Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 18349 to 18398 Page 261 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18349 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18350 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18351 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18352 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18353 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18354 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18355 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18356 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18357 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18358 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18359 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18360 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18361 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18362 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18363 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18364 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18365 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18366 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18367 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18368 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18369 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18370 From: dave santos Date: 7/9/2015
Subject: Sky40 acquired by American Wind Power Museum

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18371 From: Rod Read Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18372 From: dave santos Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: GW-Scale Cross-Current Paravane-Cableway

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18373 From: Rod Read Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18374 From: dave santos Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18375 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18376 From: dave santos Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18377 From: Rod Read Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18378 From: Rod Read Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: GW-Scale Cross-Current Paravane-Cableway

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18379 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18380 From: dave santos Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18381 From: Rod Read Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18382 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Lawrence Hargrave - a pioneer in aviation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18383 From: dave santos Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Lawrence Hargrave - a pioneer in aviation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18384 From: Rod Read Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18385 From: dave santos Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18386 From: Rod Read Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18387 From: dave santos Date: 7/12/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18388 From: edoishi Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Fort Felker to MakaniX

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18389 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Power Harvesting Factor and maximisation of swept area

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18390 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18391 From: dave santos Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18392 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18393 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18394 From: dave santos Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18395 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18396 From: dave santos Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18397 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18398 From: dave santos Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18349 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US7291936 - Submersible electrical power generating plant

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18350 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US3986787 - River turbine

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18351 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US4095918 - Turbine wheel with catenary blades   More of Moulton:

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18352 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

What the wiki mechanically misses in part is that fluid AWES invention covers air and water and other gases and liquids, and even other flowing aggregate materials. For those skilled in the arts, such is basic reflection. It would be silly to have a vast set of invention claims over each specific gas and each specific liquid, unless the invention detail directly gains novelty from the specific chemical composition of the fluid interaction in a non-obvious manner.

======================================

Patent US4205943 - Hydro-electric generator

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18353 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US4219303 - Submarine turbine power plant  More Moulton, et al.

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18354 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US4306157 - Underwater slow current turbo generator

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18355 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US4383182 - Underwater power generator

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18356 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US4850190 - Submerged ocean current electrical generator and method for hydrogen production

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18357 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US6091161 - Method of controlling operating depth of an electricity-generating device having a tethered water current-driven turbine

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18358 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US6168373 - Dual hydroturbine unit

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18359 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US6305309 - Attitude and roll stabilizer for towed undersea devices

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18360 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US6531788 - Submersible electrical power generating plant

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18361 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US6955049 - Machine and system for power generation through movement of water

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18362 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US6856036 - Installation for harvesting ocean currents (IHOC)

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18363 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US7199484 - Water current generator

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18364 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US20070096472 - Tidal turbine installation

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18365 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

Claims include paravane turbine:

Patent US7404370 - Steerable diverter for towed seismic streamer arrays

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18366 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators

"or impeller turbine 30, shown generally by broken lines in FIG. 1 and designed to supply electricity to the depth control means 29, may be attached to the tail portion 15 of the fuselage 12."

Patent US4463701 - Paravane with automatic depth control

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18367 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US2501696 - Stream turbine

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18368 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US7682126 - Tethered propgen

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18369 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/8/2015
Subject: Re: Tidal Stream Generators
Patent US8246293 - Submersible plant

 Minesto, Feb. 2, 2006, with a paravane turbine or underwater kite or fluid kite. They are not the first with such tech. Perhaps they have some details that are novelty.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18370 From: dave santos Date: 7/9/2015
Subject: Sky40 acquired by American Wind Power Museum
The Texas AWE Encampment is over for the season, so I am making my way back NW loaded with kite stuff. On Monday I presented kPower's Sky40 evaluation unit, provided by Dan Tracy of Pacific Sky Power, to Coy Harris, founder of the American Wind Power Museum in Lubbock, Texas. The Sky40 is recognized in AWE as the first commercial system for electrical AWE. I also presented a bag of Dutch windmilled flour that Ed brought back to Austin from Delft (AWEC2015).

