Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 19416 to 19466 Page 282 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19416 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: "SS" usage in context

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19417 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Airborne Rigid Kite With On-Board Power Plant For Ship Propulsion

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19418 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Airborne Rigid Kite With On-Board Power Plant For Ship Propulsio

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19419 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: "SS" usage in context

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19420 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19421 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: "SS" usage in context

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19422 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Google is ramping up hiring for its ambitious plan to make 'energy k

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19423 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19424 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Google is ramping up hiring for its ambitious plan to make 'ener

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19425 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Fw: Hot Single-Skin (SS) Soft-Kites Enter Production

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19426 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Google is ramping up hiring for its ambitious plan to make 'ener

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19427 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19428 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Fw: Hot Single-Skin (SS) Soft-Kites Enter Production

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19429 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Fw: Hot Single-Skin (SS) Soft-Kites Enter Production

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19430 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19431 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Google is ramping up hiring for its ambitious plan to make 'ener

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19432 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19433 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Science Direct

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19434 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: ROTOR KITE WIND ENERGY SYSTEM AND MORE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19435 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19436 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: US2015275861 (A1) - ROTOR KITE WIND ENERGY SYSTEM AND MORE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19437 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Wild 16 by Joby

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19438 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Re: Science Direct

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19439 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Branching Bridles, Spider Bridles, Net Bridles

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19440 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Google to fill the skies with "energy kites"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19441 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Re: ROTOR KITE WIND ENERGY SYSTEM AND MORE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19442 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Kiteboarding on 200m lines in near-zero surface wind

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19443 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Portrait of a Kite God (Bill Hansen)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19444 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Re: Google to fill the skies with "energy kites"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19445 From: dave santos Date: 12/3/2015
Subject: Italian Parliment's AWE "Rizoluzione"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19446 From: dave santos Date: 12/4/2015
Subject: Kite Physics Fundamentals (parametric oscillation)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19447 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/4/2015
Subject: Re: Google to fill the skies with "energy kites"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19448 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/4/2015
Subject: Re: Google to fill the skies with "energy kites"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19449 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: Re: Google to fill the skies with "energy kites"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19450 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: KiteMill presells 5 AWES units

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19451 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: Transitions Robotics- from Joby and Makani to Kitemill

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19452 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: Virginia Tech AWE student video

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19453 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: GreenPeace on AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19454 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: SkyMill in deep stealth mode

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19455 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: Stephan Schnez of ABB Corporate Research to speak on AWE at UFreibur

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19457 From: dave santos Date: 12/6/2015
Subject: Lattice Dynamics of Tensegrity Structure (paper)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19458 From: Joe Faust Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Cartoons: some of energy kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19459 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Thin plates

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19460 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Re: Cartoons: some of energy kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19461 From: dave santos Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Re: Cartoons: some of energy kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19462 From: dave santos Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Airplane/Tether/Drogue Payload Transfer System

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19463 From: dave santos Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Re: Inside Minesto

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19464 From: dave santos Date: 12/10/2015
Subject: Bill Gates again touts "High Wind" [Oct. video interview by The Atla

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19465 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/10/2015
Subject: Long Kite Systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19466 From: dave santos Date: 12/10/2015
Subject: Re: Long Kite Systems



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19416 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: "SS" usage in context
Doug rightly notes that Dave Culp used "SS" in past decades to mean "Speed-Sailing", and that "SS" also can be confused with "Stainless-Steel", in the context of why he required clarification of what "SS" currently means in elite kite design and on the AWES Forum.

Dave Culp, of course, is far better known in AWE as the inventor of the OL SS kite. Those of use who have known Dave Culp for decades have never been confused by the two "SS" usages, since the context was always clear (old speed-sailing vs new kite design). It could easily be confusing to anyone who has not followed these two fields with the experts.

Its been clear to pros in kite design that "SS" usage on the AWES Forum is in the kite design context, but its only natural for novices in kite design to need clarification.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19417 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Airborne Rigid Kite With On-Board Power Plant For Ship Propulsion

(US20150298806) Airborne Rigid Kite With On-Board Power Plant For Ship Propulsion 


https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=US152776428


Google, Inc. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19418 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Airborne Rigid Kite With On-Board Power Plant For Ship Propulsio
Its the most optimistic high-complexity AWES concept yet, that something like the M600 is suited to operate safely and economically from a heaving ship deck. Google already owns the patents to the architecture, so bolting it to a ship seems protected and obvious (if not wise). 

Its axiomatic in ship kite circles that ship operators are extremely adverse to added cost and risk. An AWES adjunct must not be allowed to foul or endanger normal operations [Maersk assessment to KiteShip]. SkySails is a strong COTS competitor in the ship-kite market, and its simpler cheaper AWES already has rated three times more traction power than an M600 could supply, with even more powerful SkySails AWES in the design pipeline. There is no special need for flygens like this patent advocates, when a simple kite can more effectively back-drive electric* ship propulsion, for far higher net electric generation potential. The M600 is already close to theoretic scaling limits of rigid E-VTOL kiteplanes (for useful capacity at most-probable wind-velocities).

There is an interesting twist to the E-VTOL aspect of the patent; to tow a ship by aerial propulsion, which might someday save a drifting ship that a tug cannot rescue in time. There should already be cases where helicopters towed small boats to safety, but an electric heli for routine ship propulsion looks extravagant and marginal.

