I don't think "it takes all kinds of people."  Those who pretend they know, and polish that ability, get in the way and sideline those who focus on technical stuff.  Perhaps it was ever thus, but it is always a shock to logical, honest people. 

Ants are  barely intelligent enough  to navigate back  to the nest, so when a half-dozen of them are hauling a choice  crumb, most of them are pulling in the wrong direction, and only a slim majority prevails correctly.  Similarly, human society has evolved to the limits of human intelligence, and a committee  necessarily wastes most of its time.  Those who are technically competent are obliged to struggle against well-meaning fools and outright frauds to get a share of the funding.

Bob Stuart

Patents merely give an innovator an exclusive right in a limited geographic region, for a limited time. They don't stop anyone from developing any new technology, just regulate who can sell it in a select given region, on a given day, without paying royalties.

I don't see how anyone's patents are stopping anyone from hanging an off-the-shelf wind turbine from an off-the-shelf kite, and flying a successful airborne wind energy system tomorrow. What is it you need? Duct tape or baling wire to hang the turbine from the kite? I don't see what the big problem is here. Most AWE patents are expired anyway. The only thing stopping you... is you!
:)
Believe me I learned this long ago.
Stop worrying about everyone else, realize the world is full of lazy idiots, not to mention endless talkers substituting talk for action, and try not to act like them. =:O
Doug S.

Slowly catching up on old documentation.   The linked video shows an arch of tailless deltas flying robustly in turbulent wind over the Ilwaco cove. They soon enough crash flown singly in these conditions, but have yet to fail as a group. Current experiments fly mini AWECS off halyards hung between the kites. Airspace Infill Factor is very high.   http://www.energykitesystems.net/DaveSantos/deltarch.mpeg

Great Grant topic!  

And thanks, Grant,  for introducing a new term that is bound to stick!  Like it:  CoolIP.
Now we have three going:

FairIP    Award the innovator. Use Google search to find the innovator. Award her or him, if you use the innovation. Dare to share!

CoopIP   Cooperative IP for cooperations, collaborations, collectives, patent pools,  ...

CoolIP   Really neat and "cool" IP getting someone's special attention! 

I will enter several times the thread you started here, Grant.   Good topic.

On topic: for Big Energy, will people in democracies act strongly on AWECS effectiveness merit beyond the inventors battle? 
Tethered aviation Manhattan Project?  The U.S. government had rights to 1970s and 1980s AWEC patented tech enough to install a
wind replacement for Big Oil; such tech is in public domain. Will the people of U.S. act now while awarding creative builders and operators to install Big Wind?

JoeF

 

 

You have kites. You have wind turbines. A kite can lift a wind turbine. What is the problem? If you need a PhD to figure out what to do next, then that IS the problem.

I think college is today mostly an obsolete concept, dating from the 1800's when you had to have a building full of books, and going to that building was the only way to read the book. The affluent could afford to send their kids there, so it became "the only way to go" to achieve success in life. That was long ago. Now "smart" people remain convinced by mere tradition that their only path is to waste years of their otherwise most productive years sitting in a chair in large groups listening to people who are too scared to try anything new explain all that is impossible to them... After graduation they have now had 20 years of being trained to sit in a chair and do absolutely nothing all day long, along with 20 or 30 or even 120 other people doing the same thing, all pretending they are moving forward as fast as humanly possible. No wonder after they graduate they have no true path to follow, and seek the next situation where they can sit in a chair all day and accomplish nothing. That becomes the unconscious goal: do nothing and get paid for it.
Then you have the idea that somehow EVERYONE should go to college - after all, it's only fair isn't it? So then you have a country without a workforce - only "bosses" without workers, who cannot be bothered to actually DO anything, ever.
Doug Selsam
http://www.USWINDLABS.com

Grant,   Thanks for the thoughtful post. We should debug fairIP/coopIP as needed to prevent your nightmare scenario. Note that the Flash of Genius movie is about a small-patent-holder/inventor robbed by Ford Motors. FairIP/coopIP, on the other hand, is an EXPERIMENTAL way for little-folk to avoid the "wrecking struggle" of patent war. Such disclosure gives up patent rights, replacing them with a voluntary "honor system". The sanction reserved is a right to ridicule & boycott any VC effort to commercialize key ideas without cooperative relationships with creators.   Yes, the Idol Bashing & Selsam-Santos debates are tedious, but they do weed out the less diligent & easily offended from the forum. I have very high hopes for Joby Energy's transparency & agility, especially when they openly stumble & laugh; but Google/Makani has hidden shortcomings still unclear to outside observers. Let the business press continue to fawn over marketing-driven AWE while smart investment carefully weighs our inside critiques,   daveS

http://utrf.tennessee.edu/faculty/Impact_of_PD%202-16-09.pdf
speaks to some of Grant's points.

