Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 25129 to 25178 Page 394 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25129 From: dougselsam Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alti

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25130 From: dougselsam Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25131 From: dougselsam Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25132 From: dougselsam Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25133 From: Santos Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25134 From: Santos Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25135 From: Santos Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alti

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25136 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Al

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25137 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25138 From: Santos Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25139 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25140 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25141 From: tallakt Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25142 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25143 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25144 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25145 From: dougselsam Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25146 From: dougselsam Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop - 2 dead

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25147 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25148 From: dougselsam Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25149 From: dougselsam Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25150 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25151 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25152 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25153 From: dougselsam Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25154 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25155 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25156 From: Santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25157 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hi

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25158 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alt

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25159 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25160 From: Santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alt

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25161 From: Santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25162 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Al

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25163 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Search function not working - second try to post this

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25164 From: Santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Search function not working - second try to post this

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25165 From: Santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Al

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25166 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Yahoo Groups Search function does not work

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25167 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: 8-foot-diameter turbine, 12-foot diameter shroud, 6 kW

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25168 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: KiteLab making AWE a little at a time; 2006-2010 (on to 2030)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25169 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: 8-foot-diameter turbine, 12-foot diameter shroud, 6 kW

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25170 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function does not work

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25171 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function does not work

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25172 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function CAPACITY FACTOR

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25173 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function CAPACITY FACTOR

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25174 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function CAPACITY FACTOR

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25175 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Search function not working - second try to post this

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25176 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function CAPACITY FACTOR

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25177 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Search function not working - second try to post this

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25178 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Search function not working - second try to post this



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25129 From: dougselsam Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alti

What a joke.  No YOU are "confused" to imagine I am confused. 
The question was asked "What does CF stand for?"  I answered it.
I understand wind energy terminology is confusing for non-practitioners of wind energy.
Actually, just about everything seems to be confusing for you.
AWE: "land of the lost"
Wind energy: Don't make it more complicated than it is.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

Doug, so far, two distinct uses has been mentioned in this thread as offers for Massimo's voice on "CF"   yet there are in papers related to KiteGen another use also.   It was simply an invitation for the author to define which of three or more uses he intended.   Maybe he intended what you and Dave brought up, but maybe not. It would be simple for Massimo to tell our general readership what he meant for the "CF" in his post in this topic thread.   Easy. We await politely for the author. ==============
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25130 From: dougselsam Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)
More excuses.  Show us anything working at any scale.  AWE: "Land of the lost".
Basically, everything you write here amounts to one gint, ongoing, ten-yer-long excuse for not coming up with any workable AWE power-generation scheme.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

Doug knows that one cannot take "any wind turbine and hang it to a kite" to make AWE easy. If AWE "is easy", in Doug's mind, as claimed, let him prove it. 

AWE will someday be easy, at least for the pros.

On ‎Saturday‎, ‎March‎ ‎9‎, ‎2019‎ ‎02‎:‎05‎:‎47‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, dougselsam@... [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  

Pierre said: "If AWES was easy it would be enough to take any wind turbine and hang it to a kite."
*** Doug says "OK Pierre, well maybe that sentence is worth repeating 100 times and then do something about it.  :)
So if AWE were easy - it would be, well, easy, right?  So why is everyone trying to make it so hard?  It IS easy!


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <pierre-benhaiem@... enough to take any wind turbine and hang it to a kite.

AWES face to three major difficulties: to fly, to produce energy, and to make them both.

So the same negative post repeated thousand times is useless.


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25131 From: dougselsam Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)
I have no idea what you are talking about.  I don't think you do either.  Please explain your first sentence.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@... hang it to a kite" to make AWE easy. If AWE "is easy", in Doug's mind, as claimed, let him prove it. 

AWE will someday be easy, at least for the pros.



 

Pierre said: "If AWES was easy it would be enough to take any wind turbine and hang it to a kite."
*** Doug says "OK Pierre, well maybe that sentence is worth repeating 100 times and then do something about it.  :)
So if AWE were easy - it would be, well, easy, right?  So why is everyone trying to make it so hard?  It IS easy!


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <pierre-benhaiem@... enough to take any wind turbine and hang it to a kite.

AWES face to three major difficulties: to fly, to produce energy, and to make them both.

So the same negative post repeated thousand times is useless.


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25132 From: dougselsam Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)
Yeah sure, sitting around after ten years just saying the most simple configuration imaginable is "too hard", instead of trying it.  Reminds me of laddermill.  AWE: "land of the lost".  Pitiful...


