Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 23277 to 23326 Page 358 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23277 From: dave santos Date: 12/17/2017
Subject: Further formalizations of kite states

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23278 From: dave santos Date: 12/17/2017
Subject: Re: Further formalizations of kite states

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23279 From: dave santos Date: 12/17/2017
Subject: Daisy AWES as "Heavy Sound" Analog

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23280 From: dave santos Date: 12/17/2017
Subject: KPS hiring

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23281 From: dave santos Date: 12/18/2017
Subject: Refining Kite Network Lattice Wave Mechanics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23282 From: dave santos Date: 12/19/2017
Subject: Feel more AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23283 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/20/2017
Subject: Re: Water Abundance XPRIZE: DEADLINE REMINDER - Team Presentation We

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23284 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/25/2017
Subject: Re: Feel more AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23285 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 12/26/2017
Subject: Re: Feel more AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23286 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2017
Subject: Re: Feel more AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23287 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2017
Subject: Root Cause for Despair and Angst in High-Complexity AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23288 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/27/2017
Subject: Re: Water Abundance XPRIZE: DEADLINE REMINDER - Team Presentation We

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23289 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/27/2017
Subject: UNIVERSITAT BONN

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23290 From: dave santos Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Re: UNIVERSITAT BONN

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23291 From: dave santos Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Vital Role of Citizen Science in AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23292 From: dave santos Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Formal identification of qubit encoding in tri-tether rigging

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23293 From: Christian Harrell Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Dynamic soaring in a Sailplane, Could this be adapted for kite power

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23294 From: dave santos Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Re: Dynamic soaring in a Sailplane, Could this be adapted for kite p

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23295 From: dave santos Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Re: Dynamic soaring in a Sailplane, Could this be adapted for kite p

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23296 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Re: UNIVERSITAT BONN

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23297 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Overview article for AWE. 2015, November

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23298 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: AWES tether has drag

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23299 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: KiteX

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23300 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: "Hard Kite"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23301 From: dave santos Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Re: AWES tether has drag

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23302 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Historic power from kites depicted in religious art

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23303 From: dave santos Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Re: Historic power from kites depicted in religious art

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23304 From: Joe Faust Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: just getting started

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23305 From: dave santos Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Re: KiteX

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23306 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Makani spring test, 36 min video version

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23307 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Sergei Lupashin

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23308 From: dave santos Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Re: Historic power from kites depicted in religious art

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23309 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Listen to 2013 Read for AWE progress

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23310 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/1/2018
Subject: An application in Beijing: shine light on smog

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23311 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/3/2018
Subject: Re: UNIVERSITAT BONN

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23312 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/3/2018
Subject: Re: Kite it hot, bring it down cold.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23313 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/3/2018
Subject: Re: Kite it hot, bring it down cold.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23314 From: andrew@airhes.com Date: 1/6/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23315 From: dave santos Date: 1/6/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23316 From: andrew@airhes.com Date: 1/6/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23317 From: dave santos Date: 1/6/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23318 From: andrew@airhes.com Date: 1/7/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23319 From: Marco Ghivarello Date: 1/7/2018
Subject: Re: Dynamic soaring in a Sailplane, Could this be adapted for kite p

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23320 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23321 From: andrew@airhes.com Date: 1/7/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23322 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23323 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2018
Subject: Re: UNIVERSITAT BONN

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23324 From: andrew@airhes.com Date: 1/8/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23325 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23326 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2018
Subject: Re: UNIVERSITAT BONN



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23277 From: dave santos Date: 12/17/2017
Subject: Further formalizations of kite states
As multidisciplinary kite experts, it falls to us to best define kite physics with respect to general physics, which hardly considers kites. This is an old quest, from Newton, an avid kiter, to Cayley, Chanute, Wittgenstein, Loyd; on down to post-modern times, when van Veem identified kite flight as formally chaotic. We then further found quantum-chaos statistics apply to classic kites, and that future kite networks can embody metamaterial properties. The latest quirky physics fun is to see the Wilczec's 2012 Time Crystal concept map to kite dynamics.

Recall previous discussion into what the Kite Ground State is. Yes, a kite on the ground is a low-energy ground state, pun noted, but the true lowest-energy ground state of a dynamical system is necessarily dynamic, so the lowest-energy ground state of a dynamical kite is flying in minimal wind. As wind is added, the kite starts to dance to-and-fro. Keep adding energy and it will loop (and tend to crash without a pilot-lifter). These common kite phases are our Excited States (extra credit: map out "degenerate states").

A time crystal sounds like the most exotic thing ever, but its really a common principle of physical reality. The interpretation is fresh and exotic, but the phenomena is all around us, waiting to be identified. The primary characteristic of a time crystal is to flip between states with scant energy required. Its been proven a time crystal requires a non-equilibrium thermodynamic, just enough energy to flip state, which does not "thermalize" (the system does not heat up). The ideal time crystal is thus a superconductor of its drive energy.* The physicists are excited about this newborn baby, yet not quite sure what its good for.

