Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                          AWES 17243 to 17292 Page 239 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17243 From: dave santos Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Pacific Skypower Test at Texas AWE Encampment

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17244 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Tent anchoring PTO

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17245 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Mars One is the new focus for Bas Lansdorp

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17246 From: Rod Read Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Tent anchoring PTO

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17247 From: dougselsam Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Bumblebee flight revisited - cool website

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17248 From: dave santos Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Tent anchoring PTO

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17249 From: Rod Read Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Tent anchoring PTO

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17250 From: dave santos Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Tent anchoring PTO

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17251 From: dave santos Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Lessons from the American Wind Power Center

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17252 From: Igor Avkshtol Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: (Woops, I had the wake backwards) Re: Bolonkin on non-turbine el

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17253 From: dave santos Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: (Woops, I had the wake backwards) Re: Bolonkin on non-turbine el

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17254 From: Rod Read Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: woeful marketing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17255 From: edoishi Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Pacific Skypower Test at Texas AWE Encampment

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17256 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: (Woops, I had the wake backwards) Re: Bolonkin on non-turbine el

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17257 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: (Woops, I had the wake backwards) Re: Bolonkin on non-turbine el

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17258 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: IFO DSing into the Ozone Layer? Jet Stream Kite-Tow beyond the Ozone

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17259 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17260 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17261 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17262 From: dougselsam Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: woeful marketing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17263 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17264 From: dougselsam Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17265 From: Igor Avkshtol Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: (Woops, I had the wake backwards) Re: Bolonkin on non-turbine el

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17266 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17267 From: dougselsam Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17268 From: dougselsam Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17269 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17270 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Testing Pacific Sky Power's Kite Controller Bar

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17271 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: woeful marketing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17272 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: woeful marketing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17273 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17274 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Rob Whittal's leading parafoil designs

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17275 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17276 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17277 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Dr. Chris Vermillion's AWES R&D Roles

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17278 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Dr. Chris Vermillion's AWES R&D Roles

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17279 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17280 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Rob Whittal's leading parafoil designs

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17281 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17282 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17283 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: next test ready

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17284 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Rob Whittal's leading parafoil designs

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17285 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17286 From: Rod Read Date: 3/29/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17287 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17288 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2015
Subject: Growing List of GW Unit-Scale AWES Concepts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17289 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2015
Subject: AWES iso-dome pumping model (flatfish mode)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17290 From: Rod Read Date: 3/29/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17291 From: Rod Read Date: 3/29/2015
Subject: Re: AWES iso-dome pumping model (flatfish mode)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17292 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2015
Subject: Re: AWES iso-dome pumping model (flatfish mode)



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17243 From: dave santos Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Pacific Skypower Test at Texas AWE Encampment
Yesterday, Ed S and I flew Dan Tracy's Sky 40 system, which seems to be the first complete AWES product ever*. We used our own lifter to top the two-kite stack, and drove the kPower AWEfest music box (a car stereo integrated in a cooler).

The wind in Austin at Mueller Park was fitfully turbulent, and the AWES would start to charge the "flat" gell-cell battery and run the light show, but then the system would land in lulls, with the hard-wired light show promptly discharging the battery before the sound system could reach its operating voltage. We did not have time to charge the battery more, so we stripped the lights and battery from the circuit, ran the AWES up to its highest conductor cable reach (~30m), and directly powered the stereo. Hip-hop music began to play by kite power. Ed will post photo or video documentation next.

The significance of this small feat is that AWE has reached the stage where one can simply buy a third-party AWES and generate about 30W, without having to DIY AWE. Congratulations to Dan Tracy for this reaching this historic commercial milestone first, ahead of all others contending for this honor (KiteSat is only now reaching its pre-production prototype stage, due to normal R&D delay in the New Tech Kite China supply chain).

-----------------------
* KiteLab Ilwaco marketed a specialized AWE FlipWing in 2009, but without a generator included, so it was not a complete system.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17244 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Tent anchoring PTO

Recall that rope-driven  PTO systems may be in underground pipe in order to free open-air land use.

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17245 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Mars One is the new focus for Bas Lansdorp

Bas Lansdorp is still riding high and far in his visions partly on the capital he gained from selling much of his interest in kite-energy company Ampyx Power (which Bas founded):

The millionaire offering a one-way ticket to Mars


It seems kite energy might play a role in one-way tickets to Mars. 


~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17246 From: Rod Read Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Tent anchoring PTO

How could you implement that on this design Joe?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17247 From: dougselsam Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Bumblebee flight revisited - cool website
Bumblebee Flight Does Not Violate the Laws of Physics
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17248 From: dave santos Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Tent anchoring PTO
Rod, 

Note that the old tri-tether AWES concepts do not involve rails, and three tethers was preferred on the basis of KIS. Also, the tri-tether concepts use a pilot kite for flight automation, and have already been validated by working prototypes.

Joe's suggestion of underground cables in trays (like San Francisco cable cars use) could be used to bring all cables to central workstation, rather than put winches all over the place. 

daveS



On Thursday, March 26, 2015 8:16 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
How could you implement that on this design Joe?


