Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 20232 to 20282 Page 298 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20232 From: dave santos Date: 6/9/2016
Subject: Tracking down current turbine blade research (GE and Wetzel)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20233 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/9/2016
Subject: Re: Tracking down current turbine blade research (GE and Wetzel)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20234 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Multi-MotorGen Drivetrains

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20235 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Realtime US Winds Aloft Data

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20236 From: dougselsam Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Re: Multi-MotorGen Drivetrains

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20238 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20239 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20240 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Re: Quick review of aviation-rated fabric

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20241 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20242 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Re: Multi-MotorGen Drivetrains

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20243 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Choice SS Buzz from Ozone and Peter Lynn

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20244 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20245 From: dave santos Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Megascale Cable-rigging Similarity-Case (Three-Gorges Dam Ship Eleva

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20246 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20247 From: dave santos Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20248 From: dave santos Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Biomimetic Wind-Tech Ideas from Pollen and Spore Dispersal Structure

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20249 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Re: Megascale Cable-rigging Similarity-Case (Three-Gorges Dam Ship E

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20250 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20251 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20252 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Re: Megascale Cable-rigging Similarity-Case (Three-Gorges Dam Ship E

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20253 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Big Muskie and the Captain (megascale walking drag-line tech)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20254 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Re: Big Muskie and the Captain (megascale walking drag-line tech)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20255 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20256 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Solar-Impulse closing on Round-the-World First

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20257 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Faggiani Pietro's TUDelft MSc Thesis- Pumping Kites Wind Farm

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20258 From: Rod Read Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Re: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20259 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Re: Faggiani Pietro's TUDelft MSc Thesis- Pumping Kites Wind Farm

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20260 From: dave santos Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Re: Faggiani Pietro's TUDelft MSc Thesis- Pumping Kites Wind Farm

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20261 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Re: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20262 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Re: Powered Kiting by Polygonal Centroidal Cyclic Winching and Glidi

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20263 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Re: Ampyx Press Coverage

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20264 From: dave santos Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: RC Glider "High-Start" Bungee-Launch Tutorial

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20265 From: dave santos Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Re: Ampyx Press Coverage

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20266 From: dave santos Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Reinhart's Peak2 SS for FLySurfer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20267 From: Rod Read Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Re: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20268 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Makani no longer wrongly tops Google AWE Searches

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20269 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Re: Makani no longer wrongly tops Google AWE Searches

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20270 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Kategorie:Industrielle Anwendung

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20271 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Re: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20272 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Re: Makani no longer wrongly tops Google AWE Searches

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20273 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Kategorie:Industrielle Anwendung

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20274 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Re: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20275 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Origami Lattice Mechanics for KiteMatter Cases

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20276 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Re: Makani no longer wrongly tops Google AWE Searches

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20277 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Re: Makani no longer wrongly tops Google AWE Searches

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20278 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Control-Pod Networks for Variable SS Airfoils and as a WECS Lattice

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20279 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Re: Control-Pod Networks for Variable SS Airfoils and as a WECS Latt

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20280 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Re: Fanbelting Groundgen

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20281 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Re: Fanbelting Groundgen

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20282 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
Subject: Re: Powered Kiting by Polygonal Centroidal Cyclic Winching and Glidi



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20232 From: dave santos Date: 6/9/2016
Subject: Tracking down current turbine blade research (GE and Wetzel)
GE and NREL are just now completing the three-year timeframe of the fabric-covered turbine-blade study, so final results are not yet overdue. Meanwhile, a related effort with further funding has emerged, with GE matched to an Austin-area windtech firm, Wetzel Engineering, near kPower's  Austin base. I'll try to find find out more via Wetzel, as well as brief them on AWE.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20233 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/9/2016
Subject: Re: Tracking down current turbine blade research (GE and Wetzel)
Texas Set To Be Wind Turbine Leader, Down To The Nuts & Bolts

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20234 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Multi-MotorGen Drivetrains
In the VTOL flygen concept space, the Forum has long explored multi-motorgen drivetrains (MMD) to maximise power-to-mass by best thermal dissipation while maximizing aerodynamic efficiency by supporting fewer larger rotors. Joby Aviation in particular went the other direction, creating experimental AWES and general-aviation wings lined with small single-motor rotors. Instead, a multi-motorgen drivetrain allows retaining highly-optimized "classic" aircraft configurations by ganging many motorgen units in the same engine space as ICs (Open-AWE_IP-Cloud).

This third-party paper explores the same theoretic merits for multi-generator-drivetrains (MGD) in tower-based HAWTs-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20235 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Realtime US Winds Aloft Data
Most of our wind data sources are surface-based, and only give the vaguest idea of what winds above are. This link is to NOAA NWS data for wind and temp at altitudes all the way to 53 thousand feet. Behind the modern web interface is the ancient teletype data format that pilots long have used, with arcane compression coding rules (click along text data links to find key). This data-layer would still be used in creating AWE apps. METAR is a similar machine code for local weather data.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20236 From: dougselsam Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Re: Multi-MotorGen Drivetrains
1) Old wind turbines often had two generators, for low and high windspeeds. 
2) Clipper Wind with former GE wind people developed multiple-generator turbines to reduce wear on gear teeth by spreading out the stress.  Clipper Wind went bankrupt.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20238 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Soft vs Rigid Wings

Concerning soft kites or sails vs rigid wings or rotor: the debate is not settled yet in spite of numerous searches and discussions. For me also, it is not clear enough. Perhaps  a configuration with a soft kite as a lifting kite, and rigid wings acting the conversion system could be favored.

