Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 18806 to 18855 Page 270 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18806 From: Joe Faust Date: 8/24/2015
Subject: Fwd: New Rescue Kite Kickstarter

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18807 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18808 From: dougselsam Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18809 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Altitude Attempting

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18810 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Damp those spinners with generators!

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18811 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Re: Damp those spinners with generators!

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18812 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18813 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18814 From: dougselsam Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18815 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18816 From: dougselsam Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18817 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18818 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18819 From: Rod Read Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18820 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: WSIKF2015 Wrap-Up

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18821 From: Rod Read Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: WSIKF2015 Wrap-Up [1 Attachment]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18822 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18823 From: Rod Read Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18824 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18825 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18826 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18827 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: NASA systems-engineering handbook on decision-analysis

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18828 From: dougselsam Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18829 From: Rod Read Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18830 From: Hardensoft International Limited Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18831 From: Rod Read Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18832 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: "Goliath" project , towards LLJs: step 1. building.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18833 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Re: Damp those spinners with generators!

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18834 From: dougselsam Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18835 From: dougselsam Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18836 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Re: Damp those spinners with generators!

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18837 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Pulsing-Tether PTO AWES Arts (short pulse/high-frequency vibrations)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18838 From: dave santos Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18839 From: dave santos Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18840 From: dave santos Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18841 From: dave santos Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Who is deciding AWEC2016 issues?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18842 From: dave santos Date: 8/27/2015
Subject: Overview of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries America (MHIA)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18843 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Fw: Fwd: Airborne Wind Energy | Call for Book Chapters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18844 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18845 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Who is deciding AWEC2016 issues?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18846 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18847 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18848 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18849 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18850 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18851 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Pulsing-Tether PTO AWES Arts (short pulse/high-frequency vibrati

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18852 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18853 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18854 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18855 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2015
Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18806 From: Joe Faust Date: 8/24/2015
Subject: Fwd: New Rescue Kite Kickstarter
Hi Joe,

I just launched a new Kickstarter for a rescue kite system. 


Hope your summer is going well.

thanks,

Dan Tracy
Pacific Sky Power
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18807 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18808 From: dougselsam Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?
I had reps from Oman come over here and invite me to relocate there, a few years ago.  They were pretty nice people, from India - they told me people from India really run Oman because imported workers are preferred, even for administrative duties.

This Altaeros press-release said:
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18809 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Altitude Attempting

Kite altitude record attempt by Jesse Gersenson
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18810 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Damp those spinners with generators!

Damp those spinners with generators and send some good electricity home!

Flying Toys Kitebird UFO Kite
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18811 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Re: Damp those spinners with generators!
Big Rotor Kite (by Rudiger Groning, Inventor of the Magic Wing Kite)

 Damp those spinners with generators and send some electricity home.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18812 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/25/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

BAT on this is one of five:


Top 5 Inventions changing the world ▶2

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18813 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects
Below is a list of USWindLabs' investment prospects Doug has introduced on the AWES Forum along with his oft-repeated claim that "All roads lead to the SuperTurbine (R)". These posts seemingly amount to Doug's own "predictive statements regarding future actions, that, if you check back later, never actually take place, as opposed to reporting real NEWS that HAS happened, or actually IS happening."*
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18814 From: dougselsam Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?
Hats-off to this team for trying, and nice to win recognition,
but the statements in this video do not ring true, to my ears anyway. 
I would not think it would be a good choice for disaster sites, for example,
since one could bring in many many many diesel or gasoline generators, and plenty of fuel, in a similar sized container, probably for less money and way more power--wind or no wind. 

Since when can a disaster site be counted on to have a good wind resource? 
Imagine some people dragging out injured people and treating them, while such a stunt is carried out by a team of people who could otherwise be helping with the injured, to bring a slight chance of making equivalent power of a small generator, but only if it gets windy, just not TOO windy, since we don't want to challenge the integrity of that envelope. 

The video shows a regular megaWatt wind turbine then says the BAT makes more power.  You'd have to read between the lines and know all about wind energy to understand by what stretch of language and reasoning they could even say that.  I guess that part of the message targets the uninformed who just believe whatever is presented without questioning it.  Later if asked, they might say this BAT makes more power than a windfarm turbine. 

There seems always to be this vibe of stepping over the line of hype versus facts with these guys.  Is this old footage?   Still talking about Alaska - What's the latest on that "story"?  A ready product, a "perfect" remote location, so now what?  Years later, they seem reluctant to admit the "Alaska thing" never happened.

Then, of course, the promoters have to cross it up with "internet access" etc., but I see all that as the typical last gasp of trying to change the subject - dodge the actual issue of whether it is an economical power solution.  Any wind energy project could easily add wifi as an extra feature.  Wifi doesn't require a BAT.  A small regular blimp could provide similar wifi access more efficiently, I would think.  This is the typical dynamic I've become used to seeing - a large complicated machine supposedly designed to do one thing, and just when you are ready to ask exactly how WELL it does this one thing, the subject is quickly changed: "Well surprise surprise, it also COULD do this OTHER thing..." What about aerial photography?  What about dropping notes?  Delivering packages?  Sightseeing?  Is there any limit?  Seems like the idea of just making power is already falling by the wayside of even the hype at this point.  Maybe they should just concentrate on wifi for remote areas and forget about the wind energy part.  After all, solar is getting so cheap these days...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18815 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?
Doug,

The obvious news here is two more major investment partners for Altaeros, as covered by the major Omani newspaper. Your concerns over whether this is real news seem strange in the context of Altaeros having emerged fairly recently and generated major public buzz, while there has been no news of your own venture for years now.

Please provide any news to the current USWindLabs Forum news topic that show your own predictive claims in AWE to be sounder than what Altaeros' ever claimed,

daveS



On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 1:45 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Hats-off to this team for trying, and nice to win recognition,
but the statements in this video do not ring true, to my ears anyway. 
I would not think it would be a good choice for disaster sites, for example,
since one could bring in many many many diesel or gasoline generators, and plenty of fuel, in a similar sized container, probably for less money and way more power--wind or no wind. 

Since when can a disaster site be counted on to have a good wind resource? 
Imagine some people dragging out injured people and treating them, while such a stunt is carried out by a team of people who could otherwise be helping with the injured, to bring a slight chance of making equivalent power of a small generator, but only if it gets windy, just not TOO windy, since we don't want to challenge the integrity of that envelope. 

The video shows a regular megaWatt wind turbine then says the BAT makes more power.  You'd have to read between the lines and know all about wind energy to understand by what stretch of language and reasoning they could even say that.  I guess that part of the message targets the uninformed who just believe whatever is presented without questioning it.  Later if asked, they might say this BAT makes more power than a windfarm turbine. 

There seems always to be this vibe of stepping over the line of hype versus facts with these guys.  Is this old footage?   Still talking about Alaska - What's the latest on that "story"?  A ready product, a "perfect" remote location, so now what?  Years later, they seem reluctant to admit the "Alaska thing" never happened.

