Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 25485 to 25536 Page 401 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25485 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25486 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2019
Subject: Re: Bladetips Energy Advancing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25487 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2019
Subject: Re: kPower again Demos AWE at Austin Kite Festival, South Asians att

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25488 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/9/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25489 From: Santos Date: 4/9/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25490 From: dougselsam Date: 4/9/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25491 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/9/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25492 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/9/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25493 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/9/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25494 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/9/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25495 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/9/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25496 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/10/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25497 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25498 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/10/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25499 From: dougselsam Date: 4/10/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25500 From: Santos Date: 4/10/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25501 From: Santos Date: 4/11/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25502 From: dougselsam Date: 4/11/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25503 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/11/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25504 From: dougselsam Date: 4/11/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25505 From: Santos Date: 4/11/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25506 From: Santos Date: 4/11/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25507 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/11/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25508 From: dougselsam Date: 4/12/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25509 From: Santos Date: 4/12/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25510 From: Santos Date: 4/12/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25511 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25512 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25513 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25516 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25517 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25518 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25519 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25520 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25521 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25522 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25523 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25524 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25525 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: New tethered aviation record

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25526 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: NASA Dryden Aerotow Research

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25527 From: dougselsam Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25528 From: dougselsam Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25529 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: NASA Dryden Aerotow Research

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25530 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Perlan Project

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25531 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: NASA Dryden Aerotow Research

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25532 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25533 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/14/2019
Subject: Nasa Power Wing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25534 From: dougselsam Date: 4/14/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25535 From: Santos Date: 4/14/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25536 From: dougselsam Date: 4/15/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25485 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2019
Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
The stability of a Playsail depends on how wide the anchor lines are spread; from unstable if too close, to maximally stable if far apart. Gust stability is also controllable by spread anchors and high Cl (high AoA) operation. 



 


https://youtu.be/sfK3Nh5qqHE

https://youtu.be/6sKXBV8E87E

The playsail looks to be easy to make: a rectangular tarp with tethers in the corners. Is it stable enough?


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25486 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2019
Subject: Re: Bladetips Energy Advancing
Question- Can a tiny airborne particle like a bacteria properly be classed as LTA? Perhaps its electrostatic charge can repel enough air-mass to be fully buoyant (or, conversely, seed precip and gain mass). Also ontologically murky is whether a magnetically levitated mass is LTA, as it need not weigh anything on a scale.

Note about Alcyone scaling; no doubt mass safety limits are a severe constraint. Frangible low-density mass distribution is a key design requirement.



 

In common usage, LTA refers to flight-dependence on lifting gas, and HTA refers to all other aircraft. In actual practice, many dirigibles often fly a bit heavy, for various design or operational reasons, and rely on a little aero-lift to maintain or gain altitude.

On ‎Monday‎, ‎April‎ ‎8‎, ‎2019‎ ‎09‎:‎10‎:‎47‎ ‎AM‎ ‎CDT, joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


 

Recall: 

HTA :: heavier-than-air  (even if slightly heavier, perhaps)
LTA :: lighter-than air   (often hydrogen or helium involved)          




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25487 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2019
Subject: Re: kPower again Demos AWE at Austin Kite Festival, South Asians att
Attachments :
    As it turns out, kPower's AWE demo made the cover of the Austin American Statesman Metro section, as a photo of trainee and  self-identified Solutions Architect, Chris Wentzel, flying the AWES, unhooked, with a huge goofy kite grin. The photo was titled "Lofty Aspirations". AKA got the mention, which is good enough for kPower; that's us too.

    The revolutionary kPower NPW AWES crosswind-loop rig itself was not shown (you had to be there), but the joy on Chris's face puts to rest any fears that AWE R&D has to be a high-tech venture nightmare.

    Photo clipped; not yet found in search.



     

    Correction: "SkyMill" NOT "KiteMill" was intended as a probable first Indian AWE Western partner. Sorry.

    This sort of increasingly common attribution error underscores just how fast and far AWE has grown, from a bare handful of ventures a decade ago, to so many that its an increasing (but welcome) struggle to keep up to date the unfolding story of AWE. Fortunately, the archival record will not saturate nor forget so easily.