Are there new arguments favoring soft or rigid wings?


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20239 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

The niche purpose may need to be defined, as some niche purposes may favor soft over rigid wings or oppositely.  E.g., If a purpose for an AWES is to have a soft system, then rigid just won't do for that purpose. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20240 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Re: Quick review of aviation-rated fabric
Lets all be pleased kPower's 2014 demo actually met the criteria Doug posed (redundantly), especially at the magical "newborn baby" phase. Furthermore, Doug could not yet rule-out GE's 5 million dollar fabric blade program might have grid-tied. The AWES Forum remains the best place on the Net for curious folks to learn about the fantastic potential of "grid-connected wind energy project(s) using cloth sails", and what efforts are active. Its as if the whole technical arc of Sailing, from Stone Age to Space Age, is now aiming to be grid-tied, and Doug just needs to be patient with the uneven pace of revolutionary progress.

The Forum boldly ponders a big long AWE future from our smallest tangible beginnings. A priori thinking of fabric as somehow good enough for NASA spaceships or homebuilt aircraft, but not megascale AWE, is not what us soft-wing experts* do. We make the mightiest wings in history (Osborne, Culp, Lynn, etc.). "Aviation fabric", aka "sailcloth" is "Right-Stuff".

------------------------------
* We recognize a few dozen elite soft wing developers by name.



On Friday, June 10, 2016 1:17 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
OK I will repeat the question:
"can you tell us about a grid-connected wind energy project using cloth sails?"
Seems to me the answer is a clear "no".
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20241 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
Joe is right. Many facts are settled when the conditions are defined. Rigid wings are better for high-velocity flight, like jet transport, and soft wings are better for low-velocity sports and ships, where details like packing down to a small volume is essential. Pierre is on the right track too. Science knows why bird design mixes rigid and soft flexible structure for wings, and does not scale greatly. The more empirical science one has, the less design uncertainty. The future history of AWE will surely reveal high confidence of the best developers based on soundest understanding. The least understanding must wait to belatedly see fulfilled in real life what the most understanding saw first, in the mind's eye.

For Megascale AWE (km scale wings), its clear only soft wings do. Large aircraft designers long ago (Spruce Goose, Me 321 Gigant, etc.) neared definite limits to practical rigid wings, and better materials and design have only slightly allowed larger types. Osborne's sewing class made a far larger wing than the biggest conventional aircraft. SkySails/North has updated soft superwings on the AWES drawing board, awaiting orders. kPower could build a super-Mothra, and it would fly without doubt. The rigid-winged Ampyx 2MW and Makani M600 are paltry by comparison, and may already be too big to be optimal, as rigid wing AWES.


Inline image





On Friday, June 10, 2016 2:32 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
The niche purpose may need to be defined, as some niche purposes may favor soft over rigid wings or oppositely.  E.g., If a purpose for an AWES is to have a soft system, then rigid just won't do for that purpose. 




   @@attachment@@
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20242 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Re: Multi-MotorGen Drivetrains
The old design practice of "pony" motors and generators (small and large unit in tandem) is a well validated principle in many legacy systems.

MGD, MMD, and MMGD theoretic and historic engineering advantages should be considered apart from Clipper's unlucky MGD market timing. The Clipper story mostly hinges on the 2008 "great recession", rather than design errors by the talented engineers. They likely would have solved MGD "teething" problems given more time and capital, since gearing serves well once you dial-in the design, especially by HALT cycles. This is a slow expensive process at large HAWT scale. 


On Friday, June 10, 2016 11:02 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
1) Old wind turbines often had two generators, for low and high windspeeds. 
2) Clipper Wind with former GE wind people developed multiple-generator turbines to reduce wear on gear teeth by spreading out the stress.  Clipper Wind went bankrupt.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20243 From: dave santos Date: 6/10/2016
Subject: Choice SS Buzz from Ozone and Peter Lynn
What's up at the cutting edge of the sport soft wing revolution that inspires low-complexity AWE thinking? Read on-

Nice description of unique SS dynamics-



Peter Lynn struggles onword toward SS Nirvana-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20244 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

DaveS wrote: "For Megascale AWE (km scale wings), its clear only soft wings do."


Discussions with searchers within AWESCO - Airborne Wind Energy System Modelling, Control and Optimisation - ESR10 mention 1000 mยฒ as scale for soft wings. Some studies seem show the weight increases a little more than the area due to "Durable Structural Reinforcements of Large Scale Fabric Kites ", but not too much.

In previous discussions for some persons 1000 mยฒ area was seen as a huge area, both for soft and rigid wings.


But km scale wings means a far larger area, 100 000 mยฒ of wing(s), 1000 000 mยฒ  and more of swept area.

If some simulation or some prototype shows such a value can be achievable, the viability of AWES can be  proved if there are less expensive methods as sewing, far higher lifetime, less expensive polymers and in wider strips.


