Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES15550to15600 Page 206 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15550 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: D.U.M.B.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15551 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Active AWES nations and language challenge

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15552 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: KiteSport Optimist Model for AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15553 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Submarine Net and Boom Defenses as AWES Similarity Case

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15554 From: Rod Read Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Child of "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading by Kite Spreadikng

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15555 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Child of "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading by Kite Spreadikng

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15556 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: KiteSport Optimist Model for AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15557 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: KiteSport Optimist Model for AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15558 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: "1 million flies can't be wrong"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15559 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: "1 million flies can't be wrong"

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15560 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Baseload Energy, Inc. v. Roberts

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15561 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Flying electric generators with clean air rotors

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15563 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Ammonia-Hydrogen Cycle Storage as ideal Pumping AWES App?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15564 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Near-vacuum-operating tether-based AWES in outer space

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15565 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Near-vacuum-operating tether-based AWES in outer space

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15566 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Ammonia-Hydrogen Cycle Storage as ideal Pumping AWES App?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15567 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Nuke Emergency Response by means of Kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15568 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Clean air to safeguard cities using kite systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15569 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Walking Kite Systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15570 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Walking Kite Systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15571 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: RAD: Retarded Airborne (wind energy) Development

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15572 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Walking Kite Systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15573 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: (WO2010126863) SYSTEM FOR GENERATING ELECTRIC POWER FROM FLUID CURRE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15574 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: This was not cited by Sky WindPower for the calm phase

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15575 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Jinho Kim of Korea

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15576 From: dougselsam Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Jinho Kim of Korea

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15577 From: dougselsam Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: (WO2010126863) SYSTEM FOR GENERATING ELECTRIC POWER FROM FLUID C

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15578 From: dougselsam Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Walking Kite Systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15579 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: AWES Aloft Winches

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15580 From: dougselsam Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: AWES Aloft Winches

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15581 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Walking Kite Systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15582 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Creative Commons Licensing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15583 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Creative Commons Licensing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15584 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: RAD: Retarded Airborne (wind energy) Development

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15585 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Jinho Kim of Korea

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15586 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: AWES Aloft Winches

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15587 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Walking Kite Systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15588 From: benhaiemp Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Patent and Creative Commons license

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15589 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Patent and Creative Commons license

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15590 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: The Secret of High-Altitude AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15591 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Article by George J. Varney

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15592 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Offerings 100% to Public Domain

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15593 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Stabilising a lift kite

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15594 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15595 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15596 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Offerings 100% to Public Domain

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15597 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15598 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15599 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15600 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15550 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: D.U.M.B.
Doug seems to insist the Sky Serpent and yardstick ST never were "up and running". Everybody else seems to understand that hundreds of AWES experiments have worked, and its now just a matter of optimizing and scaling up to eventually meet market energy prices.

Let D.U.M.B. be only Doug's unique personal view of AWE, while others see "SMART" just as consistently.


On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:04 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15551 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Active AWES nations and language challenge
Doug just gives in to despair more easily, rather than persevere and triumph. Fortunately its not contagious, just D.U.M.B..


On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:12 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15552 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: KiteSport Optimist Model for AWE
The optimistic side of AWE R&D is driven by the KiteSport Experience (including HG and PG) [1]. Until you have mastered wind and kite, and felt the joyous power in body and heart, you cannot really know AWE is Real.

DeanJ's Asian Master taught, "All kite flying is good". Even toy kites are powerful AWE research tools. Toy experiments and KiteSports are the bunny-slope of future AWE. No one working in kite tech is fatalistic about the future, "as long as the wind shall blow". 

Catch the magic KiteSport Wave to AWE Paradise. Pick your kite and :)

---------

Notes: 

[1] AWE has many great academics too (Quest-for-Knowledge Optimist Model for AWE).
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15553 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Submarine Net and Boom Defenses as AWES Similarity Case
This handbook treatment JoeF found of anti-sub net and boom methods is full of practical art for rigging large tensile arrays to handle powerful forces, just as AWE demands. There is a fine standard of seamanship and rigging safety culture here, and the engineering emphasis on absorbing surge-forces is especially apt for AWE. This is also an ideal how-to guide for ocean current apps-

Net and Boom Defenses


image

Net and Boom Defenses
Folks, Net and Boom Defenses, Ordnance Pamphlet 636A, 1944, shows how Net and Boom defenses were used to protect ships and harbors from submarines and...

View on hnsa.org
Preview by Yahoo

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15554 From: Rod Read Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Child of "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading by Kite Spreadikng
AWE System reflection in the underwater realm are well discussed.

Considering all of the muck deposited by humankind into the marine environment...
Maybe such has nutrient value and a neutralised odour by now

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15555 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Child of "Pick-and-Place" : Muck Spreading by Kite Spreadikng
The counter view to "muck spreading" is that its not the most natural and efficient method to place fertility at a crop's roots. A lot of fertility is lost as greenhouse gas (Methane and CO2), or as organic run-off into aquifers and waterways; which is hardly the finest way to apply kite energy.