    On ‎Saturday‎, ‎April‎ ‎6‎, ‎2019‎ ‎12‎:‎48‎:‎53‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CDT, dave santos santos137@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


     

    For over five years, kPower has been a regular part of the Western Hemisphere's Oldest Kite Festival in its hometown of Austin, demoing AWE by varied small prototypes.

    This year kPower featured a 4m2 NPW* harnessed in a crosswind PTO loop and piloted from upwind. Two novice assistants who had never before flown any power kite had no problem flying the rig for long periods. The dummy load was a 4x heavy bungee on its own stake. The load-motion power was very evident to everyone, and a peak gust actually pulled out one of the Ag soil anchors, a rather monstrous feat for a bit of fabric. The session validated new tunings of the rig, which now seems very close to perfection, and even promises to enable Wubbo's SpiderMill in a low-complexity kite-network design.

    The other dramatic development at this historic kite festival is the loud happy presence of a thousand or so South Asians, mainly Indian high tech intelligentsia and families reconnecting with ancestral kite traditions in Austin's weirdly anarchic kite event. I overheard excited memories of authentic kite fighting culture in fine detail, of how the cutting string (manja) is made, how aerial battles are fought. There were even rumors flying among the Western pros, of manja at last years festival cutting down children's kites like mowing grass. 

    Sure enough, as the festival wound down, I spotted an Indian fighter kite flying both higher and at a higher angle than anything else that day, its line glistening with glass powder. "Is that manja!?" I asked a cohort of excited Indians clearly looking-for-a-fight. The flyer grinned and wobbled his head, "A little bit!". Thrilled to see such authentic folkloric kite tradition airborne in Austin, I raised no objection. The flyer was carefully avoiding children's kites, and no doubt would recover any line dropped. His kite outflew everything else because traditional natural materials are expertly applied and expertly flown close to structural limits.

    A kPower 2.5M2 PL SS kPower kite did get cut down that day, not by manja, but by a runaway children's kite. The cheapest line can cut the finest by sawing across it, as a phonon physics curiosity with relativistic motion analogies. Show kite pros must guard their kites nervously at kite festivals, as quite a hostile-environment. AWE designers should be aware of the vulnerability of having their SLK platforms cut down by almost anyone so minded. kPower made some direct connections with Indian kiters, who are excited to hear about AWE and the Indian projects we have followed (KiteMill was perhaps the first to cultivate West-East/US-India AWE partnership).

    ========

    * Expert kiter review of the same fine Born Kites wing: Not just a poor "rag-flapper"; why he gladly gave up his fine foils for NPWs-

      @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25488 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/9/2019
    Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
    Can we deduce the very high scalability is only reachable by using multi-anchoring with a large space between the anchors?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25489 From: Santos Date: 4/9/2019
    Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
    It's more precise and general to deduce that passive stability of all kites at all scales is controllable by multi-anchor geometries.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25490 From: dougselsam Date: 4/9/2019
    Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
    They have 100 feet of "600 lb safe working load" rope at Harbor Freight for $10.  Bring your 20% off coupon and get a free flashlight, multi-tester, etc..  Tarps also cheap.  $50 or so would allow testing of a larger version.  Plus you get free flashlights to use you run into the night working on it, and a couple of free multi-testers to see how much power you are making.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25491 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/9/2019
    Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
    Good idea. Kpower made Mothra as a huge lifter with tarps. So why not a sort of reeling version for a playsail multi-anchored?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25492 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/9/2019
    Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
    Attachments :
      Consider lateral overlap of stays, so that full left and full right are the only major space costs when arranging a left-right set of many tethered wings.
      image.png


        
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25493 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/9/2019
      Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
      Attachments :
          @@attachment@@
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25494 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/9/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25495 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/9/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

        It is an almost isotopic playsail as the shape is a little different when a corner or a side of the tarp square is facing the wind.

        There is a winch for each anchored station. 



        ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <pierre-benhaiem@...
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25496 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/10/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        Thanks Joe.
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25497 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        Question, Pierre B, please: 
        In your diagram:: Do you intend the large square space to be tarp filled?


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25498 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/10/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

        Yes Joe, there is a central square filled with rectangular tarps. The idea is making a playsail with available elements and without transformation, lowing the cost.

