Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 18249 to 18298 Page 259 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18249 From: Joe Faust Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Kite Drones

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18250 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Sewing a big enough kite

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18251 From: dave santos Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Sewing a big enough kite

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18252 From: Rod Read Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Kite Drones

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18253 From: Rod Read Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Can kite tidal and kite AWES mix

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18254 From: dave santos Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18255 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Kite Drones

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18256 From: dave santos Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Kite Drones

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18257 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18258 From: dave santos Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18259 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Torque

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18260 From: dave santos Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Kite Powered Electric Car Charging Stations

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18261 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18262 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18263 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18264 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18265 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18266 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: T'Sou-Ke Chief Gordon Planes speaks on AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18267 From: Rod Read Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18268 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18269 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18270 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18271 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18272 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Humanitarian-Relief AWE-Solar-Fossil Hybrids (summary of lessons)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18273 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18274 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/21/2015
Subject: Re: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18275 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/21/2015
Subject: Re: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18276 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/21/2015
Subject: AWE Documentary Short for AWEC 2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18277 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/21/2015
Subject: Re: Forum Preview of AWE Documentary Short for AWEC2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18278 From: dave santos Date: 6/21/2015
Subject: AD&C's Enerkite-ATALOG

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18279 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: KiteSailing (plus plain sailing and rowing) from Lewis to the Faerow

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18280 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: AD&C's Enerkite-ATALOG

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18281 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Secondary use

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18282 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Giant "Beanstock" Soft Stack Rig

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18283 From: Rod Read Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Re: KiteSailing (plus plain sailing and rowing) from Lewis to the Fa

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18284 From: Rod Read Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Re: Giant "Beanstock" Soft Stack Rig

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18285 From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: TALLER DE VENTAS UFSM, Tuesday, 23 June 2015

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18286 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Re: Giant "Beanstock" Soft Stack Rig

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18287 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Re: Secondary use

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18288 From: Joe Faust Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Re: Secondary use

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18289 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: French Ship-Kite Start-Up

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18290 From: dougselsam Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Re: Secondary use

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18291 From: dougselsam Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Re: French Ship-Kite Start-Up

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18292 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: ULimerick MMRC AWE R&D

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18293 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 6/23/2015
Subject: Re: Secondary use

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18294 From: Joe Faust Date: 6/23/2015
Subject: CN104204359A

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18295 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/23/2015
Subject: Re: ULimerick MMRC AWE R&D

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18296 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/23/2015
Subject: Re: French Ship-Kite Start-Up

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18297 From: dougselsam Date: 6/23/2015
Subject: Re: CN104204359A

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18298 From: Rod Read Date: 6/24/2015
Subject: close formation rotation by Whelk shell launching model



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18249 From: Joe Faust Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Kite Drones
www.KiteDrones.com
Welcome to the world of kite drones. 

============================
Mating with fertile energy wind--the Queen--, kite drones play an important part in forming progeny: next-gen energy and  good works. 
Kite drones form a sector of airborne wind energy systems (AWES) that are uninhabited and controlled with a mix of passive and active controls. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_(bee)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmanned_aerial_vehicle

Invest in kite drones:  kPower, Inc. 

Kite drones predominately use ambient wind's energy to drive or tract generators, pumps, vehicles, etc. to accomplish the production of energy or to perform good works. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18250 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Sewing a big enough kite

Making parts of giant kite as *blue tarp then assembling them in industrial mode?


PierreB


*Current blue or green tarp are 50 g/m² and until 12 m wide. Towards 50 m wide?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18251 From: dave santos Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Sewing a big enough kite
Rod,

I worked out the soft-shackle, kixel, rope-loadpath solution because I am scared silly of sewing machines (what if my anatomy got caught up? It would ruin the machine, and I would have to pay for it). I could not find the giant sewing loft as I think Dave Culp described to me, but its true that Texans raised lying to a high art-form (shooting those who lie too clumsily).

