Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 24526 to 24575 Page 382 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24526 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Windvogel quasiAWE wins EU Lighting Award

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24527 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Skymill Energy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24528 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Skymill Energy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24529 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: The Sky is Falling- Drones shaking the world

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24530 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Distinguish huge differences: torque-rope drive versus loop drive

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24531 From: Joe Faust Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Distinguish huge differences: torque-rope drive versus loop driv

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24532 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Windvogel quasiAWE wins EU Lighting Award

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24533 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Distinguish huge differences: torque-rope drive versus loop driv

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24534 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Kitemill NEWS

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24535 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Smart Sheathing of Tethers- Possible Applications?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24536 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Kitemill NEWS

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24537 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Kitemill NEWS

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24538 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Implimenting Logic Functions with KiteMatter (review and update)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24539 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24540 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24541 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Preliminary Identification of Statistical AWES "Colors"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24542 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Progress in Overrunning-Clutches and Dual-Mass Flyweels for AWES Sha

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24543 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24544 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Can a tethered model glider beat a soft power kite of equivalent mas

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24545 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Steep Wind Gradient cancels Cosine Loss

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24546 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Power Kite Rigging Notes (novel third-line tri-tether, solving SS fl

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24547 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Third Generation Sled Kite Progress

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24548 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24549 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: KiteLines also Shrink (!)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24550 From: tallakt Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24551 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24552 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Soft Kite Durability "Unresolved"?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24553 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: How to make a soft kite last almost indefinitely

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24554 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Reeling v. CrossWind Cableway: another critical juncture

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24555 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Beyond the Sea Project

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24556 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24557 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Beyond the Sea Project

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24558 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Largest Electric Vehicle as Conceptual Platform for adapting a SkySa

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24559 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Pocock's single-line control-actuation principle-of-action identifie

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24560 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Pocock's single-line control-actuation principle-of-action ident

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24561 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Pocock's single-line control-actuation principle-of-action ident

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24562 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Pocock's single-line control-actuation principle-of-action ident

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24563 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Already bumped from the New Forum :(

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24564 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :(

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24565 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :(

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24566 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Relation of Turn-Rate to L/D (LEI v. Parafoil)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24567 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :(

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24568 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: New AWES Forum is a Gamification Platform

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24569 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :(

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24570 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :( [1 Attachment]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24571 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :( [1 Attachment]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24572 From: benhaiemp Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Relation of Turn-Rate to L/D (LEI v. Parafoil)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24573 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Relation of Turn-Rate to L/D (LEI v. Parafoil)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24574 From: Rod Read Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :(

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24575 From: Rod Read Date: 12/27/2018
Subject: Re: Reeling v. CrossWind Cableway: another critical juncture




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24526 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Windvogel quasiAWE wins EU Lighting Award
Perhaps further note on offer:

1. AWES have line conspicuity issues. The award gives eye toward such AWES realm. 
2. What goes up a line may come down a line. The display invites the imagination in such regard. 
3. That kite systems may do various good works comes to mind. 
4. The display might be a caller to AWE.   An AWES caller to AWE...
5. The display might invite attention on the practical work of bringing light to dark earth-surfaces for various purposes. 

,,, and probably more ...   
???
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24527 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Skymill Energy
SkyMill Energy       Note the domain:  http://www.skymillenergy.com/   is not now serving AWE

The venture may still be in stealth mode.           Principals were: Grant Calverley and Dave Lang.

Nov. 2018, the state of Washington reported the entity: status:       "Active". 
Principals: Grant Calverley, Dale Gluck, Gregory Hastings

"Formed in Washington, SKYMILL ENERGY INC. is a registered business and is a Regular Corporation - Profit pursuant to local laws and regulations. Assigned the registration number 602932639, it is Active."

PES Europe                      2012 article

""The sky’s no limit Pilot trials are due to begin in India in 2012 for an ambitious and innovative project that could harness the power of the winds at over 30,000ft. At that height they blow at over 200mph, so it’s a goal worth pursuing to add to the world’s growing renewable energy portfolio and help ease the pressure on fossil fuels. PES investigates…""    Full PDF HERE

=====================================================
Dec. 24, 2018
Grant, 
     Wishing you and yours the best!
Your notes are welcome, 
  Joe
=======================================================



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24528 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Skymill Energy
SkyMill was one of the most promising start-ups ten years ago. I was honored to help them test on the US NW coast. Dave Lang is one of our legendary AWE pioneers, the founding science officer of Drachen Foundation. Grant did amazing prototyping.

I blame Google/Makani's monopolistic business practices and Bay Area hype-culture for starving out ventures like SkyMill. That's what comes to mind when novices suggest Makani must have special expertise internally. Their secret sauce was never superior tech, just ruthless capitalism. Worse, Makani got all of the scant ARPA-E funding, that they did not need, while SkyMill was passed over. The decimation of US AWE R&D is still evident.

Hope endures to revive all the languishing small start-ups once the bloated venture starts topple by internal rot, and a new round of R&D is established on sounder merit principles.



 

SkyMill Energy       Note the domain:  http://www.skymillenergy.com/   is not now serving AWE

The venture may still be in stealth mode.           Principals were: Grant Calverley and Dave Lang.

Nov. 2018, the state of Washington reported the entity: status:       "Active". 
Principals: Grant Calverley, Dale Gluck, Gregory Hastings

"Formed in Washington, SKYMILL ENERGY INC. is a registered business and is a Regular Corporation - Profit pursuant to local laws and regulations. Assigned the registration number 602932639, it is Active."

PES Europe                      2012 article

""The sky’s no limit Pilot trials are due to begin in India in 2012 for an ambitious and innovative project that could harness the power of the winds at over 30,000ft. At that height they blow at over 200mph, so it’s a goal worth pursuing to add to the world’s growing renewable energy portfolio and help ease the pressure on fossil fuels. PES investigates…""    Full PDF HERE

=====================================================
Dec. 24, 2018
Grant, 
     Wishing you and yours the best!
Your notes are welcome, 
  Joe
=======================================================



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24529 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: The Sky is Falling- Drones shaking the world
Analysis: The fusion of novel AWE concepts with drone revolution is ours to lay out. 

To start, we are familiar with motor-gen E-VTOL in our prototypes, so the natural extension of this capability is drones able to recharge as small windmills on the surface and then fly, or self-recharge suspended from a kite network. The fusion of windmill and free-flying drone is perhaps unnoticed anywhere else.