        With a central square a pseudo isotopic shape is more achievable. The four other rectangles and the four corners of the square are in a circle and form the eight main tethers toward the eight anchors with their respective winches, for eight wind directions covering wind changes. According to the wind direction there are two possibilities facing the wind: a corner, or a side with a rectangular tarp.

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25499 From: dougselsam Date: 4/10/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        And finally, replace the tarp with a tower, reduce the number of guy anchors to four, and we are back to square-one.  :)


        ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <pierre-benhaiem@...
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25500 From: Santos Date: 4/10/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        Doug overlooks ancient Playsails predate wind tower practice, and that conventional wind tech is a poor basis for aviation practice.
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25501 From: Santos Date: 4/11/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        Upon review, ancient Chinese history documents kites hundreds of years older than any known surface wind power turbine. We know of advanced Stone Age kites by multiple evidence. Playsail modes were well known to tent nomads. Hellenic art often shows fabric wraps flying exactly as playsails. Sailing is also far more ancient than wind towers.

        It may be that wind towers prove a historical side-branch of wind energy, if AWE is perfected. The kite seems to be alpha and omega in wind tech.
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25502 From: dougselsam Date: 4/11/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        "may", "if", "seems"...
        AWE will not advance, unless and until someone advances it.


        ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25503 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/11/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        Indeed as example SuperTurbine (tm) comes from "Aerial Tramway" (Laddermill) and will return to Laddermill ("Aerial Tramway").
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25504 From: dougselsam Date: 4/11/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        As the dolphin returned to the sea...

        ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <pierre-benhaiem@...
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25505 From: Santos Date: 4/11/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        Comparing the ST and LadderMill with conventional wind and kites is a contrast of historical success. Perfected kite energy needs to be better still.
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25506 From: Santos Date: 4/11/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        Hundreds of kite tech pioneers have advanced AWE, and will continue so. Let Doug solve AWE, to add something to kite knowledge and success, not just post unhelpfully on kite topics.

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25507 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/11/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25508 From: dougselsam Date: 4/12/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        My offhand opinions are more "helpful" than the rest of the accumulated "information".  If Kleiner-Perkins would have listened to me they could have saved something like $200 million on FloDesign/Ogin, and if AWE investors had listened to me they could have saved something like a billion dollars, so far, starting with Magenn.  For my comments to be helpful, someone only has to listen.


        ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25509 From: Santos Date: 4/12/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        No, Doug, your comments have not been helpful compared to actually showing how AWE will be. The ST needs to do actually better than Magenn, not just be stuck for similar incapacity compared to power kites.

        Please start a new topic for your claims.
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25510 From: Santos Date: 4/12/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        The power kite is in a design sweet spot between playsail and hot rigid wing, with synergistic advantages from both extremes.

        Regarding the Spin Bol, the innovation is a fast cheap way to make one, if anyone wants to experiment with Pierre's Wheelwind concept space. Perhaps two counterrotating bols impinging is a helpful path.

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25511 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        Wheelwind ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o4KBW8oqCs ) would work better with a rigid rotor. The torque of a soft Spin Bol would be hardly transferable with its periphery as there is no benefit of traction, contrary to Daisy or Rotating Reel. Or the architecture should be modified.
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25512 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        Dr Beaujean's and my variants use two counterrotating bols to act against each other. Dr B's bols are nestled in-line and mine are side by side. Pierre's single bol design engages the surface and would tend to roll sideways partly upwind.
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25513 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
        Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
        Attachments :

          Here is Joe's design some years ago. The two counter rotating rotors avoid to roll sideway as one rotor does.

          But the torque of soft spin bols would be hardly transferable with their periphery as there is no benefit of traction _ which occurs on a station anchored upwind _, contrary to Daisy or Rotating Reel.

          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25516 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
          Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
          A soft bol can transfer traction force just as a soft tire does. No wheel is truly rigid or completely soft, but "rigid" kite structure does not scale greatly, so a rigid rotor AWES is not a very close model to Beaujean's 500MW bol concept. kPower's 4m HAWT rotor under mini-Mothra already neared a practical limit.
          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25517 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
          Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
          Attachments :

            "A soft bol can transfer traction force just as a soft tire does."