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17249 From: Rod Read Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Tent anchoring PTO

Tri tether has no rail system... Aware, thanks. I was alluding to the nts type rail ring of kites again. Not a terrible idea.
Like I proposed here a few years back.

3 tethers is simpler. Aware, thanks.
6 may well perform better though, especially when flying with a central reference. Put a loop of line between each post with controllable cleats linking the loops. Then you get great control. 6 may farm more reliability with rope loop mounted cleats balancing loads, or lift kite tip mount cleats moving between anchoring lines. This allows for isotropic realignment of meshed lift kites over a sway pumped grid.

I've designed and published my any direction central sheave handling system here before... More tunnels = more digging. The upper lines will still be above the ground and tight is the dangerous point we have to be aware of.

What happens when 1 central winch fails as opposed to 3 or 6?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17250 From: dave santos Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: Tent anchoring PTO
KIS favors a lower part count, with cost savings that can be applied to a better kill or recovery system.

Its a strange requirement to have more lines only so that they can fail without mattering.



On Thursday, March 26, 2015 1:05 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Tri tether has no rail system... Aware, thanks. I was alluding to the nts type rail ring of kites again. Not a terrible idea.
Like I proposed here a few years back.
3 tethers is simpler. Aware, thanks.
6 may well perform better though, especially when flying with a central reference. Put a loop of line between each post with controllable cleats linking the loops. Then you get great control. 6 may farm more reliability with rope loop mounted cleats balancing loads, or lift kite tip mount cleats moving between anchoring lines. This allows for isotropic realignment of meshed lift kites over a sway pumped grid.
I've designed and published my any direction central sheave handling system here before... More tunnels = more digging. The upper lines will still be above the ground and tight is the dangerous point we have to be aware of.
What happens when 1 central winch fails as opposed to 3 or 6?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17251 From: dave santos Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Lessons from the American Wind Power Center
Last week, en route to the TX AWE Encampment, it was a pleasure to hang out in Lubbock, TX, aka "flatland", in a forest of working windmills at the AWPC museum. Besides the acres of towers, there is over 60,000sqft of exhibition space (!), and I finally had the leisure to really pore over the vast collection. Coy Harris, the founder and lead maintainer, estimates there have been over 700 wind turbine companies starting in pioneer times up to the present. 

In Texas, it seems as if every rural town dependent on windmills had its local start-up that managed to do business for quite a run before the Chicago Aermotor company finally dominated the market by WWII. At first there was a zoo-like proliferation of ideas, and each town or inventor tended to bring a unique mix of strengths and weaknesses, but all the machines worked. One design was even a primitive but effective wing-mill, sold as DIY plans only. Most of these wind enterprises did not outlive their founders, but some transitioned to new product markets.

The most primitive windmill rotors consisting of many wood slats had one key advantage, that they could be transported by cart and assembled anywhere from a COTS bundle of boards. Even as galvanized steel blades emerged, wood slats lived on side by side with metal for many years. A unique sequence of Aermotors show how the brand began as a lean version of the best ideas, and model by model was perfected.

My favorite in the museum collection was the faithful recreation of a wooden 17th century English post mill (often described as a "Dutch windmill"). This wonderful machine needs love to operate, so I hope to assemble a volunteer team from Austin to make at least one extended work visit a year.

Coy took a keen interest in AWE news, photocopying parts of the Springer AWE book that snapscan bought us, and even agreed to create a major collection of AWE prototypes for the new exhibition hall featuring modern wind power, but its up to the AWE community to make it happen. Please consider donating time or money to the museum.

I flew a 3.5m2 PL power kite among the turbines, pumping hard in very light air; even dallying with a blade tip of the large idled Vestas turbine. Lubbock is a place to do things with wind tech that otherwise would be hard to get done. It has a large spirit for a small city, with many fine souls that blew on out into the world (Buddy Holly and my old pal, Butch Hancock, for examples). Coy invites the AWEC 2016 conference to show up (if AWEC is viable in US anymore). Connecting jet flights to Lubbock exist from the DFW air hub. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17252 From: Igor Avkshtol Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: (Woops, I had the wake backwards) Re: Bolonkin on non-turbine el
I strongly suspect that the biggest problem of the device suggested in the article is "electron gun" - the source of free electrons. I don't believe the wind can blow the electrons from metal, have never heard of such thing. The air is mostly neutral electrically. If you try to split the molecules it will be a mixture of positive and negative ions, both types reaching the destination net - this cannot be called electrical current. For some time I believed that splitting gas molecules in the magnetic field could be the way of creating a Bladeless Turbine. (Magnetic field separates moving positive and negative charges). Problem is that even in the sea water with significant number of free charges (moving with waves, about 1.4 m/s) and the magnetic field of about 1T the 10 W device is about 1 cubic meter. Increased density of the flux (the power is proportional to the square of the flux density) and lowered resistivity of medium (water or air or sun wind) could help, but the right technologies do not exist at the moment. Would appreciate that very much if somebody could prove me wrong. 

Igor
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17253 From: dave santos Date: 3/26/2015
Subject: Re: (Woops, I had the wake backwards) Re: Bolonkin on non-turbine el
I think the term "electron gun" (cathode ray tube) is a bad translation of "static discharger", which are common on aircraft, and do in fact bleed off excess charge by wind friction. In the case of AlexB's prototype design, I would use a brush like the product samples linked below. 

