Attachments :

Hi Dave,

Kitewinder's CEO Olivier Normand has announced that the company is scaling up into larger and higher performance blades for AWE uses. 

Michiel Kruijff 

US9178241    High Altitude Platform

US4832571

Dec 23, 1987

May 23, 1989

Flexible tethered wind turbine

Frank L. Carroll

This looks like Altaeros on steroids.
I'd guess this technology must read on Altaeros patents.
I know it reads on mine.

Not sure what "statement" the preceding post refers to, but to say "the pioneering phase is over" is equivalent to saying the pioneering phase of automotive development was over before the wheel came into common use, let alone pneumatic tires and paved roads.  If this were automotive development I'd say we're still "pre-bicycle", or maybe "pre-horse & carriage".   We're still walking.  Maybe crawling.  Certainly stumbling.  Floundering.  Without any AWE system in daily operation, who in their right mind would make such a claim?  Is it that they feel their mastery of group photos has reached a point where no further improvement is possible?

I agree with this analysis.
It seems amazing that so many purport to explore AWE yet do not seem to grasp even the most basic fundamentals involved.

Yes well excuse me for forwarding an article that seemed of interest to those on the forum interested in sails, but thanks for summarizing the real story, as well as my latest thinking.  Always good to make sure everything I say is properly filtered, even if it is just providing a link to an article.

Could be used to fight global cooling...

I think you are confused about my statements, thus misrepresenting my expressed opinions, past & present:
3) I've maintained that cloth sails as working surfaces were superseded over 100 years ago, with single-skin working surfaces obsolete around 1000 years ago.
2) I never said cloth sails have no use or possible promise in AWE.  I've always been a big fan of kites and have a couple that I fly every so often, although my windfarm-class wind resource is too much for most kites - they get ripped apart pretty quickly.  Luckily we have ductape...
1) This article did mention single-skin sails.

Joe, the propellers are for launching, landing, and general maneuvering.

The main questions would seem:

1)  How many more years can the kite-reeling efforts go on without having a product, and still remain credible?
(If we accept kite-reeling as a religion, we might expect to wait at least 2000 years with no loss of credibility.  I mean, people are still impressed with that group picture of 12 smiling disciples...

2) Will kite-reeling actually turn out to be an economically-viable method of harvesting wind energy?
(Let's remember, regular wind energy has been continually getting cheaper, and solar even more so.)

If they can't generate power economically, maybe they could just sell that electric airplane as a product.  I would like one!

Wow thanks for digging up an old post.
This is an old topic on this forum.
Last I remember, you were citing an obscure GE supposed effort to develop blades comprising a frame with cloth stretched over it, like some light planes, and somewhat similar to the old Dutch design used for hundreds of years.  Of course they got millions in free money for this well-publicized "project".
While this is a far cry from using kites as working surfaces, it is yet the evidence you've offered to bolster your position that cloth working surfaces represent an economically-effective wind energy solution.  So, since you have used this project to support your position, maybe you could update us on the progress of that project.  Don't get me wrong - sounds worth pursuing to me, and as I mentioned I advocated additional patented features to their international director of research, at a national conference.  My perception was that he, personally, didn't take the whole idea of the cloth-covered blades very seriously.   Funny how these "projects" are announced with great fanfare, get covered by all the magazines and websites, millions are allocated, then they "quietly go away"...  Sound familiar?

Thank God for Aircraft Spruce.  Not only are they local (here in Southern California) but they ship same day, and do not mind small orders for metal tubing.  Like Selsam Innovations and Fender Guitars, they were located in Fullerton.  Now we've all moved inland - Fender and Aircraft Spruce are now in Corona, while we went further, to the Cajon Pass, known for its incredible wind resource.  I buy from them all the time and usually end up stopping in whenever I'm driving by on the 91 freeway.  Last purchase was aircraft-grade bolts for a hang glider.  And of course they have cloth for airplanes - with a SuperCub-type STOL plane hanging from the ceiling as an example.  So, can you tell us about a grid-connected wind energy project using cloth sails?

That thing is insane!  Pretty scary though, if power goes down or anything goes wrong at less than 250 feet.  I'd recommend a ballistic parachute.  Don't worry, nothing wrong with Gizmag - that was just another typical weak attempt to invalidate me.  :)

Thanks for spelling my name right daveS.  From my perspective, your thrust is to lob grenades at me then run away.  There doesn't seem to be any limit to the lengths you'll go to try and denigrate me.  If I try to post, no matter the topic, you feel obligated to restate, filter, or otherwise "correct" anything I say.

Citing a boring, fairly neutral article about sails, which you normally promote, could be viewed, in hindsight, as a test to see how many ways you would try to turn it into an argument.  Looks like you've tried to start several over it, even to the point of trying to invalidate Gizmag as a valid information source.  Whatever it takes, right? 

You claim to be "an expert".  You apparently consider yourself a master-debater.  My take that you like to run out and lob a grenade, then run away means you like to start debates, but are unable to finish them.  Do you want to be taken seriously or not?  Can you finish what you started?

Let's stick to the latest topic: cloth blades for wind turbines.  You had put forth GE developing cloth-covered blades as evidence that I was wrong about cloth blades not being used in wind energy.  So, please follow up now.   A few years have gone by, so you now you have the luxury to complete your argument.  Please tell us how the GE project went, and what is the next step.  They got 3 million from Arpa-E for this.  That is certainly enough to build a set and run them.  So, can we please see the photos or videos of the alleged cloth-covered blades in operation, and some data regarding performance?
Thanks
:)
DougS