impact on stall speed, VTOL-settling-under-power, etc..

- Simulated Load Demand should ideally be variable, and well matched by variable output, in accord with smart-grid performance goals.

- Efficient loitering flight in low-wind transients is a major flight mode most simulations neglect. This usually involves Loiter-at-Zenith, avoiding the Power-Zone

- Gravity, mass, wing-loading, optimal turning-rate, and many other basic physical parameters are missing in many simulations.

- Most critical hardware failure modes have not been simulated, nor even carefully analyzed in public. "Stealth ventures" exaggerate due-diligence in PR. Sensor-actuation and computational uncertainties are not realistically modeled major sources of real-world failures.

- Parametric comparative simulation across all major architectures is lacking. There no formal analysis validating any specific architectural down-select for exclusive simulation. In particular, many-connected (networked) topological stabilities have not been simulated. Prevailing simulations have been single-units of presumed kitefarm brush-topology. Even brush topology arrays have not yet been seriously simulated, with their special collective failure-modes.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25924	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Developing Kite Analog-Relativity Further- "Wormholes" (ER Bridges)

As long explored on the AWES Forum, in seeking to understand kite flight, it's been found that kites are an ideal educational tool across many subjects, including advanced physics. Kites offer a sonic (phononic) analog of Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, String/Brane Theories, and so on, with both profound correspondences and subtle distinctions.

A Wormhole is a bridge across SpaceTime, topologically equivalent to the handle of a coffee-cup. In both Theory and science-fiction, these Einstein-Rosen Bridges create "shortcuts" between otherwise distant points in both space and time. The term "wormhole" itself was coined by Professor John Wheeler, who headed UTexas' Austin Center for Theoretical Physics in the '70s-'80s. A wormhole is a kind of String in String-Theory. String itself is too.

A kiteline or Tin-Can Telephone act similarly to canonical wormholes when stretched across the sky, striking real-world sonic analogs of ER Bridges. The "God-view" is that speed-of-sound in tensioned kiteline is many times faster than the speed-of-sound in the surrounding air, creating a sonic shortcut for signals. Einstein's relativistic view is to imagine a clock in the line or air as an "observer" who always observes the speed-of-sound as constant from its own point of view.

Imagine then, two sound pulses containing clocks, one travelling in the line, and one in the air. The pulse in the line arrives at a distant point first, and its clock shows less time elapsed than a clock travelling by air arriving later at the same point. Its not just the velocity advantage reflected by the clocks, there would be a further time-dilation anomaly, related to time-dilation by gravity, if the sonic relativity analogy holds.

Contemplating the fresh insights and lingering paradoxes is fine wine.

Wormhole

Tin can telephone

It is a form of mechanical telephony, where sound is converted into and then conveyed by vibrations along a stri...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25925	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: kPower Service Invoice to USWindLab (proof-of-generator)

Doug, once again, you guessed wrong. There was always a generator, and it was visible. The wire to the surface allowed the generator to be shorted, as a standard max-load test. You continue to guess wrong.

Thank goodness your prolific complaints are so poorly based. Its better your exaggerated fears have proven wrong, but serve somewhat for discussion. You should pay fairly to be proven wrong again and again, on your demand, not just be a deadbeat crank.

I am grateful for the long list of close mentors and collaborators who have helped me and so many others progress in AWE. Who does business with you in AWE? Who have your helped? What homestead has your wind tech ever powered? All your complaints about others apply better to you.

Gipe never validated the ST to his standard of third-party certification. We are going for his higher standard. You should too.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25926	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Doug, You've been excited too, more than level-headed Ed. Look at your yardstick ST video, no one in AWE has rejoiced so. Ed is still excited about AWE, and he's learning to be patient and not give up. At least you can count on him as a sworn witness that there was always a generator on the Mini-Mothra Flygen, if you'll pay the Notary and such. You accuse wrongly and do not accept proofs.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25927	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Articles, general

Doug overlooks that wind towers on the landscape are not even in the target AWE upper-wind skyscape. Towers should persist at the surface. AWE aims far higher.

Thanks for "flagging" that article JoeF.