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <pierre-benhaiem@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25133 From: Santos Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)
Doug, What about the Seiko-KiteLab triumph? That was the first pure regulated electrical AWE demo with storage.

It is confusion to not see AWE CF differences from conventional wind.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25134 From: Santos Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)
Doug, the sentence refers to your agreement with Pierre's statement.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25135 From: Santos Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alti
We all knew what CF is, the question is what makes AWE CFs different.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25136 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Al
Doug, the question was not the rephrase you offered: ""What does CF stand for?""
but rather what did the author intend for his use of "CF" ?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25137 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop

It looks like the (0.7 m², weight 0.145 kg) kite made more (regular 4-5 kg) traction in full autorotation (2.5 or 3 m diameter swept area) on only one line, as I released the second line, descending at 1 or 2 m/s (wind speed 4 m/s).

When I tried to maintain altitude by pulling then releasing the second line in each rotation, the total traction appeared to be lesser. It is true that a part of the traction was transferred towards the second line during pulling (not during the full rotation). I wonder what the traction would be if a Delft module piloted the rotation by maintaining altitude. Does anyone have any answers or assumptions?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25138 From: Santos Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop
Control pods impose sensor/actuator/computation complexity, mass, and power issues. There are many possible simple mechanisms to reference a small pendulum mass for loop phase control input. Both approaches should be tested together, along with pilot kite baseline solution.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25139 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop
The apparent wind generated by descending can also be an explain.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25140 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/10/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop
And pulling the second line at every turn can broke the flow of the rotation.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25141 From: tallakt Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h
I am not the greatest expert in AWE [Airborne Wind Energy], but still a professional in the field. I have no clue what CF means, and also I believe most others, professional or amateur know either. In the interest of getting people to actually read things being written in this forum, such abbrevations should be expanded and explained where necessary.

You can blame this on our ignorance and non professionalism, but in fact any professional report using such a term would also explain the abbrevation.

BTW: I guess you might be talking about capacity factor? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacity_factor If this is the case, posting a link as I have done would have cost nothing more than 5 seconds of your time. Also, this term is not well defined (yet) for AWE.

Tallak
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25142 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop
And pulling the second line at every turn can break the flow of the rotation.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25143 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h
Hi Tallak, 

This began when Massimo, in ambiguous technical English, did not define an acronym and Doug used that for his "idiots" theme The presumed CF topic was covered in an advanced AWE context.

Your question is to Massimo, following JoeF, although there are bigger questions Massimo is being asked.

Any KiteMill CF wisdom is welcome,

daveS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25144 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop
Try a push-turn, release other side for turn, or mix both motions.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25145 From: dougselsam Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h
What I remember reading was Massimo claiming a higher capacity factor for his device, when he explained that it could get full power in light winds?  Do I have that one right?  The context, as well as convention, would weigh toward his abbreviation of CF standing for "Capacity Factor".   Degenerating, of course, in this group, to one more typical waste-of-time, waste-of-mental-energy descent into arguing about word definitions, with daveS desperately trying to use it to bolster his ongoing assertions of being involved in AWE, and to dominate all discussions thereof, after ten years with still nothing operating on a daily basis, anywhere in the world, the we know of.  Capacity factor - a new vocabulary word for the perpetual newbies.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25146 From: dougselsam Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop - 2 dead
Here's an example of soft-wing low-radius autorotation a couple days ago:
Crowded airspace with an inexperienced pilot:
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25147 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h
Doug overlooks my AWE CF sharings here. Let him respond to those.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25148 From: dougselsam Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h
Wow daveS thanks for this great ongoing contribution to AWE development.  Yeah we know what the question was.  I gave the answer.  I know - facts are annoying for you.
Maybe if we focus all our efforts on discussing how we discuss how someone interprets what someone else meant by an abbreviation, it can form an ongoing excuse for zero progress for ten more years!  Maybe the CF you are going for is to cause a mutual mental ClusterF***.  Nice.  A great description of wannabe-AWE as a whole. Maybe you guys could form a new "topic" around it.   Without knowing all the details, the meaning of CF seemed pretty clear from the context what he was talking about.  Like in the Emperor's New Clothes, where "only the smart people" could see the garments, maybe in AWE, "only the experts" wonder what CF stood for in Massimo's example.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <joefaust333@... #ygrps-yiv-300752818ygrps-yiv-1197407962ygrps-yiv-1798024300ygrps-yiv-336298664yiv9812012341ygrp-mkp { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;} #ygrps-yiv-300752818 #ygrps-yiv-300752818ygrps-yiv-1197407962 #ygrps-yiv-300752818ygrps-yiv-1197407962ygrps-yiv-1798024300 #ygrps-yiv-300752818ygrps-yiv-1197407962ygrps-yiv-1798024300ygrps-yiv-336298664 #ygrps-yiv-300752818ygrps-yiv-1197407962ygrps-yiv-1798024300ygrps-yiv-336298664yiv9812012341 #ygrps-yiv-300752818ygrps-yiv-1197407962ygrps-yiv-1798024300ygrps-yiv-336298664yiv9812012341ygrp-mkp hr { border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrps-yiv-300752818 #ygrps-yiv-300752818ygrps-yiv-1197407962 #ygrps-yiv-300752818ygrps-yiv-1197407962ygrps-yiv-1798024300 #ygrps-yiv-300752818ygrps-yiv-1197407962ygrps-yiv-1798024300ygrps-yiv-336298664 #ygrps-yiv-300752818ygrps-yiv-1197407962ygrps-yiv-1798024300ygrps-yiv-336298664yiv9812012341 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Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25149 From: dougselsam Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig
"sharings" - sounds like something JoeF would write.  You guys are so goofy.
Ten years of talk.  Or is it twelve?  When are you going to generate any power?