As for the suggestion on the linked page that airports be equipped with barrage nets; that's not so far out, if necessity dictates, Once again, our special knowledge of how to maintain perpetual flight, by reverse-pumping/circle-towing, and our capability to spread expanses of polymer netting across the sky, put us ahead in the technological assessment of these apps. The nets must be seen and avoided by birds.

Once again, novel ideas presented here are claimed in the Open-AWE_IP-Cloud (AWE IP Pool)


 

Thoughtful and troubling. The Sky is changing before our eyes. Drone defense; the hot new kite app. As we polymerize the Sky, drones will cut our lines. Drones and kites are crossbreeding. Lines in the sky is the prophesized "third shaking of the Earth". Run, run like the wind.




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24530 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Distinguish huge differences: torque-rope drive versus loop drive

Distinguish huge differences: torque-rope drive versus loop drive. 


Variations on torque-rope drive: 

  • Encased cable (rope)   

Doug Selsam has a video of a handheld generator being torque-rope driven using non-encased rope driven by impellers on line; swivel protects the tether near the kited lifter wing. Airborne Wind Energy: Selsam Flying Superturbine Wind Turbine Driveshaft Tethers a Kite. Demo.  


Variations on loop drive   (loop of line or belt or change, ...)
  • Encased loop with one case
  • Encased loop with two cases
  • Non-encased loop          E.g.: Kiwee One by KiteWinder  

Toy kiting string twist hints at torque-rope drive; swivels have been invited to relieve the torque of excessive twist that may arrive from tension, wing rotating, off-reel-end line handling ...





Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24531 From: Joe Faust Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Distinguish huge differences: torque-rope drive versus loop driv
Name-spelling correction to :   Christof Beaupoil 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24532 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Windvogel quasiAWE wins EU Lighting Award
Good insights, JoeF.

Rope could have luminous capability with minimal loss of tensile strength. Power could come from pumping cycles. Many possible variations to explore. Luminous rope could meet updated FAA conspicuity standards without the bother of light-units every fifty feet, units that would hamper spooling.

OAIPC  ("Open-AWE_IP...")



 

Perhaps further note on offer:

1. AWES have line conspicuity issues. The award gives eye toward such AWES realm. 
2. What goes up a line may come down a line. The display invites the imagination in such regard. 
3. That kite systems may do various good works comes to mind. 
4. The display might be a caller to AWE.   An AWES caller to AWE...
5. The display might invite attention on the practical work of bringing light to dark earth-surfaces for various purposes. 

,,, and probably more ...   
???
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24533 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Distinguish huge differences: torque-rope drive versus loop driv
Seeing a rope-loop is topologically equivalent to a torque-tube in a particular way, that both are tori, just radical geometric morphs of each other. The AWES drive loop is very large hole and very flat hoop-tube, seen from the side. The torque-tube is a smaller hole with a very wide band-like hoop extended axially, as seen from the side. The formal difference seems to be simple eigenstate factor.

This is closer to puzzling out the fundamental relation between the two AWES drive architectures. This is a problem other domains have surely encountered. We should be able to soon lay out a predictive proof of AWE drive optimality based on standard mathematical physics. There are in AWE a few higher order factors, like wind drag. Excess mass-to-strength/power is the first order consideration from the aeronautical-practice perspective.



 

Name-spelling correction to :   Christof Beaupoil 

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 6:51 AM joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24534 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Kitemill NEWS

"The company was established by Jon Gjerde, Olav Aleksander Bu, Thomas Hårklau, Tom Løvik, Ole Bernhard Larsen and Tor Audun Kleppe in 2008"

Quote source.   "The company's largest shareholder today is Jon Gjerde"


As noticed on Dec. 24,2018:


Thomas Hårklau 

CEO and founder Kitemill

=============================

Lode Carnel 

technical manager

==============================

Christer Svenkerud,

 control system engineer.

===========================

Sture Smidt

discipline lead for kite, aerodynamics and structure

===========================

Jo Grini

test pilot and kite responsible

===============================

Espen Oland

discipline lead control system

================================

Tallak Tveide

Software Engineer at Kitemill

control system engineer

=================================

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24535 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Smart Sheathing of Tethers- Possible Applications?
Modern braided rope typically has a core or "kern", and an outer "mantle" layer. Usually the mantle takes all the abuse of abrasion, UV degradation, max bending load, and so on. In the past we have studied how a thin replaceable sheath layer might solve most rope wear issues, making large ropes almost immortal.

The idea of luminous tethers brings rope sheathing methods and apps back to mind, and suggests rope "smart sheathing" able to do all sorts of functions-

- conspicuity lighting 

- UV protection

- radar reflectance

- mantle abrasion protection

- mantle dirt protection

- multi-sensing

- damage sensing

- RFID to track rope inventory

- strum- and form- and surface-drag reduction

- self-powered by photovoltaic or piezo harvesting. Low power functionality. Possible net power harvesting

- emergency kitekilling

- etc.

Design challenges include a robust tolerance of local sheath damage, such that overall function is preserved even with considerable damage along the sheath. Mass and cost factors must be kept very low (large hawsers favored).

In a working tensioned rope, acoustic modem communications could be enabled.

OAIPC


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24536 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Kitemill NEWS
Yikes, Founder and HG World Champion, Jon Gjerde, is not on the list of active KiteMill staff. Lets hope he is not sidelined by any trouble in the program. 

KiteMill should now be well aware of E-VTOL and hot kiteplane scaling and safety-reliability-insurability prospects. If these are fatal barriers, as feared by Low-Complexity perspective, KiteMill faces an architectural down-select crisis, of where to migrate their design effort next. They could add a pilot-lifter on an elastic lead, as an upgrade option to add power and crash reduction.

There is also the crowded field of similar projects, like Makani Wing7, WingLift, Twingtec, etc., who surely can't all share the not-yet-existent market for small remote AWES capable of killing anyone in range. Glad its not my software to debug and maintain :)

The deep HG and kite culture in KiteMill is a cultural bridge back from excess high complexity. KiteMill seems to have legs to stay in the AWE game, as the architectural realities slowly sort out.