Then, of course, the promoters have to cross it up with "internet access" etc., but I see all that as the typical last gasp of trying to change the subject - dodge the actual issue of whether it is an economical power solution.  Any wind energy project could easily add wifi as an extra feature.  Wifi doesn't require a BAT.  A small regular blimp could provide similar wifi access more efficiently, I would think.  This is the typical dynamic I've become used to seeing - a large complicated machine supposedly designed to do one thing, and just when you are ready to ask exactly how WELL it does this one thing, the subject is quickly changed: "Well surprise surprise, it also COULD do this OTHER thing..." What about aerial photography?  What about dropping notes?  Delivering packages?  Sightseeing?  Is there any limit?  Seems like the idea of just making power is already falling by the wayside of even the hype at this point.  Maybe they should just concentrate on wifi for remote areas and forget about the wind energy part.  After all, solar is getting so cheap these days...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18816 From: dougselsam Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects
I believe that the message* I'm responding to was false on every count. 
I've never said I had any investors, but I will say right now, I have. 
Unlike most of the projects you read about here, my investors have been paid back with the promised return on their investment.  They made money.  No, I never said Eric Schmidt was investing in my projects - that seems like another daveS "straw-man argument" to me.  In fact I've reported that meeting Mr. Schmidt did not help my situation.  So that was more misinformation.  I've never even implied T-bone Hiccups invested in my projects either.  Another non-factual statement.  I never reported a "negotiation" with General Electric, although personnel from GE Wind were the first to independently test a SuperTurbine(R) a few miles from GE Wind headquarters in Tehachapi, and some of the highest-ranked people from GE Wind have more recently played a role in a concept paper to the highest funding sources.  So that was one MORE false statement.  The Sultanate of Oman has nice people and you've never seen anything like their stationery - the printing is in real gold, but I'm not seeing the specific point of daveS's accusatory diatribe regarding my visit by them.  I don't issue false press-releases.   I do not announce specific projects, for specific times and specific places, that turn out not to be true.  The person who posted the message I'm replying to cannot make the same claim, nor can the other projects to which he refers.  So that was another false accusation.  And one more false or highly-questionable statement cites "Altaeros' Alaska delays".  Unless the person making that accusation can provide any factual information of an actual delay, I would ask them to retract that statement.  It would be interesting if that person's life depended on the truth of their statements.  They would be really sweating it out by now, eh?
~ Doug Selsam

* ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Below is a list   ... [[See prior post for message.]]
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18817 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects
So there is still no news to report from USWindLabs?

No news about investors or any technical progress?

Only a pattern of complaints about players who do make news?





On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:04 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
I believe that the message* I'm responding to was false on every count. 
I've never said I had any investors, but I will say right now, I have. 
Unlike most of the projects you read about here, my investors have been paid back with the promised return on their investment.  They made money.  No, I never said Eric Schmidt was investing in my projects - that seems like another daveS "straw-man argument" to me.  In fact I've reported that meeting Mr. Schmidt did not help my situation.  So that was more misinformation.  I've never even implied T-bone Hiccups invested in my projects either.  Another non-factual statement.  I never reported a "negotiation" with General Electric, although personnel from GE Wind were the first to independently test a SuperTurbine(R) a few miles from GE Wind headquarters in Tehachapi, and some of the highest-ranked people from GE Wind have more recently played a role in a concept paper to the highest funding sources.  So that was one MORE false statement.  The Sultanate of Oman has nice people and you've never seen anything like their stationery - the printing is in real gold, but I'm not seeing the specific point of daveS's accusatory diatribe regarding my visit by them.  I don't issue false press-releases.   I do not announce specific projects, for specific times and specific places, that turn out not to be true.  The person who posted the message I'm replying to cannot make the same claim, nor can the other projects to which he refers.  So that was another false accusation.  And one more false or highly-questionable statement cites "Altaeros' Alaska delays".  Unless the person making that accusation can provide any factual information of an actual delay, I would ask them to retract that statement.  It would be interesting if that person's life depended on the truth of their statements.  They would be really sweating it out by now, eh?
~ Doug Selsam

* ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Below is a list   ... [[See prior post for message.]]
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18818 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects
Note that "Investment Prospect" does not imply that the prospects have invested, only that they could invest if they so chose.

My apologies if USWindLabs only made connections with major investors as non-prospects, if that was Doug's honest intent.

The predictive part cited was, "All roads lead to the SuperTurbine (R)", in the context of a lack of technical news from USWindLabs about the long-standing prediction.

Delays are in fact common to AWE R&D, but USWindLabs seems to be the most delayed of any current player to show progress.



On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:18 PM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com  
I believe that the message* I'm responding to was false on every count. 
I've never said I had any investors, but I will say right now, I have. 
Unlike most of the projects you read about here, my investors have been paid back with the promised return on their investment.  They made money.  No, I never said Eric Schmidt was investing in my projects - that seems like another daveS "straw-man argument" to me.  In fact I've reported that meeting Mr. Schmidt did not help my situation.  So that was more misinformation.  I've never even implied T-bone Hiccups invested in my projects either.  Another non-factual statement.  I never reported a "negotiation" with General Electric, although personnel from GE Wind were the first to independently test a SuperTurbine(R) a few miles from GE Wind headquarters in Tehachapi, and some of the highest-ranked people from GE Wind have more recently played a role in a concept paper to the highest funding sources.  So that was one MORE false statement.  The Sultanate of Oman has nice people and you've never seen anything like their stationery - the printing is in real gold, but I'm not seeing the specific point of daveS's accusatory diatribe regarding my visit by them.  I don't issue false press-releases.   I do not announce specific projects, for specific times and specific places, that turn out not to be true.  The person who posted the message I'm replying to cannot make the same claim, nor can the other projects to which he refers.  So that was another false accusation.  And one more false or highly-questionable statement cites "Altaeros' Alaska delays".  Unless the person making that accusation can provide any factual information of an actual delay, I would ask them to retract that statement.  It would be interesting if that person's life depended on the truth of their statements.  They would be really sweating it out by now, eh?
~ Doug Selsam

* ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Below is a list   ... [[See prior post for message.]]
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18819 From: Rod Read Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

Doug S is probably answering useful questions like... What is the speed limit of a radial rigid ring wing set? How high, wide, cooperatively etc can they stack and interoperate?
I know that I can do him some good drawings if he wants them.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18820 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
Subject: WSIKF2015 Wrap-Up
Attachments :
    It was a great festival, with no break in the wind all week. Immediately evident trends included an increase in muti-kite and kite-rotor designs, a reduction in very large kites, and brighter sharper colors and stock designs. I got to meet with Robert Brasington and Dave Gomberg to discuss AWE developments. KiteSat flew for hours-at-a-time, impressing the US West-Coast Cascadia-Region Red Cross delegation, who recruited me to serve on a tech committee. This could be an entry for emerging kite apps to percolate across the entire Red Cross field program. The sky was too crowded to do big kPower demos like Mothra (which flew in squally WSIKF crowd-suppressing weather two years ago), so a backlog of experiments is ready for the post-festival conditions.

    One trend evident was how Joe Hadzicki's Rev kites continue to build a large cult following as state-of-the-art precision quad-line sport kites. A new style of complex group flying has in recent years evolved from the kites' special capabilities, where large groups fly coordinated dance patterns and pictures in the sky. Yesterday I witnessed a master rev flyer coordinating his group of nine kiters, who had never before flown together.  All he had to do was call-out in special Rev command language where each kite had a number, and various combinations of numbers, control terms, and descriptors sufficed for the group to create a narrative sky-show. Terms like "radar sweep", "burst", "pez" and so on, directed complex individual maneuvers creating coherent flocking displays. The caller could request "make a smiley face', "make it frown", "make a car", "open the trunk", mixed with numbers and specialized jargon for conducting abstract pattern transitions.

    In a similar way, a lot of our AWES explorations drive new kite language (mixed with old). Creating new language is a natural part of inventing and sharing the future. There are dozens of new terms-of-art we have created or adopted here on the AWES Forum, quite a few now standard across the global AWE community. Rev Quad-head language terms and usages so evident at WSIKF2015 can inspire us to go even further in defining useful AWE nomenclature. Words and pictures (like attached jpg) still fall short of the wonderful feelings flying at modern kite festivals create.
    		   @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18821 From: Rod Read Date: 8/26/2015
    Subject: Re: WSIKF2015 Wrap-Up [1 Attachment]

    You legend! That sounds amazing! Well done on the red cross work and I'm sure the revs would kixelate a mothra perfectly well. Lets buy 10,000 to start!