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25150 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h
Whatever Massimo has claimed about KiteGen CF is subject to critical aviation factors. This is beyond conventional wind experience.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25151 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig
Doug needs to understand "we" means an AWE community making electricity, never one small person able to scale AWE alone. Our current electrical peak is supposed M600 surges, although ship-kites rate far higher in potential. Enjoy the progress.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25152 From: Santos Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h
Doug, "zero progress" is understood to be your unhappy opinion. The good news is that everyone who actually works with kites sees a revolution in our time. Take consolation.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25153 From: dougselsam Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig
Seems to me you've spent the last decade bragging about your AWE "research", which reached its peak ten years go when you say you produced 5 Watts.  "Our current electrical peak is supposed" - so you don't even know for sure.  Supposed.  You claimed to be the top something-or-other in AWE research, for the last ten years.  I pointed out you have NOT in fact generated any electricity in those 10 years.   Now you seek to ascribe what you call the "supposed" years-ago progress of the team you consistently debunk, as yours?  Makani's latest story of future success seems like the last man standing of the three horsemen of the fake-future-news AWEpocalypse.  So I guess even though you love to debunk their project, it's all you've got left to hang your hat on?  So now, of all the false promises of AWE teams, you're giving up on ever making any power yourself, and instead trying to take credit for a ~5-year-old claim (?) by the team you debunk the most, as yours?  Crazy talk.
What I would like to see is you take your own theories seriously enough to build a working example.  Start with a single module, then add more as you get things working.  You never know if you don't try.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25154 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/11/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig
And so remains the extant invitation for Massimo to define his use of "CF" in this topic thread.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25155 From: benhaiemp Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Autorotation low radius loop
Indeed the mass of control pods can produce an unwanted momentum effect.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25156 From: Santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig
Doug can decline to suppose the M600 makes power during dives. We just don't get Makani's data to suit him. Another case where data is more public is the recent circumnavigation by ship kite during Regen.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25157 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hi
Thanks for spelling my name right daveS.  I'd be surprised if a plane in a dive could not produce some power.  Seems like one more case of you just making things up, so you can "argue" with them.  What do they call that again, creating a straw-man argument?  One of your favorite complaints of yesteryear, until it became recognized as your stock-in-trade? 

So after you spending the last several years debunking or just plain deriding Makani, suddenly you are trying to ignore their lack of follow-through on every announced impending-grid-feed, and claim that I "decline to suppose" their tethered electric airplane could make any power whatsoever, in a dive????  Actually, whether Makani ever moves forward has nothing to do with me.  That;s back to the typical wind-crackpot technique of blaming the people who know for the failure of those who don't.  It's called "shoot the messenger".  Hey daveS, where do you get the term "decline to suppose" from?  Sounds like something JoeF would write.  I don't think I've ever heard anyone use such a phrase as "decline to suppose" before.  Such stretched vocabulary is a symptom of desperation on your part. 

