Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 19980 to 20029 Page 293 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19980 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/21/2016
Subject: Re: Ampyx Press Coverage

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19981 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/22/2016
Subject: Our forum topics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19982 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/24/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19983 From: Rod Read Date: 4/24/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19984 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/24/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19985 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/24/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19986 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19987 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: AWEuC-1 Announcement

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19988 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19989 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19990 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19991 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19992 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Our forum topics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19993 From: dave santos Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: AWEuC-1 Announcement

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19994 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19995 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19996 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19997 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19998 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: AWE Culture ? What is it?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19999 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20000 From: dave santos Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20001 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20002 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20003 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20004 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20005 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20006 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20007 From: santos137@yahoo.com Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20008 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: AWE Culture ? What is it?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20009 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: William G. Roeseler

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20010 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20011 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20012 From: dave santos Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20013 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20014 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20015 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotors in Control-Line Aviation, an arch kit

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20016 From: dave santos Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20017 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20018 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20019 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20020 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Centrifugally stiffened rotors in control-line aviation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20021 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20022 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20023 From: dave santos Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20024 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20025 From: dave santos Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20026 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/28/2016
Subject: Hertha Marks Ayrton

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20027 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/28/2016
Subject: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20028 From: dave santos Date: 4/28/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20029 From: dave santos Date: 4/28/2016
Subject: Re: Hertha Marks Ayrton



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19980 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/21/2016
Subject: Re: Ampyx Press Coverage
Ampyx Power 
Some software news: 
 April 20, 2016 13:26 ET

 Lynx Software Technologies Provides Certifiable Software Platform for Airborne Wind Energy Generation System LynxOS-178 Is an Integral Component for the Ampyx Power's PowerPlane

MUNICH, GERMANY--(Marketwired - April 20, 2016) -  Aviation Electronics Europe -- Lynx Software Technologies, a world leader in the embedded software market, today announced that LynxOS-178 has been selected as the software platform for Ampyx Power. Ampyx Power is developing an Airborne Wind Energy system with a PowerPlane, a tethered aircraft that converts wind into economical green electricity.

Erik van der Heide, Head of Engineering at Ampyx Power, commented, "To be able to market our technology successfully, it is crucial that we comply with the highest safety standards. Not only should the level of the quality and reliability of our system be high, it needs to be measurable and controllable as well. We have chosen to be able to certify our product according to stringent civil aviation safety guidelines, so we need a software platform that supports us in achieving acceptance by the Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) and European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and other relevant aviation authorities. The fact that LynxOS-178 is a Commercial off-the-Shelf (COTS) operating system which has received acceptance for reusability from the FAA for DO-178 certification, and from EASA, was an important criterion in our selection process."

He continued, "The Ampyx Power system represents an exceptional design challenge. The aircraft can fly completely autonomously. PowerPlanes take off, fly and land autonomously from a platform, by utilizing a vast array of sensor suites which provide the autopilot with critical information to perform the task safely. It is designed to spend unusually long periods in the air -- it can remain airborne 24 hours a day seven days a week if conditions are suitable, and is designed for a service life of 20 years. The aircraft needs a software platform of exceptional stability and reliability. LynxOS-178 fully meets that requirement. During the selection process and subsequent development work, we enjoyed a close and productive relationship with the Lynx team."

Lee Cresswell, EMEA Sales Director, Lynx Software Technologies, added, "We are very excited to be offered the opportunity to contribute to a unique system that will create economical renewable energy for many years to come. Ampyx Power's technology is an excellent and highly innovative use case for LynxOS-178, demonstrating its ability to help design teams achieve the accreditations they need to get safety-critical airborne systems to market quickly and with minimal risk."

About Ampyx

Ampyx Power is developing an Airborne Wind Energy system, a 2nd generation wind energy technology. A tethered aircraft, the PowerPlane, converts wind at an altitude of up to 450m into electricity. When the aircraft moves, it pulls the tether which drives a generator on the ground. Ampyx Power is working towards a 2MW PowerPlane with a wingspan of 30m (size of 1 blade of a wind turbine) for market introduction in 2019. Ampyx Power is set to disrupt the energy market due to high energy yield and low cost/kWh, coupled with low visual, noise & environmental impact -- allowing a fast transition towards a sustainable energy mix. Ampyx Power's main office is based in The Hague, The Netherlands, and employs a top notch team of 40 employees. For more information, visit www.ampyxpower.com or follow us on Twitter: @ampyxpower

About Lynx Software Technologies

Lynx Software Technologies, a world leader in the embedded software market, is committed to providing the highest levels of safety and security in its RTOS and virtualization products. The latest product in the portfolio, the award winning LynxSecure offers a secure separation kernel and embedded hypervisor that forms a platform for the development of highly secure systems. Since it was established in 1988, Lynx Software Technologies has created technology that has been successfully deployed in thousands of designs and millions of products made by leading communications, avionics, aerospace/defense, and consumer electronics companies. Lynx headquarters are located in San Jose, CA. For more information, visit www.lynx.com.

The URL for this release is located at: www.lynx.com

Lynx Software Technologies is a trademark and LynxOS is a registered trademark of Lynx Software Technologies, Inc. Other brand or product names are registered trademarks or trademarks of the respective holders.

CONTACT INFORMATION

  • Media Contacts:
    Kirsten Long
    Lynx Software Technologies, Inc.
    408-979-4404
    klong@lnxw.com