Most natural "muck" (wetlands and tundra) should remain in place as an essential carbon sink, and soil fertility can be developed and maintained by more sensitive methods that natural farming experts have validated. Moving water around sustainably by means of kites seems more universal and essential. Moving muck around by kite may mostly be a dredging market, not a spreading market.

Our job is to focus on developing the fundamental kite pick-and-place methods, without falling into the wrong niche app. Lets be careful not to be trapped or swept away by distractive influences, whether a myriad-niche-trap or junk-patent-flood. I do not think Doug and Rod were serious here (just "mucking around").


On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 12:58 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15556 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: KiteSport Optimist Model for AWE
MORE:   even when wind bloweth not!  Though pumping energy into the calmed tethered wing is ancient, we also are in an infancy as regards CALM KITING. When calm, ancients still had tethered-wing wing running. In later eras towing, winching, bull-wheeling-line flying have found uses of significance. And in AWE we are seeing altitude maintence via towing, try-or-more-tether tugging, phased tugging, step towing. A railed iron train could fly a kite system across continents (especially if there were not blocking bridges, tunnels, or power lines  : )  ).  A powered airplane may tow a kite system around the world. A raft in a river could tow a tethered AWES. Just how much will calm kiting serve practical needs?  We are at a beginning on calm kiting AWES ... purposeful kiting without ambient wind.     ~ JoeF


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <santos137@yahoo.com research tools. Toy experiments and KiteSports are the bunny-slope of future AWE. No one working in kite tech is fatalistic about the future, "as long as the wind shall blow". 

Catch the magic KiteSport Wave to AWE Paradise. Pick your kite and :)

---------

Notes: 

[1] AWE has many great academics too (Quest-for-Knowledge Optimist Model for AWE).
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15557 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: KiteSport Optimist Model for AWE
Joe,

Yes, it only gets better for AWE optimists. KiteSports already use towing and pumping to supplement wind. One learns to pump added muscle energy into a sport kite even during wind, to boost performance.

"As long as the winds shall blow" is of course a Native American expression meaning "as long as wind exists anywhere". Wind in this sense is the geostrophic balance (as an average) of fossil momentum from the Big Bang, in interaction with Sunlight, and wind lulls are just a local POV illusion (given that all air must always be in motion relative to the swirling cosmos).

Lets allow the Indian sense of the phrase to stand as is, and recognize that sport kites and our AWES concepts  can transfer power both directions, as natural physics,

daveS




On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 1:52 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15558 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: "1 million flies can't be wrong"
I'm sure we've all seen the common graffiti message on bathroom walls.  I first saw it at summer camp.  Probably most common on outdoor bathrooms, the kind that have to be pumped by truck and meanwhile attract flies - lots of flies.
The message is "eat sh**, 1 million flies can't be wrong!".  I think of this saying every time I see "one more" kite-reeling scheme. 

The first question is "Have you taken into account all the previous kite-reeling schemes, identified why none is in operation today, and does your scheme solve whatever problems held the last one back?"  Seems obvious, but if one is in the thinking mode of a fly, well, why bother to check such things?  Just do what flies do and go for the first thing that attracts you.

Anyway, sure we've had plenty of demos of various schemes, me included, although I have so far tried to stay away from being just "one more fly", the fact is, nowhere on Earth can you find an AWE system in daily operation.  Nowhere does one see an autonomous AWE system that starts and stops by itself in response to the wind or lack of wind.  Nowhere do we see unattended launch and landing. 

In short, with a thousand patents, supposedly by "smart" people, and hundreds of declared programs to conquer AWE or at least utilize it, we still have a record of zero for anyone actually pulling it off, in the sense of anything more than a brief demo.  That is what I mean by "deployed anywhere".  I mean, like a real wind energy system, producing usable, economical power, but more importantly, operating on a regular basis.

I believe the problem is people would LIKE to achieve AWE, but the reality is, they are too DUMB.  They can't do it because they do not have the skill, knowledge, or stick-to-it-ive-ness to make it happen.  It's simply too difficult.  They can't think their way out of that paper bag.  If someone doesn't tell them exactly what to do, they are lost.  Most are merely delusional that they are targeting a workable solution at all, suffering from "The Professor Crackpot Syndrome".  The rest may have identified a workable solution, but are unable to implement it.  No amount of PhD education or number of grad students seems to matter.  At some point, you reach tasks that can only be solved by people who just naturally "get it".  To see this many people trying to grab something right there in front of us, but unable to do so, is interesting, very interesting... :)  And it's pretty funny too.  :)))
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15559 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: "1 million flies can't be wrong"
Doug wrote: "Nowhere does one see an autonomous AWE system that starts and stops by itself in response to the wind or lack of wind.  Nowhere do we see unattended launch and landing. "

Doug overlooks that kPower and KLG have long repeatedly demonstrated experimental AWES that consistently self-relaunch after calm (since 2007), and have run them in many continuous sessions up to three weeks (spring 2014) with hundreds of launch-land-relaunch cycles. SkySails, Makani, and other teams have also demoed systems capable of landing and relaunching autonomously.