Quote from the last paragraph:

"it’s unlikely such unconventional turbine designs will take over the typical tower and blade wind-power landscape"

note: the article did not include "providing shade" as a form of AWE. Gosh, how could they have missed THAT one?

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <joefaust333@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25928	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "r

Doug, that sentence applies to you. You risk failing in AWE without some sort of kite expertise.

I'll just stop reading after your first 8 words:

"The saddest outcome in AWE is to fail"

Congratulations.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25929	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

OK so now I "do not accept proofs".

There's that old daveS greased water-balloon, finding a new place to bulge out when squeezed.

It bulged at location "do not accept proofs" - except you offer no proof of anything.

You could just show us a photo of the supposed setup.

That would be pretty simple.

It was supposed to be proof of power generated, remember?

I didn't see anything proven, just another one of your "blink-and-you-missed-it" videos.

A kite-show spinner, slowly spinning for a few rotations. So what? You could see the same thing at any kite show, not generating any electricity, so it obviously proves nothing at all.

Now it seems it was never even connected to anything, and you won't even show us the apparatus.

I do not understand why you even brought it up as proof of electric power generated.

Seems more like something you want to say looks like it could generate some power but it was not.

So you're faking it - that's what I see.

I would conclude you did not demonstrate your stated electric power generated.

Er um, I mean "estimated".

My estimation is, it wasn't even connected to anything, so estimated electric power generated = zero.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25930	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "r

Cherry-picking further exotic SE Asian Kite Video Wonders, including Indonesian Lanyangans from ordinary to giant, with multi-hummers, and samples Vietnam's amazing kite heritage, from baroque wind-flutes to knotted stone-age rattan flying lines. Going deeper into Bali, where kites are a terrific window into the famous culture. Like the legendary Polynesians, advanced kite design are paralleled by a magical practice as effective-theory (NASA rocket scientists once wryly developed an aeronautical effective-theory of "Lift-Demons"). For desert; samples of Mexican mayhem in the sky at bottom.

A monster Layangan-

Layangan 12 m prajekan sokorejo

Kids flying expertly from crowded jungle, almost overpowered, cool warbling hummer-

Layangan Gapangan Sendaren Panjang Bukan Kaleng Kaleng

Layangan Gapangan Sendaren Panjang Bukan Kaleng Kaleng dokumentasi dari hobi kami anak desa daerah blitar jawati...

Archaic contest of high art and aeronautical perfection-

Dua Belas Layang - Layang Terbaik

By, Excell

The Old Master, from Stone-Age Rattan Line to Light Kites-

S Việt Nam: Tập 1484 Làng diều Song Vân

Đón xem SVN 20h03 từ thứ 3 - Chủ nhật trên VTV1, Phát lại 6h50 ngày kế tiếp trên VTV3. 16h45 thứ 7 hàng tuần trê...

LAYANG LAYANG TRADISIONAL BALI - LAYANGAN JANGGAN GAGAL MENGUDARA KARENA ANGIN TIDAK MENDUKUNG

LAYANG LAYANG TRADISIONAL BALI - LAYANGAN JANGGAN GAGAL MENGUDARA KARENA...

World's most technical kite video-

Thả diều 365 -Một số mẹo kỹ thuật giúp sáo diều kêu tốt hơn

Qua clip xin chia sẻ một số mẹo đơn giản để tăng cường và cải thiện đáng kể tiếng kêu của sáo diều sau khi làm h...

Also seeing Mexican and Brazilian Hot Air contests, crude, with lots of flaming wreckage falling on crowds, as part of the fun; or fine, almost flawless. Missing a choice video of mid-air disaster art shots-

Regata Globos 2017

Festival Internacional de Globos de Papel San Andres Tuxtla Ver. 2014

Doug, that sentence applies to you. You risk failing in AWE without some sort of kite expertise.

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎June‎ ‎6‎, ‎2019‎ ‎11‎:‎40‎:‎31‎ ‎AM‎ ‎CDT, dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

I'll just stop reading after your first 8 words:

"The saddest outcome in AWE is to fail"

Congratulations.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25931	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "r

Anyone can buy a kite.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Doug, that sentence applies to you. You risk failing in AWE without some sort of kite expertise.