All are invited to add links to the folder:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AirborneWindEnergy/links/Protecting_IP_001275092320/

Hello All, To help maintain the focus of this forum on Technical Discuss for the Rapid Advancement and Deployment of Airborne WInd Energy, a new Yahoo Group for a non-technical forum on Airborne Wind Energy is now open but exclusive to only registered members of the Airborne Wind Energy Industry and strictly for nor non-technical issues. Soon, we should be doing a house cleaning of previous posts on this forum to maintain a clean technical slate. Thanks to all for your kind cooperations. Best of lifts.  JohnO     Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

Grant, you wrote-

http://airbornewindenergy.com/V/1.html

Red Kite Wind Energy, 2 Minute Mini-pitch

"I'm trying to spin my airborne (kite) wind energy PhD research from Sussex University into a company"

Cheer him on ...

Allister Furey (Red Kite Energy)
Red Kite Wind Energy develops high altitude wind energy systems. These systems are the successors to conventional wind turbines, using tethered wings to capture the wind energy instead of blades and towers. We plan to sell or lease systems rated at c.200kW (enough for 50 homes) within 5 years. Until then, we will be offering consultancy and technical services to other companies in the sector to generate some cash flow, we also may use our wings as advertising platforms to generate supplemental income.

Clip source for above text:

http://www.shell-livewire.org/news/1273161656.815/

A common kite system has a top & bottom with discrete layers between. Interconnecting many such systems in semi-captive mode enables creation of dense arrays of AWECS elements that maximize land & airspace. These KiteFarms will be highly stratified/staged structures resembling the spatial organization of microchips, but on a vast scale in the sky. Dense array strata include-

Cool, you guys saw this, it's an attempt to repeat the feat of Rob at Windlift and found a company with Business plan competition winnings. Any votes will be appreciated but be aware any winnings will go straight to the patent attorneys!

Kite Test 2

 

A+  for the 1st half of  the 1st video, D for the next  video, and F  for not posting the link to where you want the votes.

Bob Stuart

Voting is closed on Allister Furey's video.

However, Allister Furey won one of the prizes!

Congratulations, Allister!

http://www.afurey.com/

http://kiteenergy.blogspot.com/

[[Subscription space: AWE Sector:    More  ]]  [[Subscribe ]]

There was no link unfortunately, you had to register to get through so I
couldn't provide one.
Allister

Bob Stuart wrote:

Good luck. I found that the world of business is less predictable than
engineering. FWIW, one of the 1st things I did when I got a good idea
was to pay for a patent search. It came up with some I hadn't seen, but
missed many that I had, which would have made any more work a waste. I
decided to look for a patent attorney who would bet with me by working
on contingency as a partner.

There was one who believed in his own product, though, and got an idea
of his own, noticing that not every possible combination of wheels and
pedals had been patented at the turn of the century. He blew 4 mil
trying to make the one he patented worth buying, the Thebis.

Coming from the world of electronics, James Lancaster recommends
publishing everything, and trying to be first producer on any scale you
can manage. This can lead to a salary to work somewhere, or at least
shut up.

Best,
Bob Stuart

 A note re: LLJ       low-level jets

Global Assessment of High-Altitude Wind Power
Ken Caldeira and Cristina  L. Archer 
Full article: http://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/2/2/307/pdf

Energies

2009, 2, 307-319. Received: 20 April 2009; in revised form: 15 May 2009 / Accepted: 18 May 2009 / Published: 26 May 2009

 Their emphasis was on the jet streams as robust resource. "Because of their abundance, strength, and relative persistency, jet stream winds are of particular interest in wind power development."    However, they made a point:

Caldeira and Archer: "Although in general wind speed increases with height, altitudes at which winds are strongest can vary, depending on the weather conditions. For example, low-level jets cause wind maxima at the top of the boundary layer [20], ~1,000 m above ground. Obvious benefits would arise if a high-altitude technology were able to dynamically reach this "optimal" height."