PierreB

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20245 From: dave santos Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Megascale Cable-rigging Similarity-Case (Three-Gorges Dam Ship Eleva
We confidently envision megascale AWE components based on other megascale mechanical and civil engineering applications, for similar duty. The global megascale case-base is growing, and the Three-Gorges ship elevator is the latest greatest instance of active cable rigging at the huge force regime AWE must master to power the world. Think of the simple but huge mechanisms as suggestive of potential AWE drivetrains and servos. Many proven megascale parts can now be ordered built from refined plans, almost as COTS. Thousands of engineers formed by varied megascale engineering projects can easily transition their art to AWE challenges.

This is a nice German (engineering partner) overview of the monumental ship elevator design-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20246 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
http://www.awesco.eu/images/ESR10_Skysails/Paulig2013.pdf
Chapter 32 
Conceptual Design of Textile Kites Considering Overall System Performance
Xaver Paulig,
Merlin Bungart, 
Bernd Specht 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20247 From: dave santos Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
Pierre,

Various specialists have calculated in principle that "km-scale"* SS wings will fly without violating basic scaling laws, based on the quasi-2D nature of fabric. KiteShip (Dave Culp) proposed the practical SS scale limit is how big a wing can be controlled in flight, and kPower has further identified ground-handling as a key challenge requiring modular modualr "kixel" sub-units and even airborne assembly. The ability to furl sail-area is also essential. Unlike wind towers, aviation has always relied on evading extreme weather, and AWE is aviation.

Sadly, any rigid airframe built as large as an airliner will sit on the ground without hurricane force winds, which are not most-probable winds, which are far slower. The largest possible rigid airframe would crack-up in practice by fairly minor events that fabric would survive, and fabric repairs are simple compared to damage to rigid structure.

Soft wings win in maximum theoretic scale, but what counts is practical scale. Makani at AWEC2011 (Corwin's presentation) stated a rough 10-to-one area ratio of equivalent power between a large soft kite and a small rigid wing. kPower agrees with this ratio at small rigid-wing scale, but large rigid kiteplanes will just stop performing, barely able to fly at all. Meanwhile, effective soft wings seem possible a hundred times or even a thousand times bigger.

Its clear the soft kite scaling advantage is poorly understood by AWESCO's TUDelft lead, as this webpage* shows, where the scaling advantage does not even make a comparative listing of advantages and disadvantages. Soft-kite advantages are best understood by the specialists, like North, Ozone, Lynn, etc..

daveS

-----------
* including wings of approaching this scale  
Chapter 32 
Conceptual Design of Textile Kites Considering Overall System Performance
Xaver Paulig,
Merlin Bungart, 
Bernd Specht 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20248 From: dave santos Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Biomimetic Wind-Tech Ideas from Pollen and Spore Dispersal Structure
JoeF years ago found leaves to be wind-adapted under kite principles, and we have reviewed a variety of animal kite-dynamic cases, like ballooning spiders and certain coral polyps. Here are two more anemophilic (wind biological) categories to inspire us; fungal spore and botanical pollen dispersal anatomy. 

There is a lot of diversity in form and specific function in these cases. Many of the new plant cases for our study that hang downward can be re-imagined upside down hanging upward, presuming kite or LTA lift to overcome gravity.

The mushroom study cited found a clever geoengineering trick whereby the fruiting bodies create their own wind-weather, if needed, by creating a convective cell driven by latent heat of evaporation (and a bit of metabolic heat) that the spores then ride up and away. This suggests a mesoscopic weather control input by selectively spraying large areas with water in evaporative conditions, which might be done by towed or wind-driven kites.

We depend on it that somewhere in the vast profusion of biological genius there are likely very close analogs of future AWES/Aerotecture formations, and that we can spot these key cases sooner and easier than hope to invent the same solutions in isolation...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20249 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Re: Megascale Cable-rigging Similarity-Case (Three-Gorges Dam Ship E
74 mm = 2.91339 in
 for the diameter of each of the 256 ropes
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20250 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 6/11/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings

DaveS,

 

On your link Flexible structures mentioned advantages of soft wing do not include the scalability, perhaps due to their lack of assessment of predictive informations being on AWE Forum. Specific mega-upscaling of soft wing should be studied in regard to " basic scaling laws, based on the quasi-2D nature of fabric.".

Other concerns (soft vs rigid) are:

  • reliable control
  • lifetime
  • launching (depending on the implemented system)
  • global costs (material, land use)

Perhaps a decisive advantage of soft wing can be the acceptability of public in regard to safety (crashes) and birds. A huge rigid tethered rotor can be difficult for such an acceptability. The scalability you mention appears to be the main point, being not depending of technology as soft and rigid have the same respective problems for a long time. The four points I note above appear to be achievable with more appropriate technologies.

 

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20251 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Re: Soft vs Rigid Wings
Pierre,

It seems that TUDelft simply neglected to cite soft-wing scaling advantage for lack of analysis and experience, without regard to AWES Forum large kite engineering debates. Several less-experienced Forum members also still nurse vague doubts about soft scaling superiority. Why would these skeptical parties keep secret any evidence that rigid kites might scale as well or better than soft kites?

KiteShip, SkySails, Beaujean (an industrial naval engineer), kPower, and others have all have posed strong cases in favor of soft-wing scaling superiority, both in practice and analysis. Galileo's original square-cube law remains the key scientific-engineering argument behind soft-kite scaling advantage, and the AWES Forum has done a consistent job presenting this law-


If this were not enough presentation, TUDelft must have read SkySails text on the AWESCO site and is aware of soft ship-kite scaling logic, but has not reacted with technical logic. There is no known TUD refutation of ship-kite logic, nor do they have known experience with larger rigid AWES wings than Ampyx's small rigid wing experience, nor soft kites any bigger than 50m2.