    Europe:
    Peter van der Sluijs
    Neesham Public Relations
    +44 (0) 1296 628180
    peterv@neesham.co.uk
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19981 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/22/2016
Subject: Our forum topics
Some of the things that may be done in our forum: 
  • Incidents: Report carefully incidents, so the AWE community may avoid such incidents. 
  • Experiments: Show and tell of experiments, so the AWE community may confirm locally and also avoid unnecessary duplication after confirmations. 
  • Job Opportunities: Announce job opportunities within teams, companies, and corporations that are serving AWE. 
  • Part plans: Describe the full plans of interesting parts of AWES, so others may consider constructing those parts. 
  • Papers: Publication of copies or links to copies of essays, papers, theses, and dissertations that face AWE matters. 
  • Patents: Links to patents that affect AWE. Discuss the details and claims in those patents. 
  • Meeting minutes: Present minutes of AWE meetings. 
  • Videos: Show video of flight experiments. Discuss the contents of those videos. 
  • Drawings:   Drawings made in any program or photocopied of AWES items may be shared to the world. 
  • News releases:  Direct or linked news releases may be posted. Discussion of the details of the release may occur. 
  • Correction of text:  Typos, factual errors, incomplete sentences, and the like are important to be posted, so the record is as clear as possible. 
  • Presentation of theories: Thinkers may post their AWE-related theories.  Others may query the thinkers, argue politely, and perhaps help develop a given theory. 
  • Dream:   Dreams and futurisms are invited to be shared. 
  • Prediction:  Some will dare to predict certain AWE matters. 
  • Controversial questions:  Polite argument on sides of controversial AWE questions is welcome.
  • Comparison of AWES or involved parts:   Comparing two or more AWES is welcome. Report experiment that compare AWES. 
  • Calculations: Showing the calculations for an analyzed result may be appropriate at times. 
  • Opinions, beliefs, hunches, feelings:   Stating and owning feelings, hunches, beliefs, and opinions on AWE matters while adhering to forum and Yahoo! policies are great material for sharing in a post.  
  • Art: Fine art, commercial art, logos, and the like that advance the AWE scene in the world is on topic.
  • Declaration of assumptions and definitions:  If there is any sense that readers may be helped by overt declaration of assumptions and definitions in order to well read a post, then please state clearly the involved assumptions and definitions. 
  • Events:  Details about coming events announced from a responsible event officer are welcome. 
  • AWEIA: Reports about steps within AWEIA may be recorded.
  • AWESCO:   Reports about steps within AWESCO are appropriate for the forum. 
  • Team activities: All AWE-focused teams, clubs, project, etc. would do well to recorded their progress in the forum. 
  • Kite festivals involving AWE:  Tell all before  and after the festival. Show, tell. 
  • Line:  Continued study and discussion of lines and line matters would serve AWE RAD. 
  • Introductions: Introduce yourself to the AWE community. 
  • History:  Paragraphs, essays, or more about the history of some aspect of AWE would be helpful. 
  • Science: Links to AWE-helpful science and discussion of same will sometimes be additive to the program. 
  • ?
  •  (this list is incomplete)
Descriptions of line items that would seem to fit this topic are invited in this focused topic thread. 

Search the forum messages to see if a topic is already started on one's concern; please use that topic thread.  Else for a descriptive title for a new topic. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19982 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/24/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

The implementation of CSR as AWES can be limited by the wind force countering the centrifugal force. Perhaps some level of stiffeness of the rotor could be achieved by using wind force.  


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19983 From: Rod Read Date: 4/24/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
More than perhaps Pierre,
I apologise for the poor clarity of my written work https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0qQxFlXu7t-cEt0R052Rko0ZDA
You've probably seen it already.
Reading it isn't so easy.

Where I said
· The conical ring kite shape inflates with oncoming wind.
· A 3mm diameter carbon epoxy rod stiffens & opens the ring kite leading edge.
· The asymmetric driving kites’ longitudinal expansion forces pull the ring open.
and
Longitudinal expansion force comes from the entrained mass of the ram air
kites rotating about the axis, as well as aerodynamic forces due to Anhedral arc
and bank angle.

This implies, I believe, that Daisy uses centrifugal expansion as well as kite dynamic force to maintain the perimeter "stiffness" with tension.

Proof other than video, I hope will soon come from some Scottish universities, interested in small scale studies of Daisy.
I contacted Mark D Moore, (Likes Daisy vids) nice guy. busy guy. hopefully he can untangle my report too.

As an aside, Saw the Nastrid Palaces of the Alhambra the other day.
https://journeyphotographic.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/alhambra_nasrid_palaces_roof.jpg
Stacked arches architecture inspiration galore

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19984 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/24/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Гибкие лопасти вертолета, эксперимент

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19985 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/24/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Charybdis

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19986 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19987 From: snapscan_snapscan Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: AWEuC-1 Announcement

While we all wait in excitement for AWEC2017: How about trying something new - an Airborne Wind Energy un-Conference (AWEuC)? 

(un·con·fer·ence: “a loosely structured conference emphasizing the informal exchange of information and ideas between participants, rather than following a conventionally structured program of events.” for a more detailed definition see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconference)

I am excited that the MIT Media Lab has agreed to let us use their Unhangout platform for running an online Airborne Wind Energy un Conference! 

(Unhangout is a platform for running online un-conferences. It uses Google Hangouts to create as many small sessions as needed, and helps users find others with shared interests.
Think of it as a classroom with an infinite number of breakout sessions. Each event has a landing page, which we call the lobby. When participants arrive, they can see who else is there and chat with each other. Participants then break out into smaller sessions (up to 10 people per session) for in-depth conversations. UnHangouts are community-based learning instead of top-down information transfer. For details please see https://unhangout.media.mit.edu/about/)

I (Christof Beaupoil) will be your host – but the event will be nothing without your participation!

Please let me know if you:

• Plan to attend 
• Have a suggestions for a session and if you would be willing to host a session

A session can be anything from:

• a formal presentation
• 5-15 minutes of prepared material followed by an interactive discussion
• Group discussion (identify a topic you are interested in, others come to join the conversation
• Your big (or little) question - You have a question you want to know the answer to, and you think others in the group could help you answer it. 
• Show and tell - You have a cool project, a demo, or just something to show and that is the springboard for all the conversation in the session.

Or just join to listen in and get to see me struggle with the latest and greatest in online technology :)

If you are an someAWE.org member you can confirm your participation here: AWEuC-1 or simply go to 

AWEuC-1 on June 17th 2016 at 10am EST

The event will be free (as in beer and in speech), friendly and focused.

Enjoy!
/cb

PS: I am using a bunch of new tools to set this up - please be lenient towards me if I mess things up a little - I usually get it right at the second try :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19988 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Context:
History, A Projection of the Future:
A Rotary Wing Perspective
Robert J. Huston
Distinguished Research Associate
NASA Langley Research Center

Sept. 26-28, 1995
==================================
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19989 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Matthew M. Winston, Langley Langley Research Center Station, Hampton, VA*,
"An Investigation of Extremely Flexible Rotors," NASA TND-4465
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680010485.pdf

"A Hovering Investigation of an Extremely Flexible Lifting Rotor," NASA TND-4820, 1968
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19680026862.pdf
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19990 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
There are better sources probably of this page. Shown is the start page of the paper by Richard R. Pruyn and Thomas G. Swales.    1964.   Development of Rotor Blades with Extreme Chordwise and Spanwise Flexibility.
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19991 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Investigation of an Extremely Flexible Stowable Rotor for
Micro-helicopters
by
Jerome Sicard, B.S.    
THESIS
Presented to the Faculty of the Graduate School of
The University of Texas at Austin
in Partial Fulfillment
of the Requirements
for the Degree of
MASTER OF SCIENCE IN ENGINEERING
The University of Texas at Austin
May 2011

Download PDF:  
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19992 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Our forum topics
Some MORE of the things that may be done in our forum:

  • Treat our forum as a conference room.
Arrive and say some AWE things; you have the world of AWE and the world listening (reading) your presentation. Some AWE responders will reply soon or later. The topic you present sticks available for those who may attend today, tomorrow, or at some time in the future. No travel expenses! Wide audience! AWE community members may post. Questions may be posed on your topic! You may post answers to the questions. Form your room by carefully typing a title to your presentation. Attach photos; link photos. Attach posters or link to posters. Attach drawings or link to drawings. Build your topic robustly! Sound files may be attached, if sound is wanted; speech files may be attached, if you want people to hear your voice. Videos with your voice may be attached or linked.   THIS ASSET IS AVAILABLE ALL DAY 24/7/365.  And the record is searchable.   The world may see and hear and read the unfolding awesome AWE sharing.  Spectacular opportunity awaits researchers, engineers, dreamers, scientists, students, thinkers,.... 