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18822 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
    Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?
    Rod,

    We should carefully and fairly distinguish between designs that owe more to Rudy Harburg and the SuperTurbine. The key difference is the ST's dependence on a central rigid drive shaft, which seems to be Doug's unique innovation the AWES concept space.

    Please consider reaching out to RudyH, based on his key prior art involving torque-ladders, fabric sails, and no central drive-shaft, which matches your hard work far more closely than Doug's follow-on scheme,

    daveS



    On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 3:05 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Doug S is probably answering useful questions like... What is the speed limit of a radial rigid ring wing set? How high, wide, cooperatively etc can they stack and interoperate?
    I know that I can do him some good drawings if he wants them.


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18823 From: Rod Read Date: 8/26/2015
    Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

    Thanks Dave that sounds only proper then. Is Rudy on the forum? Anyway it's all in the mix of a good AWE system... Fairs fair whoevurshitis!
    Not saying that I'm more full of hype than any of the rest of you... But I still have to properly prove my designs claims before that argument of where exactly in the ven diagram of former design scapes proper AWE lays is going to bother anyone.

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18824 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
    Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?
    Correction: "than (Doug's) SuperTurbine" was the intended meaning, not "and SuperTurbine".

    I do hope Doug is in fact interested in the technical points Rod is exploring, as Rod imagines. My impression is that rigid wings only make worse the high-altitude scaling challenges with Doug's torque-transmission method, and hardly alleviate the inherent low angular velocity limitation of all the large-scale torque-based concepts.



    On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 3:44 PM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com  
    Doug S is probably answering useful questions like... What is the speed limit of a radial rigid ring wing set? How high, wide, cooperatively etc can they stack and interoperate?
    I know that I can do him some good drawings if he wants them.




    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18825 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
    Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?
    I don't think Rudy is on the Forum, but do I keep in touch by phone and email. He is a friendly successful retired businessman, glad to hear good news, but is not himself active in anymore with kite tech. You work is good news for his original concept, and I have mentioned it to him, and he was pleased.

    The concern to properly attribute AWE is related to the concern over loose criteria for your AWE scoring matrix, where initial inclusion is based more on commercial venture PR rather than abstract scientific and technical classification. For Example: Hans Oberth's classic LTA-flygen AWES concept does not get scored or even mentioned. Instead, in the LTA flygen space, Altaeros' very odd torus LTA is featured, with its far higher envelope-mass-to-volume, higher frontal drag, greater build complexity, faster leakage, and other unexplained trade-offs.

    You may have an unconscious bias against some ideas that are not yours personally, or not well represented in the AWE marketing hype-sphere, as not commanding attention. My bias is in favor of actually testing AWE all our AWES concepts comparatively, carefully separated from the hype, and let the scoring matrix be data-driven thereby, to better inform investment.



    On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 3:55 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Thanks Dave that sounds only proper then. Is Rudy on the forum? Anyway it's all in the mix of a good AWE system... Fairs fair whoevurshitis!
    Not saying that I'm more full of hype than any of the rest of you... But I still have to properly prove my designs claims before that argument of where exactly in the ven diagram of former design scapes proper AWE lays is going to bother anyone.


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18826 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
    Subject: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM
    On Rod's behalf, I was looking for Mark Moore's ace technical advice (made to Mike Barnard's blog "Barnard on Wind") regarding just how to improve Barnard's own crude AWES scoring matrix, but the site was gone. MikeB had been the top public critic of AWE as a whole, insisting that conventional wind towers and nukes were the proper solutions for a low-carbon energy future.

    An explanation was found on a website by some strongly who opposed to MikeB's past practices, citing MikeB's IBM employer who ruled MikeB must "delete the Barnardonwind blog, terminate the Energy and Policy Institute Senior Fellow role and agree to no longer publish on wind energy.".

    ------------begin excerpt---------------
    IBM Corporate Officer (Brand Manager, Communications) Carrie Bendzsa, after numerous discussions with Lange of NA-PAW, wrote to NA-PAW, thanking the organization for bringing this matter to their attention, asserting that none of “these postings or comments (libel by Barnard) were IBM endorsed actions.”
    The communique continues:
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18827 From: dave santos Date: 8/26/2015
    Subject: NASA systems-engineering handbook on decision-analysis
    For AWES engineering to industrial AE standards by those brave souls designing decision-matrices (or knowledgebases, "mind-maps", etc.); NASA  provides a suitable baseline model . A full blown AE effort can consist of sub-matrices within super-matirices, from the top-level concept to the most granular detail. An old controversy is whether numeric certainty-factors corrupt semantic reasoning unduly, as Cycorp has maintained. Numbers are best used when based on data only, in tandem with qualitative reasoning methods-
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18828 From: dougselsam Date: 8/26/2015
    Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects
    "So there is still no news to report from USWindLabs?"
    *** No news to report 2 U.

    No news about investors or any technical progress?
    *** Why do you keep asking people about investors?  I don't take peoples' money unless I need it, and don't waste people's money on stuff that doesn't work.  I believe good ideas make good products, whereas investor dollars in new energy devices are almost always squandered without investors ever getting a return.  People throw money at me, and I throw it back. 

    Only a pattern of complaints about players who do make news?
    *** "Complaints" is your territory.  Who first told you there WAS NO Altaeros BAT powering a remote village in Alaska?  That was me, while your supposed "press" snoozed, and kept repeating a false story.  I had the real news for you, as usual.  The press only repeated falsehoods.   Nobody had to tell me there was no BAT operating in remote Alaska.  After 20 years of reading false stories about clean energy breakthroughs, one learns what to expect.  Do you prefer fake news over real news?  Fiction over facts?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18829 From: Rod Read Date: 8/26/2015
    Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?

    It was written...
    You (I) may have an unconscious bias against some ideas that are not yours personally, or not well represented in the AWE marketing hype-sphere, as not commanding attention.

    Yes I may, but I was promoting my conscious biases against some hyped ventures. I agree that having more soundly reasoned relational data on the score weighting is going to be the trump card of a true matrix which will blow mine out of the water, exposing it for the feeble half arsed attempt that it is. Still, for today... Are there any better ones in the realm?
    I'm very excited to see Dave S is planning to develop a scoring matrix along NASA guidelines.

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18830 From: Hardensoft International Limited Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM
    A big relief. Kudos to IBM. Certainly AirborneWind employing Kites (UAVs) is different from Towered Wind given the much needed AE expertise involved.
    Further Lifts.
    JohnO
    AWEIA
    John Adeoye  Oyebanji   B.Sc. MCPN
    Managing Consultant & CEO
    Hardensoft International Limited
    <Technologies  
    On Rod's behalf, I was looking for Mark Moore's ace technical advice (made to Mike Barnard's blog "Barnard on Wind") regarding just how to improve Barnard's own crude AWES scoring matrix, but the site was gone. MikeB had been the top public critic of AWE as a whole, insisting that conventional wind towers and nukes were the proper solutions for a low-carbon energy future.

    An explanation was found on a website by some strongly who opposed to MikeB's past practices, citing MikeB's IBM employer who ruled MikeB must "delete the Barnardonwind blog, terminate the Energy and Policy Institute Senior Fellow role and agree to no longer publish on wind energy.".

