Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES15450to15499 Page 204 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15450 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Clean air to safeguard cities using kite systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15451 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: (WO2014036810) A TETHERED AIRBORNE WIND POWER GENERATOR SYSTEM

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15452 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014105396 by Leonid Goldstein, circa 2012

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15453 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: (WO2014036810) A TETHERED AIRBORNE WIND POWER GENERATOR SYSTEM

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15454 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15455 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Kite System Marionette Operations

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15456 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Kite System Marionette Operations

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15457 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15458 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15459 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15460 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15461 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15462 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15463 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15464 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15465 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15466 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15467 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND GEN

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15468 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15469 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15470 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: AEROSTAT-MOUNTED AERODYNAMIC POWER PLANT

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15471 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Kite system drags magnet assembly

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15472 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15473 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Reporting wind

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15474 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15475 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15476 From: dougselsam Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15477 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15478 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Reporting wind

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15479 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15480 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15481 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15482 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15483 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15484 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15485 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15486 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Semiconductor Similarity Case

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15487 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15488 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15489 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Reporting wind

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15490 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Reporting wind

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15491 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Semiconductor Similarity Case

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15492 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Semiconductor Similarity Case

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15493 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15494 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15495 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15496 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15497 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Topological Stability of Cross-linked Kite Units

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15498 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: Topological Stability of Cross-linked Kite Units

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15499 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15450 From: Joe Faust Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Clean air to safeguard cities using kite systems
Following technology is licensed CC 4.x BY NC SA by Joe Faust into kPower AWES IP Pool: 

Use kite systems to clean the air entering a city or the like. 
One embodiment is to hold by kite systems large curtains that electrostatically collect pollutants
out of the air. Cleaned air is permitted through the working curtain. Other embodiments are intended
in the spirit of this disclosure.     Pollutants: smoke, germs, toxic powders, radioactive dust, dust, insects, fibers, landscaping-work soil dust, animal-airborne debris, volcanic dust,  ...     For niche chemical cleaning from the air, specialize curtain could be used; chemical reactions could be a choice rather than electrostatics.  Also, sets of curtains may be useful; perhaps a pre-treatment of the air before the air reaches the next working curtain. 

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15451 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: (WO2014036810) A TETHERED AIRBORNE WIND POWER GENERATOR SYSTEM


Study thread for:

http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/WO2014036810

(EN) A TETHERED AIRBORNE WIND POWER GENERATOR SYSTEM
(FR) SYSTÈME GÉNÉRATEUR D'ÉNERGIE ÉOLIENNE AÉRIEN ATTACHÉ

CHAN, Kwok Fai; (CN)

See full document through above text link, but here is a summary clip

for handy view of the drawings of the patent application:

http://www.energykitesystems.net/Patents/China/WO2014036810byChanCLIP.JPG


 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15452 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014105396 by Leonid Goldstein, circa 2012
With regard to AWES pumping air, hydraulic fluid, or other media, for the obvious range of existing pumping applications, the AWES Forum and many other prior-art records exist, going back to at least the 1980's [ie. Goela].

Leo studiously ignores a lot of prior-art in his ongoing project to patent obvious AWES ideas like pumping cylinders. He claims to be "too busy" to review prior-art (with kPower in Austin), but that does not make his claims valid, nor absolve him of due-diligence responsibility to recognize prior-art easily available to him. When cornered in the past with this complaint, he claimed not to have any patent-troll intent, but his ongoing patent filings clearly have that potential, especially if he someday sells/licenses them to a troll actor. Open AWE is here giving public notice that AWE subject-matter experts do not find the patents to be valid, based on extensive prior-art (anyone who finds an important seemingly-valid claim in Leo's patents, please specify).

It is again asserted on the public record [AWES Forum] that none of Leo's patent claims are seen as fundamental (original, non-obvious), and only minor incidental details seem to represent protectable design. kPower is still patiently waiting for Leo to find time to review documented prior art that he has sought to patent for himself. We had thought Leo might want to partner on open R&D, but got the "too busy" (to even meet) excuse. Leo is still invited to meet with kPower in Austin, and invited (Cc:ed) to correct any unfair misimpression here (esp. by proposing specific patent claims for us to compare against prior art).