Open a topic thread (conference room) on the AWE topic of your choice (search first to see if a room or topic is already started on your concern; then use that active room (topic thread) to CONTINUE the topic with others.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19993 From: dave santos Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: AWEuC-1 Announcement
How wonderful that geographic limitations of traditional scientific conferences are being overcome. Physical conferences themselves are enhanced by fully engaged online participation. Concurrent super-conferences will be a very social event, especially as active conversations roll around world time-zones. No longer will planners have to restrict AWE content to time-slots cut-to-fit local conference-room logistics.

Perhaps we should just lay down concurrent conference tracks to Moritz's AWEC2017 dates, without him specifically needed to bless or condemn the process. A Seattle-based concurrent track could just be one of any number of satellite conferences. The key integration dynamic is for participation and ideas to flow freely over the conference global  network, with the same social benefits that used to require physical presence. It still seems worthwhile to have serious conference planning, and expect technical presenters to prepare carefully (while also diligently enabling open-discussion).


On Monday, April 25, 2016 10:05 AM, "snapscan_snapscan@yahoo.de [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
While we all wait in excitement for AWEC2017: How about trying something new - an Airborne Wind Energy un-Conference (AWEuC)? 

(un·con·fer·ence: “a loosely structured conference emphasizing the informal exchange of information and ideas between participants, rather than following a conventionally structured program of events.” for a more detailed definition see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconference)

I am excited that the MIT Media Lab has agreed to let us use their Unhangout platform for running an online Airborne Wind Energy un Conference! 

(Unhangout is a platform for running online un-conferences. It uses Google Hangouts to create as many small sessions as needed, and helps users find others with shared interests.
Think of it as a classroom with an infinite number of breakout sessions. Each event has a landing page, which we call the lobby. When participants arrive, they can see who else is there and chat with each other. Participants then break out into smaller sessions (up to 10 people per session) for in-depth conversations. UnHangouts are community-based learning instead of top-down information transfer. For details please see https://unhangout.media.mit.edu/about/)

I (Christof Beaupoil) will be your host – but the event will be nothing without your participation!

Please let me know if you:

• Plan to attend 
• Have a suggestions for a session and if you would be willing to host a session

A session can be anything from:

• a formal presentation
• 5-15 minutes of prepared material followed by an interactive discussion
• Group discussion (identify a topic you are interested in, others come to join the conversation
• Your big (or little) question - You have a question you want to know the answer to, and you think others in the group could help you answer it. 
• Show and tell - You have a cool project, a demo, or just something to show and that is the springboard for all the conversation in the session.

Or just join to listen in and get to see me struggle with the latest and greatest in online technology :)

If you are an someAWE.org member you can confirm your participation here: AWEuC-1 or simply go to 

AWEuC-1 on June 17th 2016 at 10am EST

The event will be free (as in beer and in speech), friendly and focused.

Enjoy!
/cb

PS: I am using a bunch of new tools to set this up - please be lenient towards me if I mess things up a little - I usually get it right at the second try :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19994 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

I put again the links for Moore's Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor (CSR) : https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Moore_EternalFlight.pdf and http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20160001625.pdf .  Within the last  see p. 17: on the table the Specific Power (watts/Ibf) is mentioned as 4.07 with 70 ft diameter, until 3.08 with 800 ft diameter. So in spite of the implementation of rigid wings (with advantages of high L/D ratio, reliability of control, higher lifetime, less maintenance) there is no penality of weight by upscaling. This  interesting characteristic is due in the novel combination of features of this HALE UAV: rotor-wings are in the end of tethers, so their traversed disk area is larger; rotor-wings extend tethers, avoiding a high bending moment; rotor-wings have also means of piloting. The only thing to wish is the realization of prototypes then commercial realizations on the basis of existing studies.


Another interesting feature is that this HALE UAV looks like an AWES with its wings and tethers. It is the first aerodyne planned with AWE culture.


As AWES  some configurations optimizing centrifugal and wind forces could be studied. In one configuration the central hub would be the ground station. 


PierreB  
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19995 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
PierreB, the p.17 of either document, for me, does not seem to relate to your text. Please confirm pointedly the document and the headline of the page; thanks for this extra help.  Maybe a screen print of the intended page?

Also, please clarify the very strong statement about the first aerodyne planned with AWE culture. My first wince was disbelief, so I want to carefully understand just what you mean by "It is the first aerodyne planned with AWE culture."       For that claim, what do you mean by "aerodyne" and what do you mean by "planned" ?  Upon receiving your clarification, then maybe I and others could assent to your assertion or counter the assertion with examples.   

Best,
 JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19996 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

JoeF,

 

p.17 (p. 78 with the Adobe holder) of "Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

NIA Task Order Number 6528 Final Report

June 1st, 2015" which is on p. 57 with the Adobe holder.

 

About what I wrote as "It is the first aerodyne planned with AWE culture."       My sentence is clear: Here are some definitions:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aerodyne : Definition of aerodyne:  a heavier-than-air aircraft (as an airplane, helicopter, or glider) — compare aerostat;

planned: as a project, not still with an available prototype. With AWE culture: I indicated the free HALE UAV  looks already like an AWES with its wings and tethers. Now I add that Dr. Mark D. Moore studied HALE UAV with also an idea of it as an AWES. So he studied a new sort of aerodyne with AWE culture. In all other examples of AWES the aerodyne (plane, helicopter, RAM paraglider...,) or the aerostat (excepted perhaps for Altaeros but only due to its shape) had their own existence far before an adaptation as AWES, or even as tethered aerodyne (kite).

 

PierreB

 

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19997 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Thank you, Pierre. The paging assist works. Good. 
=====================================. 

