Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 17444 to 17494 Page 243 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17444 From: Christian Harrell Date: 4/8/2015
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17445 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2015
Subject: Re: Proper Usage of "Wind Tower" in AWE?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17446 From: Rod Read Date: 4/8/2015
Subject: Re: Daisy Launch, Reliability and power improvements

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17447 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2015
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17448 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2015
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17449 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2015
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17450 From: dougselsam Date: 4/8/2015
Subject: Re: Proper Usage of "Wind Tower" in AWE?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17451 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/8/2015
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17452 From: Rod Read Date: 4/9/2015
Subject: Re: Proper Usage of "Wind Tower" in AWE?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17453 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2015
Subject: Re: Kite-farm Launch, Land, Resource-Extender, Land-area-saver

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17454 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2015
Subject: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17455 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2015
Subject: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17456 From: Rod Read Date: 4/9/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17457 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17458 From: Rod Read Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17459 From: Rod Read Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17460 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17461 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17462 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17463 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17464 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17465 From: dougselsam Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: Kite-farm Launch, Land, Resource-Extender, Land-area-saver

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17466 From: dougselsam Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17467 From: dougselsam Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17468 From: dougselsam Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17469 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: Kite-farm Launch, Land, Resource-Extender, Land-area-saver

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17470 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17471 From: Rod Read Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17472 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17473 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17474 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: Inside Minesto || Magnus Landberg

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17475 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: Inside Minesto || Magnus Landberg

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17476 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2015
Subject: Re: Inside Minesto || Magnus Landberg

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17477 From: Rod Read Date: 4/11/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17478 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/11/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17479 From: dave santos Date: 4/11/2015
Subject: Aerotecture Tether Eye-Splicing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17480 From: Rod Read Date: 4/11/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17481 From: Rod Read Date: 4/11/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17482 From: dave santos Date: 4/11/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17483 From: Rod Read Date: 4/11/2015
Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17484 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/11/2015
Subject: Re: John V. Mizzi

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17485 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/11/2015
Subject: Re: Kite-farm Launch, Land, Resource-Extender, Land-area-saver

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17486 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/11/2015
Subject: Re: Kite-farm Launch, Land, Resource-Extender, Land-area-saver

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17488 From: gordon_sp Date: 4/12/2015
Subject: UNIVERSAL JOINTS

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17489 From: dave santos Date: 4/12/2015
Subject: Re: UNIVERSAL JOINTS [1 Attachment]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17490 From: dave santos Date: 4/12/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17491 From: Rod Read Date: 4/13/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17492 From: dave santos Date: 4/13/2015
Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17493 From: dougselsam Date: 4/13/2015
Subject: Einstein's sourround-sound system

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17494 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2015
Subject: "Felker's Challenge (large-scale wind powered aviation platform at $




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17444 From: Christian Harrell Date: 4/8/2015
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
Attachments :
    Thanks Joe, 

    The information is very good, I just wish there was more,
    I couldn't find The Ultimate Sailing anywhere so I bought the issue of scientific american, I hope it shows up soon. 
    Inline image 2
    Does this remind you of anything? Simply amazing work and his forty page essay isnt posted anywhere online!
    I hope I got the right issue! 

    Thanks Joe

    Christian


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17445 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2015
    Subject: Re: Proper Usage of "Wind Tower" in AWE?

    "Wind Tower" is not a "slur" (compare with Doug's compulsive name-calling habits), but it is a COTS economic unit in wind-tech, with a high capital-cost structure, negative site impact, and severe altitude limitation that AWE aspires to avoid.

    We are against the shortcomings of the wind tower, but we are not necessarily against the wind turbine per se. That is why its most-precise to identify AWE's potential to supplant "wind towers" with AWES, even if finally embrace turbine designs, based on engineering test results. 

    Let  the IEEE editorial standard stand here in the AWES Forum, in accepting the "wind tower" usage in our AWE context; given only Doug is known to object, and folks must be free to post in their own words..



    On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 8:44 AM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    daveS said: "Here on the Forum, this use of "wind towers" has been common correct usage for years, with only Doug suddenly objecting" *** I think you are the only one using the term to describe the entire turbine/tower, and it seems derogatory in nature, like a slur.  As your examples show, it is always used in a negative context.  It seems that you want to pretend that "Wind Tower", to describe a turbine ON a tower, is standard usage, where it is not.  Typical newbie stuff, fixating on one aspect of vocabulary, denigrating what's known to work, trying to obfuscate the subject by applying inappropriate labels.


    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17446 From: Rod Read Date: 4/8/2015
    Subject: Re: Daisy Launch, Reliability and power improvements

    Yes phase tension over pointy wing meshes as well as having inter ring inflation strips sew on the trailing edge of the tether to the upwind ring.
    Tension can be added through misalignment or offset inducing roller.