    ------------begin excerpt---------------
    IBM Corporate Officer (Brand Manager, Communications) Carrie Bendzsa, after numerous discussions with Lange of NA-PAW, wrote to NA-PAW, thanking the organization for bringing this matter to their attention, asserting that none of “these postings or comments (libel by Barnard) were IBM endorsed actions.”
    The communique continues:
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18831 From: Rod Read Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?
    If I was to put Rudy Harburgs drawn patent work in the scoring matrix..
    I'd score it lower than Dougs "superturbine" on usability... too many sticks!
    My bias is for ring to ring
    Check out my latest twist cascaded torque ring bridling... https://youtu.be/k45ws1NTlFE
    like most of my work... it's not ready to be commercial ... needs a wee tweak.


    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18832 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: "Goliath" project , towards LLJs: step 1. building.

    Hi all,

     

    Several approachs are discussed: soft or rigid wings comprising tethered aircrafts or rotorcrafts, ground-based generators or generators aloft.

    Scalability is a major concern: few big devices within a farm make less risks of touching, avoiding a forest of long moving tethers with possible different wind directions, so large spacing of small devices. An alternative not still completely studied is also linked small devices.

     

    So concerning soft kites huge dimensions far beyond that known make a field for both practical and theoretical studies.

     

    Here is a proposal to build two kites both beyond world record of size, by both resistant and cheap material: tarpaulin 50 gr/m² fixed within rope-net making structure holding hangers and tethers.Large pieces of tarpaulin required less work to assemble.

    1.  6,000 m² Rotating kite  (tilted rotor for Rotating Reeling presented in AWEC2015, or for Daisy-torque ladder, or for yoyo system)
    2.  4,000 m² Pilot-kite  (to lift Daisy, or Parotor for Rotating Reeling (although a further improved automated device would work without pilot-kite) , or SuperTurbine (tm), or Rudy's device, or others)

    Expected cost of material: 12,000 $ .

     

    Some indications on https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AirborneWindEnergy/conversations/topics/5603

    and http://www.energykitesystems.net/CoopIP/AdvancedTarpaulinKites.html .

     

    Previous experience as 300 m² Mothra with blue tarps and ropes. Fine experiences are realized within Kpower by Ed Sapir (the last with spinnaker under pilot-kite, and others), Dave Santos, Rod Read. I make also some tests in small scale (for Rotating Reeling on https://youtu.be/Bc2loZC4aD0 ).

     

    After it: taking  photos and relating for press, kites on ground, not flying, knowing project for kites records can allow some visibility.

     

    Step 2, later: organization of an event to show kites flying: a big logistic will be needed for such monsters, comprising safety requirements. Raising money for it.

     

    Step 3, later: finalization by building conversion systems, automation equipments for take off and landing, and for piloting. But these parts of investment are for Bill Gates.

     

    Propositions?

     

    Cheers,

     

    Pierre

    http://flygenkite.com

     

     

     
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18833 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Re: Damp those spinners with generators!

    Prism Flip Rotor Kite


    For each scale, perhaps first for the recreation product:  generator of electricity is invited, both flygen and for groundgen (both line oscillations offer?  and also reeling offer?)
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18834 From: dougselsam Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM
    I'm surprised to hear he has "a job".  My take has been that most people posting here have no job, hence the prolific posting.  What seems weird to me is the example that organization provided of Barnard's alleged transgressions, mentioning in a short e-mail  that a previous e-mail was not answered - did I get that right or am I missing something?  Seems like maybe he is being censored.  I don't personally care for the stuff he writes, finding it an overly-detailed and rambling synopsis of what wind energy people already know, but I don't remember seeing anything that bad.  I'd say, be aware that if AWE "takes off", the same anti-wind-energy groups will likely shift gears and be against AWE, without missing a beat, with many of the same complaints.  I think it would be a mistake to assume they would be allies.   And by the same token, if AWE proves to offer real solutions, people like Mike Barnard will jump in and acknowledge and document the success, and probably help defend AWE.  Success is hard to deny, and compelling to document.  The real key to all this is not the opinions of endless pundits, who will always be there, or even censoring their free speech, which seems abhorrent to me, but that AWE will never succeed by online arguments and name-calling.  It needs to succeed in the real 3-D world.  Then opinions may fall where they will.  It almost seems that the internet part is just a distraction, serving little or no purpose.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18835 From: dougselsam Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?
    daveS said: " Altaeros' very odd torus LTA is featured, with its far higher envelope-mass-to-volume, higher frontal drag, greater build complexity, faster leakage, and other unexplained trade-offs."

    *** OK so your opinion of Altaeros is evident.  Now what I'm asking is the following:  In your denigrating online attacks on me, you have repeatedly stated that the Alaska project was "delayed".  My guess is you have no specific information regarding such a delay, or you would have said so.  Therefore, I believe this "delay" you refer to is something you just made up.  If you have no evidence for such a statement, it may be a case of you knowingly making a false statement.  So, do you have any facts to back up your assertion of this "delay"?

    daveS continues to Rod Read: "My bias is in favor of actually testing AWE all our AWES concepts comparatively,"

    *** daveS, you have stated that you have tested more AWE configurations than any other party.  No need to fabricate hypothetical "testing" when you claim to have done the most testing (without quotes), and the "comparatively" part is already built-in to the process:  Your testing can be compared to other testing.  So in your testing, by what criteria would you judge your results versus the results of others?  Power output?  Reliability?  Smoothness of operation?  Longevity?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18836 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Re: Damp those spinners with generators!

    Damp it here, 

       damp it there,  

         and there too, 

           and there also ...


    Amazing Flip kite from Prism Kites


    And consider each kiting system in the following video: 

    Find ways to damp observed wing or tether or anchor motions to generate electricity.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANFTTG9H_C8
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18837 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Pulsing-Tether PTO AWES Arts (short pulse/high-frequency vibrations)

    Spotty notes in forum, some demo video by Dave S.  and some patent attention on pulsing-tether PTO form part of the record, so far. This topic thread invites a collecting of known related tech, as well as discussions and studies toward advancing the groundgen kite-system branch that uses pulsing (let this topic thread distinguish itself from long-strong oscillating such as reeling and long- stroke crosswinding methods which are worthy of attention in their own rights). 


    Here in this topic thread: I suggest that the focus be on non-reeling and non-long-stroke pulses. Here: short pulsing and tether vibrations of high frequency are given focus.  Convert the short pulses and/or tether vibrations to useful works including electricity production.  It is fine to specify systems that are niche uses or less popular uses. Explore the potentials.  Eventually there will probably be a branch in AWES competitions that feature the groundgen short-pulse/high-frequency vibrations.  And then such will be examined for fit to purpose. And compared to other solutions.  


    Notice that the PTO need not be immediate electricity production. Pumping, cutting, grinding, sound making, moving, polishing, bending, ... are other energy paths to consider. 


    To start: 

    Consider the humble Eddy single-lined flown. Examine tether choices when having groundgen PTO of the vibrations and short-strokes at the ground station. More than one movement occurs in the tether situation at the ground station.  1. Gross changes in the position of the tether.  2. Tension changes in the tether.   3. Longitudinal compression waves in the tether.  4. High-frequency complex oscillations in the tether.      How to PTO for any or all of the tether motions?     

     

    ==========================
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18838 From: dave santos Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM
    It was public knowledge in wind circles that MikeB worked for IBM (and even sockpuppeted Wikipedia from his Simgapore IBM server). Serious AWE R&D is a big job, and prolific technical and business posting is unavoidable. Even supposedly retired AE types are doing the hours ("best job ever") and getting paid, albeit unevenly. Corwin apparently died of overwork syndrome (karoshi); the competitive reality is hard work. Even the AWES Forum has been hard work (just ask the moderators). Skilled kite work is hard, but enjoyed as play by those able to do it.