Diligent comparative testing and/or market success has to be the final word in the "Soft v. Rigid Wings" AWES scaling debate.

daveS

==================

SkySails on AWESCO site-

"...increasing the kite size to more than 1000 m2 which is necessary to generate reasonable power with high altitude kite wind power systems."

"SkySails kites are the key technology for capturing the vast potential of high-altitude winds and SkySails is the first company in the world that has succeeded in developing towing-kite technology into an industrial application.
SkySails GmbH has been working with traction kites for over 10 years. Since 2007 the complete kite design has been made at Skysails. Over 150 kites from wing surface areas of 6 mยฒ to 400 mยฒ were manufactured."


On Saturday, June 11, 2016 8:34 PM, "Pierre BENHAIEM pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
DaveS,
 
On your link Flexible structures mentioned advantages of soft wing do not include the scalability, perhaps due to their lack of assessment of predictive informations being on AWE Forum. Specific mega-upscaling of soft wing should be studied in regard to " basic scaling laws, based on the quasi-2D nature of fabric.".
Other concerns (soft vs rigid) are:
  • reliable control
  • lifetime
  • launching (depending on the implemented system)
  • global costs (material, land use)
Perhaps a decisive advantage of soft wing can be the acceptability of public in regard to safety (crashes) and birds. A huge rigid tethered rotor can be difficult for such an acceptability. The scalability you mention appears to be the main point, being not depending of technology as soft and rigid have the same respective problems for a long time. The four points I note above appear to be achievable with more appropriate technologies.
 
PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20252 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Re: Megascale Cable-rigging Similarity-Case (Three-Gorges Dam Ship E
Joe raises a key point, that 256 wire ropes of a practical diameter are used (rather than just few thicker ropes) for the mega-load handling.

Key reasons include-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20253 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Big Muskie and the Captain (megascale walking drag-line tech)
We have noted giant draglines as one of few close megascale AWES similarity-cases and are now delving deeper into the obvious potential of these sorts of quasi-COTS hardware to actuate and be driven by giant kites. Big Muskie dragline rated at about 20MW of operating power. Considered as a theoretic AWES servo basis, this gear could control a GW scale wing or wing array.

The video impressively shows that massive dragline cable-tech load motions are fast enough to fly and tap giant kites in real wind, just like our sport-kite prototypes do. The Wikipedia page gives the grandiose specifications and misc. background (like the large marching-band that performed in Big Muskie's bucket)-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20254 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Re: Big Muskie and the Captain (megascale walking drag-line tech)
Bucket Wheel excavators are closely comparable to the largest draglines, with even greater production and COTS parts availability, but slower bulk motion unsuited for realtime kite actuation, and the mighty one-way wheel only matching AWES continuous-loop drive concepts-





On Sunday, June 12, 2016 9:04 AM, "dave santos santos137@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
We have noted giant draglines as one of few close megascale AWES similarity-cases and are now delving deeper into the obvious potential of these sorts of quasi-COTS hardware to actuate and be driven by giant kites. Big Muskie dragline rated at about 20MW of operating power. Considered as a theoretic AWES servo basis, this gear could control a GW scale wing or wing array.

The video impressively shows that massive dragline cable-tech load motions are fast enough to fly and tap giant kites in real wind, just like our sport-kite prototypes do. The Wikipedia page gives the grandiose specifications and misc. background (like the large marching-band that performed in Big Muskie's bucket)-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20255 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices
Eureka, steampunk words to describe many-connected kite-lattice topologies. Reading Goethe's Metamorphosis of Plants for biomimetic insight, and there it was, "Anastmosis"; which in Wikipedia led to "Anabranch" (terms suited to win Scabble). Sample usage: "Open-AWE leads anastmosis-based AWES theorizing and experimentation." Non anastmosizing kite farms are also called "comb" or "brush" topologies.

The question begs- Is AWES anastmosis-aloft an essential topological property for large scale kite farm arrays? Yes, as long as alternative non-interference methods are lacking.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20256 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Solar-Impulse closing on Round-the-World First
Strictly speaking, this amazing aircraft making headlines is a hybrid AWES, playing both wind and sun power to the max to circle the globe. Congratualtions to Gabor on yet another manifest IFO developmental milestone by the growing HALE prototype fleet-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20257 From: dave santos Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Faggiani Pietro's TUDelft MSc Thesis- Pumping Kites Wind Farm
This MSc thesis is a broad window into TUDelft's AWES thinking in 2014, with many nice details. A curious ommission in the economic analysis is kite farm labor cost, given PIC/VO FAA AWES requirement. Kite size assumptions are way small, while kite unit spacing overlap assumptions are rather optimistic, given the havoc common turbulence events can cause. Many of us disagree with TUDelft's lossy return-cycle reeling approach, com link dependence, and various other choices. Still, this is a worthy MSc thesis, and good luck to Faggiani in his unfolding career.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20258 From: Rod Read Date: 6/12/2016
Subject: Re: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices

Can you present something about it or discuss it in the upcoming someawe.org unconference please?
Practice unconference session is today at 10EST.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20259 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Re: Faggiani Pietro's TUDelft MSc Thesis- Pumping Kites Wind Farm
Another concern is the expected stress of fabrics due to alternating two modes of flight of soft kites.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20260 From: dave santos Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Re: Faggiani Pietro's TUDelft MSc Thesis- Pumping Kites Wind Farm
The designer designs to the maximum. The lower stress conditions should cause no problem. Slow cycling of states should be no problem. The problem is if the fabric "flogs" like the TE of a flag, then life is reduced. Rigid wings also can fatigue by cycling, but these are not problems in either case with good design. Sport kite flyers should have noticed any persistent problem based on kite load variation (ie. depoering), since they fly in most cases far more aggressively than TUD seeks to. kPower is still trying to wear out quality kites, without much luck. Sun used to kill kites fastest, but the better fabrics are holding up well in recent decades.

TUDelft is just not the best source of kite lifecycle data, since they have not been flying all the time in large numbers, like the kite sport world. The top kite manufactuers are the best source of warnings and advice on how to make a good kite last. TUD clearly prefers a more numeric-analytic approach, and leaves practical kite details to the kite pros to solve. I would not blame Faggiani for not being a regular kite pro. Reinhart seems to be TUD's most practical kite pro, having gone on to create the Peak SS wing at FlySurfer, but he was an exception.

The biggest problem with TUD premature AWES wear is the tether constantly reeling. kPower has long proposed and used heavy wear sections and even belt sections at the groundgen, but with shorter-stroke cycles (Open-AWE_IP-Cloud)




On Monday, June 13, 2016 8:55 AM, "pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Another concern is the expected stress of fabrics due to alternating two modes of flight of soft kites.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20261 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Re: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices
We have for energy kite systems some beginning from the following realms to massage into or with anastmosis and anabraching:
1. Graphs
2. Nets
3. Lattices
4. Ladders
5. Trees
6. Roots
7. Dendritic growth
8. Snowflakes
10. Fences
11. Fractals
13. Series
14. Combinations from the above
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20262 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/13/2016
Subject: Re: Powered Kiting by Polygonal Centroidal Cyclic Winching and Glidi
Attachments :
    Seed exploration: 
    ===========================================
    Here are instructions for a primitive taste of the realm: 
    1. Have a  3 m  length of rubber band (loop many smaller bands together to make up a 3 m length. 
    2. Wear goggles. 
    3. Make two very-alike small model hang gliders (rough it by paperfold wings); tape a tail to each of the two wings, if needed). 
    4. Form an anchoring with a quick release at two places 15 m apart.  Have a string connected to both releases; have the string be 30 m to allow slack aside while forming on the ground an equilateral triangle  with the stretched rubber band as the base of such triangle; the aside vertex of said triangle will be the pilot-control place where operator will be pulling in order to simultaneously release the two wings from their temporary anchors. 
    5. Set the first wing in its anchoring- release. 
    6. Set the second wing in its anchoring-release. 
    7. Connect one end of the rubber band 3 m part to one wing. 
    8. Stretch the 3 m rubber ban and connect its free end to the the other wing. 
    9. Go to the control point arranged in step 4. above. 
    10. Jerk the side sline to release both wing simultaneously.
    11. Observe the two wings move toward each othr and observe climbing from the kiting.  If the wings and bridling are well done for stable kiting flight, then the cliimbing will occur for both wings. 

    Alternatives:
    1.Fancy alternative: R-C radio-electric releases. 
    2. Slight compromise (giving up free-flight to explore simultaneous kiting of HGs): No pre-tension, no R-C, no rubber band, no firm anchoring, but have wings sit with correct attitude in a jig or even little dollies.   Instead of rubber band, use string; have the strings from each wing go to a fairlead at the center of the 5 m separation; have the string long enough to go through the fairlead and to a large-drum that is arranged for manual reeling. Have the fairlead tethered with a long line away from the reel.   Have the wings attached  to the ends of line  at the 15 m or more separated points.   
    Then begin reeling the line onto the drum; observe the wings being kited; observe the fairlead rising up away from the ground.  Keep up the airspeed. 
    Use longer lines for the fairlead line, connecting line, and line for reeling the main connecting line.     Observe; make notes; adjust wings for improved flights. 

    The alternative #2 is given now a graphic:

    		   @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20263 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/13/2016
    Subject: Re: Ampyx Press Coverage
    Well, the following does show that Ampyx is going with some propellers, solving something for them while adding some complexity: 

    LinkedIn





    [Note: for some billions, Microsoft just bought LinkedIn]
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20264 From: dave santos Date: 6/13/2016
    Subject: RC Glider "High-Start" Bungee-Launch Tutorial
    Pro lesson toward launching kites and kiteplanes by old bungee-launch open-source method used even for human piloted gliders. One can envision launching a tethered kite with the bungee and kiteline "anabranched" in parallel. From a single small pilot kite launched this way, a progressive cascade-launch of large arrays can be initiated-
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20265 From: dave santos Date: 6/13/2016
    Subject: Re: Ampyx Press Coverage
    It seems they could use these props in motor-gen modes for launch, to loiter in lulls, and also power onboard avionics as RATs. This is a pretty good "multi-tool" approach, providing redundancy with winch step-tow and enhanced recovery from breakaway. Some weight penalty must happen by whatever Aux Power means chosen. Its sort of vague who has priority to all-modes conception, since Open AWE has covered these concept spaces a lot with our Open-AWE_IP-Cloud, and all the sub-ideas seem like old-hat.