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17447 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2015
    Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
    Hi Christian,

    Here is a copy of a DIY HAPA (chien d'mer) message I shared with AYRS a few days ago, given the topic again came up here. It presents yet another school of thought, and Luc d'Armant's kite-paravane work should especially delight you, once you get the link to that,

    Daves

    ---------- ---------- Original Message 
    From: "dave santos santos137@yahoo.com [Ayrs]" <Ayrs @ yahoogroups.com  
    Thanks Joe, 

    The information is very good, I just wish there was more,
    I couldn't find The Ultimate Sailing anywhere so I bought the issue of scientific american, I hope it shows up soon. 
    Inline image 2
    Does this remind you of anything? Simply amazing work and his forty page essay isnt posted anywhere online!
    I hope I got the right issue! 

    Thanks Joe

    Christian


    On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:25 AM, joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


      @@attachment@@
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17448 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2015
    Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
    Attachments :
      Whoa,

      Some sort of translate feature seemingly switched-on and badly garbled the text in previous message; please let me know if text bugs occurred in your copies, and I will resend,

      daveS

       






      On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 4:55 PM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com  
      Thanks Joe, 

      The information is very good, I just wish there was more,
      I couldn't find The Ultimate Sailing anywhere so I bought the issue of scientific american, I hope it shows up soon. 
      Inline image 2
      Does this remind you of anything? Simply amazing work and his forty page essay isnt posted anywhere online!
      I hope I got the right issue! 

      Thanks Joe

      Christian


      On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:25 AM, joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com




        @@attachment@@
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17449 From: dave santos Date: 4/8/2015
      Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
      Attachments :
        Hope this fixes the text-

        To
        AYRS Yahoo Group
        Mar 31
        A cruising yacht's dinghy could be rigged to serve as a skycar (gondola) for an "instant" HAPA yacht. Choose whatever sort of large power or lifting kite combination works best for you, but the idea is to fly your kites from aloft in the dinghy skycar, while also controlling the helm of the yacht below. The dinghy would serve as ready means for launching and landing on the water, with the kites even buddy launching and landing dry from the yacht deck. Endless rigging refinements are possible, just line and a few hardware odds and ends. If yachting in the sky is properly mastered to an appropriate level of safety (like knowing how to skydive), such a skycar could reach considerable altitudes, in fantastic style.

        Large power kites, like tandem paramotor parfoils, could tow a fairly large yacht smartly. Even more stable kites (not under constant steering control) can work. Large stable pilot kites can do the job making good to windward with only a modest tacking range, esp. with a high lift racing hull below (kite traction need only be a bit forward of abeam Cp, as Pocock taught). A key pilot-lifter requirement is to be able to easily progressively kill or spoil the kites to come down, rather than haul down by winch. Lately I have been killing my stack of 22m2 Peter Lynn pilot-lifters merely by paying out the main kite line under high tension (thru a climber's "eight"), so the added tail-kill line then passively tenses up. This tail-kill line runs down to the skycar or anchor-point and is an ideal line to fly all sorts of traditional and modern ensigns, adding kite-tail stability to the stack, to match strong conditions. Once can even pull the kite in to base fast by this line, to avoid a wet kite (deck ape work).

        This Spring, I'll be testing a static rigs (anchored on land) with skycar sailing properties, just as safely as I can, before venturing "to sea" (Laguna Madre, Texas). One pending test of many is to fly a large symmetric spinnaker from a sock under a pilot-kite, rather than a masthead. Old spinnakers are pennies per square foot and the sky is another ocean to sail, like Winkin, Blinkin, and Nod :)

        dave santos





        On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 5:06 PM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com  
        Thanks Joe, 

        The information is very good, I just wish there was more,
        I couldn't find The Ultimate Sailing anywhere so I bought the issue of scientific american, I hope it shows up soon. 
        Inline image 2
        Does this remind you of anything? Simply amazing work and his forty page essay isnt posted anywhere online!
        I hope I got the right issue! 

        Thanks Joe

        Christian


        On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:25 AM, joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com






          @@attachment@@
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17450 From: dougselsam Date: 4/8/2015
        Subject: Re: Proper Usage of "Wind Tower" in AWE?
        DaveS said: "Let  the IEEE editorial standard stand here in the AWES Forum, in accepting the "wind tower" usage in our AWE context; given only Doug is known to object," *** Doug replies: So you are going to stop calling wind turbines "windtowers" then?  Saying I object to calling towers towers is the typical way you try to twist my own words backwards, and rewrite history as its exact opposite, always seeking to redefine words.  No daveS, it is YOU who misused the term, not me.  Nice try, as always.  Roddy, if you are the referee, Dave is down on the mat, pinned again.
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17451 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/8/2015
        Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

        Ultimate Sailing: Introducing the Hapa : a Study in the Application of Underwater Kites

        Front Cover
        Amateur Yacht Research Society, 1993 - Sailboats - 68 pages
        ========================================================
        Attached is a clip from Theodore's article.