Enter our Kite Network conception as a time crystal analog. Like all spatial crystals, our kites are arranged in many-connected periodic arrays. Like the single kite, the ground state of the collective array is flight at minimal wind velocity. As wind velocity increases, periodic oscillations develop, and the time crystal emerges. In fact, a common flapping-flag is a sort of wind time crystal, with low Q (quality factor). Continue to add energy by adding more wind, and Gibbs Free (usable) Energy develops, which we call AWE. Add too much energy, and the time crystal "melts" [Wilczek 2012].

The dancing kite state-space is progressively coming into semantic-logic focus, where confusion has reigned.

------
* Evoking the original physics puzzle on the AWES Forum, how a polymer ship towing hawser can convey ~10MW, but remain cool to the touch. In the current Time Crystal view, we better see towing "superconductance" as a cyclic reversible process.

Wilczex in 2012-

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1202.2539.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_energy_levels
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23278 From: dave santos Date: 12/17/2017
Subject: Re: Further formalizations of kite states
Continuing elaboration of basic kite states with help from sailboat racing similarity case of Roll Tacking, where a dinghy crew maintains and even boosts boat speed by tacking. Imagine a sailboat roll tacking against an anchor astern, as a sort of reverse-pumped flapping kite. A quite similar state would be a sailboat anchored in a current spontaneously roll tacking by a fine balance of design. In the AWES case, a kite doing its natural dance is the same sort of dynamical system. Once again, the classical physics is of a mass-spring oscillator smoothly trading mass kinetic and elastic potential energy in a sustained cycle, but the real-world model of how gracefully a roll-tack is done informs us tangibly.

In the video linked here the roll tack is broken down into three steps, and complete tacking kite models will employ similar secondary states. We expand our list of fundamental kite time-crystal states by inverse pumping, much like roll tacking, as well as nominal state driven pumping for generation. Many equivalent but specialized math notations (including programming languages) await us, applicable to our kite state machines, once we have the states well identified.

The low-complexity ideal is the fewest golden working states of rag&string, without the endless possible error states of complex AWES architectures. It should soon be possible to map out a complete kite low-complexity state-space on a single page, while a complex AWES state-machine might fill a book. A simple correct state space is the holy grail of deterministic passive/active/mixed/supervised control- for any given state, the next state is processed by a look-up table, or even embodied as a fine time crystal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAmQW6mahvs
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23279 From: dave santos Date: 12/17/2017
Subject: Daisy AWES as "Heavy Sound" Analog
Spiral Density Wave dynamical systems comprising galaxies are a similarity case closest to Rod's Daisy, of all AWES architectures. Starry spiral arms describe realistic looping kite dynamics- a central galactic blackhole is an ultimate anchor; deep space itself is the kite fabric; and the Higgs field roiled from the Big Bang is the wind: Ergo, the Universe is a sort of kite farm or festival.

Density waves are strikingly dubbed Heavy Sound by cosmologists, and our kite versions make the real stuff in tiny but portentous whispers. Note that heavy sound applies to any massive large-scale reciprocating phased motion, not just rotation. We had been missing this particular physics term-of-art for our peculiar giant acoustics*. Heavy sound takes its place with other exotic sonic classes, like second and third sound.

We carefully note natural differences in how our polymers make density wave rope structure compared to stellar gravity fibers, and how kite fabric works somewhat not like the fabric of space-time, yet overall the same primordial dynamic logic, just maybe how elegantly AWE is predestined to work. Further equating and distinguishing kite anchors (and pilot kites) to blackhole singularities promises further fun.

----------
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_wave_theory

* "kite grunt" was our folk approximation
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23280 From: dave santos Date: 12/17/2017
Subject: KPS hiring
KPS is looking for six engineers of various kinds. A lot is hoped of these new KPS hires, based on the ambitious job descriptions. Six positions is still low compared to peak Makani-Ampyx mass-staffings, but KPS is the current up-and-comer, moving into the AWE venture fast lane.

Follow the internal KPS link to careers-

http://www.kitepowersystems.com/
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23281 From: dave santos Date: 12/18/2017
Subject: Refining Kite Network Lattice Wave Mechanics
When we years ago began to ponder spontaneous waves in kite trains and arches, as collective versions of kite dancing, and how such waves might be tapped for energy, we encountered the classical first-order classification of waves, as either transverse or longitudinal, with the latter inherently favored for practical power transfer by kitelines, as anyone can prove by playing with string. This note clarifies tricky but standard wave interpretations of kite motions that puzzled us then.

[Loyd '81] presented formal AWE science of "crosswind power" as the ideal plane of AWES load motion, in agreement with traditional sailing where crosswind course motion (beam reach) was long before known as the fastest most effective "point-of-sailing". Our collective conceptual blind-spot was to still persistently look at the cross-wind kite from the anchor POV, as we usually see and imagine our kites, overlooking the kite's POV. This perceptual bias, along with a single-line topological bias, contributed to most EU teams to adopt single-kite reeling as the default architecture, with the apparent longitudinal wave basis seen essential. Crosswind sweeping was seen as problematic transverse motion that could only be imperfectly converted to longitudinal reeling.