            But in Wheelwind configuration the station receives the traction force, not the generator.

            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25518 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
            Generator station then, the traction force acts regardless.
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25519 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

            For Daisy and Rotating Reel systems the traction force allows more transferable torque.


            For Dr. Beaujean's AWES it is different as it is a flygen.


            For Wheelwind the generator is settled on the (soft or rigid) rotor periphery and on the sea or the ground. If the rotor is soft the torque is hardly transferable unless it becomes a Laddermill-like where the generator receives all the forces.

            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25520 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail

            This discussion allows to see the limit of Wheelwind, even with Joe's configuration with two counter rotating rotors.

            Said limit is the transferable torque as there are two different stations, one station for the generator on the rotor periphery, and one anchored station receiving the traction force.

            Perhaps it would be a little better with a rigid rotor, but a rigid rotor doesn't scale well as you mention.

            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25521 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
            The Bol itself does say much about Flygen v Groundgen. Whatever the PTO basis, we can see the Bol as a sort of rotating Playsail. Apart from that, we know that flying generators add mass aloft, as a strongly parasitic factor.

            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25522 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
            Correction, the Bol does NOT say much about Flygen issue.
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25523 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
            Not seeing Joe's cited bol concept, but recalling many past related ideas here. A new advance may be to see the Crosswind LadderMill as a Stayed Bol, with many lines to windward, not just a simple loop.
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25524 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
              @@attachment@@
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25525 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: New tethered aviation record


            Aerotow at 44k ft, Payne chief pilot -

            (link did not paste here)



            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25526 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: NASA Dryden Aerotow Research
            Not able to copy link, a 2004 NASA Dryden Aerotow testing report with many details applicable to AWES tech. Legacy of Kelly, the great aerospace designer.
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25527 From: dougselsam Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
            "Please start a new topic..."  One of your five or so knee-jerk, pseudo-authoritative, bureaucratic-sounding-poseur responses to just about anything anyone might say, while you go from topic to topic at will, with nobody ever bothering you to "start a new topic".
            Here's my opinion of YOU and how "helpful" YOUR thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of posts have been:
            Over 12 years and many many many thousands of posts, often claiming some superlative status as an AWE "researcher", my take is many of your posts have been in large part non-factual, that in 12 years you have generated almost zero power - I think your highest claimed power was something like a brief 5 Watts 12 years ago, with no significant generation since, and I'm sorry to have to repeat my assessment of your writing of many years ago, that it consists mostly of mere "blather",  A meaningless profusion of nothingness.
            I actually don't think you can point us to any actual original, technical contribution to AWE technology from you at all.  You talk endlessly, but never generate the resulting electricity.  I think you just like to hear yourself talk, (in written form).  I don't believe you are even relevant to the field, and I do not know of any working contributions you have made to advance the field.  I don't see anything working based on your publicly-stated theories.  I do not know of any significant power generation from anything you have built or run. That is my observation, or at least opinion.  Please show us anything different.


            ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25528 From: dougselsam Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
            In my experience, it is often necessary to click on "
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25529 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: NASA Dryden Aerotow Research
            Is this the link wanted?  HERE.
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25530 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: Perlan Project

            Perlan 2 glider 76,000 feet world altitude record flight into the stratosphere



            ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <joefaust333@gmail.com
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25531 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: NASA Dryden Aerotow Research
            It's a good mirror link. Note center tether nylon snubber and tow-low rig. Tow high instability unexplained. Wake exploration. Possible past or current kite records. Guillotine release. Lots of solid art.
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25532 From: Santos Date: 4/13/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
            Doug, playsails and bols are AWE-based, even if you can't admit it.
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25533 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/14/2019
            Subject: Nasa Power Wing

            Some evolutions, plans, descriptions are on 

            https://www.kiteplans.org/planos/teega/teega.html#Getting_the_right_dimensions: "Background
            The Nasa Para Wing (NPW) kites are extremely popular and it’s not hard to understand why.
            First of all, they are cheap to buy and offer a cost-effective way into many power kite sports.
            Second, you can easily build one yourself and there are many plans available on the internet.
            Third, they pack down small and weigh very little so it’s easy to always have one with you.
            Fourth, the time required for setting up to fly is minimal – a minute or two is enough!
            Fifth, they are easy to launch, land and relaunch without assistance, regardless of size.
            Sixth, they have a massive pull relative to their size.
            Seventh, they are virtually unbreakable (but please remember that you are not!).
            Eighth, because of their excellent low wind properties, they have a wide wind range." and "The Teega has an incredibly strong pull which is more evenly distributed across the flying window and holds up better through tight turns." and "The pull generated is very strong in the power zone (straight downwind) but small at zenith and to the sides." as disadvantage.