Hey daveS, ever heard the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes"?  What about "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?  Hint:  The stories are not really about new clothes or wolves.  They are about having the basic common sense to "see the writing on the wall".  (Which is not really about writing or a wall). I know I've completely lost you guys now. 

Next topic: back to what CF stands for in the world of energy (besides Consolidated Freightways)...  :).


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25158 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alt
Newsflash for JoeF: Your little buddy has now suddenly changed his tune to "We all knew what CF was"...
(Shouldn't you reprimand him with "there is no way to say if everyone knew..."  I mean, you've deleted my posts for saying "everyone knows", right?

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25159 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)
OMG now we've seen it all:  "It took Japanese help to meet these concerns. Pending a phone-call to develop gigawatt scale AWE, the latest KiteLab prototype is a Mini-AWECS based on a Seiko Kinetic Drive (self-winding) Chronometer provided by my brother. It converts wildly chaotic motion into well regulated work. Its visible eccentric rotor is a pendulum ratcheted to drive a tiny generator, which charges a lithium battery, that in turn powers a quartz watch movement. Its a miniature model for future AWE ground-stations into megawatt scale."
daveS: Not sure what a self-winding watch has to do with CF, but your statement, above, from 2010, neatly illustrates your level of general delusion, combined with lack-of-follow-through.  After your "Seiko-KiteLab triumph", you never completed your glorious project.  "Triumph"?  OMG!!!  There is no self-winding MegaWatt wind energy system today?  Gosh, I'm surprised.  Maybe you should transition to wave-power or just walking while wearing your brother's watch, and claim it as your own energy breakthrough.  I guess there truly is no limit to how ridiculous your ongoing claims of mastering AWE can be.  Wow, I hope the delusions at least make you happy.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25160 From: Santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Alt
Doug is mistaken that he has ever been moderated wrongly by JoeF. Let him show quotes fairly in making his charactisic accusations. Doug is progressing in AWE insight by invoking aviation inexperience as a proper AWES concern.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25161 From: Santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Distinguishing CF in AWE v Conventional Wind (review)
The Seiko self-winding watch enabled an flip-wing AWES demo with effectively 100 percent CF. As an electric chronometer output, the power was high quality. Doug has apparently missed years of this sort of foundational AWE experimentation. There are large video and image archives for him to review.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25162 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Al
I stand by what I said, which is that I have had JoeF delete at least one message for saying "everyone knows".
That is only one example of unequal moderation through selective nitpicking.  What daveS said is simply not true.  Again.  My last post covers why we are unable to dig up exact quotes on demand, however in this case I did provide an exact quote of "everyone knows". 
Go ahead and look it up yourself, except, well,
a) the search function doesn't work properly, and,
b) the post was deleted.  (remember?)  wa-wa-wah.
Nobody forgets having their post deleted for using a commonly-understood figure of speech which is exactly the same figure of speech daveS just used today, without any deletion or even mention from JoeF.  Apparently, some people are more equal than others on here, but that is nothing new.  Why not just ask JoeF if he ever deleted one of my posts for including the common figure-of-speech "everyone knows"?


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25163 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Search function not working - second try to post this

1) I just posted a message noting that the search function does not work properly, but like many of my messages, it "did not go through", and did not appear on this site.

2) The reason I cannot always provide exact quotes on request is the search function for Yahoo Groups does not work properly for me.  Never has.

Example: I input CF into the search bar and the first return was from back on Jan 7.  Nothing from the recent conversations regarding "CF".

I requested others to see if the search function works for them.  Try CF or any recent term you've seen on the group, do a search, and see if it comes up.  I'd like to know.  Thanks.  :)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25164 From: Santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Search function not working - second try to post this
Doug, 

You still need to provide true quotes to accuse fairly. Whoever is attacked without due evidence should be presumed innocent. They can't defend themselves from withheld evidence.