However, both [Loyd] and sailors in fact had duly presumed the kite-sailboat POV, but no one in AWE noticed then that this POV sees crosswind motion as the desired longitudinal wave. Ignore upwind tether dependence, just as a sailor can by reliance on keel lift, to not drift downwind. For effective low complexity AWE, what counts crosswind PTO motion by a separate drive line. Once again, Galilean Relativity requires us to study a problem from multiple POVs, to understand motions properly, finding that a transverse wave in one POV is longitudinal in an orthogonal POV. Consider a square mesh; longitudinal motion along one grid direction is transverse to the other.

kPower has experimentally driven crosswind PTOs from upwind anchors since at least 2011, drawing from [Lang (Hadzicki) 2004], intuition, and trial and error. Sorting out applicable theoretic optimal wave mechanics clearly lagged. This whole general AWES architectural space is Open-AWE_IP-Cloud, and awaits testing against other developing AWES architectures. Torque-driven AWES architectures rely on spiral waves. This is not the end of formalizing optimal kite wave mechanics, but still an early R&D phase. Mastering waves in AWES iso-lattices is a huge future exploration. May the best wave mechanics win.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23282 From: dave santos Date: 12/19/2017
Subject: Feel more AWE
Weird undeniable affinity and parallel progress of kite energy to science and poetics of emotion-

https://parade.com/513786/paulaspencer/feeling-awe-may-be-the-secret-to-health-and-happiness/
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23283 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/20/2017
Subject: Re: Water Abundance XPRIZE: DEADLINE REMINDER - Team Presentation We
FYI


--
Sincerely, Andrew Kazantsev
Skype [chat]: andrew_kazantsev
http://AirHES.com
http://barixa.net 


-------- Пересылаемое сообщение --------
От кого: Water Abundance XPRIZE <Water.Abundance@xprize.org
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23284 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/25/2017
Subject: Re: Feel more AWE
AWE !!!
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23285 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 12/26/2017
Subject: Re: Feel more AWE

Here is the link for "1000 solutions to change the world":


https://solarimpulse.com/news/view/happy-holidays-and-best-wishes-for-the-new-year

 

AWE could be one or more among those 1000 solutions.

 

Merry Christmas

 

PierreB

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23286 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2017
Subject: Re: Feel more AWE
Good luck to Bertrand with 999 other solutions to save us, since AWE is our technical focus. Which other idea offers more pure natural awe-emotion as kites? None that we know.


.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23287 From: dave santos Date: 12/26/2017
Subject: Root Cause for Despair and Angst in High-Complexity AWE
Its a bit obscure what Fort Felker meant by "despair", in his remarks at AWEC2017, and what most promoted what an unnamed Makani engineer called "angst" in a company review; as dramatic AWE engineering management challenges. Fort had the shocking tragedy of Corwin Hardham in mind; a gifted athlete and engineer who apparently worked himself to death for Google, which saddened us all. On the technical side, based on known cases, the recipe for despair in AWE R&D is premature architectural down-select and scale-up, plus too much money, which blows-up into unsafe messy high-complexity engineering and venture failure.

In contrast, cheap low-complexity open AWE does not create such despair, but a sense of easy progress, even though the road is still long to perfect and scale up. Superior knowledge, practical crashworthiness, and greater safety of KIS practice, all help engineers sleep soundly and feel better on the AWE developmental marathon. In fact, fairly simple kites are most effective and actually fun to develop and fly. Low complexity AWE based on that model is a dream-job.

Here is a good reference for the role of engineered complexity on performance; how complex architectures promote emergent failure-modes. Its bad news for AWE's high-complexity players, and vindicates traditional KIS-
------------------------------------------------

The complexity of failure: Implications of complexity theory for safety investigations

Article · July 2011 DOI: 10.1016/j.ssci.2011.01.008
Sidney W A Dekker Griffith University
Paul Cilliers Jan-Hendrik Servaas Hofmey Stellenbosch University

Abstract

Complexity theory suggests that we see performance as an emergent property, the result of complex interactions and relationships. This can clash, however, with what stakeholders see as legitimate and normal in accident investigations. When systems fail, it is still common to blame components (e.g. human errors) and when they succeed spectacularly, to think in terms of individual heroism (e.g. the A320 Hudson River landing). In this paper, we lay out the contrast between a Newtonian analysis of failure that can be recognized in many efforts at safety analysis and improvement. It makes particular assumptions about the relationship between cause and effect, foreseeability of harm, time-reversibility and the ability to produce the “true story” of an accident. With inspiration from complexity theory, failures are seen as an emergent property of complexity. We explore what that means for safety science and work towards a post-Newtonian analysis of failure in complex systems.Research highlights► In complex systems there is no linear relationship between component behavior and system-level outcomes. ► According to complexity theory, reconstructing one “true” story of what happened is impossible. ► Investigations should gather multiple narratives from different perspectives inside the complex system. ► These narratives offer partially overlapping and contradictory accounts of emergent outcomes. ► Narrative diversity is more valuable than one official account: it offers more opportunities for learning.