-----------------
* diesel-electric already common in modern ships



-



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 9:43 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
(US20150298806) Airborne Rigid Kite With On-Board Power Plant For Ship Propulsion 


Google, Inc. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19419 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: "SS" usage in context
The following note is by Doug Selsam:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My points regarding abbreviations and acronyms are as follows:
First, there is actually a protocol for using abbreviations in a written passage.   The rule-of-thumb is, you spell out the whole word or phrase the first time it is used, with the abbreviated version afterward in parenthesis, so anyone reading it can understand what you mean.  After that, it is OK to use just the abbreviation in the rest of the written passage, since it is unmistakably defined at that point. 

We should probably all do that more often, for example, we tend to use AWE without first specifying we mean "Airborne Wind Energy".  Fine for us "insiders", because we're used to it, but for anyone clicking on our messages for the first time, or trying to get up to speed, even a seasoned aerospace engineer, kite-flyer, or wind energy person, may not guess what we mean, and it is no fault of theirs.

They may be highly-skilled or educated, but just not familiar with our insider lingo.  The onus is on us (get it?  Onus?  On us?) to make ourselves understood.  If we are just talking to ourselves, we won't care, but if we're interested in actually communicating, we should keep this in mind.

Anyway, beyond that, I really have to take exception to the ongoing and repetitive badgering of me over my once asking for a clarification of the abbreviation SS, with regard to kites, one time, years ago, as though it is even a valid point upon which to attack me, assuming attacking me is a good use of anyone's time in the first place.

If I google Dave Culp SS, I come up with two returns:
Speedsailing:
http://www.dcss.org/speedsl/
or 
Slingshot (the name of a fast sailboat):
http://www.dcss.org/speedsl/ crossbow.html

If I google Kite SS, I come up with
"Slingshot Sports"
http://www.slingshotsports. com/Kite-Products

If I google Reinhart Paelinck SS, I come up with:
"Stainless Steel spreader bar"
http://www.kite-line.com/land- snow-kiting?cat=35&dir=asc& limit=all&mode=list&order= name&price=-1000

At no point in any of these searches does one find a return mentioning "single skin", "single-surface" or whatever it is daveS insists SS "really" stands for.

So I think you may be a bit over-the-top to still be castigating me over that single request for a clarification, years ago.  To be sure, I DID remember what you meant by SS way back then, as soon as you reminded me, since I do generally read your posts, I had just momentarily forgotten.  That doesn't seem like such a big deal, really, does it?

You've also repeatedly pointed out how I once missed the acronym LE, as meaning "leading edge".  It's obvious, with as many wind turbines as I've produced, that I would at least understand what a "leading edge" is.  Actually, most ANYONE understands the term, which can apply to anything from a step in a stairway, to a propeller, to a wing, or many other things, such as "The leading edge of research".  

The fact is simply that, as many times as I've dealt with the common concept of "leading edge", I had just not been in the habit of using an abbreviation for it.  I mean, I just usually use the whole word.  I guess one could use abbreviations almost exclusively, generating whole pages of acronymsundecipherable to the average reader, but that is obviously a bad idea.

Still, the point I'm trying to make is not so much whether someone happens to remember a given acronym in any given instance, or dares to ask for clarification, but what it says about a person who just can't let go of such a trivial slight (if it even IS a slight), years later, having stored up such instances to use as ammo in an attempt to invalidate that person who merely once asked for a clarification.  I don't really think it is appropriate, so I'm just trying to explain that.

Further, if one HAS to explain stuff like this over and over again for years on end, what does that say about the efficiency of our process?  Is this time well-spent?   It seems that rather than accelerating RAD (another acronym that almost nobody will understand - it is daveS' term that he wishes was really happening: "Rapid Airborne Wind Energy Development" (as though ANYONE would guess THAT meaning for "RAD"), it would seem to be counterproductive, wasting a lot of my time to have to defend myself against it, and the time of all 5 people (my guess of the remaining audience) who bother to take the time to read such a weak and boring "controversy" over inconsequential trivia.  So I say, let's try and watch what trivial nonsense we waste our time on, lest we slow our pace even more.

That is all.  Case dismissed.  Have a day!  :)
~ Doug Selsam
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19420 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics
daveS asked:  "Doug, What exactly did I get wrong here (and why is it important) so I can agree with you?  daveS"

*** Doug replies: You were at first arguing with my assertion that the Wright brothers accomplished their mastery of powered flight without using a bunch of grad students.  You cited competitors Octave Chanute, Langley, and students at a flight school the Wrights founded years later, as somehow qualifying as grad students in the Wrights initial effort in 1902-1903, in an ineffective attempt to negate what I had said.  I'm not sure why that seemed important to you then.  Now you've backed off and admitted I was right all along.  So, in the spirit of a friendly back-and-forth, I said thanks for admitting you were wrong.  I am surprised you ask this, since you were there the whole time.  Nothing that complicated here.  No need to endlessly examine it.  Have a nice day!  :)

=================================
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19421 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: "SS" usage in context
Doug,

In the case of the AWES Forum, its always been intended for expert-level discussion, so its unreasonable to require the experts to treat their common acronyms as if this was a forum for novices. That's not to exclude helpful clarification when asked, as you did in the SS case here. Poor form has clearly been a problem on the AWES Forum mostly in the context of profane abusive language, rather than imagined abuse of established kite acronyms,

daveS



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 1:09 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
The following note is by Doug Selsam:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My points regarding abbreviations and acronyms are as follows:
First, there is actually a protocol for using abbreviations in a written passage.   The rule-of-thumb is, you spell out the whole word or phrase the first time it is used, with the abbreviated version afterward in parenthesis, so anyone reading it can understand what you mean.  After that, it is OK to use just the abbreviation in the rest of the written passage, since it is unmistakably defined at that point. 