If the Texas machine is the World's largest, then maybe Dave Culp lied, not the Texan. I was unable to come up with a picture of the giant sewing machine loft described to me. Might not be the first time a non-Texan lied to a Mexican,

daveS








On Friday, June 19, 2015 9:28 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Maybe Dave since you like massive sewing machines so much you could recycle old wind turbines ..
Turning the towers into the arms of your new mechanical wonder.
Or you could instead realise the dimensional bonkersness of that argument in most other economic and engineering terms.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878


On 19 June 2015 at 17:18, Rod Read <rod.read@gmail.com


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18252 From: Rod Read Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Kite Drones
Joe,
your new site
kitedrones.com
doesn't yet include drones in it's method of kite launching....

launching ways

  • Structure that assist in the launching of a hang glider or aircraft or kite system

  • Methods of launching

  • launch off water into air       AWES7577

  • combinations of flight-and-submarine kite operations

  • v

  • v

  • v

You can add drone launch as suggested in this video.. https://youtu.be/Vwp2Kz_nkiU



Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18253 From: Rod Read Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Can kite tidal and kite AWES mix
It won't be optimal but I draw it similarly under water as in air.
(many turbines look v similar over and under)

https://youtu.be/_yL3x607pUc

This video shows a new method I propose utilising both an arch and ring kite gen set in a tidal flow.

open awes ip pool


Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18254 From: dave santos Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015
"Makani [told] IDTechEx that they will have a viable electricity generating business proposition for users within one to two years and profit for Makani some time later."


Commentary: Makani has already been hugely profitable to its founders, via the GoogleX buyout, and even an exclusive US ARPA-E subsidy. The technical claim of a "viable" product for end-users within even one year (or two) is not credible, given that Makani has never yet met its public time goals, does not even have a working full-scale prototype, and the glacial pace of making reliable large complex AE platforms. Nevertheless, Google has a knack for selling off its marginal R&D on a wave of hype, so the notion of profit is not far-fetched at all, just more marketing domination by the Google culture. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18255 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Kite Drones
It does now. Thanks, Rod. 



===================
Kite drones or drones may view a kite systems (including kite drones) by still or video or real-time cam.
Here is someone experimenting using a non-kite drone to view a kite system: 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18256 From: dave santos Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Kite Drones
another kite-drone mix-





On Friday, June 19, 2015 11:24 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
It does now. Thanks, Rod. 



===================
Kite drones or drones may view a kite systems (including kite drones) by still or video or real-time cam.
Here is someone experimenting using a non-kite drone to view a kite system: 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18257 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Indeed this on-grid claim is not credible: one more "next year".

AWE as tool of communication can be fatal in AWE as viable energy.


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18258 From: dave santos Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015
I don't think its logical to reject "one more year" claims in toto on the AWES Forum. After all, a true statement results if the claim is repeated every year, if the final year finally comes. This is a question of whether there is ever to be a final year. Its true, we have yet to see one, but I think some final years are well on the way. For example, KiteSat3 is really in an advanced state, so just one more year should do :)



On Friday, June 19, 2015 12:56 PM, "pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Indeed this on-grid claim is not credible: one more "next year".
AWE as tool of communication can be fatal in AWE as viable energy.

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18259 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Re: Torque
Corralejo 2012

 

 See the two long rotating kites.


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18260 From: dave santos Date: 6/19/2015
Subject: Kite Powered Electric Car Charging Stations
kPower presented a fast paced slide show on AWE at the Austin House of Genius that one of the panelists (name-tag- "Klaus"), opined that it was "the most mind-blowing and visionary presentation in four years [of sessions]". It was a bit awkward that the panelists where so stunned that they had a very hard time coming up with a reaction that had not been thought of yet. 