The complexity of failure: Implications of complexity theory for safety investigations. Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229360926_The_complexity_of_failure_Implications_of_complexity_theory_for_safety_investigations [accessed Dec 26 2017].
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23288 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/27/2017
Subject: Re: Water Abundance XPRIZE: DEADLINE REMINDER - Team Presentation We
I am not sure of where the concluding claim in the linked video fits potentially in the Water Abundance XPRIZE, I at all; however the speaker's claim is stark. And AWES involving the technology involved in the beetle of focus of her talk may have a following someday.    Video Ted Talk
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23289 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/27/2017
Subject: UNIVERSITAT BONN

Large Hadron Collider - International Linear Collider
Research Group Prof. Dr. Klaus Desch
Priv. Doz. Dr. Philip Bechtle    { Philip Moritz Bechtle }

"Airborne Wind Energy: The "AWEsome" concept"

Link page HERE

=====================================================
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23290 From: dave santos Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Re: UNIVERSITAT BONN
Thanks, Joe.

Somehow not seeing the post noting how natural that such an elite (LHC/ILC) particle-physics group counts AWE as a new research direction, in light of our years of noting scientific affinities between kite dynamics and condensed-matter/particle physics.

We express the traditional Forum welcome into AWE, and wish UBonn the very best.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23291 From: dave santos Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Vital Role of Citizen Science in AWE
Citizen Science is the ancient root of science, based on pure merit and openness. It both extends and subsumes academia and industry silos, as everyone is a citizen of Earth. Population growth, social media, and the open knowledge revolution lately accelerate citizen science. Its a catch-all movement of visionary eccentrics, school children, white-hat open-source hackers, and so on.

The AWE community has its fine early citizen-scientists, of every kind (Wayne German as patron saint). Its now a discredited myth that any single venture or player can monopolize AWE, which is pretty much as "free as the wind", or air as based on airspace; and as cheap as "rag and string"; and almost anyone can fly a kite. Real AWE progress is emergent by the efforts of countless citizen-angels, going back ages. It is a fantastic adventure as a critical-mass of citizens increasingly come together to perfect AWE engineering-science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_science
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23292 From: dave santos Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Formal identification of qubit encoding in tri-tether rigging
Kites have always depended on dynamic tri-radial forces to fly autonomously. The common Y-bridle, and its cybernetic action, is the most obvious case. We have found the tri-tether to be astoundingly versatile as a pumping line AWES PTO basis. The classic rigger's-triangle embodies the same sort of robust (topologically protected) force map.

A Qubit is a quantum bit consisting of a superposed state of two orthogonal dimensions. A tri-tether encodes a qubit along two of its legs, with the third leg designated as a PTO or logic IO. A classical bit (0,1) is encoded by one leg slack (0) and the other tensioned (1), in relation to the third leg. A qubit state is the superposed mix in tension of the two legs with regard to the third. How cool is that?

Its astounding that classic (stone-age!) kite flight is apparently quantum-computation based, as has been conjectured (and ridiculed) here before*, but most formally shown by qubit-based system identification.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubit

-----------

* The question has been just what formal computation paradigm applies to classic analog-logic kite flight autonomy. Active digital-logic control is von Neumann computation based, but kites are not.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23293 From: Christian Harrell Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Dynamic soaring in a Sailplane, Could this be adapted for kite power
"On November 22nd, 2014 at around 2.30 pm local time, Bruce T. flew a new Dynamic Soaring world speed record of 505 mph (810 kph)"

How to control? Speed and rotation?


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23294 From: dave santos Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Re: Dynamic soaring in a Sailplane, Could this be adapted for kite p
Hi Christian,

The answer to your subject question is YES. As you see, your orbital-kite intuitions are incredibly promising in light of such amazing DS performances, with no speed limit yet reached (Wayne German even foresees supersonic kites).

The Open-AWE_IP-Cloud low-complexity approach to taming such dynamics is to set a pilot kite above the looping foil, and a PTO line leading off of the main tether below. A mountain ridge amplifies the DS effect, but the ordinary altitude wind gradient serves where no mountain is available, and a few glider pilots have DSed so. kPower has found looping foils perhaps the most ready means to create an effective AWES. A utility-scale version is likely to depend on a large soft power-kite (ie. a ship-kite)

Hoping you will help the overdue US NW high-gear in AWE*, if you are still active there. You are well remembered as one of the most original and self-reliant figures in early AWE, and now we are entering a wild R&D growth phase. Hoping things have gone well for you, and welcome back to AWE.