    On Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:15 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    I'm surprised to hear he has "a job".  My take has been that most people posting here have no job, hence the prolific posting.  What seems weird to me is the example that organization provided of Barnard's alleged transgressions, mentioning in a short e-mail  that a previous e-mail was not answered - did I get that right or am I missing something?  Seems like maybe he is being censored.  I don't personally care for the stuff he writes, finding it an overly-detailed and rambling synopsis of what wind energy people already know, but I don't remember seeing anything that bad.  I'd say, be aware that if AWE "takes off", the same anti-wind-energy groups will likely shift gears and be against AWE, without missing a beat, with many of the same complaints.  I think it would be a mistake to assume they would be allies.   And by the same token, if AWE proves to offer real solutions, people like Mike Barnard will jump in and acknowledge and document the success, and probably help defend AWE.  Success is hard to deny, and compelling to document.  The real key to all this is not the opinions of endless pundits, who will always be there, or even censoring their free speech, which seems abhorrent to me, but that AWE will never succeed by online arguments and name-calling.  It needs to succeed in the real 3-D world.  Then opinions may fall where they will.  It almost seems that the internet part is just a distraction, serving little or no purpose.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18839 From: dave santos Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Re: Radial rigid ring wings speed limit research?
    Doug,

    Its true that I have predicted Altaeros Alaska trials will prove to have been delayed by circumstances, which is comon in R&D. Its also true that I advocate a grand fly-off (and scoring matrix) process between all the world's AWE teams, but it has not happened yet.

    My many varied experiments have been professional preparation for coming phases; a preliminary quest-for-knowledge before the big action that is coming,

    daveS



    On Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:16 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    daveS said: " Altaeros' very odd torus LTA is featured, with its far higher envelope-mass-to-volume, higher frontal drag, greater build complexity, faster leakage, and other unexplained trade-offs."

    *** OK so your opinion of Altaeros is evident.  Now what I'm asking is the following:  In your denigrating online attacks on me, you have repeatedly stated that the Alaska project was "delayed".  My guess is you have no specific information regarding such a delay, or you would have said so.  Therefore, I believe this "delay" you refer to is something you just made up.  If you have no evidence for such a statement, it may be a case of you knowingly making a false statement.  So, do you have any facts to back up your assertion of this "delay"?

    daveS continues to Rod Read: "My bias is in favor of actually testing AWE all our AWES concepts comparatively,"

    *** daveS, you have stated that you have tested more AWE configurations than any other party.  No need to fabricate hypothetical "testing" when you claim to have done the most testing (without quotes), and the "comparatively" part is already built-in to the process:  Your testing can be compared to other testing.  So in your testing, by what criteria would you judge your results versus the results of others?  Power output?  Reliability?  Smoothness of operation?  Longevity?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18840 From: dave santos Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects
    Doug,

    If you have no news to share, at least recognize that there is lots of real news in AWE (like Mitsubishi entering AWE) to the rest of us. Every time you complain publicly that there is no real AWE news (while no else seems to agree), then expect USWindLabs' ongoing lack of news to be relevant in context. It is news to us that you have been rejecting funding. Many of us thought you were in fact lately seeking to be paid before disclosing your oft claimed easy ways to do AWE. Thanks for the correction.

    daveS



    On Wednesday, August 26, 2015 10:17 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    "So there is still no news to report from USWindLabs?"
    *** No news to report 2 U.

    No news about investors or any technical progress?
    *** Why do you keep asking people about investors?  I don't take peoples' money unless I need it, and don't waste people's money on stuff that doesn't work.  I believe good ideas make good products, whereas investor dollars in new energy devices are almost always squandered without investors ever getting a return.  People throw money at me, and I throw it back. 

    Only a pattern of complaints about players who do make news?
    *** "Complaints" is your territory.  Who first told you there WAS NO Altaeros BAT powering a remote village in Alaska?  That was me, while your supposed "press" snoozed, and kept repeating a false story.  I had the real news for you, as usual.  The press only repeated falsehoods.   Nobody had to tell me there was no BAT operating in remote Alaska.  After 20 years of reading false stories about clean energy breakthroughs, one learns what to expect.  Do you prefer fake news over real news?  Fiction over facts?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18841 From: dave santos Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Who is deciding AWEC2016 issues?
    It was the working pattern that AWE conferences alternated across the Atlantic, between the "Old" and "New World". The pattern broke down as AWEC corporate control shifted to Northern EU insiders, who apparently then abandoned AWEC, to then create conferences from a less diverse circle of close insiders. 

    Its been revealed by PJ that the EU insiders have decided on yet another German conference (Freiburg), after the Dutch conference last year, and a Berlin conference before that. An American AWE conference is now years overdue, and US players where building a broad consensus on conference action. The EU insiders did not poll the wider community before preemptively moving to lock-in Germany once again.

    The US players need to make the case for an American AWE conference in public, so that EU conference planners are aware of pre-existing interest, and take it properly into account. Its not in anybody's interest for conferences to be monopolized by a small inside circle.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18842 From: dave santos Date: 8/27/2015
    Subject: Overview of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries America (MHIA)
    Altaeros' new investment partner MHIA* has the capability to industrialize AWE on any technological basis that emerges. They make a broad range of advanced products, from aircraft to industrial machinery-


    A lot of the new major players in AWE are big fish nibbling timidly at the AWE venture buffet. The next step is for some major player to go on a buying spree across AWE ventures, since many talented teams have not yet been optioned. The list of multi-million dollar deals in AWE started only a decade ago, and is growing fast. The MHI giant parent could be just getting started on a track that puts it at the center of global AWE industrialization.

    ---------------------
    * presuming MHIA susidiary as the working interface with the US venture
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18843 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Fw: Fwd: Airborne Wind Energy | Call for Book Chapters
    Thanks to Edmund for forwarding this-


    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: Airborne Wind Energy | Call for Book Chapters
    Date: 2015-08-28 10:57 am
    From: Roland Schmehl <r.schmehl@tudelft.nl
    To: Roland Schmehl <r.schmehl@tudelft.nl

    Dear AWEC 2015 author,

    The call for book chapter contributions is now available at
    http://awec2015.eu/call-for-book-chapters.html and I would like to
    invite you to submit your manuscript.

    With the number of chapter downloads approaching 40.000 the first book
    on Airborne Wind Energy published in 2013 with Springer
    (http://www.springer.com/us/book/9783642399640) has developed into a
    great success.
    Also because of this, Springer has agreed to produce a second book about
    the innovative renewable energy technology.
    Similar to the 2013 book, my agreement with Springer is "Green Access".
    This means that after a waiting period, during which book and chapter
    distribution goes exclusively through Springer, chapter authors can
    upload their own chapters to public repositories and websites.

    Submitted manuscripts will be subject to a peer review process.
    The timing details of this process will be published soon.
    The general target for the book publication is late spring 2016.

    AWEC 2015 authors are particularly invited to submit, however,
    participation in the book is open to anybody.
    If you already know the title and area of your contribution please let
    me know as soon as possible because this will allow me to properly place
    the scope of the book.

    I am looking forward to hearing from you!

    Best regards,
    Roland Schmehl

    -- 
    -----------------------------------
    Dr.-Ing. Roland Schmehl
    Associate Professor
    Delft University of Technology
    Kite Power Research Group
    Wind Energy Section / Faculty of Aerospace Engineering
    Kluyverweg 1, 2629 HS Delft, The Netherlands
    T +31 15 278 5318
    M +31 61 495 6025
    E r.schmehl@tudelft.nl
    www.twitter.com/kite_power
    www.kitepower.eu | www.awesco.eu | www.awec2015.eu
    www.online-learning.tudelft.nl/courses/airborne-wind-energy
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18844 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM
    Dave S. noted: "It was public knowledge in wind circles that MikeB worked for IBM (and even sockpuppeted Wikipedia from his Singapore IBM server)."