One tiny idea rose in my memory as a viable AWE niche market here-and-now; that one might set up on some remote stretch of highway with an AWES and a storage system and supply charge to the blossoming electric-car movement. I wish I could credit the young woman by name (will inquire) who raised the idea, which is not completely new, but the sudden opportunity is new. CC+ to her and kPower for this hint.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18261 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

Concerning on-grid by "viable electricity generating business", "next year" is unrealistic. From a correct basic architecture utility-scale can be assured several years (2 or 3) after implementing a small pilot-plant to test all elements in time, yet several years (5 to 10) to test in scale, so from 7 to 13 years before launching a serial production. From a not correct basic architecture , most (if no all in current listed companies) of those existing, serial production will never come.


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18262 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

A conventional wind turbine with 100 m² as blades area sweeps more or less 1000 m², generating 200 kW with wind speed = 10 m/s, 600 kW with wind speed = 14.423 m/s.

M600 area looks to be roughly 100 m². So it should produce also  200 kW for 10 m/s, and also 600 kW for 14.423 m/s. Indead old videos on smaller planes can confirm it, Makani winning on bigger area going fast but lossing by propellers as supplementary conversion system, as if tip end of blades of HAWT had small propellers.

To produce 600 kW with wind speed = 10 m/s, (L/D)² should be 3 times, L/D ratio being around 7 instead of 4 (after loss of speed by propellers), kite speed being 70 m/s, and tip speed of propellers being something like 280 m/s.

If wind is 14.423 m/s kite speed is 58 m/s (L/D ratio staying 4 after loss of speed by propellers), and tip speed of propellers something like 230 m/s, making some limits.

It is true also Makani can improve (and perhaps does it) ratio L/D for lower winds.

Tether being 500 m , land or sea use _ without possibility of secundary use due to problem of safety of a tethered heavy plane flying fast _ is near km², making it not viable economically. By considering an implementation in farm, each device for a square of 500 m aside, it is yet 1/4 km² by device (200 kW for 10 m/s): too much!

Morever public acceptability is not sure for a tethered heavy plane with propellers and going fast with big (by propellers above all) and variable noise.


PierreB



---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <pierre.benhaiem@...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18263 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015
Pierre,

For what its worth, Makani is claiming 90m/sec avg velocity, and there are many omitted and presumptive factors in your calculations (like base energetic cost to minimally maintain a kiteplane mass in flight (its zero-point energy).

I guess what you are trying to show is that the 600kW rating is not at all a realistic claim, but its hard to rigorously prove this supposed likelihood, and the actual test data must settle the doubts, in the absence of a sound AE predictive model. If only we had access to Makini's internal calculations, you would not need to struggle to duplicate their well-paid team efforts (including TUDelft contract work), 

daveS



On Saturday, June 20, 2015 8:03 AM, "pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
A conventional wind turbine with 100 m² as blades area sweeps more or less 1000 m², generating 200 kW with wind speed = 10 m/s, 600 kW with wind speed = 14.423 m/s.
M600 area looks to be roughly 100 m². So it should produce also  200 kW for 10 m/s, and also 600 kW for 14.423 m/s. Indead old videos on smaller planes can confirm it, Makani winning on bigger area going fast but lossing by propellers as supplementary conversion system, as if tip end of blades of HAWT had small propellers.
To produce 600 kW with wind speed = 10 m/s, (L/D)² should be 3 times, L/D ratio being around 7 instead of 4 (after loss of speed by propellers), kite speed being 70 m/s, and tip speed of propellers being something like 280 m/s.
If wind is 14.423 m/s kite speed is 58 m/s (L/D ratio staying 4 after loss of speed by propellers), and tip speed of propellers something like 230 m/s, making some limits.
It is true also Makani can improve (and perhaps does it) ratio L/D for lower winds.
Tether being 500 m , land or sea use _ without possibility of secundary use due to problem of safety of a tethered heavy plane flying fast _ is near km², making it not viable economically. By considering an implementation in farm, each device for a square of 500 m aside, it is yet 1/4 km² by device (200 kW for 10 m/s): too much!
Morever public acceptability is not sure for a tethered heavy plane with propellers and going fast with big (by propellers above all) and variable noise.

PierreB


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <pierre.benhaiem@...