20. Stensrud, D. Importance of low-level jets to climate: A review. J. Clim. 1996, 9, 1698-1711.

At November 2009 HAWP Conference  there was hardly time to cover all the topics that so many hand on mind.  Near closing, Cristina Archer acknowledged the incompleteness of wind studies and asked the assemble researchers for ideas about what and how she might study winds to serve AWE.  Wayne German brought up strongly that low-level jets (LLJ) probably hold the most promise for AWE, and that mastery over LLJ locations, causes, behavior, nature, and strengths would be very fruitful.         http://tinyurl.com/LLJgeneralLIFT

JoeF

WPI ::     Worcester Polytechnic Institute 

Aerial Wind Turbine
in  61 pages.  Click image for full paper.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Much more in AWE Sector with aweaccess  on WPI 

 

Subscribe to the entire AWE Sector.]]

 

 

 

 

A Major Qualifying Project
Report Submitted to the faculty Of Worcester Polytechnic Institute

In partial fulfillment of the requirements for the Degree of Bachelor of Science
Submitted By:
Kevin Martinez
Andrew McIsaac
Devin Thayer
Advisor: Professor Gretar Tryggvason  
Date: April 30, 2009

Arianpour, Badii, Ramazani  High Altitude Energy  2/12/2010

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/25380668/Kite-Power-Generation

 

An Affordable and Rapidly Deployable Wind Turbine for Grid Power Generation, Hydrogen Generation, Large Scale Water Purification or Water Desalination and Humanitarian Relief Operations

by Anush Badii of La Jolla, California

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/25380471/Rapidly-Deployable-Wind-Turbine

 

Interesting: Hang off-the-shelf wind turbines from an off-the-shelf blimp. The document targets a 1.5 megawatt installation. Starting with the heavy blades, heavy Gearboxes, etc. there is a LOT of structure that needs to be lifted.
1) A design like this could be built at a small scale for perhaps less cost and effort than preparing this document. Let's look at how wind turbines have evolved: Small ones first til the bugs get worked out. The fact that nobody is simply hanging a small wind turbine from a small blimp is indicative to me that nobody is that serious about getting anything actually working, since that demo could be built this week and run next week, with little doubt as to the result.
2) Superturbine(R) technology has promise to deliver more power for less weight. The Vestas turbines are heavier than the optimum machine for airborne use, I believe.
At least they are looking at the possibilities, but I didn't know a Goodyear blimp could lift that many hundreds of tons!
-Doug Selsam

I think red kite had a point in substituting kites for blade tips of a turbine. The main job of most of a turbine blade is simply to support the blade tips. A blade tip is known in the art of wind energy as "the outboard section" of the blade. From that standpoint, why not start with replacing the blades of an existing turbine with kites? Again here is a project that could yield fruit now, without any regulatory excuses why it can't be done right away.
Doug Selsam

Redirecting this back to the Red Kite thread...   ========================================   What is meant by the many AWE commentators is to imagine taking ONLY a conventional turbine's bladetips to a far higher altitude, without towers, hubs, etc.. Little is gained by replacing the blades of an existing turbine with kites. The tower is still a huge capital cost, added gearing is required, & ~98% availabilty would be lost.   Re: the other points; there are no excessive regulatory barriers to AWE done right & the R & D business is already booming. Small scale AWE design is quite ready to "yield fruit" to anyone who wants to do production & marketing; it will be a huge market.   Red Kite sees the opportunity & should do well on the reasonable timeline presented.

Precision heavy lifting by kite & variable tri-tether has been explored in this forum. A related idea is to use a small Tri-Tether (COTS) Aerostat to-

http://www.physorg.com/news194851568.html

kewl!

 

http://tinyurl.com/oneLOADBINDER

 

 

This may be a good opportunity for AWE to come the the rescue and make an impact. Kite powered boom line tugs with wireless web cams so people could pull the booms in front of the streaks before they hit shore. tri-tether cranes that pick and place or skim and pump. Lots of possibilities for a fast development and deployment. I'm guessing wind direct may be a problem for kite over sea operated from the beach plans but maybe releasing and auto drum skimmer with oil bagger storage that heads upwind being launched from down wind of the plumes and you could cut a line through it. I've been talking with allot of the engineers on theoildrum.com and everyone seems to be saying it will probably be September before it's plugged so that's allot of oil to clean up or even better intercept so if you have and can demonstrate a good idea you can probably get BP to fund it. I'm sure AWE tech is going to be allot faster and cheaper than anything else they can come up with and right now their balls are in one hell of a vise. Investing in green solutions is exactly the kind of PR they need if they have any hope of living much longer....... I'm not saying AWE should whore out for their PR machine, I'm just saying their balls are in one hell of a vise.....that aaaaaand Joe 6pack is just about ready to try something new.
-brooks

________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com

Connect an electric car (like a Tesla) to an electric airplane (like a Joby or Makani prototype) by a long conductive tether. Then-   While awaiting flight automation, one can already do the above by skill in the arts. A quick cheap option is a flygen turbine hung under a lifter-kite connected to a golf cart.   fairIP/coopIP

DAD, June 9, 2010

I pray to the ocean as my God....There is no difference to me...
I give my heart, my tears, my love..... what will we do ?
Do you watch the news ? Do you know how bad this REALLY is?