The true reason state-of-the-art AWES experiments are not yet run indefinitely yet is that professional engineers keep moving on to the next developmental prototypes. Daily operation of TRL-9 AWES is only coming thanks to the natural rapid succession of prototypes. 

The FAA also requires our high-flying AWES, as UAS, to be attended by a PIC and VO, but Doug seems to think unattended AWE is more strategic. Doug sadly cannot compete with current AWES reeling performance with driveshafts, nor serenely accept reeling as a historic stepping stone to future AWE. His lack of awareness of ongoing AWE progress, combined with a "bathroom standard" of public expression, is self-defeating.








On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 2:31 PM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15560 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Baseload Energy, Inc. v. Roberts
Incomplete notice of this matter had some mention in forum. This topic thread is dedicated to a study of the case with a view to moving closer to wisdom relative to patent IP in the AWE community. And in the study, perhaps there could be some RAD matters highlighted. 

 BASELOAD ENERGY, INC., v. ROBERTS October 27 2008 - BRYAN W. ROBERTS sued by BASELOAD ENERGY, INC., for patent infringement in District of Columbia District Court Create Alert https://search.rpxcorp.com/lit/dcdce-133707-baseload-energy-v-roberts#

 

 1:08-cv-01838 
Filed: 10/27/2008 
 Closed: 12/18/2012 
 Latest Docket Entry: 12/19/2012

===============
What was the final resolution among the parties?
What about the validity of claims in the AWES tech?
What is in the public domain as regards claims by Roberts and Sky WindPower?
What in the 52 docket documents is historically interesting for the history of modern AWE?
Baseload Energy, Inc. decided to have the case dismissed: 

=====DECISION/JUDGEMENT

12/14/2012 STIPULATION of Dismissal by BASELOAD ENERGY, INC.,. (Attachments: # 1 Text of Proposed Order proposed order) (Weyrauch, John) (Entered: 12/14/2012)
12/18/2012 ORDER on stipulation dismissing entire action with prejudice. Signed by Judge Paul L. Friedman on December 18, 2012. (MA) (Entered: 12/18/2012)

===== 

Is it public WHY the request for dismissal was made?  Maybe this information was already posted; sorry, if so; but such could gather here, if known. 

What is Baseload Energy, Inc. doing now in AWE?  What is occurring with Sky WindPower?  What AWE actions is Roberts performing?   Primary source reporting is invited.


 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15561 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Flying electric generators with clean air rotors
This patent application is beyond the patent that was in focus in the dispute between Baseload Energy, Inc. v. Roberts. 
======================
The subject patent processed citations:

Cited PatentFiling datePublication dateApplicantTitle
US3002712 *Feb 1, 1957Oct 3, 1961Beckwith SterlingPolycopter
US4874291 *May 20, 1988Oct 17, 1989University Of SydneyRotor arrangement for a rotorcraft
US5971320 *Aug 26, 1997Oct 26, 1999Jermyn; Phillip MatthewHelicopter with a gyroscopic rotor and rotor propellers to provide vectored thrust
US6781254 *Oct 17, 2002Aug 24, 2004Bryan William RobertsWindmill kite
US7109598 *Oct 18, 2004Sep 19, 2006Bryan William RobertsPrecisely controlled flying electric generators III
US7183663 *Aug 17, 2004Feb 27, 2007Bryan William RobertsPrecisely controlled flying electric generators
US8292215 *Oct 3, 2011Oct 23, 2012Draganfly Innovations Inc.Helicopter with folding rotor arms
US8646720 *May 10, 2011Feb 11, 2014Donald Orval ShawModular flight vehicle with wings
US8695919 *Nov 10, 2011Apr 15, 2014Sky Sapience Ltd.Aerial unit and method for elevating payloads
US20050061910 *Sep 3, 2004Mar 24, 2005Aloys WobbenAircraft
US20060226281 *Nov 15, 2005Oct 12, 2006Walton Joh-Paul CDucted fan vertical take-off and landing vehicle
US20060266881 *Jan 4, 2006Nov 30, 2006Hughey Electricopter CorporationVertical takeoff and landing aircraft using a redundant array of independent rotors
US20080006737 *Sep 21, 2007Jan 10, 2008Aloys WobbenAircraft
US20080048065 *Dec 22, 2005Feb 28, 2008Julian KuntzFlying Device With Improved Movement on The Ground
US20090008499 *Feb 19, 2008Jan 8, 2009Donald Orval ShawModular flying vehicle
US20100013236 *Jul 17, 2009Jan 21, 2010Baseload Energy,Inc.Tether handling for airborne electricity generators
US20100044499 *Aug 22, 2008Feb 25, 2010Draganfly Innovations Inc.Six rotor helicopter
US20100108801 *Jul 16, 2009May 6, 2010Orville OlmDual rotor helicopter with tilted rotational axes
US20100243794 *May 29, 2009Sep 30, 2010Alien Technologies LtdFlying apparatus
US20100283253 *May 20, 2010Nov 11, 2010Bevirt JoebenTethered Airborne Power Generation System With Vertical Take-Off and Landing Capability
US20100295320 *May 20, 2010Nov 25, 2010Bevirt JoebenAirborne Power Generation System With Modular Electrical Elements
US20100295321 *May 20, 2010Nov 25, 2010Bevirt JoebenMethod for Generating Electrical Power Using a Tethered Airborne Power Generation System
US20110057453 *Feb 26, 2010Mar 10, 2011Bryan William RobertsTethered airborne wind-driven power generator
US20110121570 *Jun 18, 2010May 26, 2011Bevirt JoebenSystem and method for controlling a tethered flying craft using tether attachment point manipulation
US20120056041 *Nov 29, 2010Mar 8, 2012Dream Space World CorporationUnmanned Flying Vehicle Made With PCB
US20120104763 *Nov 3, 2011May 3, 2012Damon Vander LindKite configuration and flight strategy for flight in high wind speeds
US20120138732 *Oct 3, 2011Jun 7, 2012Draganfly Innovations Inc.Helicopter with folding rotor arms
US20120152654 *Dec 15, 2010Jun 21, 2012Robert MarcusUav-delivered deployable descent device
US20130105635 *Oct 31, 2011May 2, 2013King Abdullah II Design and Development BureauQuad tilt rotor vertical take off and landing (vtol) unmanned aerial vehicle (uav) with 45 degree rotors
* Cited by examiner
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15563 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Ammonia-Hydrogen Cycle Storage as ideal Pumping AWES App?
Pumping high pressures to make Ammonia as a Hydrogen Fuel storage enabler may be an AWES killer-app (compare with cryogenic energy storage, also advancing)-

Hydrogen breakthrough could be a game-changer for the future of car fuels

Haber process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

 

image
 

 
 
 
 

Haber process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Haber process, also called the Haber–Bosch process, is the industrial implementation of the reaction of nitrogen gas and hydrogen gas. It is the main industrial...

View on en.wikipedia.org
Preview by Yahoo

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15564 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Near-vacuum-operating tether-based AWES in outer space
This topic thread is dedicated to tether-based AWES that operate in near-vacuum outer space. 
=========
Consider FFAWE multiple-wing-multiple-tether kite energy systems in outer space interacting with space's sparse particle flows and space's photon, rays, and plasma flows. 

Consider resistive set of kite energy systems anchored on comets, planets, asteroids, space vehicles, space debris, etc.  Have wings and tethers in the kite systems; have such tethered airfoils include various WECs that interact with the various near-vacuum media to obtain energy conversions to do various practical works. 

Distinguish this topic from non-tethered sailing space devices that have some following. 

What are some of the purposes involved? Practical tasks? Objectives?

From time to time, drop a note into this thread. 

~ JoeF


 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15565 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Near-vacuum-operating tether-based AWES in outer space
Clean up space-junk with deceleration methods similar to those used in submarine net and boom defenses. Over time, space-junk nets could range widely over a large effective area, by solar sailing. Small nets could target specific objects and catch them at fairly high velocity. Facilities like the ISS could be shielded from space-junk like ships at mooring, by solar-sail driven tensile defenses.

Some time ago we covered asteroid deflection and capture by solar-sail kites, tethers, and nets.


On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 5:06 PM, "Joe Faust joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15566 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Ammonia-Hydrogen Cycle Storage as ideal Pumping AWES App?

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ja5042836

links the full article: Hydrogen Production from Ammonia Using Sodium Amide

See the bottom of the reached page for links to alternative file formats for

reading the paper.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15567 From: dave santos Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Nuke Emergency Response by means of Kites
In case of nuclear emergency, specialized kites could serve to contain and/or filter radioactive aerosols. A large kite arch might serve as a wind-filter at a hot point-source, or a large isolation membrane kite could be aerotowed over a fallout zone. Deploying coolant with vapor containment is another possible emergency use. Kites would be deployed in depth, changed often, and disposed of suitably. A rapid response capability might be based on a jumbo jet filled with kite gear, ready to fly anywhere.  Work Kites operated remotely might also serve best of any option to clean up contaminated material. The methods apply to other forms of dangerous contamination; chemical and biological.