Its not essential the discharger surface be metallic itself (like a metal van der Graff bulb), only that excess surface charge have plenty of surface area (like someone's hair when touching a van der Graff bulb) to avoid vaporizing the electrode or restricting discharge.

In any case, AlexB is proposing that voltage pressure in the conductor loop is what drives the electrons into the wind (as a corona discharge), so there may be a requirement for a high-frequency circuit design for this idea to work optimally (like a Tesla coil).





On Thursday, March 26, 2015 6:30 PM, "Igor Avkshtol inzenerushka@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
I strongly suspect that the biggest problem of the device suggested in the article is "electron gun" - the source of free electrons. I don't believe the wind can blow the electrons from metal, have never heard of such thing. The air is mostly neutral electrically. If you try to split the molecules it will be a mixture of positive and negative ions, both types reaching the destination net - this cannot be called electrical current. For some time I believed that splitting gas molecules in the magnetic field could be the way of creating a Bladeless Turbine. (Magnetic field separates moving positive and negative charges). Problem is that even in the sea water with significant number of free charges (moving with waves, about 1.4 m/s) and the magnetic field of about 1T the 10 W device is about 1 cubic meter. Increased density of the flux (the power is proportional to the square of the flux density) and lowered resistivity of medium (water or air or sun wind) could help, but the right technologies do not exist at the moment. Would appreciate that very much if somebody could prove me wrong. 

Igor

On Mar 22, 2015, at 12:47 PM, dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17254 From: Rod Read Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: woeful marketing
What a shame the author called it bird mince.
https://youtu.be/yP29-URHeNg

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17255 From: edoishi Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Pacific Skypower Test at Texas AWE Encampment
Extremely crude cell phone video of a fly gen test at the TX AWE Encampment.  Between having to one hand the phone and the sun glare on the screen, i ended up with more video of the ground then the kites in the air... nonetheless, i salvaged this much from the session.  Note, there was no battery in the loop so all the music you hear was thanks to Pacific Sky Power's system...

Pacific Sky Power FlyGen test

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17256 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: (Woops, I had the wake backwards) Re: Bolonkin on non-turbine el
To state more correctly the morphology of an ideal static discharger, a large number of conductive sharp points seems best, in a branched conductor topology akin to the conductive pattern that collects charge on the surface of solar cells.

Of the various COTS materials available for static discharge, metallic tinsel seems to offer the best cost and weight performance-





On Thursday, March 26, 2015 7:27 PM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com  
I strongly suspect that the biggest problem of the device suggested in the article is "electron gun" - the source of free electrons. I don't believe the wind can blow the electrons from metal, have never heard of such thing. The air is mostly neutral electrically. If you try to split the molecules it will be a mixture of positive and negative ions, both types reaching the destination net - this cannot be called electrical current. For some time I believed that splitting gas molecules in the magnetic field could be the way of creating a Bladeless Turbine. (Magnetic field separates moving positive and negative charges). Problem is that even in the sea water with significant number of free charges (moving with waves, about 1.4 m/s) and the magnetic field of about 1T the 10 W device is about 1 cubic meter. Increased density of the flux (the power is proportional to the square of the flux density) and lowered resistivity of medium (water or air or sun wind) could help, but the right technologies do not exist at the moment. Would appreciate that very much if somebody could prove me wrong. 

Igor

On Mar 22, 2015, at 12:47 PM, dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17257 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: (Woops, I had the wake backwards) Re: Bolonkin on non-turbine el
Further documentation linked below of the effect AlexB is proposing, but in the bench-top case of creating wind electrostatically (while AlexB's device runs in reverse; wind-driven). We recall the Dutch electrostatic wind tower scheme with two notes: that a water mist cycle in parallel with the electron flow may boost effectiveness (with mist recycled at the downwind screen like a mist harvest mesh), and that AlexB's inventive leap is to propose this known principle to AWE in upper wind.

Unacceptable problems may include unwanted ozone and other corona discharge secondary effects (unless ozone-layer regeneration is intended, but the degraded ozone layer seems just above practical kite altitudes :( Perhaps the downwind screen can recatalyze O2 from the ozone, as a closed cycle.

Wikipedia-

Ionized gases produced in a corona discharge are accelerated by the electric field, producing a movement of gas or "electrical wind". The air movement associated with a discharge current of a few hundred microamperes can blow out a small candle flame within about 1 cm of a discharge point. 





On Friday, March 27, 2015 9:59 AM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com  
I strongly suspect that the biggest problem of the device suggested in the article is "electron gun" - the source of free electrons. I don't believe the wind can blow the electrons from metal, have never heard of such thing. The air is mostly neutral electrically. If you try to split the molecules it will be a mixture of positive and negative ions, both types reaching the destination net - this cannot be called electrical current. For some time I believed that splitting gas molecules in the magnetic field could be the way of creating a Bladeless Turbine. (Magnetic field separates moving positive and negative charges). Problem is that even in the sea water with significant number of free charges (moving with waves, about 1.4 m/s) and the magnetic field of about 1T the 10 W device is about 1 cubic meter. Increased density of the flux (the power is proportional to the square of the flux density) and lowered resistivity of medium (water or air or sun wind) could help, but the right technologies do not exist at the moment. Would appreciate that very much if somebody could prove me wrong. 