And thanks for the careful clarification on the claim matter. 
Helpful.  That will provide a foundation for critical examination of the "first" claim. 

At the moment, there still are several fuzzy edges to the scene for me; I am working over the claim as I still suspend belief or assent to that claim.  Involved in the scene are some assumptions about what is an AWES. And "first" invites establishing a date for the claim.   I am aiming still to wrestle more on what the qualification "with AWE culture" will do over other potentially competing aerodynes that may have been planned "with AWE culture."  And the dates of the planning for the potentially competing aerodynes will need to be determined to compare with the date for whatever "planned" aerodyne is settled in the claim you have announced.

A collection of historical aerodynes planned with AWE culture would seem to be a preliminary for seeing if the proposed "first" will stick. Accurate dating of the planning would seem to be key in the decision making. Each such planned aerodyne would have attached its peculiar "AWE culture."   As AWE culture is ancient, there may be much digging to do to uncover the various aerodynes that were planned in all those centuries with the associated AWE culture.    The fuzziness of what is AWE may be challenging to some who live in our contemporary AWE culture. 

In all, a daunting task, but appears to be a special adventure.   I have no feeling yet to assent to the subject claim of "first."  And such type of claim seems important enough to win careful scrutiny. Community consensus of some sort would seem to be invited; I estimate we are at a very preliminary stage of process toward confirming such a claim as was made.  "First" means that some other scene was not with a prior on the same claim.  

To start, is there a specific date that fits the planned aerodyne in your focus?  Who planned it when?    

Best, 
 JoeF
  
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19998 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/25/2016
Subject: AWE Culture ? What is it?

What is "AWE culture" ?

===========================================

AWE :: Airborne Wind Energy  :: What is airborne wind energy? 

culture :: ?  

===========================================

Anyone?

I continue to work on my take on what might be "AWE culture" and will post something in this topic thread. Others are invited to post their understanding on what might be "AWE culture".    


Is having an understanding of "AWE culture" important?    It might not have importance to some; maybe having an understanding is important. 

============================================
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19999 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

About HALE UAV CSR I mention on my posts on this topic.

 

JoeF asks :"Who planned it when?".  

 

Dr. Mark D. Moore (it is not the first time on the present topic his name is mentioned as PI for his CSR) in 2013 for his CSR as HALE UAV.

 

Dr. Mark D. Moore was awarded by NIAC 2013 http://www.nasa.gov/content/niac-2013-phase-i-and-phase-ii-selections for his planned aerodyne (my terms) (HALE UAV CSR). Details are on

http://www.nasa.gov/content/eternal-flight-as-the-solution-for-x/ comprising in first his Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor.

 

Hoping these precisions and links will cut the the following strong and wrong statement and other statements covering it on https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AirborneWindEnergy/conversations/messages/19948 where DaveS wrongly wrote: "

Note that Mark Moore is not in fact leading a NASA CSR team, but is an advocate of the work. Todd Hodges is the principal investigator."
 

Congratulations to Dr. Mark D. Moore for this design, which is, in my opinion, as HALE UAV, the first planned aerodyne by AWE culture, as it contains both wings and tethers, as his study is made during important current R&D in AWE including the realization of prototypes.

 

AWE culture exists for only a few decades while that of aerodynes has thousand years by counting kites.

 

Airborne Wind Energy (AWE) designs a field of flying objects harnessing high altitude winds for energy conversion, generally with the aim of production of electricity.

 

PierreB

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 




 

 

 

 

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20000 From: dave santos Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
MarkM has made a fine contribution to CSR HALE study, but lets also be careful to honor Billy Roeseler's CSR HALE vision in the 70s, which was well explored on the AWES Forum around 2009, with Billy himself in contact. He's also arguably the key inventor of kitesurfing, with his son Corey. These are "KiteGods".

So where is Billy's Boeing CSR HALE tech report that we saw back then? I looked at Wayne and Joe's bibliographies, but did not see the link or citation to follow...


On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 6:52 AM, "Pierre BENHAIEM pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
About HALE UAV CSR I mention on my posts on this topic.
 
JoeF asks :"Who planned it when?".  
 
Dr. Mark D. Moore (it is not the first time on the present topic his name is mentioned as PI for his CSR) in 2013 for his CSR as HALE UAV.
 
Dr. Mark D. Moore was awarded by NIAC 2013 http://www.nasa.gov/content/niac-2013-phase-i-and-phase-ii-selections for his planned aerodyne (my terms) (HALE UAV CSR). Details are on
http://www.nasa.gov/content/eternal-flight-as-the-solution-for-x/ comprising in first his Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor.
 
Hoping these precisions and links will cut the the following strong and wrong statement and other statements covering it on https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AirborneWindEnergy/conversations/messages/19948 where DaveS wrongly wrote: "
Note that Mark Moore is not in fact leading a NASA CSR team, but is an advocate of the work. Todd Hodges is the principal investigator."
 
Congratulations to Dr. Mark D. Moore for this design, which is, in my opinion, as HALE UAV, the first planned aerodyne by AWE culture, as it contains both wings and tethers, as his study is made during important current R&D in AWE including the realization of prototypes.
 
AWE culture exists for only a few decades while that of aerodynes has thousand years by counting kites.
 
Airborne Wind Energy (AWE) designs a field of flying objects harnessing high altitude winds for energy conversion, generally with the aim of production of electricity.
 
PierreB
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



 
 
 
 
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20001 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
How are we to understand "PI" on the following two pages:
http://www.energykitesystems.net/CentrifugalStabilizedRotors/PIclarifyingForWhat.png

 

 

The two pages has Todd Hodges as "PI"  [Principal Investigator]
and one of the pages has Mark Moore as "Task Monitor". 

2013 notice: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
July 19, 2013  NIAC 2013 Phase I and Phase II Selections
Moore, Mark
Eternal Flight as the Solution for 'X'
NASA Langley Research Center
Hampton, VA 23681-2100
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
It could be enlightening to some readers how titles of PI and monitor are employed surrounding investigations that are funded by NIAC.    

The following are invited to clarify matters. Perhaps there is some document that explains such title matters. 
Todd?
Mark?
NIAC?


==================
So, some funding was given to Mark Moore for 
"An investigation into a new mission concept approach to achieve unlimited high altitude long endurance flight to achieve geosynchronous atmospheric satellites for civil missions."    
And so, how are we to understand "task monitor" for Mark Moore and "PI" for Todd Hodges?

In a different topic started yesterday, the question of "AWE culture" will be given pointed attention. There are distinct perspectives. Pierre seems to opine to restrict AWE culture to only a "few decades" while others see AWE culture as spanning centuries and even millennia; the topic could be fun.  Of course, "first" for something may well depend on how restrictive one is on time periods of activity. 