A relatively low-cost low-tech protective kite system deployed to Chernobyl or Fukushima could have greatly mitigated staggering human, economic, and ecological damage.

CC 4.x BY NC SA
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15568 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Clean air to safeguard cities using kite systems
Joining

to this topic.  Nuke Emergency Response by means of Kites by Dave Santos.

~ JoeF

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15569 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Walking Kite Systems
Following technology is licensed CC 4.x BY NC SA by Joe Faust  and placed into the kPower, Inc.  AWES IP Pool:
Walking Kite Systems 
Some practical purposes may need a kite system to travel. The travel of FFAWE tether systems may be remotely controlled (or onboard human controlled) to stop free travel and put down roots or anchor at a place on a planet's surface in order to carry out further operations.   Or a kite system might serve by "walking" to remote sites for performing actions of service; more, during the walk services may be unfolding both during the stride or step as well as at each step down. The kite system flies and then lets down a second anchor set; upon firming the second anchor set, the kite system could release the first tether anchor set and drawn in the tether. The drawn-in tether could be the next let-down tether-anchor set for the walk. The wings of the walking system would continue to go downwind in points of the allowed wind window left or right of direct downwind. Then the next step could be made. Two sets of tether sets with specialized anchoring preparations would allow continued walking the system to far points.  The walking is distinguished from the well-known anchor dragging (soil drag or water drag) that allows travel across some lands and also bodies of water.  The distinct walking allows large stepping over of trees, cities, hills, mountains ... before placing down the next tether-anchor fix.  Walk around the world with one kite system! Leap over ships to set down a new anchor point.  Transitioning can be controlled.  Energy stored in the wing system may aid in operations; energy may be obtained via known AWES methods. Wing-self step-tugging can be part of the control during the walking process.  Set down the next anchor-tether; let flight adjust some; then at the balanced arrangement, detach from soil or water at the first anchor and pull up the devices and tether to the air to the point wanted.  Leaping power lines by similar art was mentioned by Dave Santos: human pilot walking to fetch a drop line; then release first line; the new fetched line become the next flying line; the power line has been walked over.        What is furthered hereon is the remote-control or robotic or inhabited walking kite systems for walking and working along the way. Such walking systems could reach one point far away or many points on the land or sea; and service may be done along the way or at any point. Remote control from half-way around the earth could be part of some systems.  Care to walk this way from Los Angeles to New York City?  Care to walk this way across the Atlantic Ocean?  Care to walk this way across vast ice fields?   Photography missions? Cleaning missions? Material transport?  Seed spreading? Collecting samples? Advertising?  
~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15570 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Walking Kite Systems
"Leaping power lines by similar art was mentioned by Dave Santos"
***  I vote he keep practicing til he gets it right or becomes a cinder  :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15571 From: dougselsam Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: RAD: Retarded Airborne (wind energy) Development
Well, kind of like global warming, in the world of AWE, things are just not panning out as Professor Crackpot predicted.  Newsflash:  If you have a WEC system that works, you leave it running.  Nobody develops a reliable wind energy system to let it sit in a warehouse unused.  Doesn't work that way.   If no system is in normal, daily operation by now, Houston, we have an AWE  problem.  And Austin too.  And I mean besides being near Dallas, the new home of ebola.  Nobody develops a reliable wind energy system and leaves it not running.  For one thing, longevity is not the main thing, it's the only thing, so proving longevity is Job-! for ANY reasonable development program.  Also, if you HAVE a nice windenergy system, it would DRIVE YOU NUTS to have it not running ALL THE TIME.  You;re too excited to see  it running all the time!  If it canb;t run all the time, it's not a viable system.  Wind turbines are useless when stowed away.  Constant use is the only way to make a decent amount of energy over time, and the only way to get the bugs worked out.   If you HAVE a system that WORKS, you immediately realize you're saving  money on your electric bill every minute it's running and if not, you;re wasting money buying electricity for no reason!  This simple reality (remember why we want to make electricity?  Hello?) is easily overlooked by those who have never, and will never, see their electric bill zeroed out or negative due to practicing what they preach.  Nope, the AWE crowd is pretty much all bullshitters.  Especially certain people...   Only IDIOTS insist that wind energy system development remain forever in "demo" mode, endlessly proposing "flyoffs" while having nothing to "fly off" anyway, neglecting the fact that the world is one big showroom now that we have the interweb etc.
It's basically IMPOSSIBLE to be devoted to wind energy research, be competent, have a good system built, and just sit around not running it, full time. 
Yes, never flying (operating) wind energy systems is a serious symptom of not having anything WORTH operating, just the kind of departure from reality that makes Professor Crackpot, Professor Crackpot!  "Wind energy thythtemth!  For uthe only When Profethor Crackpot  feelth like it!"
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15572 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Re: Walking Kite Systems

Sorry:   It was some kind of lines that DaveS overcame by using drop line that became new flying line after releasing the first line.   I must withdraw "power lines" until the revisit to the post is made.   The oft heard kite safety: Do not fly near power lines! is respected.   