We should probably all do that more often, for example, we tend to use AWE without first specifying we mean "Airborne Wind Energy".  Fine for us "insiders", because we're used to it, but for anyone clicking on our messages for the first time, or trying to get up to speed, even a seasoned aerospace engineer, kite-flyer, or wind energy person, may not guess what we mean, and it is no fault of theirs.

They may be highly-skilled or educated, but just not familiar with our insider lingo.  The onus is on us (get it?  Onus?  On us?) to make ourselves understood.  If we are just talking to ourselves, we won't care, but if we're interested in actually communicating, we should keep this in mind.

Anyway, beyond that, I really have to take exception to the ongoing and repetitive badgering of me over my once asking for a clarification of the abbreviation SS, with regard to kites, one time, years ago, as though it is even a valid point upon which to attack me, assuming attacking me is a good use of anyone's time in the first place.

If I google Dave Culp SS, I come up with two returns:
Speedsailing:
http://www.dcss.org/speedsl/
or 
Slingshot (the name of a fast sailboat):
http://www.dcss.org/speedsl/ crossbow.html

If I google Kite SS, I come up with
"Slingshot Sports"
http://www.slingshotsports. com/Kite-Products

If I google Reinhart Paelinck SS, I come up with:
"Stainless Steel spreader bar"
http://www.kite-line.com/land- snow-kiting?cat=35&dir=asc limit=all&mode=listℴ= name&price=-1000

At no point in any of these searches does one find a return mentioning "single skin", "single-surface" or whatever it is daveS insists SS "really" stands for.

So I think you may be a bit over-the-top to still be castigating me over that single request for a clarification, years ago.  To be sure, I DID remember what you meant by SS way back then, as soon as you reminded me, since I do generally read your posts, I had just momentarily forgotten.  That doesn't seem like such a big deal, really, does it?

You've also repeatedly pointed out how I once missed the acronym LE, as meaning "leading edge".  It's obvious, with as many wind turbines as I've produced, that I would at least understand what a "leading edge" is.  Actually, most ANYONE understands the term, which can apply to anything from a step in a stairway, to a propeller, to a wing, or many other things, such as "The leading edge of research".  

The fact is simply that, as many times as I've dealt with the common concept of "leading edge", I had just not been in the habit of using an abbreviation for it.  I mean, I just usually use the whole word.  I guess one could use abbreviations almost exclusively, generating whole pages of acronymsundecipherable to the average reader, but that is obviously a bad idea.

Still, the point I'm trying to make is not so much whether someone happens to remember a given acronym in any given instance, or dares to ask for clarification, but what it says about a person who just can't let go of such a trivial slight (if it even IS a slight), years later, having stored up such instances to use as ammo in an attempt to invalidate that person who merely once asked for a clarification.  I don't really think it is appropriate, so I'm just trying to explain that.

Further, if one HAS to explain stuff like this over and over again for years on end, what does that say about the efficiency of our process?  Is this time well-spent?   It seems that rather than accelerating RAD (another acronym that almost nobody will understand - it is daveS' term that he wishes was really happening: "Rapid Airborne Wind Energy Development" (as though ANYONE would guess THAT meaning for "RAD"), it would seem to be counterproductive, wasting a lot of my time to have to defend myself against it, and the time of all 5 people (my guess of the remaining audience) who bother to take the time to read such a weak and boring "controversy" over inconsequential trivia.  So I say, let's try and watch what trivial nonsense we waste our time on, lest we slow our pace even more.

That is all.  Case dismissed.  Have a day!  :)
~ Doug Selsam
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19422 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Google is ramping up hiring for its ambitious plan to make 'energy k
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19423 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics
Doug,

You may be a bit confused here. I in fact supported your position that the Wrights did not use grad students, for specific reasons I carefully cited. Its important to understand that the Bros did depend on the top aviation academics of their time, and their elite student pilots were comparable in elite status to our best modern grad-student colleagues; key points you overlooked,

daveS





On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 1:18 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
daveS asked:  "Doug, What exactly did I get wrong here (and why is it important) so I can agree with you?  daveS"

*** Doug replies: You were at first arguing with my assertion that the Wright brothers accomplished their mastery of powered flight without using a bunch of grad students.  You cited competitors Octave Chanute, Langley, and students at a flight school the Wrights founded years later, as somehow qualifying as grad students in the Wrights initial effort in 1902-1903, in an ineffective attempt to negate what I had said.  I'm not sure why that seemed important to you then.  Now you've backed off and admitted I was right all along.  So, in the spirit of a friendly back-and-forth, I said thanks for admitting you were wrong.  I am surprised you ask this, since you were there the whole time.  Nothing that complicated here.  No need to endlessly examine it.  Have a nice day!  :)

=================================
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19424 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Google is ramping up hiring for its ambitious plan to make 'ener
For years we've been following the same Makani job posting trends as Jillian D'Onfro, as this has long been the one reliable source of public information. Lets hope Makani answers her follow-up questions.

My take on the latest Makani hiring bump is that its too-little too-late, given historical staffing requirements for commercializing novel aerospace platforms at large scale, where hundreds of engineering hires with budgets in the billions is typical.

Fiasco or triumph, it will be exciting to someday learn all about the current behind-the-scenes drama at Makani, which its open job listings only hint at.