Past Forum discussion shows CF was understood by everyone who paid attention. Many keys to high AWE CF were explored, that you may have missed, if you don't recall them.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25165 From: Santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: [AWES] Re: KiteG en Research Hig h Al
Doug, If you sent such a censored mail, it should still be in your mail account.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25166 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Yahoo Groups Search function does not work
Try inputting "CF" (no quotes needed) into the "Search Groups" bar on the Yahoo header.  The first reference I receive is from Jan 7.  Not a single recent message using this term was returned.  This explains why I remain unable to provide exact quotes to defend against daveS continued false statements about his previous false statements, such as his exact wording when claiming to be the top researcher in AWE.  It's not that I'm unwilling to look for exact quotes, it's that the search function on Yahoo Groups does not work for me, and never has.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has better luck.  Try inputting CF or any term from a recent conversation, and see if the search function works for you.  Thanks.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25167 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: 8-foot-diameter turbine, 12-foot diameter shroud, 6 kW
I figured this one would be good for a laugh:
Halo Energy
The first commercial unit will be delivered to an Alaskan telecommunications company, whose growing network of remote cell towers and desire to eliminate dependency on diesel generators align perfectly with the Halo Energy turbine.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25168 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: KiteLab making AWE a little at a time; 2006-2010 (on to 2030)
The KiteLab ideal a decade ago was to try to "test everything" at small scale, and study everything possible, for a fun cheap crash-course applicable to future scaling. Soon after came the Mothra, at 300m2, then back to refining standard power kite AWE application in current focus. Its been exciting kite progress from 2006-present, with 2030 as reasonable timeframe of full-scale generation with whatever community surrounds the best architecture. Who makes the most power in the future that counts more than who makes most now, the race continues.

Sub-index December 2010
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25169 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: 8-foot-diameter turbine, 12-foot diameter shroud, 6 kW
Doug, this is more "wrong forum" junk. Talk about why the ST is not "good for a laugh" by comparison.



 

I figured this one would be good for a laugh:
Halo Energy
The first commercial unit will be delivered to an Alaskan telecommunications company, whose growing network of remote cell towers and desire to eliminate dependency on diesel generators align perfectly with the Halo Energy turbine.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25170 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function does not work
Let Doug just be ready to quote properly going forward. If JoeF and I are as bad as Doug claims, he should be able to prove it fast.

If I am a top researcher in AWE, it would be thanks to my fantastic teachers. Let Doug quote that sort of claim with less despair.



 

Try inputting "CF" (no quotes needed) into the "Search Groups" bar on the Yahoo header.  The first reference I receive is from Jan 7.  Not a single recent message using this term was returned.  This explains why I remain unable to provide exact quotes to defend against daveS continued false statements about his previous false statements, such as his exact wording when claiming to be the top researcher in AWE.  It's not that I'm unwilling to look for exact quotes, it's that the search function on Yahoo Groups does not work for me, and never has.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has better luck.  Try inputting CF or any term from a recent conversation, and see if the search function works for you.  Thanks.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25171 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function does not work
Joe's Glossary, in "C", in fact contains Capacity Factor linked to WP-

Capacity factor






 

Let Doug just be ready to quote properly going forward. If JoeF and I are as bad as Doug claims, he should be able to prove it fast.

If I am a top researcher in AWE, it would be thanks to my fantastic teachers. Let Doug quote that sort of claim with less despair.

On ‎Tuesday‎, ‎March‎ ‎12‎, ‎2019‎ ‎01‎:‎40‎:‎54‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CDT, dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


 

Try inputting "CF" (no quotes needed) into the "Search Groups" bar on the Yahoo header.  The first reference I receive is from Jan 7.  Not a single recent message using this term was returned.  This explains why I remain unable to provide exact quotes to defend against daveS continued false statements about his previous false statements, such as his exact wording when claiming to be the top researcher in AWE.  It's not that I'm unwilling to look for exact quotes, it's that the search function on Yahoo Groups does not work for me, and never has.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has better luck.  Try inputting CF or any term from a recent conversation, and see if the search function works for you.  Thanks.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25172 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function CAPACITY FACTOR
OK I just ran across Massimo's quote regarding Capacity Factor. (below)  You two can go back to sleep now.
daveS said: If JoeF and I are as bad as Doug claims, he should be able to prove it fast.
DougS replies:  *** OK is this fast enough for you?:
On ‎Monday‎, ‎March‎ ‎4‎, ‎2019‎ ‎05‎:‎12‎:‎16‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, Massimo Ippolito m.ippolito@... [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

Take-off during surface calm isn't a primary requirement.
If a wind turbine installed on a specific land produce some energy, the KiteGen Stem can take-off. It means the specific capacity factor of an HAWT turn in the Take-off capacity of KiteGen.
KG-Carousel instead has unlimited take-off capability.

m.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

Try inputting "CF" (no quotes needed) into the "Search Groups" bar on the Yahoo header.  The first reference I receive is from Jan 7.  Not a single recent message using this term was returned.  This explains why I remain unable to provide exact quotes to defend against daveS continued false statements about his previous false statements, such as his exact wording when claiming to be the top researcher in AWE.  It's not that I'm unwilling to look for exact quotes, it's that the search function on Yahoo Groups does not work for me, and never has.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has better luck.  Try inputting CF or any term from a recent conversation, and see if the search function works for you.  Thanks.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25173 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function CAPACITY FACTOR
Doug, the needed quotes are those you still cannot find (eg. how JoeF ever wrongly censored you). Quoting Massimo like this is mindless distraction. Try contributing novel technical insights to AWE, not just personal complaints.