          @@attachment@@
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17452 From: Rod Read Date: 4/9/2015
        Subject: Re: Proper Usage of "Wind Tower" in AWE?
        Doug, you're both fixating on vocabulary.
        It a friggin stick. contextualise it when you talk about it...
        I don't think at any point has there been ambiguity in context with what Dave S was describing.
        It's a boring fight, two sloggers lamely hugging, barely able to lift an arm.
        ding a ling

        Rod Read

        Windswept and Interesting Limited
        15a Aiginis
        Isle of Lewis
        UK
        HS2 0PB

        07899057227
        01851 870878


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17453 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2015
        Subject: Re: Kite-farm Launch, Land, Resource-Extender, Land-area-saver
        This is a huge but doable technological frontier, to master planetary-scale free-space with string, starting on the human scale. We can even begin contemplating creation of a sort of planetary Dyson Sphere across Earth's atmosphere and seas, of super-strong polymer lattice far less dense, on average, than the latest benchtop-scale aerogel, but able to transform civilization. Our UHMWPE lattice-mesh concepts are inherently suited to amazing megascale feats, like flying megalopoli, and redistributing kinetic energy, even at  
        Have a wide-mesh net stretched over a patch of land. Use node supports as wished. Let kite-energy systems launch from, land, rest, etc. on the patch-covering wide-mesh net.  Tethers and sails stay almost completely sky-side of the patch-covering net. Farming and other activities continue as needed on the soil side of the broad patch-covering net. Low-mass secondary uses of the broad net may be employed (say, hang clothes to dry; hang posters; hang bird nests, hang swings, hang manufactured things to dry, hand vines for growing fruits and vegetables, hang WECs from the net; hang solar-energy devices from the net, have transport vehicles hanging from the kite-field broad-raised net system, etc.).    We have already had some launch and passive self-relaunch notes share in forum by the use of perimeter high lines to drape sails ready for working in AWES.     IsoDome AWES may consider self-storage atop a farm broad-patch raised net. The systems of such raised net permit safe operation of many human living and commercial activity.   

        CC BY NC SA   kPower, Inc.    See us for easy license to use such net tech for kite-energy systems.


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17454 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2015
        Subject: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte
        Congratulations to Assistant Professor Chris Vermillion-

        “Renewable energy research is alive and well at UNC Charlotte and, in the Vermillion lab, cutting-edge airborne wind-energy research is on the rise,” Vermillion said. “This is the only platform in the world – at such a small scale – that replicates both the flight dynamics and the control of airborne wind-energy system lifting bodies.”


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17455 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2015
        Subject: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
        kPower just ordered four more 22m2 PLPL's in FAA colors, for a total of six, for a total area of 132m2. The factory agreed to add tail-kill attachment loops at no extra cost, eliminating the custom modification.

        These kites will be rigged into three stacks to create a quasi-iso lifting "tripod" for manned aerotecture experiments, as an arch for lofting a motley array of WECS for AWEfest, as a grunty six-stack to 2000ft for FAA test range trials, and so on. A pending session will fly a large standard spinnaker sail from a sock device hung under PLPLs, showing COTS control of high-area wide-ratio changes of CL and CD.

        kPower's growing wind-based lifting capability is offered at low cost to any R&D team wishing to do AWES validation experiments at altitude,  safely and confidently, without dependence on LTA gas or complex flight automation.
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17456 From: Rod Read Date: 4/9/2015
        Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
        Oh like the sound of the CL CD variance test proposal.
        Sounds like we should be watching out for a sky gulper.

        Rod Read

        Windswept and Interesting Limited
        15a Aiginis
        Isle of Lewis
        UK
        HS2 0PB

        07899057227
        01851 870878


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17457 From: dave santos Date: 4/9/2015
        Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
        Thank Rob Creighton for the open challenge to show an AWES soft wing can effectively vary CL and CD widely, according to its pumping-recovery phase-state. My contribution is to be so lazy and cheap, only used COTS will do to maybe ace the case. Soon we will see.

        A Spinnaker Sock douses more like slurping than gulping. One generally releases the clews first, to deflate, and the kite slithers right into the sock with little resistance, by either or both the halyard or sock tagline. To inflate, reverse the action. Its TRL9, for sure, and the innovation is to replace the sailboat masthead with kite pilot-lift, as CC+ Open-AWE IP-Pool state-of-the-art.



        On Thursday, April 9, 2015 3:22 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
        Oh like the sound of the CL CD variance test proposal.
        Sounds like we should be watching out for a sky gulper.

        Rod Read

        Windswept and Interesting Limited
        15a Aiginis
        Isle of Lewis
        UK
        HS2 0PB

        07899057227
        01851 870878



        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17458 From: Rod Read Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

        Considering the lift as the roof of a mouth. Overall I imagine a gulp swallow. Don't get caught up in any gag reflexes. Both in Kite or language use cases.