 

"The company was established by Jon Gjerde, Olav Aleksander Bu, Thomas Hårklau, Tom Løvik, Ole Bernhard Larsen and Tor Audun Kleppe in 2008"

Quote source.   "The company's largest shareholder today is Jon Gjerde"


As noticed on Dec. 24,2018:


Thomas Hårklau 

CEO and founder Kitemill

=============================

Lode Carnel 

technical manager

==============================

Christer Svenkerud,

 control system engineer.

===========================

Sture Smidt

discipline lead for kite, aerodynamics and structure

===========================

Jo Grini

test pilot and kite responsible

===============================

Espen Oland

discipline lead control system

================================

Tallak Tveide

Software Engineer at Kitemill

control system engineer

=================================

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24537 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Re: Kitemill NEWS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24538 From: dave santos Date: 12/24/2018
Subject: Implimenting Logic Functions with KiteMatter (review and update)

Logic gates in electronics are the fundamental machines of the digital revolution. Phonon based logic gates have similar potential. There is current nano-scale phononic computation research, and macroscopic fluidic logic, also phononic, was developed during the Cold War, for EMP immunity. A phonon is any packet of mechanical energy. Any vortex or wave in matter is a phonon, at any scale.

Our opportunity is to apply phononic logic at megascale, in upper wind, or tow-pumped in calm. This logic is embodied in "rag and string", which has been called KiteMatter, a novel Metamaterial class. As a universal computer, KiteMatter is theoretically capable, but in real life very impractical, too slow and expensive. We mostly just need to compute a basic kite flight solutions, with the rigging embodiment as its own control logic. Simple control dimensions of a few bits, are all that is needed to control an interesting process, like matching harvesting to load demand across wind variability. In most cases, simple rigging details are just be like electronic discrete logic units, rather than something suited to build a fancy Boolean Turing Machine or Game of Life simulation.

Many kite logic principles have been laid out many times here over ten years. A tri-tether is a transistor analog with both logic switching and amplification capabilities. A rachet-pulley is a diode analog. Tether elasticity is analog electrical capacitance. Wind in fabric is another kind of elastic capacitance. Longer or slacker tethers are delay lines. Bridles add/subtract/divide/multiply forces by arithmetic logic. These are basic bricks of circuit logic, from simple circuits to universal computers. Formal kite logic inspired by electronic logic could become a standard part of future AWES engineering-science.

An interesting consideration is the thermodynamics of information, after Shannon; because our AWES kite logic is so energy-oriented. There is a beauty to the "conservation of information" as AWES information-energy transforms from wind to grid.





Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24539 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.
Kitesurfing first developed using stick-kites, which were relatively heavy and sank into the water. Soon LEI kites came along, and became the iconic kite. They did not sink and were easy to relaunch from the water. A popular new sport was born. In their shadow were a few Peter Lynn parafoils, adapted to water. They looked ugly, like grand-pa's air-mattress, and were not popular. Along came Flysurfer parafoils, which looked better and dominated in low wind. Everyone knew the parafoil was a superior wing, with a higher L/D and higher power-to-weight, but the LEI continued to prevail in numbers.

Then came a disruptive innovation; Foilboards. Pros soon found LEIs did not keep up with the radical new foilboards, and new racing parafoils emerged as the water-kite winner. The new parafoils are gorgeous wings, with improvements in ram-air valve design, better fabrics, and so on. Such parafoils are now displacing LEIs in mainstream use, including training beginners (HQ Hydra). No longer are kitesurfers obliged slaves to the air-pump, and victims of leaky bladders and higher prices. If the trend holds, the LEI may become an endangered design. LEI inventor, BrunoL, is doing brilliant work to make even higher pressurized kite spars, but a second LEI revolution is a long-shot for now. 

Jalbert is looking down on this kite-design reversal of fortune, and laughing :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24540 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.
Forgot to mention new parafoil water-kite capability to be both deployed and bundled back up from the water, which is not practical with LEI's, which best operate from beaches with clean sand. This special parafoil advantage opens up vast new waters to kitesurfing.



 

Kitesurfing first developed using stick-kites, which were relatively heavy and sank into the water. Soon LEI kites came along, and became the iconic kite. They did not sink and were easy to relaunch from the water. A popular new sport was born. In their shadow were a few Peter Lynn parafoils, adapted to water. They looked ugly, like grand-pa's air-mattress, and were not popular. Along came Flysurfer parafoils, which looked better and dominated in low wind. Everyone knew the parafoil was a superior wing, with a higher L/D and higher power-to-weight, but the LEI continued to prevail in numbers.

Then came a disruptive innovation; Foilboards. Pros soon found LEIs did not keep up with the radical new foilboards, and new racing parafoils emerged as the water-kite winner. The new parafoils are gorgeous wings, with improvements in ram-air valve design, better fabrics, and so on. Such parafoils are now displacing LEIs in mainstream use, including training beginners (HQ Hydra). No longer are kitesurfers obliged slaves to the air-pump, and victims of leaky bladders and higher prices. If the trend holds, the LEI may become an endangered design. LEI inventor, BrunoL, is doing brilliant work to make even higher pressurized kite spars, but a second LEI revolution is a long-shot for now. 

Jalbert is looking down on this kite-design reversal of fortune, and laughing :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24541 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Preliminary Identification of Statistical AWES "Colors"

Every oscillation channel of an AWES generates "colors" under modern power spectrum analysis. These are a shorthand characterization of specific statistical patterns. We can start by identifying natural wind as Pink Noise, AWES output and grid signal as Blue/Violet, and composite AWES power spectrum as White, under standard definitions.

Wikipedia-

"In audio engineering, electronics, physics, and many other fields, the color of noise refers to the power spectrum of a noise signal (a signal produced by a stochastic process)...The practice of naming kinds of noise after colors started with white noise, a signal whose spectrum has equal power within any equal interval of frequencies. That name was given by analogy with white light, which was (incorrectly) assumed to have such a flat power spectrum over the visible range."

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24542 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Progress in Overrunning-Clutches and Dual-Mass Flyweels for AWES Sha
Expanding previous discussion. 

DIY experimenters look for new features in major consumer products to quickly appear in bargain junk-part markets-




One more way to buffer surge and lull of wind and load demand-

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24543 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.
BrunoL    ::   
Two brothers, Bruno Legaignoux and Dominique Legaignoux
Dominique M. Legaignoux
Bruno T. Legaignoux
===================================================

What has yet to be fully explored:  splinted air beam cases and bladders. 
The ancient technology is being coined by some as "tensairity."