 

OK I just ran across Massimo's quote regarding Capacity Factor. (below)  You two can go back to sleep now.
daveS said: If JoeF and I are as bad as Doug claims, he should be able to prove it fast.
DougS replies:  *** OK is this fast enough for you?:
On ‎Monday‎, ‎March‎ ‎4‎, ‎2019‎ ‎05‎:‎12‎:‎16‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, Massimo Ippolito m.ippolito@... [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

Take-off during surface calm isn't a primary requirement.
If a wind turbine installed on a specific land produce some energy, the KiteGen Stem can take-off. It means the specific capacity factor of an HAWT turn in the Take-off capacity of KiteGen.
KG-Carousel instead has unlimited take-off capability.

m.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

Try inputting "CF" (no quotes needed) into the "Search Groups" bar on the Yahoo header.  The first reference I receive is from Jan 7.  Not a single recent message using this term was returned.  This explains why I remain unable to provide exact quotes to defend against daveS continued false statements about his previous false statements, such as his exact wording when claiming to be the top researcher in AWE.  It's not that I'm unwilling to look for exact quotes, it's that the search function on Yahoo Groups does not work for me, and never has.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has better luck.  Try inputting CF or any term from a recent conversation, and see if the search function works for you.  Thanks.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25174 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function CAPACITY FACTOR

Doug, 

     In the topic of concern, Massimo, wrote early just the phrase "specific capacity factor" and introduced no acronym for "specific capacity factor."   Later in the topic thread he wrote

"Massimo Ippolito

Message 16 of 46 , Mar 4 4:27 PM 
... the most important factor in the sensitivity analysis is the CF. "


He had not defined "CF" in his disclosures in that topic thread.  His very strong statement to present and future readers teased me simply to ask him to tell readers what he meant by "CF".  He has yet to reply.   Simple.  I await for him to define his use of "CF".   Others' guesses what he meant is not the same as his anticipated answering.   Simple.     A simple short post by M. for "CF" was the hoped result.

Guessing millions of interpretations might happen upon what M. meant, but clarity would still be imperfect.    
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25175 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Search function not working - second try to post this
Below is a quote from Massimo on March 4 expressing dismay over daveS online behavior over 12 years, described as "maniacal", which is, to me, an understatement.  Similar protestations have come from Roddy, Pierre, Peter Sharp, me, Chris Harrel, and multiple other list participants.
(Note Massimo's previous message did in fact spell out "capacity factor", so you guys are out-to-lunch there again as well.  As I said, the meaning was obvious from the context, but further, Massimo actually spelled it out.)

Here's Massimo's quote from March 4:
KPower is simply wrong. the most important factor in the sensitivity analysis is the CF. Who is Kpower? they have some right to talk?
Most of the giant wheel is the linear alternator, cannot be avoided if you want convert energy. remember that we have the full well specified design of the Carousel.
While is a straightforward concept provide the lowest LCOE in absolute.
Is a dozen years that you maniacally talk of this topic and you are fully of wrong ideas yet, this is remarkable indeed.




---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25176 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Yahoo Groups Search function CAPACITY FACTOR
A personal search problem is not real AWE discussion. This is-

Massimo does not explain claimed equivalence of KiteGen's launch-wind requirement with a HAWT's cut-in wind velocity. HAWTs vary, and so do AWES designs; no power curve for the KG Big Wing is known public.

AWE's community hopes to better HAWT CF by operating high up. KiteGen seems to be conceding that launching with the kite hanging low from a stem, in even worse wind than a HAWT tower-top, is not going to help beat HAWT CF. It may not even match HAWT CF, if the big wing is stuck dangling waiting for strong wind, as predicted by kPower. Let KG evidence finally settle the question.



 

Doug, the needed quotes are those you still cannot find (eg. how JoeF ever wrongly censored you). Quoting Massimo like this is mindless distraction. Try contributing novel technical insights to AWE, not just personal complaints.