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17459 From: Rod Read Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: instructions on instructables
        It's a lot to take in for a casual kite builder or weekend project tinkerer.


        Rod Read

        Windswept and Interesting Limited
        15a Aiginis
        Isle of Lewis
        UK
        HS2 0PB

        07899057227
        01851 870878

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17460 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte

        That news article seems to fix Vermillion lab into flygen.

        "Airborne wind-energy systems, which fly at altitudes up to 2,000 feet, are meant to replace traditional wind turbines. These wind-energy systems vary in size and shape but generally include a sizeable lifting body, or vessel, that houses a turbine. "     [My bolding and font sizing.]    


        Chris, is that so? Are you fixed into flygen research?


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17461 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte

        Christopher Vermillion | Mechanical Engineering and Engineering Science | UNC Charlotte

         

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17462 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17463 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte

        Hi Joe,

             Thanks for the note of congrats!

         

        Right now, my research lab is set up to model (in the water channel) the dynamics and control of any airborne wind system that uses a rigid lifting body, regardless of whether the generator is in the air or on the ground…for control, we are presently limited to tether actuation. We’re interested in expanding the lab capabilities to accommodate flexible lifting bodies and ultimately incorporate control surface actuation, but these goals, particularly the latter, will take some time.

         

        The quote in the article about the lifting body housing the turbine really has more to do with a reporter for the newspaper not fully grasping the breadth of airborne wind energy systems after our short conversation – which is understandable, given that we only had about 30 minutes to chat. But in any case, I’m interested in both ground-gen and fly-gen systems. Of course, my background and current collaborations are with Altaeros, so that has focused our lab more on fly-gen systems.

         

        Hope that answers your question,

         

        Chris




        ---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <joefaust333@gmail.com
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17464 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17465 From: dougselsam Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: Kite-farm Launch, Land, Resource-Extender, Land-area-saver
        "DaveS said: "flying megalopoli" *** Good name for a band...  "redistributing kinetic energy, even at do keep-it-real" ***Good slogan for Euro AWE: keeping it reel...
        "we progress nicely by little more than modest means and playful spirit." *** That I agree with, and so does my dog.  :)

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17466 From: dougselsam Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
        Are these kites about 20 feet x 10 feet, or more square in shape like 13 feet x 13 feet?  How much weight do you reckon each could reliably lift, taking into account occasional lulls?
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17467 From: dougselsam Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
        Nice haircut
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17468 From: dougselsam Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: NSF Funded AWES Research gearing up at UNCCharlotte
        Journalists typically relate a partial story, based on their 3rd party incomplete impression, as anyone who has had an article written about them or their work can attest.  You're lucky if they spell your name right, and if so, it's all good.  Flygen or groundgen reminds me of asking someone with a Maserati if it is front engine or rear engine, whereas the answer is "mid-engine"
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17469 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: Kite-farm Launch, Land, Resource-Extender, Land-area-saver
        The Mach10 prediction is well based; that some power can be transmitted at the astounding maximum internal speed of sound of UHMWPE, but not that max velocity is optimal, nor the effective distances in reach (20k would be nice); findings that must emerge by successful testing, if at all.

        With regard to such astounding possibilities, a dog may in fact have the more reasonable open attitude than its jaded master.





        On Friday, April 10, 2015 2:14 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
        "DaveS said: "flying megalopoli" *** Good name for a band...  "redistributing kinetic energy, even at do keep-it-real" ***Good slogan for Euro AWE: keeping it reel...
        "we progress nicely by little more than modest means and playful spirit." *** That I agree with, and so does my dog.  :)



        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17470 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
        Rod,

        You have delivered your hard-won content for lucrative commercial use (unlimited advertising*) by Instructables, which, small world, was founded by Saul Griffith and his circle (Squid Labs), who also founded Makani Power around ten years ago. About five years ago, Saul married into the O'Reilly publishing giant founder's family (married O'Reilly's daughter), at roughly the same time O'Reilly bought into Instructables and then flipped it to Autodesk. This is my hazy recollection of events a few years ago, when Instructables started hot, with roots in real hacker culture (many of my friends in Austin fooled), talent which moved on empty-handed, as the brand is forever milked for profit.

        In the future, you may want to retain control of your professional output rather than surrender it to these Bay Area sharks, exactly as they dictate in Terms-of-Service Agreement below. Please keep in mind that some of your work is collaborative, and your true circle is ill served by delivering Open-AWE for exploitation, without CC rights, moral rights, and all the rest, to these talented venture promoters (not so talented technically).