We need inventors and scientist to brainstorm every day... Then we need to try... is your brain at work ? Please try I know you think outside of the box..... The answer is outside of the box somewhere...

With Love and faith...

a very sad Joy

Over the last month since I first noticed the odd attempts they were trying, I started focusing my efforts on coming up with a well shut down solution to pass along to the well fix idea hot line. Details are very hard to come by and so much needed info is not being made available but most are working under the assumption that the well is too damaged to attempt a plug from above. Although the idea center did indicate that the have a team preparing the solution myself and others came up with but chances are they will just try to ride it out with the capture and store plan.
  With that in mind I am refocusing my plans toward wind and wave powered skimmers and pumpers. Some type of super cheap rolling drum with a sqeegy directing the oil into a garbage bag fitted to the trap. AWE powered oil slick spotter cameras could also be a big help down there. Something that could be made in mass and placed at points along the most sensitive areas so that the limited booms can be positioned where they can have the most effect. Just the kind of deployment AWE would be best suited for. I'll try to keep you posted on any real progress.
-brooks

Brooks, etc.,   This problem is closely related the Ocean Trash Gyre challenge.   What really makes the oil skimming mission plausible is that the sorbent "sponges" can be wrung out repeatedly & reused indefinitely. A collector ship can run along the boom with a wringer & fill up with oil.   I have worked out a basic spiral-boom slow-sailing tactic that follows normal wind veering as weather systems track thru a region. I'll make some small experiments. Austin, Texas has successfully long used trash booms across creeks feeding into Town Lake. Surprisingly, this was an idea concocted by a city council member (Louise Epstein).   We'll keep at it,   dave

Wind Companies to Adapt... or Die
By Nick Hodge |
Comment on this Article
Wednesday, June 9th, 2010

This year will be the first since 2004 that the United States' wind industry won't surpass its previous year's growth.

And every report I read about the industry seems to be filled with buts, whiles, yets, and howevers...

Last year was a record-breaking year, with about 9.8 gigawatts installed. But the industry is in for a 40 to 60% drop this year, with analysts expecting anywhere from 6.3 GW to 7.1 GW to be installed...

While the U.S. has expansive coastal wind resources, offshore is expected to account for only 5% of installations by 2025...

Texas, Minnesota, and California have long been wind hot spots, yet transmission congestion, lackluster utility demand, and cheap natural gas have led to a significant reduction in the amount of power purchase agreements signed...

There has actually been unprecedented levels of federal support for wind energy. However, without a federal renewable portfolio standard (RPS) and streamlined transmission and siting processes, the time for projects to become operational will be greatly delayed...

A Shift of Global Winds

I know that sugarcoating bad news helps soften the blow, but when you're staring at a potential 60% one-year drop in wind installations — immediately following a year of record growth — there's no room for coddling.

Alarm bells should be going off:

Wind Companies: Vestas, Nordex, Clipper, First Trust Wind

That's a one-year chart of some of the biggest pure wind plays on the market, along with the First Trust Global Wind Energy ETF (NYSE: FAN) — all are down 20% to 50% for the period. Others that operate solely in the U.S., like Broadwind Energy (NASDAQ: BWEN), are down even more.

So let's not ignore the problems...

Financing is still tight because of the recession. Electricity demand is down because of the recession. Natural gas has been insanely cheap. Readily available sites with the best wind speeds next to transmission are nearly exhausted.

And as a result, the industry is now facing an oversupply of wind turbines. Related stocks have been punished accordingly.

It's been a tough turn-around for what was once the most dominant cleantech industry. And it's forcing some much-needed changes.

Adapt or Die

According to Bloomberg New Energy Finance: "To compete in the era of low-priced natural gas, the levelised cost of wind generation must drop substantially on a MWh basis. This means the industry cannot sit on its laurels but must re-dedicate itself to technological innovation."

The energy world is evolving. And it's time to adapt or die.

As such, the big boys have gone back to the drawing board.

Siemens is now producing a 3.6 MW direct-drive turbine that has no need for gears...

Vestas has two new models that can capture lower wind speeds with larger rotors...