Your old pal (whom you owe a beer),

daveS

----------
* SF Bay Area and EU have largely spent their early "lead", just as NW-based BEV AWE funding is in the pipe.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23295 From: dave santos Date: 12/28/2017
Subject: Re: Dynamic soaring in a Sailplane, Could this be adapted for kite p
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23296 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Re: UNIVERSITAT BONN

Core statement by that research group: 
"We call our concept "AWEsome", the Airborne Wind Energy Standardized Open-source Model Environment. The goal is to contribute to the open exchange of ideas in this quickly developing field and to make it easier for new groups to start with a freely available functional system."
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23297 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Overview article for AWE. 2015, November

Article open for discussion: ARTICLE HERE

November 2015

=================================

Authors: 

Cherubini, Antonello

Papini, Andrea

Vertechy, Rocco

Fontana, Marco

=================================

Funding for this research was provided by:

Kitegen Research Srl and Scuola Superiore Sant׳Anna

=================================

This article is maintained by: Elsevier

Article Title: Airborne Wind Energy Systems: A review of the technologies

Journal Title: Renewable and Sustainable Energy Reviews

CrossRef DOI link to publisher maintained version: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.rser.2015.07.053

Content Type: article

=====================================
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23298 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: AWES tether has drag

AWES tethers have drag whether or not the tether has cross-wind moving ground projection or is with a static ground projection in steady wind. 

============================================================

The topic faces a concern about some continuing repetition of some claims that a kite tether fixed in position has no drag; such claim cannot be supported; the said tether still has definite drag.  Even a tether streaming parallel with wind has drag, never zero drag.  If one sees the claim of "zero drag" for AWES tethers in the literature, then put on one's critical-thinking cap.  The tether drag is built from many types of drag; the tether is an aircraft.  Some drag notes:  http://www.aircraftnerds.com/2016/06/types-of-drags-on-aircraft.html

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23299 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: KiteX

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6drhOIA87c7dLCrbFPr6yA


Clicking to related video sets from their Home video link will reach 

some material that has not been mentioned yet in forum. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23300 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: "Hard Kite"
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23301 From: dave santos Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Re: AWES tether has drag
True, in nominal conditions with standard kites, a tether always has drag. There is the low-wind low velocity regime with fine UHMWPE, where tether drag is negligible, but not zero. Graphene will further reduce tether drag as a major concern. There are exotic zero-drag exception classes- vertical updrafts and back-eddies; and zero-G vacuum. A leeward tilted tether has negative lift and a windward tilted tether has some L/D. One could say a tether also almost always has some positive or negative lift, since perfect alignment with wind is improbable. At most probable (low) wind velocities, for vast kite arrays, many tethers are the key enabler, so the drag is worth it. In high wind, there is power in excess, so tether drag can be irrelevant to max available power. For pumping varidrogues that furl to return upwind, downwind bridle drag enhances power a bit.


Tether drag will consume a large fraction of a DSing kite's net power, proportional to velocity. In the past, we have narrowed down the likely sweet-spot to trade tether-drag against velocity at around 100mph (in likely wind velocities, with design load added). No way we can get 500mph velocities in practical tethered AWE, but we sure learn a lot from those who fly so fast, to design IFOs that need no tether.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23302 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Historic power from kites depicted in religious art

24 August, 2006

"The Jesus kite (aquilone di Gesù) was an iconographical representation of Christ being flown as a kite: an eccentric subgenre of religious painting from the late Middle Ages through the early Italian Renaissance"

Source of quote:   http://vunex.blogspot.com/2006/08/jesus-kites.html

Also there: "I have merely offered my readers an free and unfettered glimpse into the now-forgotten world of the Jesus kite."

===================

Power from high ...?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23303 From: dave santos Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Re: Historic power from kites depicted in religious art
Amazing, and how weird we have never seen these images over decades of intense kite scholarship, so lets be cautious, it would not be hard to add kitelines to standard imagery. On the other hard, kite cave art in SE Asia could be as much as 40k yr old. But there is much more odd in the whole picture. After all, Plato opined the wing is the holiest thing, as it tends upward, The Cross embodies the same lines dawn inside a geometric figure called a Kite. The Bible defined heaven not just as outer space, but where birds can reach, and words in many tongues for kites and birds often overlap. Image search on Jesus Kites reveals many curiosities, including humor and devotional toy kites with Jesus printed on them. Its ancient biblical prophecy that Christ would someday reappear in the sky; well now, its happening, thanks to the Kite. If AWE saves the world, that's one more coincidence.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23304 From: Joe Faust Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: just getting started
​Prediction:
Upon AWE's maturation, the period pre-2018 may be dubbed as the era where AWE workers were "just getting started".
Will 2018 be YEAR ONE for a new era, or will 2018 be integrated into the "just getting started" era?
========================
Care to lend some support for such a prediction?
 
  • Materials
  • Systems' architectures
  • Capital courage
  • Testing
  • Comparisons
  • PTOs
  • Aggregate dynamics
  • Control
  • System status awareness
  • Talent gathering
  • Science over profit
  • Education
  • Experience
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23305 From: dave santos Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Re: KiteX
Wonderful crowd for KiteX at Denmark Wind Energy Festival, breaking into spontaineous applause again and again in the video. Every such event ropes more nice folks into AWE. Fun to see Danes in cheerful mode, dreaming collectively, modestly orienting themselves in AWE relative to Google's crass bravado; not the least bit intimidated, confident in their DIY powers, enjoying the same starting questions we have so enjoyed. AWE is truely primed to go viral, judging by the Happy Energy in that room, the wandering ghost of Wubbo.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23306 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Makani spring test, 36 min video version

A 36 minute verson of the test in the spring of 2017:

Testing Makani's M600 energy kite in Spring 2017 - Duration: 36 minutes.