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <dougselsam@yahoo.com "Leaping power lines by similar art was mentioned by Dave Santos"
***  I vote he keep practicing til he gets it right or becomes a cinder  :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15573 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: (WO2010126863) SYSTEM FOR GENERATING ELECTRIC POWER FROM FLUID CURRE
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15574 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: This was not cited by Sky WindPower for the calm phase

Power quad-copter from ground energy source:        circa 1925

Patent US1523926 - Helicopter

This was not cited by Sky WindPower for the calm phase.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15575 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/21/2014
Subject: Jinho Kim of Korea
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15576 From: dougselsam Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Jinho Kim of Korea
Another fly...
a wannabe laddermill...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15577 From: dougselsam Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: (WO2010126863) SYSTEM FOR GENERATING ELECTRIC POWER FROM FLUID C
a primitive 100% drag-based underwater laddermill using parachutes
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15578 From: dougselsam Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Walking Kite Systems
"The oft heard kite safety: Do not fly near power lines! is respected." ***There you have it - don't use kites for grid-connected AWE: power lines doncha know... and a substation.  :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15579 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: AWES Aloft Winches

Following technology is licensed CC 4.x BY NC SA by Joe Faust  and placed into the kPower, Inc.  AWES IP Pool:

AWES Aloft Winches

Have kite systems that feature winches flown aloft. The winches may be mid-tether or situated in tethered wings. We already have aloft control systems that adjust the length of control lines; the aloft kite steering units (KSU) frequently involve aloft flown winches. Differently are aloft flown winches that perform tasks other than those well known in KSUs. Walking kite systems (see recent post) would use a winch to collect the early tether while letting the system fly with the new-step tether set. Kiting a sailplane and could have an onboard winch; however, upon releasing anchor and reeling in by winch the launching line would have the sailplane be no longer a tethered airfoil, so this disclosure does not umbrella that situation; such tactic was described by Jack Lambie in the 1970s in a hang gliding magazine; he described gliding to a landing and repeating the cycle. Differently, the walking kite system stays a kite system.  The further works by aloft winches in kite systems could be employed for lifting up and lowering masses for various practical objectives. Aloft winches could adjust the integration of array nodes of AWES. An aloft winch could gather line to give apparent wind during low-wind events. An aloft winch could gather the complete flying line or lines and bring the wing set home. Many other uses of aloft-flown winches are intended to be covered by this disclosure.

    The winches aloft may be powered by any known means including stored energy from the involved AWES or direct energy obtained aloft by works of the AWES.   Gearings as needed and envisioned. The gathering of line need not be on a drum or spool; gathered line may be bagged or drop-lined or cut and let go or burnt or used in chemical processes or used to fly other tethered airfoils in the AWES. 

   An AWES aloft winch may be employed to launch or land other tethered airfoils which wings may be situated ready for launch on the ground or onboard ships or onboard other kite systems or even held by the mother AWES involved. An aloft flown AWES winch may draw in a secondary drop-lined tether for bringing down the mother AWES or for working the altitude of the mother global AWES for various reasons.   ~ JoeF 



 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15580 From: dougselsam Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: AWES Aloft Winches
"Following technology is licensed CC 4.x BY NC SA by Joe Faust  and placed into the kPower, Inc.  AWES IP Pool:" *** Joe, what do you mean by "licensed CC 4.x BY NC SA by Joe Faust"  What does "licensed CC" mean?  Who is licensing what from whom?  Are you sure nobody has ever publicly mentioned a winch on a kite before?  What about Wayne's inter-reeling stratospheric flyers microwaving energy beams to fry people on the ground?  Or did I miss the details there?  Seems like I've heard about winches on kites before(?)  I just keep reading this "licensed CC" etc. stuff from you and wonder, whom are you talking to exactly?  It sounds like some internal memo - "note to self".  I'm just wondering if there is licensing involved, from whence is the authority to "license" derived, if no patent is involved.  Sorry for not understanding - maybe you've already explained it.  I don't quite get the shorthand.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15581 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Walking Kite Systems
Good, Doug S.; yes, some distinctions are called to the front, as the use of "power lines" was regarding the oft seen and used above-ground poled power lines, which certainly could cramp the safety of an AWES site. Thanks.   

 At some AWES sites, consider burying or piping any power lines needed for connecting to the grid.

Thanks for the call out!