Igor

On Mar 22, 2015, at 12:47 PM, dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy] <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com






Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17258 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: IFO DSing into the Ozone Layer? Jet Stream Kite-Tow beyond the Ozone
It seems feasible that an IFO glider could DS from Jet Stream gradients at about 15km high and ballistically hurl itself up into the lower Ozone Layer around 20km high. The IFO starting velocity would be close to Mach1 or even greater, based on similar model DS gliders that already exceed Mach .5 . Ballistic phase drag would be low, so it would come close. An IFO motor-glider could in principle motor up far higher with energy it harvests and stores from lower down. Cost would be high.

Possible lower-cost kite methods include towing a kite train up from the Jet Stream to get to 20km, or even beyond. Maybe this is a workable way to re-ionize the ozone layer. There are also the geoengineering concepts for cooling with high altitude H2SO4 and seawater sodium that might be cost-enabled. There are many applications we cannot yet see for reaching even higher (
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17259 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer
The "100kW embedded drive system" mentioned in this new job offering is consistent with an M600 motor-flygen (x 8). This confirms what we had supposed, that a scale-up of the Joby series was underway in secret, since no COTS motor-flygen existed with the required extreme-performance.

The inconsistent part is Astro Teller's public announcements, first in India, and then at SXSW, that they will fly the M600 next month. This open critical job listing suggests they will not be flying the M600 next month. They may fly Wing7s first, as a PR smokescreen, and cast M600 delays in GoogleX's ongoing smart-failure PR mythology, rather than admitting old fashioned incompetence-

Job listing-


Public rationalization for GoogleX's ongoing parade of failure-


Astro on Makani at SXSW from a blogger-

"Project Makani // Failing to Fail
  • An energy source
  • Goal : Harvest the power of the wind at a fraction of the cost of normal wind turbines.
  • They discovered that the higher they got the higher the wind speed and the more consistent the speeds. There is an enormous advantage to going up when harvesting wind for power.
  • A normal wind turbine is about 100 meters and 300/400 tons. They are an incredible amount of money.
  • How : Next month they have a turbine that will fly, and once it is released the length of the tie down (80ft), the wind turns it’s 8 propellors. The kite like contraption is the most efficient wind energy producer.
  • Larry page said, “make sure you crash at least 5 versions of the vehicles.” So the team picked the windiest place in America to test the product. But they failed to fail. They never crashed it."
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17260 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer
PCB         process control block
control PCBs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_control_block
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17261 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer
I read "PCB" as Printed-Circuit-Board, but both kinds of PCBs are needed. It can be presumed some lead programmer would write master OS PCBs, and that the power systems engineer would do the hardware PCB (microcontroller motherboard), write embedded code, define the OS PCB interface, but not write the PCB necessarily..

In any case, the M600 seems like a very sketchy hack, when a far larger more rigorous effort is the norm in large-scale aerospace R&D. One top new hire only? Maybe GoogleX's budget leash has tightened behind the scenes, after blowing so many hundreds-of-millions for so many years on googley smart-failures. Most of us can hardly afford to fail at all, if we hope to succeed.



On Friday, March 27, 2015 1:23 PM, "Joe Faust joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
PCB         process control block
control PCBs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_control_block
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17262 From: dougselsam Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: woeful marketing
Sky Serpent Flying Superturbine Prototype Demo - March 2008

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17263 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer
Likely custom PCBs are needed for M600 system gaps like interfacing and/or isolating high current power-electronic MOSFET bricks, but that they will use LabView's buses and controller/sensor/etc modules, as already known in use by Makani in recent years. NI is Austin-based, so it will be possible to find out from our old local NI social network if something is afoot (Bay Area NDA's hardly count here). Labview's graphical programming would avoid a specific textual programming language requirement, which is not mentioned in the job description. LabView is not optimal for a mass-production design, but it could be Makani's ace-in-the-hole for prototyping what they are finally calling "energy kites".



On Friday, March 27, 2015 2:15 PM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com  
PCB         process control block
control PCBs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_control_block
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17264 From: dougselsam Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer
DaveS said: "Most of us can hardly afford to fail at all, if we hope to succeed." - ***Which is why "test everything" could never get you anywhere.  That is like saying "walk in every direction" to get from L.A. to N.Y.:  You could walk forever and never leave the general area where you started.  There is something to be said for knowing where to go, assuming you want to ever actually get there.  :) DougS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17265 From: Igor Avkshtol Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: (Woops, I had the wake backwards) Re: Bolonkin on non-turbine el
A couple observations. Static discharge follows the electric field, never goes against it. Static electricity is capable of high voltage but hardly any meaningful power. By the way, what is the electrical potential of the sharp point of a needle? Hundreds of volts?

AB initially states that the electrons must move against the electric field for the device to work. But later he forgets that statement and starts electron emission from the cathode (heated or otherwise) while in his device the cathode (negative electrode) is crucified on the wall (and is experiencing the electron exodus). 