    On Monday, June 13, 2016 2:39 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Well, the following does show that Ampyx is going with some propellers, solving something for them while adding some complexity: 

    LinkedIn





    [Note: for some billions, Microsoft just bought LinkedIn]
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20266 From: dave santos Date: 6/13/2016
    Subject: Reinhart's Peak2 SS for FLySurfer
    Reinhart is a key figure in AWE, the best of the TUDelft and KULeuven circle, was close to Wubbo, and is one of the elite handful of kite designers behind recent rapid advances in SS kites. His latest Peak2 SS design builds on the the pioneering Peak1 for Flysurfer-
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20267 From: Rod Read Date: 6/13/2016
    Subject: Re: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices

    I saw a good one yesterday...
    Routen des Knotenpunktsystems
    Or nodal network maps (I think)

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20268 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Makani no longer wrongly tops Google AWE Searches
    For a long time, Google's Makani Power topped Google search results in AWE, under various keyword combinations, while other search engines returned broad neutral info links at top, like Wikipedia or Joe's archives. Google has been widely attacked for similar skewed results across many commercial sectors, and was in fact convicted in the EU for search results favoring its business interests. Complaints about AWE search were sent to Google/Makani and posed on the AWES Forum, amounting to a demand to cease and desist or class-action might result.

    This problem in Google AWE search seems now to be fixed. Makani now pops up well down the search results, in accordance with its status as just one of many AWE R&D efforts. Given the culture of secrecy Google maintains, we can only guess that someone got nervous that Google could be sued for favoring Makani, its own subsidiary, over all the rest of us, and the results were un-cooked. We have no public information just how Makani had jumped to the top in the first place, in contrast to what a sound ranking algorithm would be expected to display. The guess has been that Makani somehow used superior knowledge of the ranking process to reach the top, rather than a manual manipulation.

    Its known Makani is struggling to make good on its high-risk high-complexity AWES architectural downselect and scaling effort, and may be facing a tremendous debacle. News has dried up as we all wait in suspense. These could be factors in the changing AWE search picture. Meanwhile, Antonello Cherubini has been celebrating on his blog that somehow his AWE overview came to top Google search for "Airborne Wind Energy" (how I learned Google-Makani search domination had lifted). We no longer worry that Google will own the sky, after so many years of Makani missteps while Open-AWE has slowly taken root, and many fine competing teams have emerged.

    Please help monitor Google AWE search results for fairness. Individual results could be manipulated by user profiling. It would be hilarious if Google somehow contrived to bury Makani in results only for its expert skeptics.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20269 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Re: Makani no longer wrongly tops Google AWE Searches
    Maybe their plane crashed.  Maybe they've been out in a field trying to find all the pieces.
    I tried to post several weeks ago to convey the news that Google had changed its company name to "Alphabet" so as to appear "alphabetically" ahead of Apple and Amazon in lists of stocks (my interpretation), but was blocked.
    They spun off all their money-losing blue-sky projects as a separate company where such concepts would have to prove themselves, rather than just riding on the coat-tails of Alphabet, formerly known as Google.
    I suspect they came in at the top of search results because they generated the most hype, like Magenn before them. Then they suddenly shut up.  Another case of "they quietly go away"?  Seems that even with workable concepts, execution is lacking.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20270 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Kategorie:Industrielle Anwendung
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20271 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Re: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices
    http://tinyurl.com/NodalNetworkMaps

    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <rod.read@gmail.com I saw a good one yesterday... Routen des Knotenpunktsystems Or nodal network maps (I think)
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20272 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Re: Makani no longer wrongly tops Google AWE Searches
    No M600 has yet been seen to crash next to the one major highway across the Hawaii Big Island. Predicable engineering delay accounts for schedule delay without real mystery. The erection of the large M600 launch tower will be the public signal a test is near.

    Alphabetic stock listings are not a serious business factor (Google grew better down-list), but Doug is right to note that [Google/Makani] "generated the most hype" can also account for the wrongly skewed search pattern (not just direct cooked-search). The over-hype was hardly respectable either, nor are search engines that fall for their own self-serving hype.

    Makani hype has lately abated into suspenseful calm before a seemingly looming storm. What an amazing tech story we are all players in.


    On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 7:57 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Maybe their plane crashed.  Maybe they've been out in a field trying to find all the pieces.
    I tried to post several weeks ago to convey the news that Google had changed its company name to "Alphabet" so as to appear "alphabetically" ahead of Apple and Amazon in lists of stocks (my interpretation), but was blocked.
    They spun off all their money-losing blue-sky projects as a separate company where such concepts would have to prove themselves, rather than just riding on the coat-tails of Alphabet, formerly known as Google.
    I suspect they came in at the top of search results because they generated the most hype, like Magenn before them. Then they suddenly shut up.  Another case of "they quietly go away"?  Seems that even with workable concepts, execution is lacking.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20273 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Kategorie:Industrielle Anwendung
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20274 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Re: Anastmosis and Anabranching of AWES Lattices
    Yes, our conceptual kite network designs are strongly nodal, but a distinguishing feature of these early schemes are high crystaline/ topological order, compared to messy ad hoc networks like the Net. Someday the global sky could be a messy yet productive nodal network in the spirit of the heterogeneous smart-grid concepts.