I'll just stop reading after your first 8 words:

"The saddest outcome in AWE is to fail"

Congratulations.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25932	From: dougselsam	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: kPower Service Invoice to USWindLab (proof-of-generator)

Empty bluster. More of your fake future news,

where all progress... remains forever hypothetical, and forever in the future!

I would say "lies", but it is all too stupid to even bother.

The reality is you don't know the first thing about what your supposed demo supposedly demoed.

It was a stage prop, period. Spinning just for looks. Congratulations.

Paul doesn't certify turbines. He's an author and lecturer.

From what I've seen, Paul would not put up with you for one minute.

He's very intolerant of nonsense.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@... #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810yiv2493519086ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-423109673 #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810 #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810yiv2493519086 #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810yiv2493519086ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-423109673 #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810 #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810yiv2493519086 #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810yiv2493519086ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810yiv2493519086hd { color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;} #ygrps-yiv-423109673 #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810 #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810yiv2493519086 #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810yiv2493519086ygrp-mkp #ygrps-yiv-423109673ygrps-yiv-1113328810yiv2493519086ads { margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrps-yiv-423109673 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Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25933	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: Santos' line-laundry - Where is the "100 Watts"?

Doug, There has never been any justice to your shitty accusations, all these years, aimed at everyone, that apply best to your ST lack-of-progress. Of course your wrongful claims slip away under scrutiny.

How much will you wager that the object in the video identified as the generator is NOT just that, and shorting a generator power cord is NOT a true load-test? Put your money up, or go home.

I will provide the close-up photos that prove the object shown in the video is the generator, or pay you the wager.

OK so now I "do not accept proofs".

There's that old daveS greased water-balloon, finding a new place to bulge out when squeezed.

It bulged at location "do not accept proofs" - except you offer no proof of anything.

You could just show us a photo of the supposed setup.

That would be pretty simple.

It was supposed to be proof of power generated, remember?

I didn't see anything proven, just another one of your "blink-and-you-missed-it" videos.

A kite-show spinner, slowly spinning for a few rotations. So what? You could see the same thing at any kite show, not generating any electricity, so it obviously proves nothing at all.

Now it seems it was never even connected to anything, and you won't even show us the apparatus.

I do not understand why you even brought it up as proof of electric power generated.

Seems more like something you want to say looks like it could generate some power but it was not.

So you're faking it - that's what I see.

I would conclude you did not demonstrate your stated electric power generated.

Er um, I mean "estimated".

My estimation is, it wasn't even connected to anything, so estimated electric power generated = zero.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25934	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: kPower Service Invoice to USWindLab (proof-of-generator)

Its not just the largest diameter HAWT flown as AWE, but the Mini-Mothra is a fine kite (larger rotor than Altaeros, flying without helium).

Shorting a generator is its max possible electrical load (real power), which you seem not to know yet.

Empty bluster. More of your fake future news,

where all progress... remains forever hypothetical, and forever in the future!

I would say "lies", but it is all too stupid to even bother.

The reality is you don't know the first thing about what your supposed demo supposedly demoed.

It was a stage prop, period. Spinning just for looks. Congratulations.

Paul doesn't certify turbines. He's an author and lecturer.

From what I've seen, Paul would not put up with you for one minute.

He's very intolerant of nonsense.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25935	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: New Golden Age II- SE Asian Kite Phone Videos (incl. original "r

Buying a kite does not a kite-master make. Good luck just buying a kite and not mastering it, as your preferred strategy.

None of these amazing heritage videos, which you credibly claim you will not watch, are store-bought kites.

Cherry-picking further exotic SE Asian Kite Video Wonders, including Indonesian Lanyangans from ordinary to giant, with multi-hummers, and samples Vietnam's amazing kite heritage, from baroque wind-flutes to knotted stone-age rattan flying lines. Going deeper into Bali, where kites are a terrific window into the famous culture. Like the legendary Polynesians, advanced kite design are paralleled by a magical practice as effective-theory (NASA rocket scientists once wryly developed an aeronautical effective-theory of "Lift-Demons").. For desert; samples of Mexican mayhem in the sky at bottom.