Some numbers. The strength of electric field is E=V/L, where V is the voltage (the difference in electrical potentials) and L is the distance between the charged plates. A charge in the electric field is subjected to the force: F=q*E, where q is the charge. The kinetic energy of the moving particle is K=m*v^2/2, where m is its mass and v is its speed. The energy that is required for the charged particle to overcome the electric field is F*L. That leads to the following equation: K=F*L=q*V=m*v^2/2. So the required initial speed (wind speed? yes, for the case of "zero resistance” according to AB) is v= (2*q*V/m)^0.5. The charge of the electron is 1.6E-19C (the sign omitted here). The mass of the electron is 9.11E-31kg. That gives us the required speed v=351262*sqrt(V). Even if the voltage is just 1V, the required speed is 351262m/s?!
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17266 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer
Doug,

Maybe you can afford to fail to understand the importance of "test everything". At least Makani gives lip-service to "test everything", as the known engineering ideal, even as they fail to test or study most concepts.

You forget that "test everything" is understood by me to be spread across all R&D teams. All we have to do in most cases is carefully study the world's growing collective results for more promising down-select options, which is why AWE does in fact progress, the more testing occurs. Go ahead and not test, nor study much; and we will see if that is what will "never get you anywhere"..

Another vital aspect to the dominant "test everythng" ethos is training. Its invaluable to have hands-on experience of many kinds of technical kites and AWES. The "everything" usage is of course only figurative, not literal, or you would be right,

daveS





On Friday, March 27, 2015 2:38 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
DaveS said: "Most of us can hardly afford to fail at all, if we hope to succeed." - ***Which is why "test everything" could never get you anywhere.  That is like saying "walk in every direction" to get from L.A. to N.Y.:  You could walk forever and never leave the general area where you started.  There is something to be said for knowing where to go, assuming you want to ever actually get there.  :) DougS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17267 From: dougselsam Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer
Clearly, they are referring to PolyChlorinated Biphenyls ;)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17268 From: dougselsam Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer
DaveS says: "Doug, Maybe you can afford to fail to understand ...At least Makani gives lip-service to "test everything", as the known engineering ideal, even as they fail..."   *** It would be nice if you could stop characterizing every thought or action of everyone besides yourself, using the word "fail".

"You forget that "test everything" is understood by me to be spread across all R&D teams."
***Great, so we have almost all teams trying almost the exact same idea... wonderful.  Meanwhile, I would point out that this is one more example of you "redefining" your way out of each successive statement you make as its potential veracity evaporates...

"All we have to do in most cases is carefully study the world's growing collective results for more promising down-select options, which is why AWE does in fact progress, the more testing occurs."
*** Here we go again, with you imagining AWE as a carnival or circus, with you as the mustachioed master of ceremonies, cracking the whip as the lions jump from pedestal to pedestal.  You imagine the efforts of every person in the world trying anything AWE-related as a prelude to a mythological "downselect" that will be carried out by you, at some nebulous future point where, no matter how little progress you actually make, you will somehow be "the decider" and judge a "winner" in a game which you posture as being somehow "in charge of".  The way it looks to me, if one or more teams DOES ever get ANYTHING useful in AWE flying, it may or may not have anything to do with you whatsoever, and you may never get a chance to participate in any "downselect", especially since the way things work in real wind energy is more akin to evolution and survival of the fittest, than any one person "deciding" or "selecting" what works.  Mother nature decides.  People get to learn from her.  The people do not do the downselecting, and if they do, they are probably not you.

"Go ahead and not test, nor study much; and we will see if that is what will "never get you anywhere".."
*** Thanks for the advice.  I have forgotten more than you will ever learn.

"Another vital aspect to the dominant "test everythng" ethos is training."
***Oh sure, training in kite-flying and knot-tying, no doubt.  These will be vital skills for a mythical steam-punk future floating world hovering over NYC, with DaveS and friends climbing around like monkeys in the rigging, ducking the spotted mushrooms.  Sure, and who would it be that never "studied" all the crashed mega kites, zeppelins, and inflatables, that show what a ridiculous idea that is?  You'd be way better off writing a fantasy novel than pretending to be doing any engineering.

" Its invaluable to have hands-on experience of many kinds of technical kites and AWES."
***Oh yes, ESPECIALLY if kites turn out to have nothing whatsoever to do with the future of wind energy...

"The "everything" usage is of course only figurative, not literal, or you would be right," - daveS
***Great, because I was just about to test some dried dog poops from the back yard to see what role they might play in AWE, on the advice of the good professor... - DougS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17269 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Re: Makani seeks Power Systems Engineer
Doug wrote: "I was just about to test some dried dog poops from the back yard to see what role they might play in AWE".


Comment: Test the wet ones instead, if you are serious about mocking engineering testing norms :)





On Friday, March 27, 2015 5:36 PM, "dougselsam@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
DaveS says: "Doug, Maybe you can afford to fail to understand ...At least Makani gives lip-service to "test everything", as the known engineering ideal, even as they fail..."   *** It would be nice if you could stop characterizing every thought or action of everyone besides yourself, using the word "fail".