            See also (within http://2e5.com/) http://2e5.com/kite/nasa/reports/:  "The maximum lift-drag ratio of the single-keel wing shown is about 2.5 while that of the twin-keel wing is about 3."


            These single skin kites could be interesting as AWE use (reeling) at lower cost and allowing a better maximization of the swept area within a kite-farm as the above mentioned disadvantage ("The pull generated is very strong in the power zone (straight downwind) but small at zenith and to the sides.") could become an advantage to keep safe spacing between unities.

            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25534 From: dougselsam Date: 4/14/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
            DaveS nobody said "playsails" and "bols" could not play a role in AWE.
            I guess the thing to do would be to show us rather than just talk about it.
            The problem with your "machine-gun" approach is you never stay aimed at any target long enough to even scare it, let alone hit it.
            Here's my suggestion for you:
            Take the most promising version of the repeating kite arrays you so often talk about, and construct a single module, and get it to work.  Then add more modules.  Hopefully they can synch up and you can show people how "k" can make "power", otherwise, you are missing the main theme of the name kPOWER.  I can easily envision such a working array.  Can you?  It seems like it would not be very difficult to achieve basic functionality.  Then at least, seeing such a contraption work, one could get a better idea of whether it might lead toward a reliable, economical energy system.  You won't be able to fine-tune something you refuse to even try.  You have to build one to see what you are even dealing with.
            And you can probably ignore all the "bose-einstein condensate", the "phonon" theoretical stuff and just attach the kite modules in such a way as to synch-up and naturally work together, no quantum physics buzzwords needed, just probably a few lines of the right length.
            In wind energy, being long-winded counts for nothing.  Actually it counts against you at some point.  You have to build it and demonstrate it or you are considered just one more full-of-it, wannabe, probable you-know-what-case, of which there are thousands.  Finding one decent idea in random wind energy musings is a needle in a haystack.  It is well-established that most of it is junk.  Only you can prevent forest fires.


            ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25535 From: Santos Date: 4/14/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
            No Doug, your advice to not to explore and develop as I do is unattractive to me. Let your advice apply to your own success.

            Powering an entire Japanese power plant by AWE, albeit on a tiny scale, is just the sort of thing I love to do. When I am ready to scale up, you'll know it. It will be based on the power kite, no driveshaft. Go ahead and bet against the power kite.

            Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25536 From: dougselsam Date: 4/15/2019
            Subject: Re: Cool Bol and Playsail
            I am not betting against a powerkite.  Nice buzzword by the way.  Power-kite.  Kite-power.  "kPower"...  I am only pointing out that 12 years of talk from you seem to have led to you now digging in your heels in protest of the mere IDEA of EVER generating ANY power.  Even a couple months ago you were promising power from your latest "technological breakthrough", exploiting "dutch-roll" behavior from a kite, telling me "You won't be disappointed!"  (Translation: "You WILL be disappointed"...)  I dismissed that as more meaningless blather.  The fact that you actually cite as an accomplishment, operating a self-winding watch as "powering an entire Japanese power plant by AWE" is definitely a new low for you and a point for others to note: He will stop at nothing - no exaggeration is too great.  You think he is joking - no he is serious!  This is now his mind works.  100% delusion, 100% of the time.  Nothing said yesterday need connect to anything today.  There is no requirement for him to ever make any sense. No standard applies to him.  He just goes on and on and on and now seems to be taking the stance that kPOWER will never even attempt to generate any power.  In other words he is saying nothing he has posted in 12 years ever meant anything, and you can just disregard everything he has ever said.  Done.  But for me, that was long ago...


            ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...