A monster Layangan-

Layangan 12 m prajekan sokorejo

Kids flying expertly from crowded jungle, almost overpowered, cool warbling hummer-

Layangan Gapangan Sendaren Panjang Bukan Kaleng Kaleng

Layangan Gapangan Sendaren Panjang Bukan Kaleng Kaleng dokumentasi dari hobi kami anak desa daerah blitar jawati...

Archaic contest of high art and aeronautical perfection-

Dua Belas Layang - Layang Terbaik

By, Excell

The Old Master, from Stone-Age Rattan Line to Light Kites-

S Việt Nam: Tập 1484 Làng diều Song Vân

Đón xem SVN 20h03 từ thứ 3 - Chủ nhật trên VTV1, Phát lại 6h50 ngày kế tiếp trên VTV3. 16h45 thứ 7 hàng tuần trê...

LAYANG LAYANG TRADISIONAL BALI - LAYANGAN JANGGAN GAGAL MENGUDARA KARENA ANGIN TIDAK MENDUKUNG

LAYANG LAYANG TRADISIONAL BALI - LAYANGAN JANGGAN GAGAL MENGUDARA KARENA...

World's most technical kite video-

Thả diều 365 -Một số mẹo kỹ thuật giúp sáo diều kêu tốt hơn

Qua clip xin chia sẻ một số mẹo đơn giản để tăng cường và cải thiện đáng kể tiếng kêu của sáo diều sau khi làm h....

Regata Globos 2017

Festival Internacional de Globos de Papel San Andres Tuxtla Ver. 2014

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎June‎ ‎6‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎40‎:‎00‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CDT, dave santos santos137@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

Doug, that sentence applies to you. You risk failing in AWE without some sort of kite expertise.

On ‎Thursday‎, ‎June‎ ‎6‎, ‎2019‎ ‎11‎:‎40‎:‎31‎ ‎AM‎ ‎CDT, dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

I'll just stop reading after your first 8 words:

"The saddest outcome in AWE is to fail"

Congratulations.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25936	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: SkySails featured by The Economist

Can't read the whole text, its behind a paywall, but Skysails is at top; congratulations to them for a nice nod from an influential periodical-

An innovative approach to making electricity from the wind

Fly a kite that powers a generator

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25937	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: Re: SkySails featured by The Economist

here's more text, Airborne Wind Europe cited-

High-Altitude Wind Power

From The Economist: An innovative approach to making electricity from the wind Fly a kite that powers a generat...

Can't read the whole text, its behind a paywall, but Skysails is at top; congratulations to them for a nice nod from an influential periodical-

An innovative approach to making electricity from the wind

Fly a kite that powers a generator

Group: AirborneWindEnergy	Message: 25938	From: dave santos	Date: 6/6/2019
Subject: kPower Testing showing SS Power Kites Turning Tightest under Power

A few weeks ago, at Pierre's suggestion, the subject of kite turn-rate recurred in the evolving context of maximizing airspace. kPower started working through its encyclopedic power kite quiver to compare turn rates, to validate heuristic prediction in favor of slower, lower-mass wings.

Using parafoils for session comparison, as the hotter higher-mass baseline, SS kites of the three major types (NPW, OL, and PLSS) were observed turning tighter and faster by equivalent wing area and wind velocity. The hotter parafoil somewhat overshot the heart of the Power Zone, where the SS more closely ruled, especially when both fly short-lined. With Rigid Wing kites based on super-hot gliders, the wide-turn effect is even more pronounced, as any glider pilot can predict. Hot wings can be made to roll and pitch a tight turn, but its an extreme maneuver that depowers and slows the hot aircraft, which then has to re-accelerate up to speed.

This anecdotal kPower result will be easy to directly confirm by third parties. It suffices to watch power kite and glider videos for non-dimensional pattern-flying laws. Its not just the higher inertial mass that makes turns large, but also common lack of vertical keel and/or wingtip/winglet area, so drastic roll-pitch input is needed instead.