    *** Yeah for people fixated on him.  Most people don't care what he says anyway, let alone the details of his life.
    ======================
    Dave S. noted: "Serious AWE R&D is a big job,"

    *** Apparently too big for you: what do you have for results?
    ======================
    Dave S. noted: " and prolific technical and business posting is unavoidable."

    *** Yeah for you - how much of what you post has any meaning?
    ======================
    Dave S. noted:  Even supposedly retired AE types are doing the hours ("best job ever") and getting paid, albeit unevenly."

    *** I seem to find myself asking so often "what is your point?"

    ======================
    Dave S. noted: "Corwin apparently died of overwork syndrome (karoshi);"

    *** Interesting you throw that sentence in, out of context.  Let's see, guy invents energy solution, mysteriously dies while huge company buys up his project, which then stalls, and miraculously, daveS has the "diagnosis".  I will ask you (as usual) TO PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE OF YOUR STATEMENT.   A major elephant in the room of AWE is the lack of an explanation for this saddest event in AWE.

    ======================
    Dave S. noted: "the competitive reality is hard work."

    *** blathering on...

    ======================
    Dave S. noted: "Even the AWES Forum has been hard work (just ask the moderators)."

    *** Busy listening to your complaints that others are (sometimes) allowed to speak freely...

    ======================
    Dave S. noted: "Skilled kite work is hard, but enjoyed as play by those able to do it."

    *** Yes you are playing.  Not sure why it has to involve constantly bothering me.  Go fly a kite.

    ~ Doug S.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18845 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Who is deciding AWEC2016 issues?
    ======================
    Dave S. noted: " Its not in anybody's interest for conferences to be monopolized by a small inside circle."

    *** Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.  What's the difference if 1000 companies have a million conferences?  How does "a conference" affect your progress?  How can "a conference" make your devices work?  If "a conference" fell in the forest and nobody was there to listen, did it offer any AWE solutions?  Why are "conferences" so important if nobody has any working solutions anyway?  With the internet tying the planet together with instant communication, what is the point of hundreds of people flying around the world to sit in a room together and listen to people standing there in front of a screen talking about stuff that they may get to work someday, or may not, or maybe it is just not workable at all?  Why fly to Europe at a cost of thousands of dollars and a week of downtime, to see a powerpoint presentation with a bunch of misspelled words when you can see it on the internet before your morning shower and get on with your day?  If you think "a conference" in the US is so important, then have one!

    ~ Doug S.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18846 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects
    Dave S. noted: "Doug, If you have no news to share, at least recognize that there is lots of real news in AWE (like Mitsubishi entering AWE) to the rest of us." 

    *** I said no news to share with YOU.  You seem to be ignoring my main point: what you THINK is "news" is usually NOT news at all, but sheer balderdash.  That is "the syndrome" I've tried to warn people about, but obviously I'm talking to the wrong people.  This is like walking into a cocktail party full of drunks and trying to warn them about the dangers of alcoholism:  "He must be talking about someone else - this couldn't apply to us."

    Dave S. noted: "Every time you complain publicly that there is no real AWE news (while no else seems to agree), then expect USWindLabs' ongoing lack of news to be relevant in context."

    *** Tell me the details of the Altaeros "delay" you keep referring to in your attempts to argue with me.  Yeah you are right, "no else seems to agree" (sp) with me: You read magazine article-after-magazine article, newspaper articles, website articles, all agreeing Altaeros is powering some remote village in Alaska.  I take one look at the pictures of their BAT and declare with certainty "No, there is NOT a BAT powering a remote village in Alaska"  The problem you have is discerning who is right.  This is not my first rodeo.  I've seen all this before.  If you would rather believe 100 inaccurate articles over me, fine, but the articles were wrong, and I was right.   I know what the heck I am doing, you don't, and they don't.  The pundits are just pundits with no actual knowledge.   I understand the space, you are forever having the wool pulled over your eyes.  I have healthy skepticism borne of experience, you have naivete combined with a pushy, negative attitude.  I do not mean to pick on Altaeros, but they are like a poster-child of "the syndrome" - the press-releases so far have simply not been true.  After all the holes in their theory even you can identify, what do you expect to see next?  

    Dave S. noted: "It is news to us that you have been rejecting funding."

    *** I make a mistake every time I say anything to you.  Things are more complicated than what will fit into a few sentences.  Just forget I said anything about my efforts to you.  And my funding or lack thereof, or anyone else's, are not your concern.  Who the heck are you to monitor everyones' funding anyway?  Don't you have some tarps to play with, or a Bose-Einstein Condensate energy solution work on?  All I can tell you is I do not issue fraudulent press-releases or false announcements of "upcoming events" that never happen.  You cannot say the same.

    Dave S. noted: " Many of us thought you were in fact lately seeking to be paid before disclosing your oft claimed easy ways to do AWE. Thanks for the correction. daveS"

    *** Last time you asked, I gave you 10 easy ways to do AWE and expressed my dismay that out of so many "teams" with so many millions to work with, nobody was pursuing any of these promising paths.   "Shoom!", right over your head.  You have problems acknowledging true information, mired in falsehoods and bad information.   There are many MORE great ways to do AWE.  Nobody is trying any of them, least of all you.  Test test test and you tie a few tarps together and call it an AWE effort.  You talk up a storm but are unable to reply to the simplest challenge regarding your talk.  I asked you for your evidence of Altaeros' "delay" which you so often refer to while attempting to denigrate me.  You are unable to answer.  Therefore I am forced to believe your assertions of a "delay" are just made-up on your part, with no actual information to that effect.  In other words, it seems to me that you are knowingly making a statement that you have no actual reason to believe is true. 




    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18847 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects
    Doug,

    Its enough to note that USWindLabs has no real news on offer. Of course this leads to speculation, like maybe the ST is now only a bluff, given the public discussion of its square-cube scaling limits. I will be glad to just follow whatever news USWindLabs has for the world, if not here, then wherever is better.

    Good luck making that news great,

    daveS



    On Friday, August 28, 2015 12:08 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Dave S. noted: "Doug, If you have no news to share, at least recognize that there is lots of real news in AWE (like Mitsubishi entering AWE) to the rest of us." 

    *** I said no news to share with YOU.  You seem to be ignoring my main point: what you THINK is "news" is usually NOT news at all, but sheer balderdash.  That is "the syndrome" I've tried to warn people about, but obviously I'm talking to the wrong people.  This is like walking into a cocktail party full of drunks and trying to warn them about the dangers of alcoholism:  "He must be talking about someone else - this couldn't apply to us."

    Dave S. noted: "Every time you complain publicly that there is no real AWE news (while no else seems to agree), then expect USWindLabs' ongoing lack of news to be relevant in context."

    *** Tell me the details of the Altaeros "delay" you keep referring to in your attempts to argue with me.  Yeah you are right, "no else seems to agree" (sp) with me: You read magazine article-after-magazine article, newspaper articles, website articles, all agreeing Altaeros is powering some remote village in Alaska.  I take one look at the pictures of their BAT and declare with certainty "No, there is NOT a BAT powering a remote village in Alaska"  The problem you have is discerning who is right.  This is not my first rodeo.  I've seen all this before.  If you would rather believe 100 inaccurate articles over me, fine, but the articles were wrong, and I was right.   I know what the heck I am doing, you don't, and they don't.  The pundits are just pundits with no actual knowledge.   I understand the space, you are forever having the wool pulled over your eyes.  I have healthy skepticism borne of experience, you have naivete combined with a pushy, negative attitude.  I do not mean to pick on Altaeros, but they are like a poster-child of "the syndrome" - the press-releases so far have simply not been true.  After all the holes in their theory even you can identify, what do you expect to see next?  