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18264 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015

90 m/s. So I have to correct my previous post. 600 kW looks possible. That means Makani improved L/D ratio of its kite. But tip speed of blades of propellers could be too high.


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18265 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015
Well Rod thinks 90m/s is a max (never exceed) velocity, but that seems low to me.

The main point is how uncertain partial calculations with poor data are.



On Saturday, June 20, 2015 11:01 AM, "pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
90 m/s. So I have to correct my previous post. 600 kW looks possible. That means Makani improved L/D ratio of its kite. But tip speed of blades of propellers could be too high.

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18266 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: T'Sou-Ke Chief Gordon Planes speaks on AWE
Apparently Chief Planes is in the low-complexity hands-on DIY open-AWE camp. Liberated from Rod's rough notes-

"Chief Gordon Planes
T'Sou-Ke [First Nation]
Light footprint, respect for mother earth, next 7 generations, respect knowledge keepers.. Will use hands on equipment ... doesn't need fully automatic.
Naut' Sa-mawt  All is one    local practical ingenuity"
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18267 From: Rod Read Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015
Rod said nothing of the sort.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18268 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: GoogleX-Makani's latest market claim from AWEC2015
Rod wrote:"[M600] wing can fly at 90m/s", citing Damon in conference notes.

Rod's mad because I also leaked Chief Plane's noble thoughts from those extensive (but garbled) conference notes. In defense; "we don't need stinking NDAs" in open-AWE.

 



On Saturday, June 20, 2015 2:27 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Rod said nothing of the sort.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18269 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18270 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project
more background






On Saturday, June 20, 2015 5:08 PM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18271 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project

A photovoltaic hydrogen balloon, nice. Photovoltaic membrane on (soft for more area with photovoltaic) kite system can double the production.


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18272 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Humanitarian-Relief AWE-Solar-Fossil Hybrids (summary of lessons)
Over the years the AWES Forum has led exploration of  AWE fundamentals and the humanitarian applications aspect. The following practical principles emerged-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18273 From: dave santos Date: 6/20/2015
Subject: Re: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project
As noted in the past, hydrogen is explosive or complex to handle (and a potent green-house gas that only leaks away, limiting global use). Humanitarian disasters hardly need compounded risk. Helium is safe, but expensive, heavy, and bulky to supply compressed in steel tanks that would need to be returned.

Also noted is that solar cells rob kite performance by added mass, so nighttime AWE performance, for example, would suffer badly. There is also a mismatch of kite orientation and sun most of time, and the kite and solar feature would be non-COTS or even more sub-optimal if cheap COTS units were used to create a crudely integrated design.

See parallel summary of related Forum lessons post for more info.



On Saturday, June 20, 2015 5:54 PM, "pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
A photovoltaic hydrogen balloon, nice. Photovoltaic membrane on (soft for more area with photovoltaic) kite system can double the production.

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18274 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/21/2015
Subject: Re: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project
It would be better to implement photovoltaic membrane on the roofs of shelters (UNHCR), avoiding hydrogen, avoiding the time to make it, and winning space, for an immediately available energy.  Zéphyr Solar, un cerf-volant photovoltaïque à l'aide des populations sinistrées

 PierreB

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18275 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/21/2015
Subject: Re: Times of India reports humanitarian kite energy design project
Des tentes « Développement durable » pour les opérations extérieures as example

 

 PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18276 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/21/2015
Subject: AWE Documentary Short for AWEC 2015

AWE Documentary Short for AWEC 2015

A brief panorama.


PierreB 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18277 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/21/2015
Subject: Re: Forum Preview of AWE Documentary Short for AWEC2015

Sorry for my topic today about this video mentioned previously on the present topic.


PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18278 From: dave santos Date: 6/21/2015
Subject: AD&C's Enerkite-ATALOG
AD&C is German aviation solution provider under contract with Enerkite (link below image). The wing concept they propose seems to have almost no yaw-authority, nor can it turn smartly by elevon roll-pitch input (unless a pulley bridle is adopted) with the span-loaded bridles shown in various Enerkite media. Enerkite (like Makani before, with its ill-fated flying wing series) is unresponsive to public and email suggestions to add balanced vertical area ("kite keel") for better yaw stability and control. More crashes, and even a decidedly unflyable AWES wing are likely. Complex kite flight dynamics seems to be a gap in AD&C's apparent competencies. From the website-
AD & C involvement:
  • Structural load assumptions, interpretation
  • Construction (SolidWorks)
  • Analysis (FEMAP), structural tests
  • Prototype (BEEP)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18279 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: KiteSailing (plus plain sailing and rowing) from Lewis to the Faerow
Happened three years ago; maybe Rod knew of this voyage-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18280 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: AD&C's Enerkite-ATALOG
For back-reference, this is Makani's old flying wing, held stable by four spread tethers to four surface-anchors, showing simultaneously the principle of kite arch-dome stability, but also a lack of forward keel area for dynamic yaw-authority, better tracking, and static balance at the kite window edge. Its been conjectured that without the spread tethers Makani was unable to avoid crashing this wing (an ex-engineer's resume provided a clue to the crash scenario (something like "tested to the limit"), and Makani next adopted a design with extensive forward vertical keel surface. SInce Makani does not share AWES test-crash data, Enerkite-ATALOG may not have "gotten the memo"-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18281 From: benhaiemp Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Secondary use

Maximization of land can be still insufficient. So AWES could include some automated equipments for farming or fishing. See also Joe's topic about "shadow", trying to observe incidence of shadow on cultures.


PierreB 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18282 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Giant "Beanstock" Soft Stack Rig
After a couple of kitemares trying to integrate stacked Peter Lynn pilot kites with kPower's tail-kill system, a new rigging strategy emerged. The problem was that each kite in the previous stacks was free to loop independently, which sooner or later resulted in fowling the tail-kill line. 

The new design cuts apart the inter-kite bridle points to instead rig straight loadpaths up along the sides and front of the stack, Thus all the kites resist looping better together, and if they loop*, they loop together. No single kite can loop on its own. A second rigging change is to rig a separate kill line from any tails added. Progressive deployment of packed kites and furling are operational goals. The new bridles will taper by sections to match local tension values.

This new rig is the intended solution for soon going to 2000ft with six 22m2 PL pilots at the Warm Springs UAS Test Range, with aggregated payload lift of about 600kg created on one line. Flying a dome that high would be too much anchor-spread to start with. The initial target application, based on regional need, is bambi-bucket operation for wildfire fighting, using taglines to the bucket. Human lifting and aerotecture support are also under evaluation (Open-AWE IP Cloud)

The configuration of stacked soft pilot-kites is dubbed a Beanstock, after the famous fairy-tale. This stack of Flexi power kites suggests the basic rigging idea here, since no pilot parafoil stack rigged this way was readily found online-

Image result for flexifoil stacker

* All SLKs eventually loop as rising wind and symmetry-breaking overcome pendulum stability.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18283 From: Rod Read Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Re: KiteSailing (plus plain sailing and rowing) from Lewis to the Fa
That's ridiculous and brilliant... I have only the very vaguest recollection of that.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18284 From: Rod Read Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: Re: Giant "Beanstock" Soft Stack Rig
I wonder could you explian..
The new bridles will taper by sections to match local tension values.
with a drawing please?

You wrote that...
Flying a dome that high would be too much anchor-spread to start with.
A really tall arch with spread stabilisation only just wider than unit kite width will still be advantageous.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18285 From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com Date: 6/22/2015
Subject: TALLER DE VENTAS UFSM, Tuesday, 23 June 2015
Attachments :
    "TALLER DE VENTAS UFSM" reminder
    When
    Tuesday, 23 June 2015
    12:00 AM to 12:00 AM
    (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London
    From
    AirborneWindEnergy   Calendar
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18286 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
    Subject: Re: Giant "Beanstock" Soft Stack Rig
    The idea is that an optimal kite stack needs thicker lines lower down, since the kite tension adds up the more kites given line segment has to support. This has been drawn repeatedly in defensive disclosure drawings, with thicker lines drawn for lower sections.