Similarly for "AWE" there are differences of perspectives. Just what is AWE? The variety of perspectives probably become tools for particular persons or teams of workers/investigators/developers/scientists. Within AWE certain things may occur; that some particular thing occurs does not mean that other things do not occur.  A pointed topic on "What is AWE?" could face the question. 

Aerodynes employing centrifugally stiffened rotors have been extant far before 2013. So, it may be fun to clarify just what Pierre is claiming as "first" for planned aerodyne with AWE culture.  Any fresh tweak of a mechanical principle forms a fresh ornamental object, but such does not remove a potential fact that the mechanical principle may have been evident in former objects.  A new application for a  known mechanical principle may provide fresh projects of various sophistication. New missions using extant mechanical knowns is exciting. 

Two different prepositions have been used in the claim for a first:  "with AWE culture"  and
"by AWE culture".      Paul MacCready was part of AWE culture and he planned an aerodyne way before 2013. So, I am puzzled with this the "first" claim that Pierre places over the planned CSR object.  Woglom planned an aerodyne over a century ago and he was part of his age's AWE culture.  It does not seem the CSR object that is monitored by Mark Moore is first CSR aerodyne and also not first planned aerodyne with or by AWE culture, as prior planned aerodynes with or by AWE culture seem to be historical facts.   This subtracts nothing of the excitement that may be operating for the Eternal Flight mission for a sophisticated CSR object; the mission is fresh and important and being given high-level attention.   First for specific mission does not win first for a generality of "planned aerodyne with (or by) AWE culture."   The generality may bite too large, as counterexamples are  going to be too easy.   Of course, consensus may or may arrive on such questions. 

JoeF 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20002 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
DaveS, 
Do these two items suffice? 
One in 1965. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20003 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20004 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Toward the question of "aeodyne planned with (or by) AWE culture"
Doug Selsam inputs a note: 

""I'd say "Laddermill" is an AWE aerodyne concept.  I've designed and patented many other AWE aerodyne concepts, as have many other people." "  ~ Doug Selsam


=========Doug was part of AWE culture in the 1970s when he planned an aerodyne ====================================================
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20005 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Yo-yo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

v

The wings are centrifugally stiffened in various ways during various tricks. The tether rotor in some tricks is stiffened by centrifugal force.   Ancient.  The aerodyne involved may have been planned by those in a particular AWE culture of their ages. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20006 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Per the mention by DaveS about bullroarers:




Ancient aerodyne planned by some with their age's AWE culture ...
Tumbling wing centrifugally stiffened:  a rotor converting apparent wind energy to other forms of energy ... : bullroarer.

Some bullroarer videos:


Bull roarer | JOTA-JOTI

 

Bullroarer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Tumbling wing bullroarer ... 
aerodyne
planned in various AWE cultures of various ages  ...
Wing is centrifugally stiffened spanwise during the powered rotations. 
Apparent wind is converted to other energy formats. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20007 From: santos137@yahoo.com Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

No. We are looking for a years later Boeing internal report that Billy I think shared but I dont recall if attch or linked


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE device


------ Original message------

From: joefaust333@gmail.com [Airborn...

Date: Tue, Apr 26, 2016 10:26 AM

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com;

Subject:[AWES] Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor


 

DaveS, 
Do these two items suffice? 
One in 1965. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20008 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: AWE Culture ? What is it?
AWE culture?   AWE?
Evolution of AWE culture over the ages?  Ancient AWE culture? 1800s AWE culture?  1900s AWE culture? Gradually the foci within various ages of AWE culture seems to increase; our present year 2016 now has hundreds of foci over AWES at many scales. There seems to be a cumulative richness of applications and devices that come under the umbrella of AWE.
What distinguishes activity in the AWE culture from non-AWE culture? May be find rich aspects? Some propose "conversion of wind energy to other forms of energy for the purpose of lowering human and animal and plant misery or enabling good works to be accomplished or to lower dependence on other energy sources".
Vulgar AWE?  Is an unsophisticated AWES effort discounted as not belonging to the AWE culture? Does high status, big money, deep sophistication only win membership in AWE culture?
Contemporary AWE at all scales?
Does sophistication spectrum allow large community?  Low sophistication?  High sophistication?
Does impressive size of mission win membership over easy low-impress missions?
Does membership in some age's AWE culture require members to have a certain gender, race, citizenship, economic status, social status, scientific status, academic status, religion, notice, ...?   
Does putting kite systems to work qualify for action within AWE culture?

In one age in one geographical area, the foci of a local AWE culture may very well not match the foci of an AWE culture in another locality at some age.  The AWES of the 1800s in the USA different somewhat from the AWES of the 1800s in Germany. Etc.

Notice that any certain person or team may saturate themselves with a certain perspective of what constitutes AWE and AWE culture; and such teams or centers may or may see beyond their own local AWE; some might even declare that "their" perspective is "the" perspective that should rule the age.  Others might simply choose a corner of a larger AWE culture for their focus and mastery without having their corner of AWE be declared as "the" AWE.    

The media, say air, water, plasma, soup, soil, gravel, things, blood ... for AWES operating wings and tethers allow a wide opportunity for AWE workers, designers, scientists, engineers, and users.   Some corners of AWE culture will focus on air, other corners on water, and others with mixed media in some AWES.

Some perspectives grab what one knows and extrapolates that all AWE culture fit into some narrow stream of operations or applications. Other perspectives allow much broader operations and applications.  

All kite systems  in any media put to work at any scale are potential points of welcome for the AWE community that is abuilding in this AirborneWindEnergy forum.  Such flow forms one sector of a large AWE culture stream from ancient times to today.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20009 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: William G. Roeseler

[ ] We seek early internal Boeing notes, memos, papers, etc. authored by William G. Roeseler   Or Billy Roeseler. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20010 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

What I want to say by writing "aerodyne planned with (or by) AWE culture" is, for Mark's CSR, the conception of both the not AWES HALE UAV CSR (how is the not AWES Ladermill version?) version and the CSRAWES version within our AWE time and culture.

 

PierreB

 

 

 

 

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20011 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Some example: AWES versions of helicopters or planes did not exist when they were put into service for first time. So their conception was made out of AWE culture and time. AWES versions of them were planned far after: Sky Windpower or Makani or others.

In the other hand Dr. Mark D. Moore conceived both AWES and not AWES versions of his HALE UAV CSR, within AWE time and with the new tools of AWE culture.