    Dave S. noted: "It is news to us that you have been rejecting funding."

    *** I make a mistake every time I say anything to you.  Things are more complicated than what will fit into a few sentences.  Just forget I said anything about my efforts to you.  And my funding or lack thereof, or anyone else's, are not your concern.  Who the heck are you to monitor everyones' funding anyway?  Don't you have some tarps to play with, or a Bose-Einstein Condensate energy solution work on?  All I can tell you is I do not issue fraudulent press-releases or false announcements of "upcoming events" that never happen.  You cannot say the same.

    Dave S. noted: " Many of us thought you were in fact lately seeking to be paid before disclosing your oft claimed easy ways to do AWE. Thanks for the correction. daveS"

    *** Last time you asked, I gave you 10 easy ways to do AWE and expressed my dismay that out of so many "teams" with so many millions to work with, nobody was pursuing any of these promising paths.   "Shoom!", right over your head.  You have problems acknowledging true information, mired in falsehoods and bad information.   There are many MORE great ways to do AWE.  Nobody is trying any of them, least of all you.  Test test test and you tie a few tarps together and call it an AWE effort.  You talk up a storm but are unable to reply to the simplest challenge regarding your talk.  I asked you for your evidence of Altaeros' "delay" which you so often refer to while attempting to denigrate me.  You are unable to answer.  Therefore I am forced to believe your assertions of a "delay" are just made-up on your part, with no actual information to that effect.  In other words, it seems to me that you are knowingly making a statement that you have no actual reason to believe is true. 






    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18848 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM
    Doug,

    Mike Barnard made quite an impact in the AWE community. Seven of our leading PhDs even lined up to rebut him in just one blog post. Sorry you missed all the drama, from Margaret Atwood to the HAWT NIMBY communities.

    No one I know in AWE is fixated on MikeB as you imagine; we will move on,

    daveS





    On Friday, August 28, 2015 12:00 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Dave S. noted: "It was public knowledge in wind circles that MikeB worked for IBM (and even sockpuppeted Wikipedia from his Singapore IBM server)."

    *** Yeah for people fixated on him.  Most people don't care what he says anyway, let alone the details of his life.
    ======================
    Dave S. noted: "Serious AWE R&D is a big job,"

    *** Apparently too big for you: what do you have for results?
    ======================
    Dave S. noted: " and prolific technical and business posting is unavoidable."

    *** Yeah for you - how much of what you post has any meaning?
    ======================
    Dave S. noted:  Even supposedly retired AE types are doing the hours ("best job ever") and getting paid, albeit unevenly."

    *** I seem to find myself asking so often "what is your point?"

    ======================
    Dave S. noted: "Corwin apparently died of overwork syndrome (karoshi);"

    *** Interesting you throw that sentence in, out of context.  Let's see, guy invents energy solution, mysteriously dies while huge company buys up his project, which then stalls, and miraculously, daveS has the "diagnosis".  I will ask you (as usual) TO PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE OF YOUR STATEMENT.   A major elephant in the room of AWE is the lack of an explanation for this saddest event in AWE.

    ======================
    Dave S. noted: "the competitive reality is hard work."

    *** blathering on...

    ======================
    Dave S. noted: "Even the AWES Forum has been hard work (just ask the moderators)."

    *** Busy listening to your complaints that others are (sometimes) allowed to speak freely...

    ======================
    Dave S. noted: "Skilled kite work is hard, but enjoyed as play by those able to do it."

    *** Yes you are playing.  Not sure why it has to involve constantly bothering me.  Go fly a kite.

    ~ Doug S.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18849 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?

    Dave S. noted: "Doug, Its true that I have predicted Altaeros Alaska trials will prove to have been delayed by circumstances,"

    *** What do you mean "its true"?  When did you ever predict that?  I believe you just made that statement up, and it is not true.  You were NOT the one to announce there was no BAT powering a remote village in Alaska, it was me.  You can stop trying to pretend you know what's up like me.  You don't.  You are not me.
    ============================== ============
    Dave S. noted: "which is common in R&D."
    *** I will ask you ONE MORE TIME:  Where is your evidence of this "delay" you keep talking about?  Can you share any details?  Here are the specific details I'd like you to provide:
    1) Who told you about a "delay"?  What person provided that information to you?
    2) What was the reason given for "the delay"?
    You started calling it a "delay" about a year ago, so
    3) When is the makeup date for when the project will supposedly resume?

    Dave S. noted: "Its also true that I advocate a grand fly-off (and scoring matrix) process between all the world's AWE teams, but it has not happened yet."

    *** "you advocate" -  what is your point?  Seems like you're changing the subject.  "Scoring matrix" - what is that, the last refuge of people who are unable to achieve any actual results?  Whoopee-doo, is this ever supposed to get real, or is it forever hypothetical?  Forgive me but I can't help but envision the shaggy hair, dirty glasses, pocket-protector, beard, and bowtie, of the good professor punching at his calculator, gleefully spewing (with spit droplets) the incredible performance of his... (ahem) "scoring matrix"...

    Dave S. noted: "My many varied experiments have been professional preparation for coming phases; a preliminary quest-for-knowledge before the big action that is coming, daveS"

    *** You seem to have endless talk, endless announcements of future progress, almost expressed in a threatening tone.  Years and years of this threatening tone, and what do you have for results now, in your "quest for knowledge"?  What's the biggest piece of knowledge you can now share, after all that "testing"?  How are you ahead of where you were 5 years ago?  Where has this "quest for knowledge" led, so far?  I'll tell you what I've noticed about the plethora of false and inaccurate statements emanating from not only the "clean-energy-breakthough" crowd, but from people in general:  The most common source of inaccurate statements involve the one thing the purveyor of the statements has any control over: their own future actions.  Ironic but true.  So if you have "a big action that is coming", do you know what it is?  Do you know when it is?  Is this something we can check back on at a certain date and verify whether your statement is true?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18850 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Request for news about USWindLabs Investment Prospects
    Dave S. noted:  "Doug, Its enough to note that USWindLabs has no real news on offer. ...daveS"

    *** Great attempt to change the subject, daveS, now how about sharing details of the stated "delay" you've mentioned so many times, with the rest of the class:
    1) What is the source of your information regarding this "delay"?
    2) What was the reason given?
    3) When is the make-up date?
    Thanks
    :)
    DougS
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18851 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Pulsing-Tether PTO AWES Arts (short pulse/high-frequency vibrati
    Consider the possible usefulness of the following compound tether: 
    The aloft main long length of tether is made of very inelastic material;
    then within the ground station hand reach: have an elastic segment of tether. 
    Notice the movement of the lower end of the inelastic tether (which is the upper end of the elastic tether segment). That movement may be mined for PTO purposes.  Reeling is not involved in this focus. Consider placing the wing set in crappy turbulent air; the point of the lower part of the inelastic tether of such a system will move often; mine that motion. 
    ~ Joe F

    ===========================================
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18852 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?
    Doug,

    Everyone seems to agree that Altaeros timelline for its Alaska trial slipped. It was discussed on the AWES Forum. My guess was normal engineering and/or bureaucratic delay. If you predicted the delay on similar grounds, that's only reasonable,

    daveS



    On Friday, August 28, 2015 12:45 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  

    Dave S. noted: "Doug, Its true that I have predicted Altaeros Alaska trials will prove to have been delayed by circumstances,"

    *** What do you mean "its true"?  When did you ever predict that?  I believe you just made that statement up, and it is not true.  You were NOT the one to announce there was no BAT powering a remote village in Alaska, it was me.  You can stop trying to pretend you know what's up like me.  You don't.  You are not me.
    ============================== ============
    Dave S. noted: "which is common in R&D."
    *** I will ask you ONE MORE TIME:  Where is your evidence of this "delay" you keep talking about?  Can you share any details?  Here are the specific details I'd like you to provide:
    1) Who told you about a "delay"?  What person provided that information to you?
    2) What was the reason given for "the delay"?
    You started calling it a "delay" about a year ago, so
    3) When is the makeup date for when the project will supposedly resume?