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15582 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Creative Commons Licensing
  • About The Licenses  https://creativecommons.org/licenses/ 
  • http://www.energykitesystems.net/CoopIP/

  • Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International Public License ("Public License").
  • "licensed CC 4.x BY NC SA by Joe Faust"  means that the licensing is according to the Creative Commons licensing, which see.  Joe Faust has placed his licensing under the management of the kPower, Inc.   If one wants to use any novel technology into commercial operations that is licensed as said, then respectful negotiation with kPower, Inc. is the path of peaceful progress.  If novelty is contested, let such be in the respectful discussion and negotiations. Patents are not the only path to protecting creative novelty and priorities. 
  • Earlier forum posts have set the scene for such CC licensing. Please review such. 
  • Others are invited to use the CC licensing.   And while doing so, consider entering your protected IP into the kPower, Inc. AWES IP Pool for aggregate negotiation impact in the unfolding AWE industry.
~ JoeFa
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15583 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Creative Commons Licensing
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15584 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: RAD: Retarded Airborne (wind energy) Development
Doug once again fails to understand that our serious AWES are UAS (FAA regulated aircraft). We are flying higher with larger platforms, restricted to FAA designated flying sites and session limitations and under the same basic rules as other UAS (ie. no night flight).

AWE is aviation, and there is no such thing as an aircraft that is capable to fly as Doug insists (excepting aerostats, but most AWES developers seek to avoid LTA dependence). The reason is Aviation Safety Culture, and there are no short-cuts. Let Doug complain in vain for the next ten years, if he cannot understand the qualification process.


On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 8:22 PM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15585 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Jinho Kim of Korea
With only two airborne units, it lacks the many "rungs" running in a continuous loop that characterize LadderMills.

This is a pumping LTA AWES concept that would be improved by replacing the lower unit with a pure plunging wing.




On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:27 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15586 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: AWES Aloft Winches
Joe is onto the trail of advancing AWES conceptually. Recalling fondly how KiteMotor1 at 2007 WSIKF accidentally but impressively winched itself down when a knot in its loop-line jammed. RAT-driven airborne winches are a cool tool.

For Doug: CC liscensing is a soft form of modern IP not based on government-enforced patent monopoly, but on a Netizen honor system that most good social actors are expected to ultimately respect.

We trade the high costs, limited disclosures, strong greed motive, and secrecy delays of the patent system for a faster direct sharing of tech ideas, as a RAD tool.

AWE CC IP as gathered by the Open AWE movement over the last five years now seems quite comparable in volume and scope to patented AWE IP, but fresher and more advanced.

 


On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 7:48 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15587 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Walking Kite Systems
The colorful literary allusion for walking kite systems is "Seven League Boots"-


I do fly near power lines sometimes, but with many precautions (only dry clean polymer line, short exposure to risk, good kite, good flying skills). It is worth noting that cropduster pilots and other flying daredevils do fly under powerlines (very close). We warn children strictly, since they do not have the training and judgement required.

Ed flew his kite into powerlines at kFarm while learning to kite-landboard, and I had failed to warn him, presuming he had the taboo in mind. There was no short or electrocution :) The kite was cleared by detaching the handles and letting the breeze pull the it free.


On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 7:52 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15588 From: benhaiemp Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Patent and Creative Commons license

On the present forum I see more and more self-proclamations under CC BY NC SA, that without any form of (at least unformal) process. From the point of view of the ethics it is a serious regression compared to the system of patents that allows establishing a contradictory procedure with examiners. Is it the beginning of blocking author rights by self-proclamation or by friends' proclamations under "good social actors" within "Netizen honor system"? Where is impartiality?

Fortunately most companies, comprising in AWE field, use patents. So let us admit patents are needed to value innovations with possible markets while one can invoke any form of IP by discussing on a forum.  

 

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15589 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Patent and Creative Commons license
Pierre,

Keep in mind many of us simply cannot afford the cost of patents and the tedious delays. Nor do we want to wait for someone with lots of money to patent AWE essentials and make us pay, by government enforcement. You do not need to be afraid that AWE CC IP will be so authoritarian.

Our CC knowledge-sharing on the Net establishes "timestamped" AWE prior art without delay. Anyone is immediately free to adopt the ideas, and kindly voluntarily respect the inventors' moral rights* and wishes, as a cooperative global community.

The AWE IP Pool aggregates both patents and CC IP in order to create a cheap license for start-up players (~3% of gross cost proposed) to confidently compete against the patent pools by SABIC, GoogleX, etc..

If your can propose a better way to resolve problems with patents (trolls, thickets, blockings) than just adding CC IP into the mix, we will follow your lead,

daveS


* Moral rights are a French invention.


On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 10:29 AM, "pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15590 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: The Secret of High-Altitude AWE
Kites in trains attained 10km altitudes a hundred years ago. There is no mystery about how it was done, and one need only update the kites and add suitable WECS payloads (even common RATS) to start harvesting power. The only new secret of High-Altitude AWE is that you must be a qualified pilot to practice it, because its real aviation.