===================================================

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24544 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Can a tethered model glider beat a soft power kite of equivalent mas
A fixed belief of many AWE developers is the supposed theoretic superiority of rigid wings over soft-kites, based on L/D and similar numbers. As stated before, the AWES design fallacy seems to be to choose a small "sports car" wing for its amazing numbers, when a huge "truck" wing is wanted, with less flashy numbers. No amount of deeper scaling-limits calculations or expert heuristic reasoning seems to move most rigid wing partisans.

If it could, a fine tethered glider would win in kite sport competition against fabric kites. It would tend not to survive very long in use, even by the best human pilots, who are far better than current autopilots. The answer to the the subject-line challenge seems to be "No".  Scaling Laws seem to limit rigid wing superiority to tiny kites. High Cost of fine gliders compared to soft kites is another factor (power-to-capital). 

How can rigid wing developers expect to out-do soft-kites in AWE, if they can't even outdo soft-kites in kite sports, even just once? Soft-kite pilots and developers are quite Ok with this status quo, and wonder where the unacceptability of soft-kites was ever actually proven. Soft-kite fast pay-back has also been shown a more reliable basis than long-payback of a fine but brittle airframe.

KiteLab Ilwaco's long experience with both rigid and soft wing testing strongly suggests the soft power kite will win against a fine model glider (tethered) of equivalent mass, in any careful fly-off. Operational and economic factors, including insurability, are critical as well. Instrumented third-party testing of this KL finding would be a nice high-school or undergraduate engineering-science project.




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24545 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Steep Wind Gradient cancels Cosine Loss
I was just now flying a PL SS 1.2 over wooded terrain in fair-breeze gustiness (very technical flying). The porous tree canopy naturally created an LLJ just above its stagnated layer. To get up to the LLJ, I simply walked backwards in Tow Mode. My power kite could only maintain flight at high angle, up in the LLJ, and there, at the top of the Kite Window (not quite Zenith) I was able to fly a small Sweep Pattern. The resulting pumping pull force could have been tapped in principle, as the work-out my arms felt confirms.

Steep Wind Gradients based on surface roughness or surface inversions are common kite conditions. What my session showed is the cancelation of Cosine Loss by the steep gradient. There was more power at a high flying angle than a lower angle. The power window was shifted upward by the gradient. 


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24546 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Power Kite Rigging Notes (novel third-line tri-tether, solving SS fl
A separate finding of my PL SS power kite session today was the workability of a tri-tether from the kites third line to my two hands. By spreading my arms, I was able to pull in the third line, to increase "flap" (aeronautics), aka "brakes" (power-kite usage), aka CL or AoA (aerodynamics). Next, I'll test the reverse rig, to add flap by bringing my arms together, for ideal ergometrics at slightly higher rigging complexity. Will report back further results. OAIPC

Another Rigging Note is that well designed properly tuned SS power kites should not have fluttering edges. My PL SS was rock solid against flutter, if not turbulence. Its a matter of properly tuned kite bridling. Every bridle line should be tensioned properly to maintain wing shape and eliminate flutter. Most kites need some tuning when first flown, and maintenance retuning over time, as lines creep longer at different rates. Prestretched lines are best.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24547 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Third Generation Sled Kite Progress
The Sled Kite is one of the great kite types, as the simplest cheapest good flyer that even self-relaunches. Its evolution has three major stages, the primitive first generation sled with two sticks, the second generation Morse Sled with two ram-air tubes and whisker spars, and now a new generation, as further improvements accumulate. The competition is revolutionary PL SS Pilot-Lifters, but like the NASA Power Wing, the Sled continues to evolve.

A new pocket sled design is appearing at kite stores, whose primary innovation is closed-cells instead of tapered tubes, and no whiskers. Its not an Ok kite and good foundation for further refinement. I bought one from old friend Michael Lin, of New Tech Kites of Austin. Its fully soft, so it packs in a tiny pouch.

First I changed the double tail to a single tail with a y-bridle and got increased stability with reduced material (the trade-off is the low possibility of snagging the Y on something. Finding a tendency of the kite to collapse and fold crosswise in severe turbulence, with the ram-air tube mouths shadowed. I burned inlets on the tubes on the kite face and that helped. 

Next, adding back short whiskers athwart the lateral fold line should cure the folding failure mode. I will use super glue to pinch shut the original inlets, and burn the new inlets bigger to approximate an Ozone "sharks nose" profile. Predicting the final prototype will be a solid advance on the anonymous Chinese production design.

Can't wait to see how high a kite-angle a custom sewn version of a third generation sled, of fine kite fabric, can fly. Higher flying angle, more reliable flight, and superior lifting is hoped. OAIPC

Here's Ozone HG shark nose white paper-



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24548 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.
This is maybe Wayne's laugh at every wing ever made before. 

Wayne German conceived a most advanced giant kite structure to be a perfect foil shape of many inflated tubes in a sock-skin that could be blow-molded together into vast wings. His most-logical blow-mold media was hot-water-excavated Antarctic ice pack. There is comparison to drop-stitch/dropline inflatables, as well. Wayne's build concept would be like giant wood fiber grain, of long single-layer-graphene tubes meters-across. He proposed hot-blown HMPE prototypes, to get started. 

Large-scale tensairity can also be done with higher pressure inflated whiskers stiffening the larger air-tubes; no sticks required, from an old NASA tech brief.




 

BrunoL    ::   
Two brothers, Bruno Legaignoux and Dominique Legaignoux
Dominique M. Legaignoux
Bruno T. Legaignoux
===================================================

What has yet to be fully explored:  splinted air beam cases and bladders. 
The ancient technology is being coined by some as "tensairity."

===================================================

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24549 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: KiteLines also Shrink (!)
We may think we know all about our wonderful UHMWPE kite lines, but that's not true; like how most of us have no idea that kitelines can shrink. This reverse-creep effect seems to be related to (pre)stretched lines that then reshorten over time. Some think environmental factors promote shrink, but slow elastic return by itself could be the whole story. Ordinary kiters would hardly notice unless they measure carefully. Never forget mixing lines and replacing lines asymmetrically can result in dangerous kite dynamics. 