    The kPower beanstock proposed is a sort of downwind arch case already, with a separate mainline and tail-kill line. With runaway risk already mitigated, going to three lines in order to set a crosswind A-frame tether-arch increases cost, complexity, and delay; so the benefits have to be proportionally greater. A narrow arch might be just the thing for redundancy in kite altitude record attempts above 10km high, where a tail-kill line is not in use.



    On Monday, June 22, 2015 11:12 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    I wonder could you explian..
    The new bridles will taper by sections to match local tension values.
    with a drawing please?

    You wrote that...
    Flying a dome that high would be too much anchor-spread to start with.
    A really tall arch with spread stabilisation only just wider than unit kite width will still be advantageous.

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18287 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
    Subject: Re: Secondary use
    kPower set a milestone in 2013-14 by operating Mortha and other large AWES kites on crosswind cableways, in the same field as normal hay farm operatons, with AWE testing and hay mowing and bailing taking place at the same time, without undue risk or bother.

    In principle, optimal megascale AWES designs will someday operate over even dense urban regions, with close analogy to common airliner operations over populations, and further enhanced by NextGen airspace performance.



    On Monday, June 22, 2015 9:25 AM, "pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Maximization of land can be still insufficient. So AWES could include some automated equipments for farming or fishing. See also Joe's topic about "shadow", trying to observe incidence of shadow on cultures.

    PierreB 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18288 From: Joe Faust Date: 6/22/2015
    Subject: Re: Secondary use
    For some organic cultures: I am guessing that some sun shadowing could be wanted; sometimes too much sun may harm the happy growth of some plants and animals.  I see shade frequently!   I often enjoy the passing cloud to give respite from the sun. Too much sun might dry out a crop or burn the crop too fast. Plants from the plant store often have labels that describe just how much sun and shade are best for a particular species. 
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18289 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
    Subject: French Ship-Kite Start-Up


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18290 From: dougselsam Date: 6/22/2015
    Subject: Re: Secondary use
    Yeah and if you move up to the high desert, it becomes apparent that up here, even "full-sun" plants do much better in the shade.  It is too high up here (brighter sunlight), too dry, a cloudy day is rare, and clouds never stick around for a whole day.  At 10% humidity and 100 degrees farenheit, a 30 mph wind will dry out any plant in less than an hour.  Most plants that grow well in Los Angeles will die up here.  Any shade is good shade, in the vast and godfersaken desert!
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18291 From: dougselsam Date: 6/22/2015
    Subject: Re: French Ship-Kite Start-Up
    Translation from Google:

    Project

    beyond the sea or ® Innovation for the planet.

    Yves Parlier, navigator internationally recognized for his sports results in the most prestigious races in the wide, develops with his team since 2007, a truly innovative project in the purest respect for the environment. This project traction kite, coming straight from the Kitesurf technology aims to use the wind as the only source of energy. Exploiting the potential of French researchers, we are building a great team of women and men and competent motivated. We also develop strategic research partnerships with prestigious engineering schools, professional kite, or sea, all geared towards Innovation Manager. The scope of the traction kite is wide: from the merchant marine to yachting, through fishing or security beyond the sea ® open new opportunities for those who practice the sea This solution will be.. revolutionary from the standpoint of the environment as security and the economy, combining multiple advantages that make it a compelling solution for vessels of all sizes.

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18292 From: dave santos Date: 6/22/2015
    Subject: ULimerick MMRC AWE R&D
    Piecing together scattered content for ULimerick AWES R&D, with little known yet. They contributed a Springer AWE book chapter for pumping with one-way gen operation (common kPower practice), are part of AWESCO, but a detailed view into their prototype work would be nice to add to our files.