        Try and see if SaulG would help shed insider light on this instance of the social-media domination model, including the closely related role Makani/GoogleX has played in AWE (like cooking search results). You do not want to just bash Forum little-folk for quibbling, while you deliver your AWE value to the already AWE super-rich, lets hope,

        daveS



        1. Our Use of Your Content. By posting, providing, uploading, submitting, sharing, publishing, distributing, making available and/or allowing others to access or use Your Content to or through the Service, you grant to us and our affiliates a world-wide, royalty-free, fully paid-up, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, and fully sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right and license (but not the obligation) to reproduce, distribute, redistribute, modify, translate, adapt, prepare derivative works of, display, perform (each publicly or otherwise) and otherwise use all or part of Your Content, by any and all means and through any media and formats now known or hereafter discovered, but solely in connection with the Service and/or our business activities (such as, without limitation, for promoting and marketing the Service) and/or to comply with legal or technical requirements. Additionally, to the extent permitted under applicable law, you hereby waive and agree not to assert any and all rights that you may have under laws worldwide that concern “moral rights" or “droit moral," or similar rights, in connection with Your Content.




        On Friday, April 10, 2015 2:25 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
        Nice haircut


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17471 From: Rod Read Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

        Doesn't stop you from making it.
        Autodesk is more commercially savvy than just that or one person.
        That's a piddley wee plan from a minnow as yet not caught in shark netting.
        A fast wee minnow.
        However I would like very much for those works to be improved upon. Even by eels.

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17472 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
        Autodesk is a middle-aged tech conglomerate that I believe was master-manipulated into buying Instructables, at an inflated valuation.

        You seem to miss the real biz sharks are here and now, from your search engine to your AWE world. You will never see Makani/GoggleX's elite circle ever agreeing the same terms of service that millions of lower-class* players are forced to agree to, without negotiation, but instead they actually rake in many millions, by making real deals. Anyone at Autodesk with a comparable  narrative is now very old and not really looking out for you. The stockholders should make more money from the ads than creators will ever see, if this is typical social-media dominance.

        Lets wait and see if you get as good a deal for your efforts as insiders like SaulG, if you will allow comparison with the big winners as the objective measure of your treatment. They want you be happy with your deal, and somehow, so you are, without giving clever Bay Area marketing any credit.

        ---------------
        * The dot-com upper-class corresponds to sociologist C. Wright Mills' "Power Elites", and their power exceeds most governments, almost overnight. Billions of "hopeful" victims already see no better choice but to accept the Elite's "Terms of Service", and eagerly hand over their money or data, but its a set-up.





        On Friday, April 10, 2015 6:44 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
        Doesn't stop you from making it.
        Autodesk is more commercially savvy than just that or one person.
        That's a piddley wee plan from a minnow as yet not caught in shark netting.
        A fast wee minnow.
        However I would like very much for those works to be improved upon. Even by eels.


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17473 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
        22m2 PLPLs nearly square in plan, about 15ft to a side.

        In a 12kt breeze, a ~50lb payload rating is my guess. Six kites thus gives us about 300lbs payload, with about fifty lbs taken by the rope-tripods for bracing the actual payload in place airborne redundantly, from three spread-out 2kite stacks. In higher wind, far more payload can be lifted, but nominal operation in most-probable wind, and easy 2000ft potential is what kPower is after.

        Handling lulls reliably requires mastering local conditions, tether-elasticity, high altitude, active-retract, reverse-pumping, towing, etc. (or self-relaunching kites).



        On Friday, April 10, 2015 2:20 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
        Are these kites about 20 feet x 10 feet, or more square in shape like 13 feet x 13 feet?  How much weight do you reckon each could reliably lift, taking into account occasional lulls?


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17474 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: Inside Minesto || Magnus Landberg
        http://minesto.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/contactinventor1.png

         

        He notes on the page, recommended to read and see some fresh graphics:

        Deep Green – Minesto 

        " In year 2004, I presented the invention called the Enerkite (the former name of Deep Green) for Saab Ventures."

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17475 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: Inside Minesto || Magnus Landberg

        Research note and caution on use of "EnerKite"

        Sorting, one would want to explore the history:

        EnerKíte - Team

        as  well as how the term is used by Magnus Landberg  of Minesto.   I have not sorted things out on the term yet, but just flag the matter here.    Anyone?

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17476 From: dave santos Date: 4/10/2015
        Subject: Re: Inside Minesto || Magnus Landberg
        No direct commercial conflict, given sea and sky are fairly distinct markets, and the context is usually quite clear. EnerKite, the AWES venture, seems to have a secure TM, even if not the first user, unless harm to the Minesto party can be shown in court. Its dodgy if "enerkite" is original enough to seriously enforce as copyrighted outside TM usages.

        From: joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]
        Sent: ‎4/‎11/‎2015 12:33 AM
        To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [AWES] Re: Inside Minesto || Magnus Landberg

         

        http://minesto.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/contactinventor1.png

         

        He notes on the page, recommended to read and see some fresh graphics:

        Deep Green – Minesto 

        " In year 2004, I presented the invention called the Enerkite (the former name of Deep Green) for Saab Ventures."