    We have already been using node-antinode (lattice mechanics) terms in the context of harmonic analysis of our theoretic kite lattice networks.


    On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 8:21 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  

    ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <rod.read@gmail.com I saw a good one yesterday... Routen des Knotenpunktsystems Or nodal network maps (I think)
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20275 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Origami Lattice Mechanics for KiteMatter Cases
    The folding possibilities of kite surfaces for multi-mode AWES (esp. furling) and soft-aerotecture applications are subject to mathematical engineering physics of Origami presented in this admirable paper-
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20276 From: dougselsam Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Re: Makani no longer wrongly tops Google AWE Searches
    You know, I'm more than a little tired of having every post of mine immediately "corrected".
    I said maybe their plane crashed.  That's a maybe.  A hypothetical.  I think we can safely assume if daveS knew about a crash next to a major highway, we would have heard about it.  Alternatives could be that it crashed somewhere else, or they are afraid to fly it because they think it will crash, etc.

    daveS says: "No M600 has yet been seen to crash next to the one major highway across the Hawaii Big Island.     Predicable engineering delay accounts for schedule delay without real mystery."

    *** Doug Replies: you mean a "delay" like your "AWE-powered concert" or "powering a remote village in Alaska", or "power to the grid in Hawaii"?  Since he doesn't really know, does He really mean "accounts for", or should he have said "might account for", or "could account for"?  Is not "predicable delay" an oxymoron in the sense that if a delay was "predicable" it would not be a delay?

    ===========================================
     He goes on: "The erection of the large M600 launch tower will be the public signal a test is near."

    ***Doug Replies:  1) So much for AWE dispensing with the dreaded tower...
                                   2) The above statement assumes the erection of the tower is publicly known...  They could have changed venues again, but this time they didn't tell everyone.

    ===========================================

    daveS continues, just to make sure every detail of what I posted is "corrected"...
    "Alphabetic stock listings are not a serious business factor"

    *** Doug Replies: Yes it is.  It is well-known that list of stocks are normally alphabetical, and that even investors are only human and tend to get weary before reaching the bottom of the list.  It's well known to have a ticker near the top of the list is advantageous.  Have we found a new subject for which He is "an expert"?  It's the same idea as naming your plumbing company AAA Plumbing to get first placement in the phone book.  Even big corporations are subject to human nature.

    ===========================================

    As evidence He claims "(Google grew better down-list)." 

    Doug replies: but this could also prove my point since stagnating prices would be a catalyst for such a change.  The stated reason was to spin off money-losing blue-sky projects. The real reason emerges when you consider the letter "L" is just ahead of the letter "M":  If you were wondering why they chose a seemingly incongruous name like "alphabet", consider that it would fall out naturally if the directive was "choose a name ahead of Amazon", in which case a name that started with "AL" instead of "AM" would fit the bill - mystery solved!

    ===========================================

    Next, I am baffled: He states that I could have been right about something: "but Doug is right to note that [Google/Makani] "generated the most hype" can also account for the wrongly skewed search pattern (not just direct cooked-search).

    Doug replies:  Think about this though: Doesn't the fine print allow them to read all our e-mails?  They can watch everything you search for and everything you say.  The paranoid among us have probably already taken steps to avoid them constantly looking over our shoulders.  Personally I could care less.   If you can't convince people you have good ideas, why pretend they are trying to steal them?

    ===========================================

    daveS continues: "The over-hype was hardly respectable either, nor are search engines that fall for their own self-serving hype."

    Doug replies: How many years can lackluster results be blamed on the bureaucratic quicksand of others?

    ===========================================
    daveS summarizes:  Makani hype has lately abated into suspenseful calm before a seemingly looming storm.

    DougS replies:  The above is stated as a fact, though I surmise it is mere conjecture.  What evidence do any of us have of a looming Makani storm, versus they simply cannot make it happen?

    ===========================================
    daveS concludes: "What an amazing tech story we are all players in."

    DougS replies: We are?  We?  Because nobody has heard anything from Makani lately?  Well, OK, if you say so...  Is Magenn "a player"?  Were they ever?  Or were they a distraction?  Just sayin'...
    ===========================================
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20277 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Re: Makani no longer wrongly tops Google AWE Searches
    It was clear from his prior post that Doug was unaware of the public visibility of the M600 test program. This large dangerous aircraft program is being watched closely by the FAA, AOPA, EAA, and so on. NOTAM must be filed. He overlooks our own Makani reporter network. for example, my astronomer uncle lives a few minutes drive from the Parker Ranch site, and friends on Alameda Island watched adjacent develoments over years. Doug is confused to think Makani tower dependance applies to AWE generally. Engineering (or business) delay is in fact common, including any reasons Doug himself invokes. Rapid corrections of anyone's posts are consistent with the Forum RAD mission. Doug should form new topics when he writes at length off-topic. 



    On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:50 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    You know, I'm more than a little tired of having every post of mine immediately "corrected".
    I said maybe their plane crashed.  That's a maybe.  A hypothetical.  I think we can safely assume if daveS knew about a crash next to a major highway, we would have heard about it.  Alternatives could be that it crashed somewhere else, or they are afraid to fly it because they think it will crash, etc.

    daveS says: "No M600 has yet been seen to crash next to the one major highway across the Hawaii Big Island.     Predicable engineering delay accounts for schedule delay without real mystery."