Published 2 months ago

  • 3,480 views so far
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23307 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Sergei Lupashin


This branch of attention has non-empty affect on AWE public nuances:


Sergei Lupashin

From kites to drones (to kites again) | Sergei Lupashin | TEDxZurich

Published on Nov 20, 2014

Video


=

TEDx

==================================
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23308 From: dave santos Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Re: Historic power from kites depicted in religious art
Rounding out a world review of Christian kiting, Guyana stands out as kite crazy, representing the ingrained Afro-Caribbean association of kite and Easter, the kite as risen Christ, to add to the Cross phase-

http://guyanachronicle.com/2015/04/05/easter-kites-and-tradition
http://missytmarshall.blogspot.com/2010/04/my-gamma-cherry-kite-for-easter.html

Guatemalan giant kites on All Souls Day (Day of the Dead) bridge shamanic and Christian belief. There are of course countless cases of Asian spiritual kite traditions. We know wind to be spirit in the old shamanic view. Flight itself is supernatural from the old view. The "Jesus Kite Meme" is classed as such in Bing, increasing the likelihood that the Italianate Jesus Kite site is virtual. There is also a demonic kite meme to overcome. Our early fears over evil kites were overblown, but the problem may flare up as the tech takes hold. Finally, science itself is faith-based on the scientific method and other dogma, and we have found the kite principle at the heart of field and particle physics.

What we have is a strong spiritual disposition to AWE, a powerful advantage to adoption, once the particulars are worked out by us; Kite Church...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23309 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/29/2017
Subject: Listen to 2013 Read for AWE progress

Listen and watch 2013 Read for AWE progress

Rod Read in 45 minutes of presentation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9WPQkknix0

HERE
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23310 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/1/2018
Subject: An application in Beijing: shine light on smog

Kite detects pollution, shines light on Beijing smog

By Holden Frith, for CNN

Updated 6:17 AM ET, Wed September 4, 2013
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23311 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/3/2018
Subject: Re: UNIVERSITAT BONN

https://environment.territoryairservices.com/2018/01/02/34c3-drones-of-power-airborne-wind-energy/


Talk's video is now available.   He wants comments.

 

 Dr. Christoph Sieg (HU Berlin)  gave well-presented talk:  Drones of Power: Airborne Wind Energy

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My rough notes:

awesome.physik.uni-bonn.de

Drones of Power: Airborne Wind Energy

== tunnel vision missing the richness of kite systems more generally, I say.

== drone:    tunnel vision to "fixed wing"     That is, I suggest, that non-fixed wing general kite systems may be robotized or drone expressed.

== Missing attention on anchor systems ...  For the large energy kite systems we are envisioning, much more attention on anchor systems is forecasted, I predict.

== Missing free-flight AWE ...

== He struggled to confine kite to non-rigid and thus exposes how the mindset is missing huge opportunity.  Fixation on rigid wing drone ever avoiding the large meaning of kite systems will slow research for those with such tunnel vision.

== Bias spoke: "you want to go to a rigid aircraft"   Explanation focused on L/D.     MISSES OPPORTUNITIES.

== The meaning and measure of "leader" is very fuzzy. Leading to poor architecture with excessive expenditure is a kind of leadership maybe to avoid, I comment.

== "AWE Zoo" shown was incomplete, as it ever will be; the zoo members shown were inviting interest.

Thanks to Dr. Christoph Sieg for giving such a strong presentation.

============================================================




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23312 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/3/2018
Subject: Re: Kite it hot, bring it down cold.
Free-flight AWES application within topic:

Rick Masters gave some history of the use of his kite hang glider where he was the kite-system's anchor. He deliberately used energies to obtain ice-cold milk:

"I'd always fly with a quart of whole milk strapped to my keel.
It would be ice-cold when I landed, hours later. Over and over again, I'd sit under my glider in the shade from the desert sun and drink that ice-cold milk and relish the lingering high.
It was a magic moment.
A magic memory.
What could be better?"   Quote source here

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23313 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 1/3/2018
Subject: Re: Kite it hot, bring it down cold.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23314 From: andrew@airhes.com Date: 1/6/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/
About one of possible way for improvement and development of the mesh design:

Jalousie with a wing profile as a mesh of AirHES
https://bari-x-andrew.livejournal.com/40124.html
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23315 From: dave santos Date: 1/6/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/
Hi Andrew,

We have studied most of the specific issues you also raise, and greatly enjoy your sharings.

Regarding aerodynamic profiles of polymer lines, the problem is to keep them from "strumming" (oscillating) in high wind, which tends to actually increase drag. Any streamline-forming material also adds parasitic mass (increasing power needed just to maintain mass aloft), and adds line cost. Durability is an issue, especially with spooling. Since no one has solved these hard problems, round lines continue favored.

We begin to see conceptual integration of fabric wing and fog collector. After all, a fog mesh tilted toward the wind develops some lift. The upper/back side flow is lower pressure, where condensation is promoted. Even a solid wing condensates water vapor at dew-point temperature, as jet con-trails show. The problems are not theoretic, but practical engineering and operations, from finding dew-points in the sky, to collecting the water from the mesh, and bringing it down, and other such design and operational issues.