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 2:04 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19425 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Fw: Hot Single-Skin (SS) Soft-Kites Enter Production
An ready example for Doug of SS acronym usage on the AWES Forum to his proposed standard. SS kite design has long been extensively discussed across many expert sources, without undue confusion-

----------------
On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 8:30 PM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com great details-


Navigate the full content of Reinhart's wonderful SS work for lots of good info-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19426 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Google is ramping up hiring for its ambitious plan to make 'ener
Doug Selsam sent in a comment to the editor of energykitesystems' UpperWindpower editor:  
=========================

I wonder if they have any job openings for "expert kite flyers", "kite gods" or just plain ole' "AWE experts"?
No?
Darn!

~ Doug Selsam
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19427 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics
daveS said: "Doug, You may be a bit confused here. I in fact supported your position that the Wrights did not use grad students, for specific reasons I carefully cited. Its important to understand that the Bros did depend on the top aviation academics of their time, and their elite student pilots were comparable in elite status to our best modern grad-student colleagues; key points you overlooked, daveS"

*** Doug replies: No daveS it is YOU who is confused, and there is no reason to be confused.
Octave Chanute and Langley are NOT grad students, and the fact that the Wright brothers later founded a flight school that, of course, had students, learning to fly, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with whether the Wrights used grad students a decade earlier to develop the world's first powered airplane.  
You're trying to change the subject and misapply the word "student" from one decade and one purpose, to another entirely different situation.

And I did not OVERLOOK anything.  You can stop now.  You can stop pretending you have the last word on every topic, on every idea posted by every contributor.  You can stop trying to rewrite history, both regarding the Wright Brothers and regarding what you wrote a few days ago.  You can stop saying other contributors such as myself, and many others, are "confused", have "missed something" and all the other false accusations you so blithely throw around without pausing to realize how agonizingly repetitive and inappropriately haughty it all sounds.
~ Doug Selsam
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19428 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Fw: Hot Single-Skin (SS) Soft-Kites Enter Production
Doug Selsam replies:

Thanks for the nice links.  I note that they use the whole words, "single-skin" and not the abbreviation SS, probably because they are interested in communicating rather than obfuscating.
Do you think single-skin kites will find a use in paragliding, or are they already?

~ Doug Selsam
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19429 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Fw: Hot Single-Skin (SS) Soft-Kites Enter Production
As reported on the AWES Forum, Luc D'armant developed an SS for Ozone PG (and he previously won a Germy for his brilliant HAPA demo).



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 6:28 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Doug Selsam replies:

Thanks for the nice links.  I note that they use the whole words, "single-skin" and not the abbreviation SS, probably because they are interested in communicating rather than obfuscating.
Do you think single-skin kites will find a use in paragliding, or are they already?

~ Doug Selsam
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19430 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics
Doug,

I not only agreed with your grad student point, but pointed out just why the Wrights' elite students did not smile in photos. It was pertinent to point out that while the Wrights did not depend on grad students (smiling or not), they did need aviation academia as such. Of course AWE today does count on a "phalanx of smiling grad students", and we should at least agree that this is great news (?)

One of us is confused, I think,

daveS



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 6:25 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
daveS said: "Doug, You may be a bit confused here. I in fact supported your position that the Wrights did not use grad students, for specific reasons I carefully cited. Its important to understand that the Bros did depend on the top aviation academics of their time, and their elite student pilots were comparable in elite status to our best modern grad-student colleagues; key points you overlooked, daveS"

*** Doug replies: No daveS it is YOU who is confused, and there is no reason to be confused.
Octave Chanute and Langley are NOT grad students, and the fact that the Wright brothers later founded a flight school that, of course, had students, learning to fly, has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with whether the Wrights used grad students a decade earlier to develop the world's first powered airplane.  
You're trying to change the subject and misapply the word "student" from one decade and one purpose, to another entirely different situation.

And I did not OVERLOOK anything.  You can stop now.  You can stop pretending you have the last word on every topic, on every idea posted by every contributor.  You can stop trying to rewrite history, both regarding the Wright Brothers and regarding what you wrote a few days ago.  You can stop saying other contributors such as myself, and many others, are "confused", have "missed something" and all the other false accusations you so blithely throw around without pausing to realize how agonizingly repetitive and inappropriately haughty it all sounds.
~ Doug Selsam
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19431 From: dave santos Date: 12/1/2015
Subject: Re: Google is ramping up hiring for its ambitious plan to make 'ener
In fact Makani has lost its greatest "kite gods", especially CorwinH, but also DonM. Dave Culp, Pete Lynn Jr., and Saul Griffith also are notable kite experts from the early Makani era.

Since the M600 is so far from ordinary traction kite practice, its hard to see how any "kite god" could help now. As professional courtesy we do account Makani's engineers as "AWE experts", but our field is very primitive yet...



On Tuesday, December 1, 2015 6:17 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Doug Selsam sent in a comment to the editor of energykitesystems' UpperWindpower editor:  
=========================

I wonder if they have any job openings for "expert kite flyers", "kite gods" or just plain ole' "AWE experts"?
No?
Darn!