"You forget that "test everything" is understood by me to be spread across all R&D teams."
***Great, so we have almost all teams trying almost the exact same idea... wonderful.  Meanwhile, I would point out that this is one more example of you "redefining" your way out of each successive statement you make as its potential veracity evaporates...

"All we have to do in most cases is carefully study the world's growing collective results for more promising down-select options, which is why AWE does in fact progress, the more testing occurs."
*** Here we go again, with you imagining AWE as a carnival or circus, with you as the mustachioed master of ceremonies, cracking the whip as the lions jump from pedestal to pedestal.  You imagine the efforts of every person in the world trying anything AWE-related as a prelude to a mythological "downselect" that will be carried out by you, at some nebulous future point where, no matter how little progress you actually make, you will somehow be "the decider" and judge a "winner" in a game which you posture as being somehow "in charge of".  The way it looks to me, if one or more teams DOES ever get ANYTHING useful in AWE flying, it may or may not have anything to do with you whatsoever, and you may never get a chance to participate in any "downselect", especially since the way things work in real wind energy is more akin to evolution and survival of the fittest, than any one person "deciding" or "selecting" what works.  Mother nature decides.  People get to learn from her.  The people do not do the downselecting, and if they do, they are probably not you.

"Go ahead and not test, nor study much; and we will see if that is what will "never get you anywhere".."
*** Thanks for the advice.  I have forgotten more than you will ever learn.

"Another vital aspect to the dominant "test everythng" ethos is training."
***Oh sure, training in kite-flying and knot-tying, no doubt.  These will be vital skills for a mythical steam-punk future floating world hovering over NYC, with DaveS and friends climbing around like monkeys in the rigging, ducking the spotted mushrooms.  Sure, and who would it be that never "studied" all the crashed mega kites, zeppelins, and inflatables, that show what a ridiculous idea that is?  You'd be way better off writing a fantasy novel than pretending to be doing any engineering.

" Its invaluable to have hands-on experience of many kinds of technical kites and AWES."
***Oh yes, ESPECIALLY if kites turn out to have nothing whatsoever to do with the future of wind energy...

"The "everything" usage is of course only figurative, not literal, or you would be right," - daveS
***Great, because I was just about to test some dried dog poops from the back yard to see what role they might play in AWE, on the advice of the good professor... - DougS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17270 From: dave santos Date: 3/27/2015
Subject: Testing Pacific Sky Power's Kite Controller Bar
kPower supported Dan Tracy's successful Kickstarter campaign and scored his controller bar, which was brought to the AWE Encampment for anyone to try. Instead of a parafoil power kite, a 3m2 NPW was rigged, (after Ed had sampled the kite on very long lines, as training). Along with the Sky 40 testing, this was three distinct kite tests in about an hour, which is a typical session pace.

It was evident that the somewhat larger SS NPW is not as handy as a parafoil to launch short-lined, but not too hard either. Normally wild short-line dynamics where extra awkward by reel-bar control, but it took just seconds to get the hang of reeling or paying-out fast, while steering smoothly but aggressively. The crank offered about 3x advantage, so the kite was easy to haul in, even in gusts.

Dan's reel bar construction is solid and homemade, but best suited for trainer-size kites, given the hand launch factors and light belt harness. This sort of bar is most suited for canoe or kayak WECS, and would ideally match to a valved parafoil waterkite like the smaller HQ Hydra. The Kevlar lines provided offer a chance to compare over time against our UHMWPE standard.

This controller bar model does not have an added reel-brake; one simply lets all the line out to its limit. It would be cool to store a lot more line on the reel, and set a brake at whatever line length desired. Three, four, and five line variants would be sweet. There is a lot more potential in these experimental reel bars, which are popping up all over, but also cluster around the Columbia Gorge kite scene. Dan's version gets the job done at a good price.

Image result for dan pacific sky power kite
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17271 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: woeful marketing
Yes Doug there are definite similarities. They spin blades over a tensed line.
There are definite and non obvious differences... I'll be testing mine in wind for a start.
I like in your video how easily you can see line wiggle.
At around 4:20 you say the wiggling means sweeping more area... not sure that equates... maybe it is like a swimmers hand searching for still water to pull. I think the wiggles are lead from the top down though... So blades are more likely trying to hide from flow.
Very technically speaking

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17272 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: woeful marketing
Rudy Harburg deserves priority credit for this AWES concept space. Doug never has shown just how he "overcame" Rudy's core inventive contribution, nor does he fairly give credit to Rudy when hyping the "Selsam SuperTurbine" as "the solution to the energy crisis" and "all roads lead to the SuperTurbine".

Rod is fulfilling the collective spirit of "test everything" in carefully exploring this concept space, and the predicted scaling limit remains the maximum workable size of the spars. Doug seeks to present Rudy and Rod's worthy efforts (without hype) as somehow his own merit contribution, but seemingly added nothing technically essential to be specifically noted (adding a Darrieus rotor section hardly counts).