    Looking for this paper: J. Coleman, H. Ahmad, E. Pican, D. Toal: "Modelling of a synchronous offshore pumping mode airborne wind energy farm". International Journal of Energy, Vol. 71, 569-578, 2014

    Other links-


    old partial news-
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18293 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 6/23/2015
    Subject: Re: Secondary use

    Over towns...Why not for the 4th generation. For it some scenario: implementation in desert, then cultures, shading helping, then a new town (between arch or between circular track of Parotor)...

     

    PierreB

     

     

     

     
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18294 From: Joe Faust Date: 6/23/2015
    Subject: CN104204359A
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18295 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/23/2015
    Subject: Re: ULimerick MMRC AWE R&D




    Additional information on the research already performed at University of Limerick can be found in:

    J. Coleman, H. Ahmad, E. Pican, D. Toal "Non-Reversing Generators in a Novel Design for Pumping Mode Airborne Wind Energy Farm ". In: U. Ahrens, M. Diehl, R. Schmehl (eds.) "Airborne Wind Energy". Springer, Heidelberg, 2013.    PDF

    J. Coleman, H. Ahmad, E. Pican, D. Toal: "Modelling of a synchronous offshore pumping mode airborne wind energy farm". International Journal of Energy, Vol. 71, 569-578, 2014.  

    E. Pican, E. Omerdic, D. Toal, M. Leahy: "Analysis of Parallel Connected Synchronous Generators in a Novel Offshore Windfarm Model". Energy 36, pp.6387-6397, 2011.

    E. Pican, E. Omerdic, D. Toal, M. Leahy: "Direct Interconnection of Offshore Electricity Generators", Energy, 36 (3) 1543-1553, 2011.
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18296 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 6/23/2015
    Subject: Re: French Ship-Kite Start-Up
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18297 From: dougselsam Date: 6/23/2015
    Subject: Re: CN104204359A
    That is one I always wondered could work as a perpetual motion machine.
    More energy out from hydroelectric power than it takes to cool the condenser coils...
    You guys have all thought of this one before, right? ... right?
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 18298 From: Rod Read Date: 6/24/2015
    Subject: close formation rotation by Whelk shell launching model
    Lets model a kite on the whelk.
    (It will have scale limits likely due to unfurling equipment if you choose it.)
    Wind is coming toward you from the picture.
    This is a simple model which unfurls a potentially very large rotary kite from 1 drum.

    If wanted or needed attach a lift kite swivel / bearing to the apex.
    We need large slot holes in the whorls, it's prohibitively solid to wind without.

    Whelk kite model may not be the best balanced rotary system so...
    The whelk model may be used as a launching cap for further lower down sets of parallel ring kites with even torque profiles around the lift line.

    I propose using unfurling battens (flattens type, rolling measuring tape alike) as the leading edge of the ribs being a driving kite/sail.
    The drive sail unfurling mech are set on a grand suture spiral.

    Full length suture uncoiling  can be progressively released from the bottom with 1 drum holding many bridle lines.
    If sewn with striations (thin inter sail lines) to maintain sail to sail formation distance, Then unfurling sails on the suture main coil line might be prohibited.
    To avoid this if the full suture coil is rolled axially then furling of the full set of sails with striation lines can continue.

    In the strongest winds the bottom side winch drum pulls all tethering, thus progressively shortening the height the spiral is stretched to.
    As such when the coil re-gathers the furling reefs and less sail is presented to wind.

    This system has the advantage that only when enough lift is presented on the lift line will enough torque be available from the driving kites.

     
    www.buythesea-bymail.co.uk/babylon-whelk-shell-3887-p.asp                                                         www.austenvariations.com/gifts-by-the-shore-part-4-by-marilyn-brant

    Of the above two photos ... cut away all of the white material, being only left with dark soft material ... which is the more likely solidity for your application speed?
    Can the lowest end of the whorl be shrunk to improve balance of rotary forces?


    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878