~ Doug Selsam
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19432 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics
daveS said: "Doug, I not only agreed with your grad student point, but pointed out just why the Wrights' elite students did not smile in photos. It was pertinent to point out that while the Wrights did not depend on grad students (smiling or not), they did need aviation academia as such. Of course AWE today does count on a "phalanx of smiling grad students", and we should at least agree that this is great news (?)
One of us is confused, I think,  daveS

*** Doug replies: yeah yeah yeah, if you agreed with my point, why are you still trying to argue about it?  Do you ever get tired of generating such complete nonsense on the internet?  I think you can stop now.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19433 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Science Direct

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032115007005


How is it they still miss meeting up with the best of energy kite systems?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19434 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: ROTOR KITE WIND ENERGY SYSTEM AND MORE

ROTOR KITE WIND ENERGY SYSTEM AND MORE 

Leonid Goldstein

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=2015275861A1&KC=A1&FT=D


Provisional: March 31, 2014

Filed:  2015
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19435 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Re: Visit from Selsam on two topics
Doug,

You were in fact a bit confused on the topic of aviation education, so I persisted explaining. Bottom line, AWE needs its smiling grad students as much as the Wrights needed their non-smiling students. It is hardly "complete nonsense" how essential deep learning is in aviation, from the Wrights to our AWE R&D movement, so when you see "SS kite", for example, it makes sense to you. 

Onward to the next bit of expert knowledge,

daveS



On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 8:06 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
daveS said: "Doug, I not only agreed with your grad student point, but pointed out just why the Wrights' elite students did not smile in photos. It was pertinent to point out that while the Wrights did not depend on grad students (smiling or not), they did need aviation academia as such. Of course AWE today does count on a "phalanx of smiling grad students", and we should at least agree that this is great news (?)
One of us is confused, I think,  daveS

*** Doug replies: yeah yeah yeah, if you agreed with my point, why are you still trying to argue about it?  Do you ever get tired of generating such complete nonsense on the internet?  I think you can stop now.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19436 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: US2015275861 (A1) - ROTOR KITE WIND ENERGY SYSTEM AND MORE

US2015275861 (A1)  -  ROTOR KITE WIND ENERGY SYSTEM AND MORE


Filed: March 24, 2015

Priority date from provisional application: March 31  2014

GOLDSTEIN LEONID [US] +

Application number: US201514666347 20150324 Priority number(s): US201514666347 20150324 ; US201461973214P 20140331 ; US201461975879P 20140406 ; US201461981288P 20140418
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19437 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Wild 16 by Joby

Anyone wish to tether the Joby16 and set it generating electricity?

Joby's wild 16-rotor convertible aircraft for long-range, high-speed, electric VTOL commuting

 ==================================================================



Thanks to Doug Selsam for sending the link to Upperwindpower editorial desk.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19438 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Re: Science Direct
The omission of specific small-ventures and Open-AWE work are just small temporary gaps of these worthy authors that the AWES Forum fills. I was honored to meet and dine with Professor Andrea Papini during my 2011 Italian AWE tour, but we lost contact. Antonello Cherubini has been nicely tracking AWE progress for a few years, especially by his data-metric of published papers*, and his broad surveys of the field well capture the growing engineering-science excitement.

Open AWE is ironically one of the stealthiest players advancing below the Ivory Tower's radar. We are indirectly represented in Fig.3c, since kPower and Joe Hadzicki have contributed key concepts for crosswind trolley AWES. Ironically, NTS, an actual stealth-venture is better known to the authors, but use a track instead of a cableway.

Expect an eventual trend of winning AWES thinking to converge, just as mountain climbers converge to a summit.

---------
* revealing the same exponential "hockey stick curve" as KiteLab/WoW's 2011 plotting of AWES prototype max-power reports. Papers and power are on the same upward leap.



On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 8:51 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  

How is it they still miss meeting up with the best of energy kite systems?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19439 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Branching Bridles, Spider Bridles, Net Bridles

Switch adds a "Spider Bridle" to kites

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19440 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Google to fill the skies with "energy kites"

Now Google Wants to Fill the Skies With 'Energy Kites'

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19441 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Re: ROTOR KITE WIND ENERGY SYSTEM AND MORE
Leo Goldstein is Texas AWE's Mystery Man.  Since moving from California in recent years, he has never been available to meet and talk with folks at kPower and KiteLab-Austin group venues like kFarm, kite-fests, the Gulf Coast, and UT Research Campus. He recently mothballed his AWE blog, but is otherwise known active by the ongoing patent filings.

Leo generally has sound design insights in accord with consensus  AWES best practice (but also has posed some operationally improbable solutions involving multiple aerobatic kites). His aggressive patenting is lately diversifying across a broader range of AWES concepts; this latest patent is a departure from his prior high-speed crosswind-motion concept space [akin to Hadzicki's concept in Lang-2004]. Leo's new design is an interesting pastiche of familiar AWES concepts, like SkyMill and Olsen; with aerostat pilot-lift just as Oberth envisioned fifty years ago. Given kites are so old and well known, virtually all the principles and details Leo includes are well known prior art, but his specific aggregate ensemble seems worthy of design copyright protection.

Leo's crucial engineering challenge may be to focus on a correct down-select*, since multiple AWES schemes are Darwinian competitors in a crowded field. But maybe Leo's primary motive is not R&D per se; just patent-thicket speculation. Either way, its a tough game. If Leo reads this: kPower hopes [you] join kPower at SXSW Interactive, next spring, and also partner and pool your AWE IP with kPower (AWE IP Pool), to share in the R&D tasks and growing pool-license revenue stream.

-----------
* While bad or premature AWES concept down-selects are grave venture risks, eventually most-correct down-selects win the AWE game.

======

Message history for Leo (Cc:ed)- 

On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 8:57 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  

ROTOR KITE WIND ENERGY SYSTEM AND MORE 

Leonid Goldstein

Provisional: March 31, 2014
Filed:  2015
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19442 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Kiteboarding on 200m lines in near-zero surface wind
The Lower Columbia River (WA-OR/USA) continues to excel in technical-kite engineering exploration-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19443 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Portrait of a Kite God (Bill Hansen)
A closer look at Switch Kites' senior designer of the Spider Bridle, Bill Hansen (as covered by JoeF in bridle topic). In this nice video bio Bill has the classic "right stuff", by his long obsessive multi-disciplinary hands-on wind-sport background, and relentless test-test-test AE engineering ethos. 