 

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20012 From: dave santos Date: 4/26/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Pierre,

Please keep in mind, in pure technical terms, traditional kites are WECS; so kite-flying is fundamentally AWE-based. In aviation history both airplane and helicopter evolved from AWE predecessors and the use of tailwinds is a form of AWE which began very soon after aircraft became practical. AWES culture holds. Billy Roeseler in special regard in AWE for developing kitesurfing which displaced powered water-skiing using wind power. Billy is "AWES culture" on many levels, and he developed the CSR HALE AWES concept long before Mark. Give them both credit as part of AWE culture, in balanced fairness

dave


On Tuesday, April 26, 2016 6:07 PM, "Pierre BENHAIEM pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Some example: AWES versions of helicopters or planes did not exist when they were put into service for first time. So their conception was made out of AWE culture and time. AWES versions of them were planned far after: Sky Windpower or Makani or others.
In the other hand Dr. Mark D. Moore conceived both AWES and not AWES versions of his HALE UAV CSR, within AWE time and with the new tools of AWE culture.
 
PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20013 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

DaveS.

 

See on http://www.appropedia.org/Wind_energy_conversion_system : there is no mention of kite as WECS.   

 

PierreB

 

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20014 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

Dr. Mark D. Moore conceived both free HALE UAV CSR version and tethered CSRAWES version. And the free HALE UAV CSR version looks like an AWES with its wings and tethers. It is realized with AWE culture within our AWE time. I do not see similar examples before, comprising examples you give.

 

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20015 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotors in Control-Line Aviation, an arch kit
Preliminaries: 
1. Predating manned aviation:  pole flying. 

2.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_line
http://www.modelaircraft.org/museum/controlline.aspx

3. Kite :: set of wings coupled by tethers in tension in media.  Kite systems (kite) are wind-energy conversion systems. The wind may stand for other media other than air, perhaps water, plasma, soup, mud, gravel, soil, blood, photo stream, ...  Kite systems may even be analyzed by having the tether elements be seen as wings. When there is rotation of a wing or tether (a type of wing) then we have "rotor" element. 

4. Control-line flight systems about a hub are arch kite systems with the control-line tether set forming an arch during operations because of the lift and drag pressures on that tether set (a type of wing complex).  

5. Control-line flight systems have two or more anchors. A simple system has a hub anchor and a tip-of-radial-tether anchor. The anchors (tip of lines or hub) may give opposing resistance through various means; the result is a tensed rotor (the tether set which may be simple line or complex structure, but nevertheless a kind of wing or collection of in-line wings; the tether set is a rotor; that rotor may receive various shapes and structures; that rotor may consist of various objects, say pods, drag lines, noise makers, electricity generators, heat generators, light generators, tumbling wings, streamers, banners, etc., but all such on the coupling tether result in a rotor wing, albeit potentially quite complex.  

6. The resistances given by the far-tip driving anchor and the central hub anchor may arrive through use of fuel, wind deflection, jets, electric propelling engines, etc.   When such as fuel is used or electricity is used to power a propelling device as tip-of-tether anchor driving the tip complex generally circularly about the hub anchor, one may say the system is a powered arch kite system employing centrifugal force to gain a resultant tension between the two arch anchors.    The net tension in the tether set will arrive from the centrifugal force and the wind energy conversion from the lift and drag pressures on the tether complex itself.  When both the tip propelling device and the hub device are driven simply by gravity and wind, even though these are sources of power, then one may refer to the kite system involved as an unpowered kite system. 

7. A control-line arch kite system powered or unpowered may consist of one or several sub-arch-kite arms rotating about a given hub. 

8. A hub may be in free-fall or may be further tethered to ground, ship, buoy, raft, other kite system, aircraft, people, asteroids, moving vehicles. Indeed, the centrifugally stiffened rotor with its terminals as arch-kite anchors may be in free-flight, powered flight, tethered flight, unpowered FFAWE flight. 

9. Complexing the tether rotor:   Practitioners frequently in-line rigid wings to complex the tether rotor; such in-line wing become centrifugally stiffened. Ribbon wing sections may be embedded in-line to complex the tether; swivels may be used in-line.  Rigid tumbling wings may complex the tether between the far driven anchor and the hub anchor. Many other WECs may be formatted in-line to complex the centrifugally stiffened tether rotor to given even more complexing of the tether rotor. 

10. One may accept and even want terrific flutter of the rotor complex. One may aim to control the motions of the parts of the complexed centrifugally stiffened rotor. 

11. Notice that a SLK in natural winds is an instance of control-line aviation with centrifugally-stiffened tether-rotor as asymmetries cause cross-winding and essential rotations about the hub anchor below. The tether rotor stiffens by reason of a combination of centrifugal forces from the driving tip wing and the lift and drag of the tether rotor itself (and itself as wing), upon resistance of the ground hub anchor. 

=========
This topic thread invites furthering the centuries-old control line aviation by furthering tip anchor complexes, rotor-tether complexes, and hub complexes.  This topic thread aims to take the seeds of traditional hobby and traditional engineering control-line aviation and further the development of practical powered and unpowered centrifugally stiffened rotor arch kite systems in order to fulfill practical good works. 
=========

I have what I call a "Together Kite" which has two people cooperate; one person become the powered tip anchor running in circles about the other person who is generally still or may move about.  Between the two persons is a coupling tether-becoming-rotor. The tether rotor is centrifugally stiffened during the operation by the apparent wind on the tether rotor and the centrifugal force that becomes evident in the rotation.   I complex the tether rotor with various wings and sub-kites. The AWES works are several:  exercise, health, companionship, entertainment, sound making, education, energy production, light making ...    The Together Kite has the two persons as wings coupled by a rotor (complex tether set). The hub person resists the tip-driving-wing person; the two persons together help create an apparent wind over the rotor-tether-complex; they realize that ambient wind plays its vectors into the net result.   

==============

Mark Moore's CSR armed powered AWES in its several formats is part of this wider realm of control-line aviation. Welcome to a special sector of kite energy systems, Mark; please report any and all progress. 

===============

==============================
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20016 From: dave santos Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Good-eye, Pierre! Joe is an editor of the root Appropedia page in Wikipedia and can correct the omission of kites as a WECS case. It should be clear that "energy-conversion" in its fullest physical sense is what counts, rather than using the omission to define a wrongful exclusion.

Of course you have not seen the Billy Roeseler AWES HALE CSR Boeing paper, or you would not mistakenly insist on MarkM being the originator of the idea. We have email text by Billy from 2009, where he was clearly referencing his pioneering study of HALE CSR rotors, but the per-Internet Boeing report we shared back then is being searched for. Please be patient before concluding no HALE CSR prior art exists, and respect that both MarkM and Billy are friends of AWE, each due his fair credit.