A cheap simple experiment would be to sew a fog mesh along the trailing-edge of a pilot lifter kite. The two pre-optimized technologies will combine as a linear engineering trade-off. The mesh can be modulated like a wing-flap. Of course, just hanging a fog mesh under a lifter-kite is the most simple way to get started at engineered systems. Kites have always harvested water in proper conditions. The drops run down the line, and a large kite will even shed raindrops, which is already a form of true rain-making,

daveS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23316 From: andrew@airhes.com Date: 1/6/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/
Dear Dave,
thanks for your remarks.

I have investigated by using CFD XFlow the different materials for cloud collector meshes and kites ( see http://barixa.net/Mesh_airhes_en.pdf ) and have used the gotten approximations for droplet catch efficiency X and aerodynamic coefficients Cx, Cy, L/D for fulfilling the simulation and optimization of the different kinds of AirHES designs ( see http://barixa.net/AirHES_model_en.pdf ). Practically the model chooses the optimal design itself if we give some changeable parameters and point the target parameter of optimization (for example, payback period). 

What is important - the fabric of AirHES kite must be slightly penetrated for air (unlike usual kite fabric) to allow catching the micro droplets in order to get the optimal ratio between X and L/D from economical point of view.

Also our task is namely catching/collecting the cloud droplets already condensed (similar to fog collecting) rather than condensing water (similar to dew collecting) because the volume condensation (inside cloud) gives considerably more water than the surface condensation (on mesh or fabric). Therefore the main patent formula of AirHES is placement the mesh or fabric ABOVE dew point (i.e. directly inside clouds).

SY, Andrew
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23317 From: dave santos Date: 1/6/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/
Andrew, a few more thoughts...

The professional kite world flies in all conditions, so moisture capture and conditions are well known, but not optimized for harvest. Its lucky for experimental work that any kite that has been flown enough hours naturally becomes more porous, as the fabric sizing cracks and/or wears away. Its quite common for old kites to saturate in mist like a sponge, and fly heavy with water (that could be wrung out, Polynesian style). New kites with low-porosity fabric fly about as well in rain or clear weather, but cost more than porous old kites.

While there may be a favored drop size to any specific collection design, the bigger drops fall-out fastest, as rain. Harvesting rain before it becomes Virga is a hot desert dream, but collecting rain elsewhere before it lands is not so useful. Being able to harvest clear-air at the dew-point just extends the harvestable conditions to its proper limit.

The open-AWE design philosophy is lazy and opportunistic; to attempt revolutionary feats with common objects arranged cleverly. We embrace numeric models and exotic prototypes as well, but the cheapest simplest demonstration makes a tangible reference-design case-study. Multiple implementations allow us to compare and synthesize results. That's why flying a standard fog mesh under a standard kite is so appealing (all COTS and highest TRL) compared to all the less-obtainable means.

Collecting water aloft is potentially a very important technology, and all serious efforts (simple and complex) should be supported. I'll try flying an old power kite in fog to wring out some water, as chance allows.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23318 From: andrew@airhes.com Date: 1/7/2018
Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/
Thanks, Dave,
of course, it is a great idea to use old kites for numerous experiments by different people to prove this conception. BTW, in my experiments it was only one time when I can get a little amount of water from low clouds - namely when I used kite with mesh attached below a standard lifter kite.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23319 From: Marco Ghivarello Date: 1/7/2018
Subject: Re: Dynamic soaring in a Sailplane, Could this be adapted for kite p
Attachments :

    Hi all, 

    I made some investigation and a preliminary 3d model study, concerning how fast could grow the energy and how could be solved the huge problem of aerodynamics resistence coming from the rope, and also spent some time for a first study of feasibility related to some ideas. 

    Now,  in my opinion could be possibile to use the higt speed dynamic soaring (different from the conservative dynamic soaring used from Albatross) also for AWE, by making a fully customized generator that could work obviesly only in very particular downwind places of the earth.

    Based from a first set of evaluations, should be possible to reach 1000 kW with a modified glider of 10 m2 flying at the half of the spped record........finally running behind the teorethical values coming from Loyd equation! 

    Having no patented up to now, maybe we will do it if FINALLY I will discover a financer and could start the other part of my work (https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/11019381).

    The problem is - as usual - money....money and time for start a research.

    The earth must be damaged even before man acquires the awareness of being near extinction, and puts aside the actual individualism, finally dedicating money to create innovations potentially useful to all.
    Happy fly to all...
    Marco



     

    Superb recent DS lecture-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv7-YM4wno8
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23320 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2018
    Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/
    A little water from an unoptimized test counts as a positive early result. Your experiment encountered a common paradox in kite technology, that some concepts only work well at small scale (like rigid wing flygens), or at large scale (like reaching higher into better wind), or in some very special place (narrow LLJs, clouds, offshore, etc.).

    A general challenge is that wind can both wet and dry at the same time. May times I have flown in wet weather in high wind, and the rain evaporated as fast as it hit me, so I did not get wet. We have to figure out how to reduce all such losses.