Part of the volatile nature of AWE progress is the hidden phalanx of kite masters emerging to change wind power. Bill is one of the best, so he's eagerly welcomed to apply his kite design talent to AWE R&D-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19444 From: dave santos Date: 12/2/2015
Subject: Re: Google to fill the skies with "energy kites"
Once again its the media echo-chamber effect in AWE; one dog barks, and others follow. A sub-theme here is gleaning firm technical information from Makani's job listings. Once again, the AWES Forum provided the earliest public discussion of a particular AWE topic, by several years. We have scrutinized these listings over more time, for the most timely and insightful pondering of the few definite clues. Pending M600 all-modes testing is high-drama long-shot on the high-plain of the Big Island. The Net media pack is on the right trail, but still hardly suspect the deep-poop Makani is in.

Google will not likely keep a failing Makani on the books for long. They may already be planning a Makani exit-strategy of a marginal but face-saving all-modes flight demo followed by a quick sell-off of the company to bigger suckers, as was done for previous fizzled Google ventures. Google could also pivot back-to-the-drawing-board, diversifying its R&D into more promising AWES architectures, if they are ever to really to "fill the skies with energy kites".



On Wednesday, December 2, 2015 10:15 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19445 From: dave santos Date: 12/3/2015
Subject: Italian Parliment's AWE "Rizoluzione"
Fresh from the slow-news movement :)

Congratulations to those who made this happen, via the greenie-reformist Five Star Movement-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19446 From: dave santos Date: 12/4/2015
Subject: Kite Physics Fundamentals (parametric oscillation)
"Dancing" kite flight generally, and AWE specifically, is formally modeled as a collection of harmonic oscillators. A basic kite moves within six degrees-of-freedom (pitch, roll, yaw, heave, sway, surge) and each of these dimensions is a harmonic oscillator coupled to the others in complex collective motion powered by wind. An typical "pumping" AWES cyclically taps power from one or more of these fundamental motions.

There are two kinds of sustained harmonic oscillation; driven and parametric. Driven oscillation is simply kicking an oscillator into motion, and continued kicking in fixed-frequency phase-lock, but parametric oscillation is more subtly and flexibly sustained by shifting the moment-of-inertia, modulating frequency in-phase. AWES motions naturally interact parametricly and this a proposed basis of optimal passive-automation. We are slowly mastering the parametrics of our pumping AWES to ultimately harvest power effectively across a broad spectrum of wind and load conditions.

[KiteLab 2007] pioneered single-skin "flip-wings" that self-oscillate by tacking, with very high power-to-weight evident. Anyone who has held a flip-wing in a breeze knows how hard they thrash, but there may be an even more powerful rig; a shunting SS variant. kPower is planning to test shunting SS wings next year, symmetric fore-and-aft, derived from SS PGs and traction kites, only symmetric laterally. Passively-controlled (self-tuning) parametric oscillation will be a key optimization principle-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19447 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/4/2015
Subject: Re: Google to fill the skies with "energy kites"

daveS said: "Once again its the media echo-chamber effect in AWE; one dog barks, and others follow." 

*** Doug replies:  That's the house-to-house chain-reaction dog-barking effect.

The "echo-chamber" effect in AWE that I originally flagged is when you notice post after post in an AWE "forum" is by the same person.  Or occasionally a back and forth between the same two people.  This echo-chamber effect is like two mirrors on opposing walls: it looks like you're seeing a long distance, but then you notice you're just seeing the same redundant image over and over.  Like the opposing mirrors in a laser tube, only a single coherent wavelength is allowed.  All other possible wavelengths, like other points of view in a potential forum, are disallowed or chased away, until only the lone signal intended by the designer remains.


==============
==============
Moderator note:  All barks are invited that respect the Yahoo netiquette policy and forum policy.  Post your energy kite technology discussion notes!
==============
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19448 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/4/2015
Subject: Re: Google to fill the skies with "energy kites"

daveS said: "Once again its the media echo-chamber effect in AWE; one dog barks, and others follow." 

*** Doug replies:  That's the house-to-house chain-reaction dog-barking effect.

The "echo-chamber" effect in AWE that I originally flagged is when you notice post after post in an AWE "forum" is by the same person.  Or occasionally a back and forth between the same two people.  This echo-chamber effect is like two mirrors on opposing walls: it looks like you're seeing a long distance, but then you notice you're just seeing the same redundant image over and over.  Like the opposing mirrors in a laser tube, only a single coherent wavelength is allowed.  All other possible wavelengths, like other points of view in a potential forum, are disallowed or chased away, until only the lone signal intended by the designer remains.


=========================

=========================

Moderator note to all: 

   Every member of this forum is invited to post views while staying within the netiquette involved in Yahoo and group policy.  Everyone's bark is welcome within the ordinary constraints. 

Moderator
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19449 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: Re: Google to fill the skies with "energy kites"
Doug refers to: "The "echo-chamber" effect in AWE that I originally flagged".


Correction: The earliest Forum instance of noting a journalistic "echo-chamber" seems to be mine [Nov. 29, 2011]. I define such an echo-chamber by AWE journalism that gets prolifically reflected (and often garbled) by copy-cat Net media (increasingly by "newsbots").