Always more to learn and think about "rag & string". Correction to headline below; lines BOTH stretch and shrink-




 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24550 From: tallakt Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.
As a kitesurfer for many years, having spent quite a few of these on Peter Lynn foils, I think this analysis is not quite accurate. Let me also add that I live in a place without open spaces, mostly launching from tight rocky spots.

Safety and handling: LEI kites are far superior as they hold thwir shape and dont need preinflation. Launching a kite from the water in high winds is a lot safer with a LEI. Id go so far as to say «end of discussion» on this one, based on personal experience (and quite a lot of it too).

While foils kites have their niche in anything race oriented, with foilboards being more popular the last few years, understand that kite racing is still a niche. Many will choose a foil kite and foil board to get on the water on marginal days, but the windy days are the reason people are into kiteboarding. Most people dont bother with foils as they are expensive ( both kite and board), and wrt fun its a story of diminishing returns.

Also the notion of foil kites being superior is a falsehood that has been discussed at length since the early daysof kiteboarding. The sad truth is that aerodynamical efficiency is something a kiteboarder usually does not want. Also it has been discussed whether the mass of air trapped inside a foil kite is a reason it turns slower than a comprable LEI kite.

There are som places where foil kites shine (snow due to packing small and races). There have always been foils in kiteboarding. No change really IMHO
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24551 From: dave santos Date: 12/25/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.
Its wildly improbable that "no change" in LEI v parafoil popularity occurs, given such dramatic evolutionary leaps. I am not alone in noticing that the very definition of "Race Kite" has shifted from LEI to parafoil as foilboards have become popular (Kite Forum Race Kite discussion). Let time reveal if the perceived trend becomes unambiguous.

LEI habituation could be like Yahoo Groups tolerance, a blindness to claimed improvements. At least we can agree that software popularity changes over time. If LEI kites start invading land and snow kiting, I will concede the parafoil's loss of that market share. Lets see what flies at the Olympics.

Having flown both kinds of kite, the parafoil's lower mass and higher L/D is not what keeps my LEI in its bag, its that a parafoil comes out of the bag and flies or goes back in the bag in a minute or so, but an LEI takes 5-10 minutes each way.





 

As a kitesurfer for many years, having spent quite a few of these on Peter Lynn foils, I think this analysis is not quite accurate. Let me also add that I live in a place without open spaces, mostly launching from tight rocky spots.

Safety and handling: LEI kites are far superior as they hold thwir shape and dont need preinflation. Launching a kite from the water in high winds is a lot safer with a LEI. Id go so far as to say «end of discussion» on this one, based on personal experience (and quite a lot of it too).

While foils kites have their niche in anything race oriented, with foilboards being more popular the last few years, understand that kite racing is still a niche. Many will choose a foil kite and foil board to get on the water on marginal days, but the windy days are the reason people are into kiteboarding. Most people dont bother with foils as they are expensive ( both kite and board), and wrt fun its a story of diminishing returns.

Also the notion of foil kites being superior is a falsehood that has been discussed at length since the early daysof kiteboarding. The sad truth is that aerodynamical efficiency is something a kiteboarder usually does not want. Also it has been discussed whether the mass of air trapped inside a foil kite is a reason it turns slower than a comprable LEI kite.

There are som places where foil kites shine (snow due to packing small and races). There have always been foils in kiteboarding. No change really IMHO

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24552 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Soft Kite Durability "Unresolved"?
Reply to "Unresolved" soft kite durability on New Forum. Rigid kite survival even to soft-kite lifespan also unresolved.

SkySails at AWEC 2011 presented cost analysis showing fast soft-kite payback, in weeks, well within conservative short life estimates of a few months of high-duty. Stephen Brabeck's wry conclusion was "we'll just sell more kites". 

At the same conference, Corwin Hardham presented Makani's five-year payback estimate for its rigid wing architecture, without regard to crash probability during the five-year period.

What is most missed is open crash statistics to show just how far rigid wing automation reliability is from reaching payback. AWE venture stealth on these questions is not ethical to investors or the world.

Comparative power curves are also missing, but what evidence exists is telling, that highest power-to-weight soft kites seem favored, not just in kite sports, but for AWES prospects scaling up.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24553 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: How to make a soft kite last almost indefinitely
KiteLab Ilwaco and kPower have still failed to wear out any mainstay kite, despite many years of trying. The kites mostly look almost new, but they have been well cared for.

The secrets are as follows-

- Never pack a kite away wet. There are bacteria that eat polymers.

- Fly with professional judgement. Match kite to wind. Stay within working load of the polymers.

- Repair kites as soon as a seam starts to fail or an abrasion hole appears. This only takes seconds in the field.

- Renew UV protective fabric sizing in high UV regions. Resize when the aging kite starts to become porous.

- Don't be afraid to test kites to destruction, as a researcher. Kite Sport novices often abuses of kites, just watch. 

That's about it. A modern kite is a tough animal in wind, and just needs reasonable care to last a few thousand flying hours. Try and kill-off a kite in harsh practice, its not easy. 

I tore a handmade Culp OL prototype almost in half with a large flipwing tail. A local kiteshop on the Oregon Coast sewed it back together for free, as they do for any kiter in the area, that's how trivial major repair is. 

Specialists make good money repairing kites, if they can get the work now that kites are lasting so long. Its the knowledge that counts, the repair is generally done in minutes.

Rigid wing care is far more exacting, complex, and troublesome, as aviation practice confirms. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24554 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Reeling v. CrossWind Cableway: another critical juncture
Perhaps the biggest architectural question looming in AWE is whether the future goes to reeling up- and down-wind, with high cycle losses, or to crosswind cableway motion, which requires reorienting the cableway crosswind in common veering wind locations.

There are two paths to sort out this grand contest. The slow path, the one we are on, is to "let the market decide". Competing stealth ventures come and go, and eventually a market winner must emerge. The fast path is a true "moon shot" program of optimal experimental design, testing everything comprehensively in a data-driven scoring matrix process, and let investment flood in based on the results.

We all have biases, based on lived experience. Riggers, climbers, sailors, pilots will tend to see in the crosswind cable way the ultimate load motion geometry in reach by a hard-labor method. Reeling folks tend to come from industrial automation and academic backgrounds, and see in reeling a basic workable starting functionality. They tend to believe in total automation, that AWE users should be able to just push a button (launch-and-forget).