I especially honor MarkM for leading technical critique of MikeB's flawed AWE analysis (the "Magnificent Seven" PhD response). I have high hopes "young" Mark can someday match or exceed Billy's proven career excellence in AWE conceptual design, and kite practice generally, but patience is clearly needed to see just how he gets there.

daveS



 




On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 7:34 AM, "Pierre BENHAIEM pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Dr. Mark D. Moore conceived both free HALE UAV CSR version and tethered CSRAWES version. And the free HALE UAV CSR version looks like an AWES with its wings and tethers. It is realized with AWE culture within our AWE time. I do not see similar examples before, comprising examples you give.
 
PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20017 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/27/2016
Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
Attachments :
    Thanks, Pierre,
    an edit has been made in that article.
    This is a start. Good eye!
    		   @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20018 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/27/2016
    Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
    Attachments :
      DaveS wrote on the present topic: "Todd Hodges is the principal investigator." Not Billy Roeseler?

      I am happy to know that after JoeF's inclusion my electricity is produced by kite systems.

      PierreB
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20019 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/27/2016
      Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
      "Billy" historically: 
      seminal investigator regarding CSR matters.

      Hodges: 
      Listed by the documents as a PI for a limited contractual investigation of CSR concepts. 

      Regarding your personal Pierre electricity:  rather: Your electricity is potentially generated by kite systems; that is, unless you already are being fed electricity from kite system sourcing. It will be a grand day when one person's whole personal electricity is derived from use of kite systems as source of said electricity. Please report details when such happens within your view. Thanks. 

      ~ JoeF
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20020 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/27/2016
      Subject: Centrifugally stiffened rotors in control-line aviation

      Centrifugally stiffened rotors in control-line aviation

      ============================================


      The rotor is kited via a far tip end powered propulsion unit.  The driven kited rotor sometimes has rigid wings tensed in line with the tether rotor and tether system. The rotor faces an apparent wind made of the artificial wind combined with ambient wind. Such systems are available for tweaking for specific missions in any media in low or high places.  The tether rotor may be formatted to one's pleasure; tumbling wings may be placed in line on the tether rotor; soft or hard wings may be embedded and tensed via the centrifugally stiffened rotor base; humans may be in pods set on the rotor; devices for making noises, forming interesting motions, generating electricity, drying wetness, showing messages, etc. may be placed on the stiffened rotor.  The driven tether set may be made of one or several lines.   In all, the system is a kite system, but a powered kite system anchored by a central hub and far-out anchored by a motorized driving powered anchor.  The powered kite system of subject is a powered arch kite system, as the two anchors (tip and hub) combined with the tether-rotor set results in a arch for the dominant form of the tether-rotor set. 


      Some thinkers are considering using this fundamental kiting art for various missions to do good works; thus this powered kite system using centrifugally stiffened rotors is an AWES whether or not the hub is further tethered to further anchors or not. The hub may integrate one or more branch powered arch kite systems.  When the propulsion device at the far tip of the arch kite branch is powered only by the wind (and thus not by use of fuel or electricity), then the system is a non-powered kite system (though we respect that the wind powers the tip wing); branched dancing kites comes to mind for the strictly wind-powered non-engine format; in such cases the hub may be fixed to earth or other resistive object which object could be a towing device or a free-fall device or another resisting sub-kite system. 


      Introductory video: 

      Introduction to Control Line Flying

      ======================

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19LumXm4z4s  Human hub of powered kiting involving centrifugally stiffened rotors ... 

      ======================

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_line

      ===============================


      This topic thread is dedicated to the branch of AWES that is control-line aviation where the line rotor (perhaps complex with various formats) and its two or more anchors forms a powered or unpowered arch kite system. Power for driving the anchors for the powered versions may come from fuel, electricity, converted solar energy, human muscles, etc.  Power for the unpowered versions would come from the conversion of wind to get rotational deflection to centrifugally tense the perhaps complex tether rotor wing complex. 


      The intent is to advance the seeds of U-control aviation (control-line aviation), advance what may be done at the far anchor, advance what may be done in good works on and in the perhaps complex tether set, and advance FFAWE relative to these seeds that predate manned flight (around the pole flying). 


      K:: {W1, T, W2}    
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20021 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/27/2016
      Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

      Sure, and Wright Brothers invented Boeing 747...

       

      PierreB

       

       
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20022 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/27/2016
      Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
      Wright Brothers may have been seminal investigators of aircraft, but they did not invent Boeing 747.
       Roeseler being a seminal investigator of centrifugally stiffened rotors (CSR) is evident; he did not invent North American X-15. 

       You are a seminal investigator of some AWE matters; that is not equivalent to being an inventor. 
       Centrifugally stiffened rotors (CSR) are ancient technology matters finding ever new missions. 

       The devices that will further use centrifugally stiffened rotors will be have cause to credit various former actors, not all the same. Most every kite system uses centrifugally stiffened rotors (CSR). 

       seminal: (adjective) (of a work, event, moment, or figure) strongly influencing later developments. 

      Both Roeseler and the Wrights strongly influenced later developments. Their works are still strongly influencing developments.

      Hopefully every poster in this forum will obtain the status of being seminal with respect to some aspect of kite systems.  One need not be the inventor of the core matter that is involved to give strong or significant influence for future or following matters.    

      JoeF
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20023 From: dave santos Date: 4/27/2016
      Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
      Pierre,

      Yes, Billy was not the PI of MarkM's HALE CSR study. He was not even noted as a historical reference by MarkM's study. In fact, we knew of Billy and his HALE CSR work before we knew of MarkM, and it ultimately fell to us to connect these two figures. Lets hope Billy is doing well, since we have not heard from him in recent years.

      Here in the US, there is nothing unusual about NASA administrative confusion, like Todd Hodges in error noted as PI on the CSR report you linked. NASA commits even worse publishing errors by overlooking Billy's MIT and Boeing work and other key CSR precedents like Payne* and Diehl. NASA even failed to produce the expected CSR prototype, such that a spinning Russian kid with his homemade CSR wing is apparently ahead in actual experimentation (!) Just watch out when NASA finally awakens to AWE on a grand scale,

      daveS

      Note satellite kiteplanes by Payne in figure 3 from his patent, just like Moritz developed analytically.




      On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 1:38 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
      "Billy" historically: 
      seminal investigator regarding CSR matters.

      Hodges: 
      Listed by the documents as a PI for a limited contractual investigation of CSR concepts. 