Doug is first on the Forum to (mis)apply "echo" as repetition by a single person. No matter how often Doug has repeated "All roads lead to the SuperTurbine" on the Forum, that's just not a real echo. "Post after post... by the same person" are also not real echos, especially as the content varies.

----------------------
I am deeply grateful to JoeF for the relentless moderation work required to keep the AWES Forum as factual and constructively on-mission as practical.



On Friday, December 4, 2015 9:44 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  

daveS said: "Once again its the media echo-chamber effect in AWE; one dog barks, and others follow." 

*** Doug replies:  That's the house-to-house chain-reaction dog-barking effect.
The "echo-chamber" effect in AWE that I originally flagged is when you notice post after post in an AWE "forum" is by the same person.  Or occasionally a back and forth between the same two people.  This echo-chamber effect is like two mirrors on opposing walls: it looks like you're seeing a long distance, but then you notice you're just seeing the same redundant image over and over.  Like the opposing mirrors in a laser tube, only a single coherent wavelength is allowed.  All other possible wavelengths, like other points of view in a potential forum, are disallowed or chased away, until only the lone signal intended by the designer remains.

=========================
=========================
Moderator note to all: 
   Every member of this forum is invited to post views while staying within the netiquette involved in Yahoo and group policy.  Everyone's bark is welcome within the ordinary constraints. 
Moderator
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19450 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: KiteMill presells 5 AWES units
The sales agreement calls for the 5 energy kites to be operational in 2017-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19451 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: Transitions Robotics- from Joby and Makani to Kitemill
Where did Joby Energy's prototype-tech end up after the Makani merger? It lives on in an sUAS venture called Transitions Robotics that lately works with KiteMill, as some sort of equity partner. Pranay Sinha and Jeff Gibboney are showing considerable agility in parlaying Joby/Makani's otherwise poorly scalable UAS tech into the viable sUAS market, while gravitating into groundgen AWE. KiteMills muti-copter launch energy-glider concept still faces the same square-cube scaling challenges. Expect more such "transitions" in the AWE game all the way to mega-scale.

Here's how Kitemill's website noted recent co-testing with TR, with visiting-team backgrounds-

"The three that worked together with Kitemill its team at the end of October were Christopher A. Forrette, Jeffrey K. Gibboney and Pranay Sinha. They were the three that established Transition Robotics Inc in 2011. In similarity with Kitemills its team – the members have a long experience and background in airborne energy and aviation in general. Chris grew up with model aircrafts and studied Aeronautical Engineering at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. He was co-founder of Transition Robotics Inc in 2011 and heads the prototyping and flight testing. Jeffrey K. Gibboney took a bachelor degree in Informatics from Pomona College in 2002. He worked for Apple Computer Inc during five years. In 2010 he got his MSME from San Jose State University with emphasis on Mechatronics and Design. From 2008 until 2011 he worked as a mechanical engineer at Joby Energy Inc and as a Ground Station Lead Engineer at Makani Power Inc under the companies collaborating phase. In 2011 he was co-founder of Transition Robotics where he functions as the mechanical and manufacturing engineer. Pranay Sinha got an S.B. in Aerospace Engineering from MIT in 2009 and a MSE from the University in Michigan, Ann Arbor in 2010. He has worked with several projects that range from the design of aerial vehicles towards compressors and underwater ROVs. After being an aerodynamical engineer at Joby Energy Inc and a Lead Engineer for Aerodynamics at Makani Power Inc, in 2010 and 2011, Pranay co-founded Transition Robotics In in 2011. "

Check out the Joby Energy's"JumpShip" sUAS spin-off by TR-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19452 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: Virginia Tech AWE student video
The credits include GreenPeace AWE content to be linked in a separate topic-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19453 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: GreenPeace on AWE
An interesting first-take on AWE by the now fairly mainstream environmental institution-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19454 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: SkyMill in deep stealth mode

We know a lot about the early SkyMill. Now the website reveals very little, except big advances are suggested to be going on behind the curtain, based on the patents. Hoping DaveL and GrantC are well, and still in the R&D mix, and awaiting news-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19455 From: dave santos Date: 12/5/2015
Subject: Stephan Schnez of ABB Corporate Research to speak on AWE at UFreibur
An upcoming event at Moritz's Lab-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19457 From: dave santos Date: 12/6/2015
Subject: Lattice Dynamics of Tensegrity Structure (paper)
Bucky Fuller's Tensegrity was extended to Dr. Rolf Luchsinger et al's Tensairity. Next, Tensairity was in Open AWE, here on the Forum, generalized to sled kites and soft-kite lattices wherever (ram)air compression acts structurally. We draw on tensegrity science to inform our conceptual exploration. 

Here is a good introduction to Tensegrity Lattice Dynamics and Control, for theoretic application toward a potential kite Tensairity Lattice AWES basis. Envision our kite-unit oscillators in as the driver of coherent lattice vibrations (waves) for PTO networks to tap. Especially note the multi-modal statistics, also characteristic of our kite cases-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19458 From: Joe Faust Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Cartoons: some of energy kites
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19459 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Thin plates

Thin plates

Just where and how in energy-kite systems 

thin plates will play will become evident in time. 

Here is a place where notes may explore such.


================================

Start: 

These are the thinnest, strongest plates that can be picked up by hand
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19460 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Re: Cartoons: some of energy kites
Energy-kite ideas arriving to me during meditation over the creative cartoons found:
NOTICE: Please do not post copyrighted cartoons without paying the artists' fees.  We link to the promo versions.