Coy was delighted by both acquisitions, and invites further collection contributions from all AWE pioneers, including large prototype hardware; for the giant new exhibition hall just completed, to feature AWE as a major development in wind tech. We are also building a volunteer team to maintain and operate the wonderful traditional wooden post mill at the museum. The museum has hundreds of historic and modern windmills, many of them working outdoors, as a strange forest; no ordinary wind farm.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18371 From: Rod Read Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Two rings stacked

Delighted to announce that Daisy's definitely fly stacked.
Seems to be working more smoothly than previously.
Not quite hitting the 100w average I was hoping for. But definitely going over that in the gusts.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18372 From: dave santos Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: GW-Scale Cross-Current Paravane-Cableway
A long-distance power-cableway loop can set cross-current to be driven by large undersea shunting fabric-sail paravane units, much as similar AWES concepts are envisioned to fly in the sky. The cable loop is a dynamic gangline for the sail-units shuttle back and forth within their own local scope; tugging bi-directionally by clutching the loop each direction in turn.

Advantages include-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18373 From: Rod Read Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked
Here's a clip of the first launch.
Sorry it took so long to get round to launching it... summer (not that you'd believe it in this video) holiday time nonsense taking over.
https://youtu.be/aJk5TM9QsJM

https://youtu.be/VTlcmpgknpk

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18374 From: dave santos Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked
Nice proof-of-concept of the "bottle" configuration. These two rings are rigged rather close, so more shadowing and wake interference is presemt; but wider spacing will reduce those losses.

Definitely a contender in the AWES horse race, where it is currently hoped the Bill Gates Foundation will fund a comprehensive fly-off of all AWES concepts able to muster for a scaled-up fly-off, with "everyone a winner". 



On Friday, July 10, 2015 12:38 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Here's a clip of the first launch.
Sorry it took so long to get round to launching it... summer (not that you'd believe it in this video) holiday time nonsense taking over.
https://youtu.be/aJk5TM9QsJM

https://youtu.be/VTlcmpgknpk

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878


On 10 July 2015 at 16:10, Rod Read <rod.read@gmail.com


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18375 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Very nice, Rod. Do you think stacked rings can work as torque ladder if they are managed in gap making both compressing and tensioning? Perhaps yes by scaling up?

 

PierreB

 

 

 

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18376 From: dave santos Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked
An unsolicited opinion to Pierre-

Yes, quite large Daisy Bottles are possible, acting as a torque ladder (soft version of Harburg). Inherent limitations include high line-drag and low angular load-velocity. Launching, landing, and rigging complexity are open issues.



On Friday, July 10, 2015 1:12 PM, "Pierre BENHAIEM pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Very nice, Rod. Do you think stacked rings can work as torque ladder if they are managed in gap making both compressing and tensioning? Perhaps yes by scaling up?
 
PierreB
 
 
 
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18377 From: Rod Read Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked
Thanks Pierre and Dave S

Quite large? How large? The parametric relationships required to quantify that are still totally unknown. This turbine can scale.
From now, it will be very remiss, of any corporation, university or developer, serious about AWE, to continue ignoring this.

High Line drag is a nonsense... Line drag / area swept    or  line drag / kite    almost any line drag to performance metric you choose ... Line drag is way down as a proportion.
You're not wrong to criticise it... There's so, so much, I would do to improve on this prototype/proof model.
The rings could thin and profile more. The rings could inflate the kites to avoid spars. Line count could drop. Stitching could be so simple. . . .
The wings...

I like how you've added the word angular into ... low angular load-velocity Dave S ...  Q: What's the difference between the torque available on the tip of a rung and the torque available on the edge of a ring? What about at the root of a rung?
What's the angular load velocity of the worlds biggest or most powerful turbine?
Does angular load velocity have units? (angular velocity  x torque     is what you mean right?)

What was good about this test rig as compared to previous models, (apart from proving Daisy turbines can scale.)
was the lift line tension was always enough to prevent tangling / hockling. Everything was smoother running than with a single ring.
I was flying the lifter much higher ~120foot 40m... So when the lower air couldn't overcome the regen level asked of the motor and gearing ... today the kites just stalled and held ring shape in the slow wind... Then span again when powered enough... I'm very hopeful that this is a good sign for when I try working in a stronger wind.
I have a longer ladder available, so I might attach that for the next test to escape some more boundary layer profile on my spinners.