And GE (NYSE: GE), known for its 1.5 MW onshore turbine, is now taking orders for its new 4 MW offshore model, the first of which will go to Lake Erie.

Again, I'm not going to sugarcoat or dismiss the challenges facing the industry.

As Bloomberg put it, "The big players are seeking ways to improve turbine performance so the devices perform better and more consistently at lower wind speeds. This is in part recognition that the lowest hanging fruit is now gone with most of the windiest spots developed. Class 3 winds are what is left to develop and the industry must adapt to that reality."

So investing is going to be tricky.

The companies in the chart above are at or close to their 52-week lows; and it's difficult to pinpoint any major positive catalysts in the near future.

If you're looking for a discounted wind buy, I'd stick to the Asian players or the larger conglomerates that won't be as adversely affected should the industry continue to stall.

Remember, China is now the largest onshore wind market in the world. And a plan to add 30 GW of offshore capacity by 2020 would put them ahead of the UK's ambitious 25 GW by 2020 target.

Not only that, but reports coming out of the recent American Wind Energy Association conference in Dallas show that Chinese and South Korean companies drew the largest crowds at breakout sessions and in the exhibit hall.

There will be ways to profit from this industry (A-Power (NASDAQ: APWR) and China Wind Systems (NASDAQ: CWS) come to mind)...

It'll just require more research and precision than before.

Call it like you see it,

Nick Hodge

Nick

Japan's IKAROS  teases
atmospheric photovoltaic sails in AWECS
for multiple energy generation in one system over real estate featuring cash crops,
so the planning goes.

Moving surfaces still receive the shine of the sun; let both the moving and the shine work for generating energy.

http://online.qmags.com/PVW0510/  Shows some static surfaces over cash animals; fly working solar-energy conversion surfaces on tethers which tethers will work still.

Instructor here includes in his instruction a similar doubling opportunity:

 

  Surfaces could be solar energy converters, tuggers, boom  or drum workers, and hydro-turbine drivers.

FairIP/CoopIP

Hi all,

My technical paper about  OKB has been accepted by the WEC for publication and for presentation at Congrès Mondial de l'Énergie 2010 .

I thank Harry Valentine for the information and for contacts,and Joe Faust and Dave Santos for advices.

I must give the response for registration and provide the registration fee (1700 CA $) on June 15.

My actual position is no registration (too heavy with travel etc.,and in rapport with my profession),only publication.

But before a definitive decision I would like your advice about an eventual registration?Do you think a presentation at Congress would be necessary?

PierreB

http://contest.techbriefs.com/sustainable-technologies-2010/484
Same:   
Lighter-Than-Air Airborne Wind Turbine 

Welcome, Peter.

JoeF

 http://www.energykitesystems.net/PeterHoffman/index.html

Pierre,   Congratulations on the acceptance of your paper by WEC. The personal contacts you make if you attend can be more exciting than just publication (especially if you get to meet Harry). You might serve as ambassador for the entire AWE field & could present yourself as such, surely with AWEIA's strong endorsement.   Your OKB concept is nicely related to those who also seek to closely pack maximum kite into limited airspace. Wayne German in particular has been promoting "vertical blinds" sweeping just as your kites do. A challenge of your early design as depicted is keeping the kites from crossing when wind direction changes. Launching & landing with minimal fuss will also require considerable ingenuity. But these are typical resolvable issues.   If you are on a really cheap budget, like most of us. you can also decline to register, use the savings for development, & still self-publish your paper on your website with the statement "accepted for publication by the World Energy Congress".   daveS

Dave,

In fact OKB is an aspect of the paper;another aspect is the eventual
place of AWE into global energy.

PierreB

--- In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, dave santos <santos137@... wrote:
contacts you make if you attend can be more exciting than just
publication (especially if you get to meet Harry). YouÂ
might serve as ambassador for the entire AWE field & could
present yourself as such, surely with AWEIA's strong endorsement.
pack maximum kite into limited airspace. Wayne German in particular
has been promoting "vertical blinds" sweeping just as your kites do. A
challenge of your early design as depicted is keeping the kites from
crossing when wind direction changes. Launching & landing with minimal
fuss will also require considerable ingenuity. But these are typicalÂ
resolvable issues.
decline to register, use the savings for development, & stillÂ
self-publish your paper on your website with the statement "accepted
for publication by the World Energy Congress".
for publication and for presentation at Congrès Mondial de
l'Énergie 2010 .
Faust and Dave Santos for advices.
fee (1700 CA $) on June 15.
in rapport with my profession), only publication.
eventual registration? Do you think a presentation at Congress would be
necessary?