Its a wonderful moment in AWE history where any of the following aviation paths are wide open to almost anyone- UAS, sUAS, Experimental, Hang Gliding, Paragliding, Model Aircraft, Model Rocketry, Ballooning, Parachuting, and Kiting. There are tiers of qualified aerospace players as well. All these airspace user groups have rightful access to communally shared airspace. We are allowed to tinker with AWE ideas to the extent we fit in to the existing highly self-regulated aviation mix.

If you want to play the AWE high-game, join an airspace user group and master the fundamentals. Build flight hours and slowly extend the basic safe flight capability into power production. There is no other secret.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15591 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Article by George J. Varney
What a fine account of the budding "Golden Age of Kites". No doubt Varney's reportage was widely and eagerly read by dreamers like Cody and the Wrights. Along with the "nets and booms" handbook, this is two classic texts; its a good week on the Forum for old art.

There are many nice technical kiting details, like how train kites attached to the steel piano wire kiteline by aluminum clamps (Updated method is a simple plastic clamp softer than the UHMPE it clamps to.  CC BY NC SA).
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15592 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Offerings 100% to Public Domain

When someone has an AWES process, method, utility, or design that is offered to public domain without holdback of any rights, then consider publishing a description in this topic thread. 

==================

Start: 

The following, if novel, is 100% offered into public domain without holding back any rights, not even attribution, but attribution would be fun and enjoyed:   Let AWES lift up a dining platform; people will be served meals high in the sky. The experience might be developed as part of a real estate promotion or other event. Diners would be elevated to the dining platform by various means. Upon finishing the meal, the people could return to terra firma by various means (skydive, textile tube let down, pulleyed elevator, tether slide-down, hang glider, system let-down, ...). The experience could be sold or traded or part of a contract. Liability insurance may cover the experience. The affair could be an amusement park arrangement. The deal could be a regular restaurant site or adjunct to a restaurant chain.  Honeymoon meal might be the target attraction.  Summit meeting meals.  Food and utensils could be brought up as needed. Solar cooking aloft could be part of the system. Birds might be fed scraps.  If over water, maybe scraps could feed fish. Raising diners could be by using energy from the wind or sun or both. 

   ... inspired in part by the contemporary dining experience in the sky by use of a crane lifting the platform of diners up high.    

~ JoeF

======================
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15593 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Stabilising a lift kite
Public Lab: stabilise a lift sled kite

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15594 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History

The future will probably hold superabundant human-lifting by kite systems. And the present sports of power kiting, kiteboarding, hang gliding, paragliding, parasailing, special stunts, are man-lifting affairs.  THIS TOPIC THREAD aims to record notes from all about man-lifting by kite systems. Hopefully a robust history will unfold along with lessons learned or derived. Images linked would be great. Detail notes of historical efforts would spice nice. Aerotecture envisions human-lifting by kite systems at a level and density not seen before.  

---

So, what have we?  Firsts? References. Images. Objectives.  Sift also for tips to inform coming human-lifting.

Ancient? Penal? Military? Weather? Observation? Science? Thrill? Accidental? Artistic? Purposeful? Exploratory? Sport? Dare? Story? Myth? Art? Photography? Activity in addition to the basic lift? Accidents? Injuries?  Fatalities? Afterthoughts? Devices involved? Harnesses? Rigs? Duration? Travel? Altitude? Where? When? Who? Costs? Repetitions? Passenger? Team? Self? Conditions? Specifications?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15595 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History
Contemporary: 
Man-lifting Kite (Trains volants de D. Guignet)

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15596 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Offerings 100% to Public Domain
Let it be recalled that the Forum has long defined a considerable Public Domain license for what has variously been called Open AWE (not counting legacy art), CoolIP, FairIP and CC IP.

The principle clearly defined is that any small player is encouraged to freely use the technology up to a million or two in gross income, before sooner or later incurring a moral obligation to license further (at low rates). This started freer than CC NC now suggests, so we should make clear that a relaxed NC policy is intended (any dissenters please go on record).

The 99% of humanity that are not multi-millionaires comprise the preponderance of the "public" whose "domain" we address here. To this extent, our CC IP is public domain for most practical purposes, and to freely make a couple of millions by Open AWE puts the lucky person in the 1%. If our Open AWE can deliver the basic solutions, its a great social bargain.

Ideas 100% in the Public Domain are above all open for exploitation by large corporations, militaries, and other power-elites, as an ironic paradox. We are hoping the little folk are not suppressed by the powerful, by leveling the AWE playing field with our CC IP.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15597 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History
On that contemporary scene:
Man-lifting Kite SACONNEY

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15598 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History
GRANDE GUERRE - 1914 1918 - cerfs-volants

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15599 From: dave santos Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History
We are noting developmental phases of the same system-

 


On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:07 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15600 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/22/2014
Subject: Re: Man-or-Woman-Lifting History