1. http://www.cartoonstock.com/cartoonview.asp?catref=pton370   
My comment: 
== Use energy kites for wireless communications.  Notice that systems may be a visual signal center. Notice that systems may be radio-frequency (RF) transmitter platforms or RF receiver platforms.

== Find ways to use energy kites to practically and safely release wings; the wings may be become gliders or powered aircraft. Ordinarily "breakaway" wings are to be totally avoided; look at the flip side of such and deliberate use energy kite systems to launch things and launch aircraft; release lofted wing systems that will then carry our practical good works. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19461 From: dave santos Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Re: Cartoons: some of energy kites
One of the funniest trees ever, by means of kites; not exactly fictional-





On Monday, December 7, 2015 7:22 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Energy-kite ideas arriving to me during meditation over the creative cartoons found:
NOTICE: Please do not post copyrighted cartoons without paying the artists' fees.  We link to the promo versions.

1. http://www.cartoonstock.com/cartoonview.asp?catref=pton370   
My comment: 
== Use energy kites for wireless communications.  Notice that systems may be a visual signal center. Notice that systems may be radio-frequency (RF) transmitter platforms or RF receiver platforms.

== Find ways to use energy kites to practically and safely release wings; the wings may be become gliders or powered aircraft. Ordinarily "breakaway" wings are to be totally avoided; look at the flip side of such and deliberate use energy kite systems to launch things and launch aircraft; release lofted wing systems that will then carry our practical good works. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19462 From: dave santos Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Airplane/Tether/Drogue Payload Transfer System
An inventive and instructive concept, with close kite analogs, including its MPC basis for trajectory control. Here the sUAS is designated as an MAV, and the specific niche app is recovery of a slower sUAS by a faster "mothership", but the method is far more general in great potential. Good evidence that drogues are cool-

"...the towing vehicle (mothership) enters an orbit designed to cause the towed body (drogue) to execute an orbit of smaller radius and lower speed (less than the nominal speed of the MAV). The MAV then enters the drogue orbit at its nominal airspeed and overtakes the drogue with a relatively low closing speed..."
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19463 From: dave santos Date: 12/7/2015
Subject: Re: Inside Minesto
More good news for submarine energy-kite tech: Major H2020 funding-




On Tuesday, November 24, 2015 7:11 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Minesto enters technology partnership with Schottel Hydro
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19464 From: dave santos Date: 12/10/2015
Subject: Bill Gates again touts "High Wind" [Oct. video interview by The Atla
Its wide open just how Bill will invest in AWE R&D, but he keeps mentioning it. This interview contains a brief single mention at about min 3:50-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19465 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 12/10/2015
Subject: Long Kite Systems

Long Kite Systems

This topic thread invites focus on long kite systems that may be the basis for doing practical works.

Designs, reports, discussions, experiments, challenges, etc. : all invited.


This topic goes beyond "long" in the "high-altitude" sense, but does not exclude such matter.


Also, this topic goes beyond the recreational "long tail" display, but does not exclude such matter. Indeed, explore long tails for practical works.


And this topic goes beyond have a kited wing dragging out across oceans or land one long tether, but does not exclude such systems.  Explore practical uses of long systems in this category.


This topic enfolds long system laundry or auxiliary long constructs when a vision of practical works may accompany the attention.


We have visions already expressed of a long kite system that might be flown to encircle the earth; practical works for such are invited to be expressed.


Recall that a single kite system may have a multitude of tethers, anchors, wings; the count of members may go extremely high. And keep open that any "anchor" may be a "wing" itself. And note that a mix of materials may form any element of a kite system. A kite system may have parts that are also considered payload or instrument. Parts may be alive (virus, bacteria, plant, animal, human). Parts may move in various ways. Recall that a kite balloon is still a kite. See that rigidity of parts may vary over a broad spectrum from limp to brittle.


The practical works of long kite systems may be one or many in various combinations.  Not all parts or works need to be active at any instant of a kite system's operation.    


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 19466 From: dave santos Date: 12/10/2015
Subject: Re: Long Kite Systems
Noting some previous "long" kite systems and antecedent similarity cases, as baselines-

- classic kite meteorology to ~10km high
- world record kite altitude attempts to ~10km high
- modern kite fishing by kontiki to ~1km
- spanning gorges by kite to rig cables to  
Long Kite Systems
This topic thread invites focus on long kite systems that may be the basis for doing practical works.
Designs, reports, discussions, experiments, challenges, etc. : all invited.

This topic goes beyond "long" in the "high-altitude" sense, but does not exclude such matter.

Also, this topic goes beyond the recreational "long tail" display, but does not exclude such matter. Indeed, explore long tails for practical works.

And this topic goes beyond have a kited wing dragging out across oceans or land one long tether, but does not exclude such systems.  Explore practical uses of long systems in this category.

This topic enfolds long system laundry or auxiliary long constructs when a vision of practical works may accompany the attention.

We have visions already expressed of a long kite system that might be flown to encircle the earth; practical works for such are invited to be expressed.

Recall that a single kite system may have a multitude of tethers, anchors, wings; the count of members may go extremely high. And keep open that any "anchor" may be a "wing" itself. And note that a mix of materials may form any element of a kite system. A kite system may have parts that are also considered payload or instrument. Parts may be alive (virus, bacteria, plant, animal, human). Parts may move in various ways. Recall that a kite balloon is still a kite. See that rigidity of parts may vary over a broad spectrum from limp to brittle.

The practical works of long kite systems may be one or many in various combinations.  Not all parts or works need to be active at any instant of a kite system's operation.