On Saturday, March 28, 2015 1:51 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Yes Doug there are definite similarities. They spin blades over a tensed line.
There are definite and non obvious differences... I'll be testing mine in wind for a start.
I like in your video how easily you can see line wiggle.
At around 4:20 you say the wiggling means sweeping more area... not sure that equates... maybe it is like a swimmers hand searching for still water to pull. I think the wiggles are lead from the top down though... So blades are more likely trying to hide from flow.
Very technically speaking

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17273 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias
Well known AWES track or cableway via layouts are circular or oval (KiteGen, NTS). In the same land footprint, by running traction vias in a close-packed serpentine pattern, its possible to greatly increase the overall kite field kite density, while maintaining minimal local separation space between kite neighbors. Endless layout variations could adapt to odd field shapes and varying wind direction far better than simple AWES loop tracks. Presuming a moving underground cableway like SF's famous cable cars engage, many kite units could haul on a common cable as a gangline, to be towed at low drag by the gangline during upwind return phases. Enabling technologies for Serpentine Layout are traction vias that easily bend around smaller radii. Its also attractive to flexibly vary vias in use, according to operational conditions, for maximal crosswind performance. Rerigging could be a routine process.

CC+ Open-AWE IP-Pool
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17274 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Rob Whittal's leading parafoil designs
There are very few great designers driving the parafoil wing revolution, and we have reviewed and follow many of them, but one top figure has until now eluded our direct notice; RobW of Ozone Gliders LTD, Ozone Power LTD, Ozone Kites LTD, etc.. The Ozone global network of star designers, team pros, and dealers, including stars like d'Armant, all leads back to Scotland, which came as a surprise.

The destined leaders in AWE may be the leading kite sport and sailmaker companies, who already have sustained revenue from their advanced wind power technologies. They need only pivot slightly to be major contenders in AWE, given that most of them even already have early AWE venture partners. Ozone seems poised to be the next Cabrinha-like entry into AWES R&D. What might beat the best kites in AWE, no one can say.

Check out Rob's state-of-the-art kite design (Chrono) and action-philosopher profile-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17275 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

If you want to densely pack an underground cable way over a field area... then a radial set up with nodal rotary PTO. fractal splitting like a compass rose out from the centre centroid of their described field area. would give a more flexible layout.
Sure if you have trade winds track back and forth across them all day.
But rotary like Selsam serpentine lends itself to cumulative feeding of 1 central gen really well....
Sketch to follow soon

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17276 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias
Yes, a radial star layout would be a top option for running a serpentine cableway for a kite farm.

The "Sky Serpent" is not serpentine in this kite-farm surface layout context  (winding around bull-wheels), which was referencing serpentine belt drive usage and action-






On Saturday, March 28, 2015 11:06 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
If you want to densely pack an underground cable way over a field area... then a radial set up with nodal rotary PTO. fractal splitting like a compass rose out from the centre centroid of their described field area. would give a more flexible layout.
Sure if you have trade winds track back and forth across them all day.
But rotary like Selsam serpentine lends itself to cumulative feeding of 1 central gen really well....
Sketch to follow soon


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17277 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Dr. Chris Vermillion's AWES R&D Roles
Chris is a lead consultant to Altaeros, and the sole non-EU representative (listed last) on the AWEC2015 program committee. His academic webpage highlights a strong enthusiasm for AWE-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17278 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Dr. Chris Vermillion's AWES R&D Roles
Chris also landed a large NSF grant and special award, part of a trend where a trickle of US AWE research is getting on by NSF funding, while DOE only bet on Makani, Google's equity investment-






On Saturday, March 28, 2015 1:11 PM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17279 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias
Here's a quick simple field packing algorithm.
Could be used for populating a field area with rotary kites which all feed back to the centre and need a certain amount of field edge clearance.
https://youtu.be/kR0xXkKVhc4

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17280 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Rob Whittal's leading parafoil designs
  • Internal Straps – Newly calculated internal span-wise straps distribute load across the sail evenly and effectively, while also maintaining a cohesive internal balance controlling the high aspect ratio.

It's a Mothr-a-like


Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17281 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias
Very Nice.

The question begs whether the power aggregation branch points will be located at the center of unit cells, or between cells, to separate the distinct functions from somehow interfering (tree leaves and branches do not occupy the same locations, but position side-by-side).



On Saturday, March 28, 2015 2:20 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
Here's a quick simple field packing algorithm.
Could be used for populating a field area with rotary kites which all feed back to the centre and need a certain amount of field edge clearance.
https://youtu.be/kR0xXkKVhc4

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17282 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias
Assuming each node of a triangulated mesh is the rotary PTO then each vertice can be used for clutch driven loop path.
Generation can then be done anywhere on the mesh. It becomes all live and all driving from each point... clutches have to be good.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17283 From: Rod Read Date: 3/28/2015
Subject: next test ready
Attachments :
    Can't wait to get this one out...
    Inline images 1
    There is a lead spar to hopefully combat the over rotation ring compression...