        Posted by: joefaust333@gmail.com
        Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2)

        [The entire original message is not included.]
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17477 From: Rod Read Date: 4/11/2015
        Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
        DaveS,
        You're implying that I've done some deal? because I read some terms of service. Yeah right.
        It happened on the web... Do you give two sh1ts for terms of service. I just click buttons to get pellets.

        Maybe I should be managed if my personal projects offend and need restricted.
        2000 people have viewed the project now. Those seeds of "I like, maybe I could" have germinated into "maybe I will" in some cases.

        It's funny how peoples perceptions of a power elite are always a Dr Evil staring OWL eyes person.
        Yup they wouldn't want to give up power, but they're not trying to kill us all... That's just a sad side effect of their company trying to survive... Serving potentially relevant, targeted advertising above my work might even help someone.

        Company and financial laws formulated by a few owley eyed goblins are what's killing us. Wider society had no part in shaping these ...too complicated for your common school brain financial scenarios.

        I'm quite happy in the knowledge that it was open source software which has kicked the corporate hosts arse in this case... I used to use inventor for drawing, Can't see me being persuaded to use that product very easily again soon.
        I'm happy that the other AWE on instructables already is so fawning over MAKANI. yet uttery hopeless. I'm happy that Makani are so SH1T scared that they can't show any face there either.
        All fine with me.


        Rod Read

        Windswept and Interesting Limited
        15a Aiginis
        Isle of Lewis
        UK
        HS2 0PB

        07899057227
        01851 870878


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17478 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/11/2015
        Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

        Makani as open-AWE.

         

        PierreB

         

         

         

         

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17479 From: dave santos Date: 4/11/2015
        Subject: Aerotecture Tether Eye-Splicing
        Texas AWE Encampment arts and crafts class-
        Stages of splicing eyes of airborne lattice segments. Note fid rigidly fixed to work the very stiff crab rope chosen for max strength to cost.
          @@attachment@@
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17480 From: Rod Read Date: 4/11/2015
        Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
        Are you rigging active dynamic expansion of the kite stacks to avoid them all just coming together under load?
        Or just setting them out on a 1 wind direction pyramid?
        Or other?

        Rod Read

        Windswept and Interesting Limited
        15a Aiginis
        Isle of Lewis
        UK
        HS2 0PB

        07899057227
        01851 870878


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17481 From: Rod Read Date: 4/11/2015
        Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
        Yeah, funny eh!

        Rod Read

        Windswept and Interesting Limited
        15a Aiginis
        Isle of Lewis
        UK
        HS2 0PB

        07899057227
        01851 870878


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17482 From: dave santos Date: 4/11/2015
        Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
        The idea is to space the stacks apart enough to avoid interference while still able to lift a decent central payload. The strategy is "add more kite" and flying in higher wind, as we tame the kites. The goal is to validate safety even if one tripod leg fails, by multiple layers of redundancy.

        The first payloads are test dummies, and we will see how scary they fly...

        From: Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]
        Sent: ‎4/‎11/‎2015 2:33 PM
        To: AWE
        Subject: Re: [AWES] Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters

         

        Are you rigging active dynamic expansion of the kite stacks to avoid them all just coming together under load?
        Or just setting them out on a 1 wind direction pyramid?
        Or other?

        Rod Read

        Windswept and Interesting Limited
        15a Aiginis
        Isle of Lewis
        UK
        HS2 0PB

        07899057227
        01851 870878


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17483 From: Rod Read Date: 4/11/2015
        Subject: Re: kPower orders more 22m2 PL Pilot-Lifters
        Certainly if the 3 legs of this configuration sway apart and together again... then the joining rope tripod component will experience loads of lift at speed which can be repeatedly transferred to ground.
        Hmmm I wonder in scaling by array could the kite actions of adjacent cells be coplanar and rotate synchronously on the complete array giving auto retraction of tugged line by linked adjacent cell tug.

        Rod Read

        Windswept and Interesting Limited
        15a Aiginis
        Isle of Lewis
        UK
        HS2 0PB

        07899057227
        01851 870878


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17484 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/11/2015
        Subject: Re: John V. Mizzi

        Renewable energy systems using long-stroke open-channel reciprocating engines
        US 6555931 B2

        Publication numberUS8395271 B2
        Publication typeGrant
        Application numberUS 12/807,953
        Publication dateMar 12, 2013
        Filing dateSep 17, 2010
        Priority dateSep 30, 2009
        Also published asUS20110077113
        Publication number12807953, 807953, US 8395271 B2, US 8395271B2, US-B2-8395271, US8395271 B2, US8395271B2
        InventorsJohn V. Mizzi
        Original AssigneeJohn V. Mizzi
        Export CitationBiBTeX, EndNote, RefMan
        External Links: USPTO, USPTO Assignment, Espacenet


        PDF of patent

        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17485 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/11/2015
        Subject: Re: Kite-farm Launch, Land, Resource-Extender, Land-area-saver
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17486 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/11/2015
        Subject: Re: Kite-farm Launch, Land, Resource-Extender, Land-area-saver

        Large-gap nets on compression posts may be laterally anchored to hill or mountains. 