    *** Doug Replies: you mean a "delay" like your "AWE-powered concert" or "powering a remote village in Alaska", or "power to the grid in Hawaii"?  Since he doesn't really know, does He really mean "accounts for", or should he have said "might account for", or "could account for"?  Is not "predicable delay" an oxymoron in the sense that if a delay was "predicable" it would not be a delay?

    ===========================================
     He goes on: "The erection of the large M600 launch tower will be the public signal a test is near."

    ***Doug Replies:  1) So much for AWE dispensing with the dreaded tower...
                                   2) The above statement assumes the erection of the tower is publicly known...  They could have changed venues again, but this time they didn't tell everyone.

    ===========================================

    daveS continues, just to make sure every detail of what I posted is "corrected"...
    "Alphabetic stock listings are not a serious business factor"

    *** Doug Replies: Yes it is.  It is well-known that list of stocks are normally alphabetical, and that even investors are only human and tend to get weary before reaching the bottom of the list.  It's well known to have a ticker near the top of the list is advantageous.  Have we found a new subject for which He is "an expert"?  It's the same idea as naming your plumbing company AAA Plumbing to get first placement in the phone book.  Even big corporations are subject to human nature.

    ===========================================

    As evidence He claims "(Google grew better down-list)." 

    Doug replies: but this could also prove my point since stagnating prices would be a catalyst for such a change.  The stated reason was to spin off money-losing blue-sky projects. The real reason emerges when you consider the letter "L" is just ahead of the letter "M":  If you were wondering why they chose a seemingly incongruous name like "alphabet", consider that it would fall out naturally if the directive was "choose a name ahead of Amazon", in which case a name that started with "AL" instead of "AM" would fit the bill - mystery solved!

    ===========================================

    Next, I am baffled: He states that I could have been right about something: "but Doug is right to note that [Google/Makani] "generated the most hype" can also account for the wrongly skewed search pattern (not just direct cooked-search).

    Doug replies:  Think about this though: Doesn't the fine print allow them to read all our e-mails?  They can watch everything you search for and everything you say.  The paranoid among us have probably already taken steps to avoid them constantly looking over our shoulders.  Personally I could care less.   If you can't convince people you have good ideas, why pretend they are trying to steal them?

    ===========================================

    daveS continues: "The over-hype was hardly respectable either, nor are search engines that fall for their own self-serving hype."

    Doug replies: How many years can lackluster results be blamed on the bureaucratic quicksand of others?

    ===========================================
    daveS summarizes:  Makani hype has lately abated into suspenseful calm before a seemingly looming storm.

    DougS replies:  The above is stated as a fact, though I surmise it is mere conjecture.  What evidence do any of us have of a looming Makani storm, versus they simply cannot make it happen?

    ===========================================
    daveS concludes: "What an amazing tech story we are all players in."

    DougS replies: We are?  We?  Because nobody has heard anything from Makani lately?  Well, OK, if you say so...  Is Magenn "a player"?  Were they ever?  Or were they a distraction?  Just sayin'...
    ===========================================
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20278 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Control-Pod Networks for Variable SS Airfoils and as a WECS Lattice
    Lazy-jack (sailing) and whippletree (draft team) rigs passively redistribute variable loads with an equalizing effect. Some power kite bridles act as lazy-jacks, so this old pulley network rigging method has been covered here before. The common EU control-pod (SkySails and TUDelft) is a suitable pulley replacement unit to convert a passive lazy-jack pulley network to active. Call it a "busy-jack" or "active-whippletree" concept. The typical mechanical basis is a toothed-belt gear-drive between two bridle lines.

    This sort of freely programmable active bridling would allow an SS kite airfoil to be varied optimally according to wind velocity (including depower and furling) load, tack and other orientation states, and help counter upset in turbulence. in essence, the lone control-pod is repurposed as a standard node in a larger control-pod trimming network. Many other busy-jack applications besides active SS wings are possible. In particular, active lattices can harvest energy via the pod actuation network driven by wind in reverse, in WECS mode.

    Open-AWE_IP-Cloud
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20279 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Re: Control-Pod Networks for Variable SS Airfoils and as a WECS Latt
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20280 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Re: Fanbelting Groundgen
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20281 From: dave santos Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Re: Fanbelting Groundgen
    An interesting design, but very scale-limited if based on rigid spars.

    Rod should consider the Daisy with a belt or rope loop around the crown to fly higher with lower drag and major weight-savings. The groundgen PTO would be downwind. Load velocity would be high and transmission losses low. This might scale to Beaujean's  grand spin-basket concept, with a simpler PTO basis. This drive method is also applicable to Pierre's WheelWind.


    On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 6:42 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20282 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/14/2016
    Subject: Re: Powered Kiting by Polygonal Centroidal Cyclic Winching and Glidi
    [quote] by Frank Colver ยป Tue Jun 14, 2016 6:24 pm
    Isn't this asking for a head on collision? :o[/quote]

    Yes and No.  
    Yes, if reeling continues !     :) 

    Should have noted:  [b]Slack before head-on colliding![/b]   Such technique was rehearsed in the introduction posts, but not said again in the post on the primitive experiment.   

    Thanks, Frank.