Yes Pierre,  I generally prefer rings instead of rungs... but both have their part to play.
Whilst I'm still slow sewing, rungs are easier for me to implement.




Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18378 From: Rod Read Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: GW-Scale Cross-Current Paravane-Cableway
Really like that.
The driving kite root control has a 2 way clutching mechanism...
 2 tubes / guides
root clamps onto one side of the line
the loop of line going the opposite way runs 2 x line speed through the non clutched side.
tooooooo simple

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18379 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Rod,

 

I want to say even soft rotating kite as ring.

 

PierreB

 

 

 

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18380 From: dave santos Date: 7/10/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked
Line drag is significantly parasitic to every AWES architecture except the IFO. Its agreed that line drag is mostly tolerable in low-velocity AWES, but a serious performance-limiting factor to fast rigid kiteplanes.

The torque-ladder's line drag was in mind when I judged the Daisy to suffer more line drag than pumping-kite schemes, but this is just heuristic logic not yet supported by testing or careful calculation.



On Friday, July 10, 2015 2:21 PM, "Pierre BENHAIEM pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Rod,
 
I want to say even soft rotating kite as ring.
 
PierreB
 
 
 
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18381 From: Rod Read Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

Pierre, I say yes, a totally soft Daisy architecture is possible.

Dave S, not only is the rotation still slow but the reduced diameter of travel of ladder tethers has them travelling really slow comparatively.
The IFO has a tether between 2 pods.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18382 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Lawrence Hargrave - a pioneer in aviation
Lawrence Hargrave - Hall of Fame Inductee 2012

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18383 From: dave santos Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Lawrence Hargrave - a pioneer in aviation
Twenty-six  years ago, Hargrave was the first named kite flyer in the World Kite Museum Hall of Fame, with Jalbert, the inventor of the revolutionary Parafoil just behind (in first-place, philosopher-engineer Mo Tzu goes unnamed; perhaps the greatest of all ancient Chinese figures)-

  • 1989 Dominia Jalbert, the American inventor of the parafoil and other soft kites.
  • 1989 Lawrence Hargrave‘s invention of the box kite in 1893 influenced wing design.
  • 1989 First Kite Flyer was first documented in China in the 4″ Century BC.






On Saturday, July 11, 2015 10:34 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18384 From: Rod Read Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked

I attempted a rushed test of the same kit this evening.
Don't rush rigging or tests.
How often do I have to learn that?
The rushing was due to the fact that I won't be able to test for the next month or so.
The rushing lead to untidy work, snags, twists and snaps... The wind abandoned me in disgrace.
A well tensioned lift line seems to be essential.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18385 From: dave santos Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked
Using a stretchy nylon braid upper-line will help Daisies cope with gusts and short lulls. For a looping foil, the line buffers the pilot kite from the pumping action, and for a Dasiy, the elastic storage effect can help maintain tension. A "snubber" can also be rigged as an inline bungee section, to add extra stretch in less length. Low-stretch polymer lines can suddenly fail by concentrating transient shock-forces that a Nylon line simply absorbs.

So good old Nylon continues to have a key role in rigging where low-stretch Dacron or super polymers like UHMWPE and Kevlar are counter-productive. Nylon is not too outstanding in any single critical factor (strength, toughness, cost, elasticity, UV, hydroscopy, etc), but is often a good trade-off across many factors. kPower preferentially uses Nylon leaders on large pilot-lifters for stabler ram-air inflation and flight.

Open-AWE_IP-Cloud



On Saturday, July 11, 2015 1:58 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
I attempted a rushed test of the same kit this evening.
Don't rush rigging or tests.
How often do I have to learn that?
The rushing was due to the fact that I won't be able to test for the next month or so.
The rushing lead to untidy work, snags, twists and snaps... The wind abandoned me in disgrace.
A well tensioned lift line seems to be essential.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18386 From: Rod Read Date: 7/11/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked
That probably would have helped during one or two of the short sharp lulls yesterday.
However I seemed to have a mismatch of lift tension and torque yesterday.
Everything was soaked, It was pouring rain. The tension in the lift line didn't need full force to clip and release.
You see in the previous video I'm putting a lot of body weight onto the line to unclip for launch... not yesterday.
The stacked Daisy did spin and drive the bike yesterday, despite a few blatant rigging faults (Not tied on the opposite side of the crank ooops)
I should work to a proper pre launch safety and checks routine. A quality control much as Ampyx have for their certification.


Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18387 From: dave santos Date: 7/12/2015
Subject: Re: Two rings stacked
We have to add more pilot-lift as we add more power wing, to optimally balance between stability and power elements. Its valuable to observe marginal conditions while finding our balanced settings..We are in fact empirically validating and solving differential-equations-of-motion governing our designs, as embodied computation, well before theoretic formalisms fully exist.



On Saturday, July 11, 2015 11:21 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
That probably would have helped during one or two of the short sharp lulls yesterday.
However I seemed to have a mismatch of lift tension and torque yesterday.
Everything was soaked, It was pouring rain. The tension in the lift line didn't need full force to clip and release.
You see in the previous video I'm putting a lot of body weight onto the line to unclip for launch... not yesterday.
The stacked Daisy did spin and drive the bike yesterday, despite a few blatant rigging faults (Not tied on the opposite side of the crank ooops)
I should work to a proper pre launch safety and checks routine. A quality control much as Ampyx have for their certification.


Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18388 From: edoishi Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Fort Felker to MakaniX
In a recent email from PJ Shepard I was surprised to read that Fort Felker is now general manager at Makani Power/GoogleX. Below linked is Fort's LinkenIn page which reveals that as of May 2015 he is general manager at Makani and no longer at NWTC. Interestingly, I could find no other direct references of this move on the internet. NWTC's webpage has not been updated since April 20. NREL's Wind research page (updated June 4th, 2015) has a flow chart* of NWTC personnel which lists Brian Smith as Acting Center Director. 

Well, that's a big smile he's wearing in his Makani sweatshirt...




* http://www.nrel.gov/wind/pdfs/nwtc_org_chart.pdf
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18389 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Power Harvesting Factor and maximisation of swept area

(Equations p.15 on :M. Diehl: Airborne Wind Energy: Basic Concepts and Physical Foundations, Airborne Wind Energy, Springer, 2013.)

 

The useful swept area is defined by the Power Harvesting Factor of kite. So for current soft wing and Makani  , Power Harvesting Factor is respectively 2.37 and 8 , gliding number is respectively 4 and 7.35 , swept area is respectively 4 times and 13.5 times wing area A. Nor figure-eight or loop use far more area than respectively 4 times and 13.5 times wing area A, the main reason being flight requirements.  

Please correct these rough estimations.

PierreB  


       






 

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18390 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

Interesting information.Makani Power has everything to succeed.


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18391 From: dave santos Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX
This is great news, but a lot has to happen to rescue Makani technically. A diagnostic aspect to this dramatic development is that Makani is farthest from "Fort's Rule" where an AWES needs to approach $5 per pound mass-cost structure, while the M600 is clearly closer to conventional aircraft costing around $500 per pound.

I interpret Fort's move very differently than Pierre. For Makani, its a sign of due-desperation for a long troubled program that only very late realized it needed real AE folks. For Fort, its a late-carreer chance to make far better money in the private-sector than government service, just as Cathy Zoi was lured from DOE to Makani. Its neither good public policy, nor good engineering-science.

Despite GoogleX NDA secrecy, its easy to suppose Fort is informing the kids just how far they are from succeeding with the poorly-scalable and overly-complex M600 AWES architecture so prematurely down-selected (and so hyped). Its possible Fort can finally broaden GoogleX's AWES R&D, but also quite likely he will have little practical effect, but just cash-in from the DOE-Makani gov-biz revolving door; as GoogleX generally continues without a single world-changing success yet.

The concurrent entry of Microsoft millions into AWE R&D is even bigger news. Expect a new era of furiously competitive US research far broader than Makani ever represented.





On Monday, July 13, 2015 7:24 AM, "pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Interesting information.Makani Power has everything to succeed.