This is the grand AWE contest. Seriously overlooked approaches, good and bad, have not been allowed to play fairly on a scientific playing field. Hundreds of millions of venture funds are being concentrated on reeling and rigid wings, while crosswind load motion and soft kites get by on scraps. This is as it should be under the Cinderella model, where undue starting advantages do not prevail, but are in fact fatal liabilities*. The grand phase of the AWE contest cannot be forever delayed by stealth venture cultural monopolization, and when the proper fly-off starts, what great fun it will be.

====
* "last starship, more advanced, arrives first" tech paradox
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24555 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Beyond the Sea Project

Note: We have in forum some other notes coming out of the Beyond the Sea Project. 

================================================================


Fresh note: 

  • November 2018
  • Conference: 16ième journées de l'hydrodynamique
  • At: Marseille, France
  • Authors: 

  • M Behrel
  • Kostia Roncin
  • R Hascoet
  • J.-B Leroux
  • F Montel
  • Y Parlier
  • Project: beyond the sea project

  • Abstract
  • This paper presents sea trials on a 6-meter boat specifically designed for kite propulsion. The kite control is automatic or manual, dynamic or static, depending on the point of sailing. The measurement system records boat motion and loads generated by the kite. A particular attention was payed for wind measurement with several fixed and mobile locations directly on the kiteboat or in the vicinity. A fine modelling shows that a classical power low is not satisfactory to describe the wind at kite location. 5-minute measurement phase were systematically recorded. At the end, 101 runs were conducted. Data are processed with the phase-averaging method in order to produce reliable results. First results are presented.

  • ============================================
Thanks to Roland Schmehl for the lead to this paper. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24556 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Who is laughing now? Parafoils displacing LEI kites on Water.
Wanting to reply in greater depth to Tallak's points. 

I don't doubt your practice is safer with the kite type he prefers. My argument was not even that parafoil water-kites are safer, but picked up on the success in foil-board racing. Foil boards are more dangerous than a simple board as well.

There is also an emotional connection with Jalbert's legacy via his apprentice and our colleague, Roy Mueller. We are rooting for our home team a bit. We see Bruno as part of Culp's legacy as well, in Bruno's own words. You may similarly see Bruno as your guy, via his KiteMill association, but how is a glider-drone Bruno's legacy?

Do you really unbundle your LEI and inflate in the water, and deflate and bundle in the water, as we have seen done with parafoils by a couple of pros? Yes one can get by pumping the LEI up in any patch of free shore, and wade out to stretch the lines for launch, but that's not the norm.

The fast turning rate of LEIs owes more to their more curved Bow and C shapes than a supposed advantage in less internal air mass (which cancels against greater mass of LEI bladder spars). More curved kites have both more vertical "rudder-keel" area for carving turns, and the wingtips are more tucked in, like a skater spinning. Parafoils are flatter wings laterally, by their bridling, with associated advantages in non-turning factors.

A taste for high wind is like a taste for racing. Both are great, but not the only thing. You reason that parafoil dominance is relegated to racing while arguing that high wind is what kitesurfing is mainly about; a bit contradictory. 

In fact, kitesurfing in lightest wind is its own beautiful specialty skill, and the parafoil dominates. In lightest wind relative safety to LEIs does not count if the LEIs are grounded (the safest state). In AWE, light wind will often be the most-probable condition seasonally and regionally, so high-wind taste does not count then.

All our questions are open until tested and validated by multiple parties. Every theoretic prediction, however probable seeming, needs to be tested, to settle all doubts, including outside investor doubts caused by venture hype.




Thank you, Luke.

Am very excited about the uptick in public AWE discussion, on a higher level than ever before.

On ‎Wednesday‎, ‎December‎ ‎26‎, ‎2018‎ ‎12‎:‎16‎:‎12‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, hawp <hawp@posteo.de


I manually activated your account. You should be able to access the
dorum now. If emails from the forum don't reach you in the future,
please let me know!
Luke Tospace

Am 26.12.2018 17:04 schrieb dave santos:
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24557 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Beyond the Sea Project
Wow, Beyond the Sea is a fresh steam of quality ship kite research in AWE, with a flood of new papers aimed at the formidable technical sailing world. A lot of this new material is useful to reference against results from Culp's old lineage and SkySails's accomplishments.

One point popped out in first review of the papers, how even modest (35m2) LEI kites buckle in excessive conditions, or just by natural pressure loss. On the other hand, we marvel at how parafoils stiffen progressively with higher velocity, and never need repumping in ultralong sessions.

AWES LEI dependence will require onboard airpumps for endurance. Speaking of kitesurfing safety, it could happen that LEI fails far from shore while a parafoil would have made it back safely.

See this paper for LEI buckling, something KiteShip and SkySails avoided by design, and now the great Yves Parlier must decide if the LEI is a serious down-select or a scaling dead-end. The various ~50m2 LEIs in AWE R&D seem to bump at the practical scaling limit, for inherent physics and operational reasons.

"Phase Averaging" is a term to apply in our discussions of cycle-loss, harvest pattern flying, and related.







 

Note: We have in forum some other notes coming out of the Beyond the Sea Project. 

================================================================


Fresh note: 

  • November 2018
  • Conference: 16ième journées de l'hydrodynamique
  • At: Marseille, France
  • Authors: 

  • M Behrel
  • Kostia Roncin
  • R Hascoet
  • J.-B Leroux
  • F Montel
  • Y Parlier
  • Project: beyond the sea project

  • Abstract
  • This paper presents sea trials on a 6-meter boat specifically designed for kite propulsion. The kite control is automatic or manual, dynamic or static, depending on the point of sailing. The measurement system records boat motion and loads generated by the kite. A particular attention was payed for wind measurement with several fixed and mobile locations directly on the kiteboat or in the vicinity. A fine modelling shows that a classical power low is not satisfactory to describe the wind at kite location. 5-minute measurement phase were systematically recorded. At the end, 101 runs were conducted. Data are processed with the phase-averaging method in order to produce reliable results. First results are presented.

  • ============================================
Thanks to Roland Schmehl for the lead to this paper. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24558 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Largest Electric Vehicle as Conceptual Platform for adapting a SkySa
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24559 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Pocock's single-line control-actuation principle-of-action identifie
Pocock revolutionized single-line control almost two hundred years ago by shifting tension between an outer mantle and inner kern. This idea somehow never caught on, but obviously worked well in its day.