      Regarding your personal Pierre electricity:  rather: Your electricity is potentially generated by kite systems; that is, unless you already are being fed electricity from kite system sourcing. It will be a grand day when one person's whole personal electricity is derived from use of kite systems as source of said electricity. Please report details when such happens within your view. Thanks. 

      ~ JoeF
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20024 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/27/2016
      Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor

       

      In response to Pierre's note, Joef wrote: "Wright Brothers may have been seminal investigators of aircraft, but they did not invent Boeing 747.  Roeseler being a seminal investigator of centrifugally stiffened rotors (CSR) is evident; he did not invent North American X-15."


      Pierre notes: Roeseler did not invent Mark's specific HALE UAV CSR with wings-blades containing means of control in their respective tips among other specific features.


      JoeF comments: Any invention in Mark's work would certainly be Mark's.  At no place have I stated over Mark's HALE UAV CSR studies and concepts any invention for Roeseler.  My text simply brings in that Roeseler published CSR matters. I have no idea whether or not Mark studied Roeseler. What would be neat is to laud any progress that Mark may gift the world. 

       
      Pierre comments: I do not see NASA's errors here. If yes, Boeing should indicate Wright Brothers invented the aircraft on their papers. I see errors with statements like DaveS made in "Note that Mark Moore is not in fact leading a NASA CSR team, but is an advocate of the work. Todd Hodges is the principal investigator."

      JoeF comments:   Pierre, NIAC, as posted, in their documents published some that Todd Hodges was PI of some matters on the CSR studies; we await clarification from Todd or Mark on what the Todd "PI" means and what Mark's monitor status means. Maybe NIAC has errors published on titles; maybe not. Was or is Mark "leading" or monitoring?  He definitely seems like he is strongly proposing very close examination of the potentials of the CSR path to Eternal Flight. The Mark, et al, team of investigators over the CSR matters have put on the published table some visions of potential vehicles that interest many; in my scheme, I see powered complex arch kiting in the CSR visions of that team, and so I have an interest. You seem very interested in what the NASA team has envisioned.   Neither Roeseler nor the NASA invented centrifugally stiffened rotor mechanics which have been in public domain; anyone may use such CSR to form new and novel machines or to form improvements over extant machines and operations.    
        
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20025 From: dave santos Date: 4/27/2016
      Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
      Pierre,

      The CSR study error in omitting Billy's contributions to CSR is called an error-of-omission. My error was repeating an apparent fact published on the cover pages of official documents. In both cases, no surprise, the primary error was by US government sources, and the corrections came from open-AWE sources. You knew enough about error-of-omission to correct Wikipedia regarding whether a kite is a WECS, with open-AWE help; and now you know the name for such an error,

      dave

        › a mistake that consists of not doing something you should have done, or not ​including something such as an ​amount or fact that should be ​included: Errors of ​omission are likely to be more common than ​errors of ​commission.

        error of omission Definition in the Cambridge English ...

        dictionary.cambridge.org/.../erro...
        Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary



      On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 9:39 PM, "Pierre BENHAIEM pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
       
      In response to Pierre's note, Joef wrote: "Wright Brothers may have been seminal investigators of aircraft, but they did not invent Boeing 747.  Roeseler being a seminal investigator of centrifugally stiffened rotors (CSR) is evident; he did not invent North American X-15."

      Pierre notes: Roeseler did not invent Mark's specific HALE UAV CSR with wings-blades containing means of control in their respective tips among other specific features.

      JoeF comments: Any invention in Mark's work would certainly be Mark's.  At no place have I stated over Mark's HALE UAV CSR studies and concepts any invention for Roeseler.  My text simply brings in that Roeseler published CSR matters. I have no idea whether or not Mark studied Roeseler. What would be neat is to laud any progress that Mark may gift the world. 
       
      Pierre comments: I do not see NASA's errors here. If yes, Boeing should indicate Wright Brothers invented the aircraft on their papers. I see errors with statements like DaveS made in "Note that Mark Moore is not in fact leading a NASA CSR team, but is an advocate of the work. Todd Hodges is the principal investigator."

      JoeF comments:   Pierre, NIAC, as posted, in their documents published some that Todd Hodges was PI of some matters on the CSR studies; we await clarification from Todd or Mark on what the Todd "PI" means and what Mark's monitor status means. Maybe NIAC has errors published on titles; maybe not. Was or is Mark "leading" or monitoring?  He definitely seems like he is strongly proposing very close examination of the potentials of the CSR path to Eternal Flight. The Mark, et al, team of investigators over the CSR matters have put on the published table some visions of potential vehicles that interest many; in my scheme, I see powered complex arch kiting in the CSR visions of that team, and so I have an interest. You seem very interested in what the NASA team has envisioned.   Neither Roeseler nor the NASA invented centrifugally stiffened rotor mechanics which have been in public domain; anyone may use such CSR to form new and novel machines or to form improvements over extant machines and operations.    
        
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20026 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/28/2016
      Subject: Hertha Marks Ayrton

      Happy Birthday to Herta MarksAyrton


      =========== arcs and ripples in sand and water .......

      Hertha Marks Ayrton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


      Essay: 

      http://cwp.library.ucla.edu/articles/ayrton/Ayrton_ripple/ripple.html
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20027 From: Joe Faust Date: 4/28/2016
      Subject: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
      From: Pierre BENHAIEM <pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20028 From: dave santos Date: 4/28/2016
      Subject: Re: Centrifugally Stiffened Rotor
      Pierre,

      You are right about my error. I believed your source about Todd as PI, and referred to it as if it was true. You are mistaken to belabor minor errors not essential to the topic.

      I made a CSR prototype the other day and dropped it from a tower in glide mode. At least there was no error in the balance and trim...

      dave


      On Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:25 AM, "Joe Faust joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
      From: Pierre BENHAIEM <pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr


      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 20029 From: dave santos Date: 4/28/2016
      Subject: Re: Hertha Marks Ayrton
      Attachments :
        She was quite an interesting person.  The Ayer Flapper Fan involved fairly complex unsteady aerodynamics, exploiting a slapping wing action later identified and studied in insect flight. Description from an educational PDF linked at bottom-

        Ayrton Flapper Fan - 1915 

        Used in WWI 

        Smacked on the ground facing the on-coming gas 

        Cross bar of the handle hit the ground first 

        Blade flattens out, sending a puff of air 

        Ground friction slows the lower part of the air, which became a vortex cylinder 

        Central part of the puff advances faster than the edges, and so a ring is formed revolving on itself. 

        100,000 used


        Inline image



        On Thursday, April 28, 2016 7:05 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
        Happy Birthday to Herta MarksAyrton

        =========== arcs and ripples in sand and water .......

        Essay: 


        		   @@attachment@@