On ‎Tuesday‎, ‎March‎ ‎12‎, ‎2019‎ ‎02‎:‎11‎:‎56‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CDT, dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


 

OK I just ran across Massimo's quote regarding Capacity Factor. (below)  You two can go back to sleep now.
daveS said: If JoeF and I are as bad as Doug claims, he should be able to prove it fast.
DougS replies:  *** OK is this fast enough for you?:
On ‎Monday‎, ‎March‎ ‎4‎, ‎2019‎ ‎05‎:‎12‎:‎16‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, Massimo Ippolito m.ippolito@... [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

Take-off during surface calm isn't a primary requirement.
If a wind turbine installed on a specific land produce some energy, the KiteGen Stem can take-off. It means the specific capacity factor of an HAWT turn in the Take-off capacity of KiteGen.
KG-Carousel instead has unlimited take-off capability.

m.


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...  

Try inputting "CF" (no quotes needed) into the "Search Groups" bar on the Yahoo header.  The first reference I receive is from Jan 7.  Not a single recent message using this term was returned.  This explains why I remain unable to provide exact quotes to defend against daveS continued false statements about his previous false statements, such as his exact wording when claiming to be the top researcher in AWE.  It's not that I'm unwilling to look for exact quotes, it's that the search function on Yahoo Groups does not work for me, and never has.  I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has better luck.  Try inputting CF or any term from a recent conversation, and see if the search function works for you.  Thanks.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25177 From: dave santos Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Search function not working - second try to post this
We can agree with Massimo that AWE divergences in opinion are "remarkable indeed" (but not too remarkable). Proper testing will disprove all "wrongful ideas". We have at least made our bets clear regarding driveshafts, stems, side-slip, and so on. Can't wait to see Doug's 1000ft driveshaft and KG's big kite flying. They will fly, if not as claimed.


 

Below is a quote from Massimo on March 4 expressing dismay over daveS online behavior over 12 years, described as "maniacal", which is, to me, an understatement.  Similar protestations have come from Roddy, Pierre, Peter Sharp, me, Chris Harrel, and multiple other list participants.
(Note Massimo's previous message did in fact spell out "capacity factor", so you guys are out-to-lunch there again as well.  As I said, the meaning was obvious from the context, but further, Massimo actually spelled it out.)

Here's Massimo's quote from March 4:
KPower is simply wrong. the most important factor in the sensitivity analysis is the CF. Who is Kpower? they have some right to talk?
Most of the giant wheel is the linear alternator, cannot be avoided if you want convert energy. remember that we have the full well specified design of the Carousel.
While is a straightforward concept provide the lowest LCOE in absolute.
Is a dozen years that you maniacally talk of this topic and you are fully of wrong ideas yet, this is remarkable indeed.




---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 25178 From: dougselsam Date: 3/12/2019
Subject: Re: Search function not working - second try to post this
daveS:  What you are really doing is, as usual, trying to shield your nonsense from scrutiny, through nitpicking & technicalities.  If the search function does not work properly, then it is nearly impossible to find quotes beyond a few days back, and you very well know it.  Your problem is you regularly make statements so ridiculous that a conversation, for you, suddenly turns into "accusations" and "attacks" if anyone responds, to save yourself from scrutiny - as you say:
"accuse fairly. Whoever is attacked without due evidence should be presumed innocent."
You'd like to pretend
1) nobody has a memory
2) there is not a small group of people who read this stuff and know what was said
3) that any response to your ongoing false and accusatory statements
4) that rather than having the guts to stand up for what you've said, your best bet is to pretend you are being unfairly attacked ("innocent") and pretending you never said what you said - or what JoeF said or did - or what anyone else said - same thing.  You two act like nobody is witnessing your constant abuse of logic and people.  We live through it almost every day.  Any doubt was transcended many years ago.  I ws trying to locate n e-mail from JoeF telling me I could not use the term "everyone knows" but drowned in page after page of group-e-mails including several list participants concerned with your lying.  This was during the period the list members went over to e-mail in response to my having been banned by JoeF for telling the truth.
Example: You two have written enough to fill a small book, questioning what Massimo meant by CF, when his previous post cited "capacity factor:, spelling out the whole words.  All either of you two had to do was read his post.  But you would rather turn it into complete confusion (on your part) degenerating into arguments about arguments. 


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@...