It can seem that tensioning the mantle would lock the kern uselessly, like a "finger trap", but a KiteLab Ilwaco reenactment experiment, about ten years ago, worked just fine.

Upon analysis, its apparent that as tension shifts from mantle to kern, the mantle diameter relaxes and the kern diameter contracts, and runs freely. The key design precondition is for the mantle to fit rather loose over the kern. Silicone lubricant might make the action even smoother.

It would be great to know just how far this method could be extended in various design contexts of distance and forces.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24560 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Pocock's single-line control-actuation principle-of-action ident



---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24561 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Pocock's single-line control-actuation principle-of-action ident

Consider the potential of the compound line being a generator of electrical; the change of position of the core and sheath might be mined.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24562 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Pocock's single-line control-actuation principle-of-action ident
Great Idea, JoeF.

As a piezo and/or triboelectric method, it might be magic. Internal friction line deicing is also possible, although ice buildup tends to shed a flexible surface anyway.

The problem for a linear electric motor basis would be relative high mass due to slow load-motion inefficiency.

This concept space applies to recent smart-sheath topic.



 


Consider the potential of the compound line being a generator of electrical; the change of position of the core and sheath might be mined.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24563 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Already bumped from the New Forum :(
Well, I broke it, Sorry.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24564 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :(
My first day posting on the New Forum, about kite networks, invoking Wubbo's suppressed SpiderMill giving Rod his due, but got the infamous screen-of-death, with a window I had to press OK to get rid of, that said-

"You’ve reached the maximum number of replies a new user can create on their first day. Please wait 18 hours before trying again."

Apparently the AIs have turned malevolent all of sudden, determined to quash our one hope as humans, Wubbo's SpiderMill. 

This was the suppressed post-

I see faint hope for the single wing folks to technically compete in multi-wing design unless they keep up with the innovators. Instead, I think multi-wing leaders will be so far ahead in new art that the single wing investors will have to do M&A; either buy in or be bought out for residual value.
 
An open issue is whether ventures will respect Open-AWE CC IP multi wing art, where many ideas first emerged. Wayne and Rod is a great examples multi-wing (kite-networks) pioneers, but they be hired or otherwise paid their due? Kite-Network Mexicans are paid in badges and automatic text changes, a cruel bargain.

KPS is seen as the best current prospect for a managerial leadership of possible kite-network architectures R&D, while their technical work seems like futzing. But this same opportunity, to lead all of AWE to kite-network research, has been dropped by Makani, TUDleft, KiteGen, etc.

If only Wubbo was still alive! He died with kite-networks dancing in his mind (Spidermills).

----- posting blocked -----

Oh, the bit about badges and Mexicans, that's another bug of the New Forum software. I was automatically "earning badges" and complained about that. How about a badge for crashing the account.

Seemingly only Yahoo Forums are so backwards as to have survived the AI takeover. Going out and see if the skyline is in flames. Hope a self-driving car does not see me.








 

Well, I broke it, Sorry.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24565 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :(
Attachments :
    No red glow in the distance; Austin must have ready burned down. Not sure if its just me and Peter Lynn Clan still alive. Hoping next to draw the AIs into the catacombs of Yahoo, where they will get stuck by a "Yahoo Not Responding" event. 

    Then got to get a grip on this New Forum Badges war...Ok here goes, if you see my New Forum weapons-grade KiteFreak user image, the AIs have been defeated, for now-

    Inline image








     

    My first day posting on the New Forum, about kite networks, invoking Wubbo's suppressed SpiderMill giving Rod his due, but got the infamous screen-of-death, with a window I had to press OK to get rid of, that said-

    "You’ve reached the maximum number of replies a new user can create on their first day. Please wait 18 hours before trying again."

    Apparently the AIs have turned malevolent all of sudden, determined to quash our one hope as humans, Wubbo's SpiderMill. 

    This was the suppressed post-

    I see faint hope for the single wing folks to technically compete in multi-wing design unless they keep up with the innovators. Instead, I think multi-wing leaders will be so far ahead in new art that the single wing investors will have to do M&A; either buy in or be bought out for residual value.
     
    An open issue is whether ventures will respect Open-AWE CC IP multi wing art, where many ideas first emerged. Wayne and Rod is a great examples multi-wing (kite-networks) pioneers, but they be hired or otherwise paid their due? Kite-Network Mexicans are paid in badges and automatic text changes, a cruel bargain.

    KPS is seen as the best current prospect for a managerial leadership of possible kite-network architectures R&D, while their technical work seems like futzing. But this same opportunity, to lead all of AWE to kite-network research, has been dropped by Makani, TUDleft, KiteGen, etc.

    If only Wubbo was still alive! He died with kite-networks dancing in his mind (Spidermills).

    ----- posting blocked -----

    Oh, the bit about badges and Mexicans, that's another bug of the New Forum software. I was automatically "earning badges" and complained about that. How about a badge for crashing the account.

    Seemingly only Yahoo Forums are so backwards as to have survived the AI takeover. Going out and see if the skyline is in flames. Hope a self-driving car does not see me.






    On ‎Wednesday‎, ‎December‎ ‎26‎, ‎2018‎ ‎07‎:‎26‎:‎44‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, dave santos santos137@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


     

    Well, I broke it, Sorry.
      @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24566 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
    Subject: Relation of Turn-Rate to L/D (LEI v. Parafoil)
    Conjecture- Maximum Turn-Rate inversely proportional to L/D.

    Heuristic Proof- A level wing has max L/D potential at zero turn rate. At 90deg bank angle a wing has max turn rate potential, but zero L/D.

    Context- higher turn rate of a typical LEI v higher L/D of a typical parafoil.

    Conclusion- LEIs favored short-lined for fast turning in small power zone. Parafoils favored long-line for large power zone with slower turning. Parafoils therefore favored to reach better higher wind. Greater parafoil power-to-mass also promotes carrying a stronger longer tether higher.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24567 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/26/2018
    Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :(
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24568 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
    Subject: New AWES Forum is a Gamification Platform
    The word on the New Forum us that the platform gamification features (badges) are hard to defeat. My initial impression was not mistaken, Gamification badges are a weird new insult to human dignity, worth defeating if possible. Lets see how hard to defeat the gamification really is, if they want us play. 