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18392 From: Joe Faust Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX
Fort, diversify AWEwise!
Become an effective turning point for Google green!
Negotiate a broad deal with other AWE research centers!
Fort, hopefully they will let you lead.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18393 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

With such positive points limits in economical viability will be seen sooner.


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18394 From: dave santos Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX
Pierre,

Keep in mind that Makani "limits [to] economic viability" have been extensively and clearly reported here on the Forum (since 2009, within one day of the flying-wing flygen architecture being first announced).

Similarly, Fort's AWEC2010 conference presentation laid out basic AWE economics. These analyses remain valid; the key economic factors to AWE deployment have been long understood by AWE subject matter experts.

GoogleX will more likely only continue to suppress public knowledge of its poor economic viability factors, which really are well known here (excess capital-cost, high-risk, high-complexity, etc.),

daveS



On Monday, July 13, 2015 10:15 AM, "pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
With such positive points limits in economical viability will be seen sooner.

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18395 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

DaveS,

 

On the Forum yes but not yet in Google' circle.

 

PierreB

 

 

 

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18396 From: dave santos Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX
Pierre,

You have a foggy view of US AWE R&D, due to the distance and secrecy. In fact, Google's Makani circle was long well informed of its down-select risk via the AWES Forum (known to be followed by Makani), my own direct connections, and Fort's major presentation. Makani's founding engineers simply lacked the proper AE background to react technically. The founders were also unable to resist quick easy millions. In my hours of discussion with Corwin, we agreed on this; that Google big-money was toxic to technical due-diligence. Makani's hyped PR narrative was the driving force, and morale within lower ranks was dismal, with almost 100% turn-over.

We will see if Fort proves able to change Makani's direction, but it won't be easy, given the backwardness of the stealth-venture culture. Its not like Fort was able to shake up research within DOE. The same problems apply to EU AWE R&D, where capital, govt., secrecy, and hype count too much. Those making millions are well aware of the technical critiques, but unable to resist getting rich before solving AWE's challenges.

Open-knowledge is the merit-leader here, and the money factor is still secondary. AWE is a wonderful newborn field where anyone can study and fly constantly from passion and beat the investment-driven R&D efforts, just as the Wright Brothers did,

daveS



On Monday, July 13, 2015 11:08 AM, "Pierre BENHAIEM pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
DaveS,
 
On the Forum yes but not yet in Google' circle.
 
PierreB
 
 
 
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18397 From: benhaiemp Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX

DaveS,


Not quite. Makani does not have features (safety only by active control,  too heavy, too much risk of big crash, big tower to launch the wing, no maximisation of space, moving electric tethers...) to make a viable AWES, but it still remains the leader in working prototypes. So the best way to convince investors is to conceive a better design. Within Forum there is progress (Mothra, Daisy, Rotating Reeling...) enough to produce  such a design, and to confirm it by tests, simulations, studies, big prototypes...


PierreB

Rotating Reeling - AWEC 2015 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18398 From: dave santos Date: 7/13/2015
Subject: Re: Fort Felker to MakaniX
Pierre,

I cannot count Makani as a "leader in working prototypes". Several more practical teams have more powerful prototypes, not to mention safer cheaper designs. Makani has hardly tested any concepts, while I have done dozens of small working prototypes, of many kinds. You yourself (and Rod) have done better hands-on work than Makani. JoeF, Payne, Wayne German, and many others have all far out-thought Makani, who has not a single top creative AWE theorist to date.

Makani has only clearly led in money and hype, by a large margin. Never mind the PR illusion of protopype leadership; can anyone name an actual inventive-leap Makani ever gave the AWE world, to properly justify leadership status? 

daveS 







On Monday, July 13, 2015 12:50 PM, "pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
DaveS,

Not quite. Makani does not have features (safety only by active control,  too heavy, too much risk of big crash, big tower to launch the wing, no maximisation of space, moving electric tethers...) to make a viable AWES, but it still remains the leader in working prototypes. So the best way to convince investors is to conceive a better design. Within Forum there is progress (Mothra, Daisy, Rotating Reeling...) enough to produce  such a design, and to confirm it by tests, simulations, studies, big prototypes...

PierreB