    Dave S. noted: "Its also true that I advocate a grand fly-off (and scoring matrix) process between all the world's AWE teams, but it has not happened yet."

    *** "you advocate" -  what is your point?  Seems like you're changing the subject.  "Scoring matrix" - what is that, the last refuge of people who are unable to achieve any actual results?  Whoopee-doo, is this ever supposed to get real, or is it forever hypothetical?  Forgive me but I can't help but envision the shaggy hair, dirty glasses, pocket-protector, beard, and bowtie, of the good professor punching at his calculator, gleefully spewing (with spit droplets) the incredible performance of his... (ahem) "scoring matrix"...

    Dave S. noted: "My many varied experiments have been professional preparation for coming phases; a preliminary quest-for-knowledge before the big action that is coming, daveS"

    *** You seem to have endless talk, endless announcements of future progress, almost expressed in a threatening tone.  Years and years of this threatening tone, and what do you have for results now, in your "quest for knowledge"?  What's the biggest piece of knowledge you can now share, after all that "testing"?  How are you ahead of where you were 5 years ago?  Where has this "quest for knowledge" led, so far?  I'll tell you what I've noticed about the plethora of false and inaccurate statements emanating from not only the "clean-energy-breakthough" crowd, but from people in general:  The most common source of inaccurate statements involve the one thing the purveyor of the statements has any control over: their own future actions.  Ironic but true.  So if you have "a big action that is coming", do you know what it is?  Do you know when it is?  Is this something we can check back on at a certain date and verify whether your statement is true?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18853 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM
    Dave S. noted:   "Doug, Mike Barnard made quite an impact in the AWE community. Seven of our leading PhDs even lined up to rebut him in just one blog post."

    *** Seven PhD's and the best they can do is try to rebut a critic?  Why don't they just PROVE Barnard as being in error by showing him a working system that provides an economical power solution at any scale, by any method?  Certainly they must have SOMETHING to hold up to a critic by now.  People with new ideas in wind energy seem to commonly make the mistake that the challenge is to deny the observations of third parties that have expressed doubts, on the internet.  The critics are not what is holding back the PhD's.  They are trying to turn their own lack of results into a personality contest, in my opinion.
    ================

    Dave S. noted:   "Sorry you missed all the drama, from Margaret Atwood to the HAWT NIMBY communities."

    *** Real wind people understand that internet drama over ideas for new wind energy devices can be ignored.  It's always the same - same or similar ideas being promoted, same points made in debunking them, like the movie "Groundhog Day".  BTW even real windfarm people do not want windfarm turbines in their OWN backyard.
    ================

    Dave S. noted:   "No one I know in AWE is fixated on MikeB as you imagine; we will move on, daveS"

    *** OK thanks for sharing your wisdom.  :)  Let's just loop this and repeat your opening statement: "Mike Barnard made quite an impact in the AWE community. Seven of our leading PhDs even lined up to rebut him in just one blog post."
    ~ Doug S.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18854 From: dougselsam Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Latest Altaeros News?
    Dave S. noted:   "Doug, Everyone seems to agree that Altaeros timelline for its Alaska trial slipped."

    *** Who, specifically is "everyone"?  Where, specifically, do you get THAT information that "everyone" agrees that a "timeline slipped"?  Can you identify these people who you say/think that?

    ===================

    Dave S. noted:   "It was discussed on the AWES Forum."

    *** By whom, and when?  Where is the source of factual information?

     ===================

    Dave S. noted:   "My guess was normal engineering and/or bureaucratic delay."

    *** So you admit you just made it up?  With no facts?  No actual source of information to back up your repeated harassment arguing about what you keep calling "a delay"?  Well that is exactly my point.  You are just making it up, and stating it as a proven fact.  Very transparent.  Now you are admitting it was your "guess".  Why argue about your "guess" pretending it is a fact?  Is that not a dishonest way to carry on a discussion?

    ===================
     
    Dave S. noted: "If you predicted the delay on similar grounds, that's only reasonable -daveS"

    *** There you go again, very slippery how you keep using the word "delay", attempting to put words in my mouth.  Not accurate.  I did not refer to "a delay".  You did.  Remember?  It is not my place to reschedule other projects.  And I did not "predict" anything.  I simply pointed out, in real time, last year, that there WAS NO BAT powering a remote village in Alaska, after hearing similar stories for the last 20 years, that were never true.  And there is no tooth fairy.  The reasons are all the same ones you have noted with regard to the configuration, combined with the fact that new wind energy systems are notorious for having problems, and there is no way a new and largely unproven wind system prototype is going to be successfully deployed in a remote arctic location.  Deployment in such locations is questionable even with the most highly-dependable and well-proven products.  I take one look at that contraption and imagine it in a 50 mph arctic wind - does not seem like it would be strong enough to withstand an Alaska winter to me.  Nobody in their right mind would deploy a first prototype in such a location.  It does not pass the smell test, for anyone who has any experience or knowledge in the field.  Anyway, at least you have finally admitted you made the whole thing up.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18855 From: dave santos Date: 8/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Mike Barnard curbed by IBM
    Doug,

    In fact MikeB's critics did "prove" many of his specific assertions to be incorrect, by various logical and documentary means. The written trail by AWE PhDs would tend to support IBM to pull the plug on the apparent disinformation pattern.

    I particularly appreciate how Dr. Mark Moore of NASA technically corrected MikeB in fine diplomatic style. Mark's critiques well represent my own view of MikeB's clumsy AWE speculations. You were yourself a repeat commentator on MikeB's site, with your own bit-part inside the story,

    daveS





    On Friday, August 28, 2015 1:08 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Dave S. noted:   "Doug, Mike Barnard made quite an impact in the AWE community. Seven of our leading PhDs even lined up to rebut him in just one blog post."

    *** Seven PhD's and the best they can do is try to rebut a critic?  Why don't they just PROVE Barnard as being in error by showing him a working system that provides an economical power solution at any scale, by any method?  Certainly they must have SOMETHING to hold up to a critic by now.  People with new ideas in wind energy seem to commonly make the mistake that the challenge is to deny the observations of third parties that have expressed doubts, on the internet.  The critics are not what is holding back the PhD's.  They are trying to turn their own lack of results into a personality contest, in my opinion.
    ================

    Dave S. noted:   "Sorry you missed all the drama, from Margaret Atwood to the HAWT NIMBY communities."

    *** Real wind people understand that internet drama over ideas for new wind energy devices can be ignored.  It's always the same - same or similar ideas being promoted, same points made in debunking them, like the movie "Groundhog Day".  BTW even real windfarm people do not want windfarm turbines in their OWN backyard.
    ================

    Dave S. noted:   "No one I know in AWE is fixated on MikeB as you imagine; we will move on, daveS"

    *** OK thanks for sharing your wisdom.  :)  Let's just loop this and repeat your opening statement: "Mike Barnard made quite an impact in the AWE community. Seven of our leading PhDs even lined up to rebut him in just one blog post."
    ~ Doug S.