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17284 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Rob Whittal's leading parafoil designs
    Yes, the spanwise straps are a major parafoil advance, and future AWES kites will have them, but variants were known from several prior cases [ie. Storm Dunkerly, Springer AWE book]. Open-AWE's contribution is to see these as primary "loadpaths", and the key Mothra innovation is to infill naked rope loadpaths with sails sized up to the maximum unit-handling scale (roughly soccer-field size "kixels", by present COTS tech). We can build loadpath arches  
    • Internal Straps – Newly calculated internal span-wise straps distribute load across the sail evenly and effectively, while also maintaining a cohesive internal balance controlling the high aspect ratio.
    It's a Mothr-a-like

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17285 From: dave santos Date: 3/28/2015
    Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias
    But in a tree structure, the trunk line junctions become progressively larger, which means the otherwise constant unit kite cell centers are not one standard, but vary according to branching level. Common tree topology has leaves on twigs, twigs on branches, and branches on trunks; but not normally leaves growing right on trunks.

    A more detailed design study should reveal the potential problem described. A lot depends on whether the kite unit or trunk line have specific interference issues when overlaid.



    On Saturday, March 28, 2015 3:04 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Assuming each node of a triangulated mesh is the rotary PTO then each vertice can be used for clutch driven loop path.
    Generation can then be done anywhere on the mesh. It becomes all live and all driving from each point... clutches have to be good.

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17286 From: Rod Read Date: 3/29/2015
    Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias

    Yes, triangulated mesh infill avoids tree structure
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17287 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2015
    Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias
    But how do you "fan-in" many-to-one with a uniform triangle mesh? Don't we need to fan-in in discrete branch stages, and beef up the mechanical transmission links as the forces add together? The tree topology is after all how single solar cells are connected into large powerful aggregations, and also how parachute (risers and lines) and kite bridles are rigged; or how electrical networks are designed, etc..

    In the uniform triangle mesh transmission network, the distant cells (from the large gen) are over-built and near cells become overloaded weak links (a large embedded tree topology with no thick trunk).



    On Sunday, March 29, 2015 12:07 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
    Yes, triangulated mesh infill avoids tree structure
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17288 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2015
    Subject: Growing List of GW Unit-Scale AWES Concepts
    Let the AWES GW Unit Scale be roughly defined as systems with potential to scale from about 0.1GW to
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17289 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2015
    Subject: AWES iso-dome pumping model (flatfish mode)
    An megascale AWES iso-dome will inherently support strong wind-driven oscillations, but what sort of working modes are available? Normal harmonic modes of a disc do not reconcile well with sideways flow, however, flatfish locomotion, if envisioned running in reverse, suggests a natural pumping mode for an iso-dome, where the LE margin flaps vigorously, and can be tapped by rows of PTO lines. Imagine a polymer loadpath and membrane "flatfish" isodome 10km across, at 2-3km altitude, with this dynamic-
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17290 From: Rod Read Date: 3/29/2015
    Subject: Re: Serpentine Layout of AWES Kite Farm Traction Vias
    There's noting to stop mixing the two topologies to varying degrees... Triangulated mesh "leaf level" field areas where power is available locally can twig feed a branch line collected on a trunk.
    A hedge is more likely as a messy viral growth... than any singular tree with it's single point weaknesses.

    Lets make a really strong leaf... instead of having fixed ideas of the node points on the ground, hold them to circular path around the centre of the field.

    With field packing algorithms giving triangulated mesh pattern as described...
    Choose the largest circular approximation (or hexagon) size available from within the given mesh.
    Going up from the node points have spinning tube generators (or other tether using generation devices) of lengths so as they complement the form of a multi kixel wing over the field. Allow the spinners to rotate not only on their axis (tether line) but also move their PTO (line driving capstan) circularly around the centre of the field. Many inner rings and generator tethers per ring could have self weathercocking lift from a mesh form and keep on generating.

    cc4.0ncbysa+ open awes

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17291 From: Rod Read Date: 3/29/2015
    Subject: Re: AWES iso-dome pumping model (flatfish mode)
    I thought Leading edge flap was more of a flipwing phenomenon..
    given a vertical flipwing... To promote the inverting motion... Is the bottom more strictly bound than the top?
    Allowing the contained momentum in the top to overshoot and reverse the foil..
    I still don't get them... but i know they could be important if they can buzz, flap or hum at scale.

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    UK
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 17292 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2015
    Subject: Re: AWES iso-dome pumping model (flatfish mode)
    Attachments :
      LE flapping mode here is much like a horizontal flipwing flapping, except that a large stable fabric bubble backs it up and keeps it from plunging into the ground. The lip will recover first. This action, especially for a ring-slot design, is also like an aircraft with a skinny front wing that stalls and recovers faster than its rear wing (like Rutan's canards). Another new aspect to this model is the cool edge waves that travel around the margin like the Strandbeest undulating wings, or a symmetrically operating kinetic kite; except we are considering an all-soft greatly scalable wind device.

      Image result for strandbeest sails

      Inline image

      Image result for rutan canard




      On Sunday, March 29, 2015 12:45 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com  
      I thought Leading edge flap was more of a flipwing phenomenon..
      given a vertical flipwing... To promote the inverting motion... Is the bottom more strictly bound than the top?
      Allowing the contained momentum in the top to overshoot and reverse the foil..
      I still don't get them... but i know they could be important if they can buzz, flap or hum at scale.

      Rod Read

      Windswept and Interesting Limited
      15a Aiginis
      Isle of Lewis
      UK
      HS2 0PB

      07899057227
      01851 870878



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