        The nets may keep kiting above the net and above the thousands of activities below the nets.  Aggregate posting lowers the stress duty of any one post.  Some posts may be inflated beams. The wide-gap nets will have catenary droop.


            Notice that very large net systems need not have the same mesh size over all patches of land. Indeed, the mesh size may vary greatly in order to serve not only the kite-system and other aviation needs, but the needs of peculiar below-Net activities. 

           Notice that the Net systems may have drop curtains of a wide variety also; such drops may be ordered from the kite-system master net managers or stewards. Drops may be shaders, windbreakers, insect controllers, dust controllers, crop protectors, sound damps,  wind channels, WECs, swings, climbers, water-from-air curtains, communications-cable holders,  etc.  Such drops modify the loads that node posts will carry.   Camping aloft below the kite-system operation space might give a safer and cooler experience for many people around the earth; let soil rompers and soil creepy crawlers do their thing while human rest aloft.  Double the face of the earth.   Reduce the cost of operating tethered AWES.  Some net "holes" may be loaded with shaders, solar arrays, ...


            Also, though the primary net system separate kite-system activity above the net system, the very net lateral anchors could be fit in some circumstances as PTO devices. Nets may be of square holes or hexagonal holes. In some sites, just systems of individual lines would form the catch, even with lines actually forming integral nets; the lines may be parallel sets or sets of lines that overlap; skewed non-touching sets of lines may serve some purposes. Renting rights to use the aerial lines for secondary purposes pending engineering approvals could form a new sector of economic activity; many specialized jobs would be created to care for huge aerial net-post systems.


          Teasers:

        == Notice how many telephone poles there are.

        == http://www.usgr.com/net-fabrics/wind-break.php

        == http://www.usgr.com/net-fabrics/types-of-agricultural-crop-covers.php 

        == "Lightweight netting protects hundreds of acres. PAK bird net for overhead canopy structures is an effective way to keep birds out of your crop."

        ==

         


        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17488 From: gordon_sp Date: 4/12/2015
        Subject: UNIVERSAL JOINTS
        Attachments :

          If the turbines are connected to the tether with rigid shafts and universal joints as is shown in the drawing, will they orient towards the direction of the wind?  Will the gain in turbine performance be negated by the inefficiency of the universal joints?  The turbine shafts can be made short relative to the length of the joining shafts.

          It is possible to scale this system to much larger size without much weight penalty, since all the turbines turn as one unit and the relative torque between turbines is small.  The only torque scaling penalty occurs in the short distance between the bottom turbine and the cable drive.


          Gordon S


            @@attachment@@
          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17489 From: dave santos Date: 4/12/2015
          Subject: Re: UNIVERSAL JOINTS [1 Attachment]
          Hi Gordon,

          Your image and Microsoft docx attachment did not show in my cheap portable device, but in general, yes, AWES turbines can weathercock by many methods and mechanisms, and this is a standard capability for all major concepts.

          The bad news is that any unit mechanism aloft, if based on rigid parts, cannot scale greatly* due to aviation's severe sensitivity to square-cube law. Try and fly any considerable mass by wind power, if you are unsure of the difficulties, and large scale rigidity has extra safety and performance problems.

          You concept will surely work at smaller scales, like all others, and is well worth testing, but for the big energy markets beat inherently simpler designs that do not require any major rigid parts aloft, and thus are less sensitive to basic scaling law.

          Looking forward to seeing your ideas,

          daveS


          * Pure tensile wind structure can reach km scale aloft.



          On Sunday, April 12, 2015 2:17 PM, "gordon_sp@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
          [Attachment(s) from gordon_sp@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy] included below]
          If the turbines are connected to the tether with rigid shafts and universal joints as is shown in the drawing, will they orient towards the direction of the wind?  Will the gain in turbine performance be negated by the inefficiency of the universal joints?  The turbine shafts can be made short relative to the length of the joining shafts.
          It is possible to scale this system to much larger size without much weight penalty, since all the turbines turn as one unit and the relative torque between turbines is small.  The only torque scaling penalty occurs in the short distance between the bottom turbine and the cable drive.