    Also who ends up owning New Forum data? Yahoo's terms have been changing as well, but new terms since the sell-off have not been enforced yet. Maybe if we post a legal notice to Yahoo on Yahoo, we can later claim better content rights.

    What's next? Small hooks will hold our eyelids open while tailored advertising is streamed :)




    Wikipedia-

    Gamification Criticism[edit]

    University of Hamburg researcher Sebastian Deterding has characterized the initial popular strategies for gamification as not being fun and creating an artificial sense of achievement. He also says that gamification can encourage unintended behaviours.[101]

    In a review of 132 of the top health and fitness apps in the Apple app store, in 2014, using gamification as a method to modify behavior, the authors concluded that "Despite the inclusion of at least some components of gamification, the mean scores of integration of gamification components were still below 50 percent. This was also true for the inclusion of game elements and the use of health behavior theory constructs, thus showing a lack of following any clear industry standard of effective gaming, gamification, or behavioral theory in health and fitness apps."[43]

    Concern was also expressed in a 2016 study analyzing outcome data from 1298 users who competed in gamified and incentivized exercise challenges while wearing wearable devices. In that study the authors conjectured that data may be highly skewed by cohorts of already healthy users, rather than the intended audiences of participants requiring behavioral intervention.[102]

    Game designers like Jon Radoff and Margaret Robertson have also criticized gamification as excluding elements like storytelling and experiences and using simple reward systems in place of true game mechanics.[103][104]

    Gamification practitioners[105][106] have pointed out that while the initial popular designs were in fact mostly relying on simplistic reward approach, even those led to significant improvements in short-term engagement.[107] This was supported by the first comprehensive study in 2014, which concluded that an increase in gamification elements correlated with an increase in motivation score, but not with capacity or opportunity/trigger scores.[43][108]

    The same study called for standardization across the app industry on gamification principles to improve the effectiveness of health apps on the health outcomes of users.[43]

    MIT Professor Kevin Slavin has described business research into gamification as flawed and misleading for those unfamiliar with gaming.[109] Heather Chaplin, writing in Slate, describes gamification as "an allegedly populist idea that actually benefits corporate interests over those of ordinary people".[110] Jane McGonigal has distanced her work from the label "gamification", listing rewards outside of gameplay as the central idea of gamification and distinguishing game applications where the gameplay itself is the reward under the term "gameful design".[111]

    "Gamification" as a term has also been criticized. Ian Bogost has referred to the term as a marketing fad and suggested "exploitation-ware" as a more suitable name for the games used in marketing.[112] Other opinions on the terminology criticism have made the case why the term gamification makes sense.[113] 




    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24569 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
    Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :(

    Thanks JoeF. Here's the little GitHub bastard code that shut me down.

    Inline image

    Now to track it back to its lair-server to slay it. @discobot, hasta la vista baby.

    Here's its trail-





      @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24570 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
    Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :( [1 Attachment]
    Attachments :
      So the New Forum runs on Norwegian black-ice by 

      He can disable the badges, he made them.

      If the discobot image did not show in previous post, see attached


       
      [Attachment(s) from dave santos included below]


      Thanks JoeF. Here's the little GitHub bastard code that shut me down.

      Inline image

      Now to track it back to its lair-server to slay it. @discobot, hasta la vista baby.

      Here's its trail-





      On ‎Wednesday‎, ‎December‎ ‎26‎, ‎2018‎ ‎10‎:‎02‎:‎59‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


        @@attachment@@
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24571 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
      Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :( [1 Attachment]
      Well, it turns out discobot is just Erlend Sogge Heggen's sock-puppet, not some superhuman Machiavellian AI. I was not really scared. 

      Discourse should be able to make the badges a settings option in a future release.












       
      [Attachment(s) from dave santos included below]

      So the New Forum runs on Norwegian black-ice by 

      He can disable the badges, he made them.

      If the discobot image did not show in previous post, see attached
      On ‎Wednesday‎, ‎December‎ ‎26‎, ‎2018‎ ‎10‎:‎55‎:‎00‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, dave santos santos137@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


       
      [Attachment(s) from dave santos included below]


      Thanks JoeF. Here's the little GitHub bastard code that shut me down.

      Inline image

      Now to track it back to its lair-server to slay it. @discobot, hasta la vista baby.

      Here's its trail-





      On ‎Wednesday‎, ‎December‎ ‎26‎, ‎2018‎ ‎10‎:‎02‎:‎59‎ ‎PM‎ ‎CST, joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24572 From: benhaiemp Date: 12/26/2018
      Subject: Re: Relation of Turn-Rate to L/D (LEI v. Parafoil)
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GflQyDDQec: 0.7 m² crosswind kite: 4 kg traction with a low radius, 6 kg traction with a larger radius. The low radius could allow using less space with reasonable losses in efficiency.
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24573 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2018
      Subject: Re: Relation of Turn-Rate to L/D (LEI v. Parafoil)
      Nice Looping Foil.  How did you keep it from falling as it looped?

      PTO line max pumping force at 4 o'clock when clockwise kite passes 7 o'clock



       

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GflQyDDQec: 0.7 m² crosswind kite: 4 kg traction with a low radius, 6 kg traction with a larger radius. The low radius could allow using less space with reasonable losses in efficiency.

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24574 From: Rod Read Date: 12/26/2018
      Subject: Re: Already bumped from the New Forum :(
      That's cool. You're trying the new comms. 
      Excellent theres a chance now humans can group your messages into coherent chapters. 
      I was a wee bit concerened at first too.... Started making assumptions and being wrong for the right reasons... Lack of experience... But it works well... 
      I find its not such an urgent... You must reply now format as Yahoo with email. 
      I was initially a bit perterbed with badges and limits... It's not hard to wait. 

      Think I Like your icon thingy. Had you pictured as more of a Vlad the Impaler. 
      (maybe thats who it is)? 

      Joy and hope to the world of AWES

      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 24575 From: Rod Read Date: 12/27/2018
      Subject: Re: Reeling v. CrossWind Cableway: another critical juncture
      There is a special case of a 
      driven crosswind cableway loop
      The shaft
      Weirdly a shaft of tethers spun around the axis will work for kite power transmission. 
      Who knew