    The good news is that the cloud-water resource is real and well calculated, and incrementally slow progress in perfecting the technology is a reasonable expectation. Like Gabor Dobos and his IFO concept, we appreciate your leadership in the water-harvesting branch of airborne resources, and hope progress is soon enough for you to enjoy the rewards.

    This article cites ~10% harvesting efficiency of fog mesh based on measured results. Given the familiar bypass ratio relation, perhaps there is the same upper "Betz Limit" of about 60% for max theoretic fog harvesting, but this is just a guess.

    http://www.asce.org/magazine/20131008-researchers-improve-the-efficiency-of-fog-harvesting/
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23321 From: andrew@airhes.com Date: 1/7/2018
    Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/
    Dave,
    thanks for reference, however you can see in my article "Optimization of mesh" the links to the original MIT articles and the field data FogQuest where this efficiency sometimes upto 70% (!!!), and I investigate the rather good correlation of these data with my CFD simulation both for meshes and kite fabric.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23322 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2018
    Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/
    Yes, the rough guess is %70 should be doable, but even
    Here's some added ideas-

    - A looped arch-kite can circulate aloft between anchors to saturate the fabric and then be wrung-out in a continuous cycle.

    - A mass chilled at high altitude can condense water at lower altitude, in a thermal cycle. Water ballast is one mass option, where the same water serves to capture a multiplied amount of condensate over time. This allows water harvest at low humidity.

    - These ideas can combine into an integrated design. Unit-loops can in turn combine into vast periodic arrays (as a sort of mega-metamaterial).
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23323 From: dave santos Date: 1/7/2018
    Subject: Re: UNIVERSITAT BONN
    A fine public presentation of the North EU orthodox view that AWE inherently requires complex computation and favors rigid wings. Then followed a sharp question from an unnamed hacker, asking why not just carry a turbine under a soft kite (?). Indeed, years ago Pierre showed such a soft-kite flygen AWES works rather well; and kPower flew an almost identical RC foam glider "drone" with flygen, but suspended under a pilot kite to sweep spontaneously, without digital control, virtually crash-proof, also Open Source. Bonn seems not to have known of these demonstrations. Will be telling if someone flies both OS approaches for LCOE and critical safety-reliability performance comparison. Fun to see a deep-sea fishing reel in use, like KiteLab Ilwaco ten years ago, and various hobby kiters have long used.

    Watching Daidalos, as sponsor of the Bonn project, presumably position for another AWE R&D fundraising round, where it does not actually matter if its architectural down-selects are winners, but that the reworked investment pitch once again attracts large follow-on investment, so that Daidalos' early venture-capital and profit exits before a market failure can happen. On the other hand, Daidalos could be actually trying to find an AWE winner by supporting small-scale R&D, just not casting a very wide net yet.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23324 From: andrew@airhes.com Date: 1/8/2018
    Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/
    Good suggestions, Dave,
    but initially I try to develop a quasi-static variants of AirHES - ideally without an operational maintenance, without dynamical processes, maybe even without winch at all - like usual Hydropower plant.
    About water efficiency: we can theoretically have ~100% efficiency (like the jalousie water separators on a Nuclear Power Plant) - a cloud is dual-phase and removing droplets is practically not influent on main air flow (unlike wind generation with a Betz limit).
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23325 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2018
    Subject: Re: Air HES http://airhes.com/
    Its seems that a lower extraction efficiency by air volume is favored for optimal kite mass efficiency. So a single mesh, for example, may extract, say, 10%, and a second mesh a bit less, so mesh mass becomes the limiting factor. The analogy with Betz reasoning is very loose, mostly for fun, not just because water and kinetic energy are not very similar, but since the Betz disc assumption is an idealization that does not fully hold for even the flattest turbine rotor, much less a deep-section rotor (or multiple mesh stages). Optimal extraction efficiency in kite context is an open question, with simulations subject to empirical validation.

    To develop a large-scale Air HES surely will require many design iterations and lots of capital, but small working prototypes should approximate or beat the reported performance of the Polynesian kites with sponges attached, where one may drink from clouds, if not irrigate a farm. Its a large time and cost gap between the two engineering goals.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 23326 From: dave santos Date: 1/8/2018
    Subject: Re: UNIVERSITAT BONN
    Reconciling to JoeF's comments; we have a general consensus that the UBonn presentation at the Hacker's convention was worthy, but rather narrow conceptually. UBonn is clearly a wonderful new player in AWE, and we expect a learning curve process, so there is no real critique here.

    That AWES engineering remains open as to the best solutions was properly presented, but clearly at odds with Daidalos' pattern of narrow initial investment bets. What is odd is how few AWE players seek to "try everything"; almost every team is quite insular and jumps on one blinkered horse to ride in the grand race, and AWE domain analysts must make do with a virtual fly-off review, disregarding the investment hype of the "leaders". UBonn is no hype-leader in AWE, but already a merit-leader, from its starting position. The bottom-up OS process will tend toward the solution, despite anyone's mistaken biases, and UBonn should end up with the winners.