          Gordon S



          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17490 From: dave santos Date: 4/12/2015
          Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
          Rod,

          At least one AWES project has long been offered on the Instructables site, and SaulG himself posted CAD powerkite plans, so its a stretch to imagine Daisy content now contradicts Makani's circles' commercial social media dominance. Nor should a report of 2000 page views be hailed at face value, since the view criteria is sketchy and often the majority of click-bait advert activity is botnet generated. Judge Instructables results by how many real talents you attract instead (even one find would be great). In my experience, you have to search long and hard for top talent, rather than auto-attract it. Falsifying Gordon is an compound challenge, given the Daisy down-select of a torque basis of the AWES. Soundly beating Wing7 for small-scale AWES design would be a terrific Daisy validation, even if Instructables gleans the revenue generated, by superior Squid Labs biz sense. You still have a ways to go, in my view, for even a symbolic victory claim.

          daveS



          On Saturday, April 11, 2015 12:28 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
          Yeah, funny eh!

          Rod Read

          Windswept and Interesting Limited
          15a Aiginis
          Isle of Lewis
          UK
          HS2 0PB

          07899057227
          01851 870878



          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17491 From: Rod Read Date: 4/13/2015
          Subject: Re: instructions on instructables

          I got an old wind sock on the weekend which could beat wing 7.
          Chop into 15 rings, spin each ring 180 and join all in line, attach blades, dip in flow with a gen attached.
          It's not about cash if you're doing it right Dave.
          It's not even about haircuts Doug. (Probably a significant contributing factor)
          2000 page views 1day in, I'm going to even dare to trust they're genuine humans.
          Significant investors in alt energy retweeted and favourited my video and page link.
          Other parties expressed interest in building their own version.
          This isn't about being used as advertising bait.
          You should post some instructions on Mothra somewhere popular. I have a bunch of old windsurf sails to re-purpose. Maybe I should record what I do. Certainly if my intention is openness and innovating I should share my work.

          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17492 From: dave santos Date: 4/13/2015
          Subject: Re: instructions on instructables
          Mothra instructions are "somewhere popular" (Internet), but its just not a casual project for Instructables advertizing revenue platform. As if Mothra tech really only lacked Squid Labs exploitation to properly succeed, rather than Squid Labs fault in lacking the technical background to address Felker's Challenge (large-scale wind powered aviation platform at $5lb). 

          Ironically, I desperately needed to get far away from the Squids' hype-driven world, to instead immerse in authentic kite-knowledge culture, to be able to develop such ideas as Mothra, to hopefully rest on merit, not hype. Lets watch the Daisy triumph on Instructables to judge it the better way forward for AWE developers. I am not against doing business with the Bay Area circle at the exec level, just not in favor of a mass-media legal model of those imposed Terms-of-Service, which you seem to deny has any serious downside.




          .





          On Monday, April 13, 2015 12:16 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
          I got an old wind sock on the weekend which could beat wing 7.
          Chop into 15 rings, spin each ring 180 and join all in line, attach blades, dip in flow with a gen attached.
          It's not about cash if you're doing it right Dave.
          It's not even about haircuts Doug. (Probably a significant contributing factor)
          2000 page views 1day in, I'm going to even dare to trust they're genuine humans.
          Significant investors in alt energy retweeted and favourited my video and page link.
          Other parties expressed interest in building their own version.
          This isn't about being used as advertising bait.
          You should post some instructions on Mothra somewhere popular. I have a bunch of old windsurf sails to re-purpose. Maybe I should record what I do. Certainly if my intention is openness and innovating I should share my work.


          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17493 From: dougselsam Date: 4/13/2015
          Subject: Einstein's sourround-sound system
          After stumbling across a Physics Phorum
          quantum bose einstein effects on a macro scale?

           


          I posted the following question:
          "If say a hundred or more objects, at a human scale, are connected by a string, and they can be made to synchronize in an oscillation, could that be considered a bose einstein condensate?"

          The only answer I've seen so far (By "DrClaude") is:
          "No. It would have none of the many quantum properties of a BEC. A BEC is not a collection of things that can oscillate in synchrony."

          Whether there is any truth to this single answer, I have no idea.  For one thing, he said "no", but he didn't follow it with a "huh-uh".  Around here, you can't just say "no", it has to be "no, huh-uh"... (kind of a hick-town mentality, although this area is developing fast)

          Now that I think of it, if a couple-dozen ladies in a dance troupe all turn away from the audience and shake their butts back-and-forth in unison, does THAT meet the standards of Albert's surround-sound system?
          :)


          Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17494 From: benhaiemp Date: 4/13/2015
          Subject: "Felker's Challenge (large-scale wind powered aviation platform at $


          $5lb is easier to reach with rigid wings than with soft wings.  A parasail is about 1,500 $ . A paraglider is about 3,000 $ for 10 lb (300$lb) . A ram kite is  40-100$lb. Can soft giant kite sytems be less expensive/lb ? What are means to standardize their building, obtaining a cost being roughly fabric cost?  If yes simple skin kites for $5lb would be very interesting.


          PierreB