On Saturday, October 18, 2014 9:52 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15453 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: (WO2014036810) A TETHERED AIRBORNE WIND POWER GENERATOR SYSTEM

Their stated priority date on their matter: Sept. 5, 2012.

Miscellany:

"train of windsock propellers"

"power generator parafoil"

"train of pilot buoyant parafoils"

"twin blimps"

"automatic air pumps to maintain the volume of the twin-blimps"

"variety of built-in wind turbines"
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15454 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop
Multiple storage reels are the common AWES solution for storing and deploying multi-lines on the same or independent axes. This approach does not work for a drive loop between two pulleys (as Rod noted) owing to the impracticality of the lower pulley riding the storage spool (using COTS pulleys and reels; but a custom "pulley-reel" is a possible approach)

A simple solution is to store the loop line on a single open-sided split-reel. The line lays in the split and the reel then loads or unloads in both directions. The pulleys start close together, with the line stored on the split-reel, and as the kite draws the upper pulley aloft, the line unreels smoothly between both freely turning pulleys. Once fully unwound, the line can run continuously, but ready-placed in the split for retract (airspace sense-and-avoid response time can be reduced).

The upper kite would usually be just a pilot-lifter. A primary kite reel with a main-line can operate in parallel. A kite-lofted pulley loop can host a capstan, and be driven by WECS of many kinds, with many continuous and pumping cycles possible. Large parallel arrays can be built from repeated cross-linked units.

CC 4.x BY NC SA (attributing this and all my other Forum CC posts to the same kPower license pool as Joe)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15455 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Kite System Marionette Operations
More Disney Patent news (three patents). They even have dubbed a "flixel" (flying pixel) comparable to our "kixel". Given that our kite ideas generally have free-flying modes documented, and the entertainment cases we have long discussed, we have strong claims for obviousness and prior art in this concept space-

Patent US20140233099 - Aerial display system with floating projection screens

Four Things You Need To Know About Disney's Drones

http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2014/08/amazing-new-wdi-patents-shows.html
 

 

image
 

 
 
 
 

Thanks to Market Watch, the blog of The Wall Street Journal we've learned that Disney Enterprises - WDI - filed three new amazing patents on August 21, just four da...

View on disneyandmore.blogsp...
Preview by Yahoo

 





On Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:47 AM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15456 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Kite System Marionette Operations
Dead Cat Quadcopter is a sick flying puppet, but prior art (sorry Disney)


Yes, Someone Turned Their Dead Cat Into a Helicopter




On Saturday, October 18, 2014 1:23 PM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15457 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer
Dave seems to overlook that fast load velocity can be more accurately matched and tracked with a wide radial system.
yep.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15458 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer
Rod, By vagueness, you force me to overlook your meaning here (which seems like a nonsense requirement). What is your critical need to "more accurately" "match and track" fast load velocity by a "wide radial system"? What wide radial AWES? Compared to what narrow and/or non-radial system? Any similarity cases?

Don't "overlook" engineering clarity. It sounds like you are still hoping Gordon's Law somehow can be "overlooked" in AWES design.




On Saturday, October 18, 2014 2:32 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15459 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer
I think we're all guilty here of overlooking the capability implied in the "law"
It's more applicable as a statement of relationship between the ability of two remote structures to retain shape whilst affecting each other.
If one happens to be a wide circle mounted on the earth, and the other happens to be a large diameter inflated circle pulled away from the first by an external (kite applied) force...  it can be scaled to be hugely useful before it crumples to some imagined doom.

There's no vagueness. A kite can be set to fly powerfully around a circular course. All of the lift and "thrust" forces can be used to maintain flying structure, counter drag and power a generator in one sweet motion....
What's the complication?

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15460 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer
What is your critical need to "more accurately" "match and track" fast load velocity by a "wide radial system"?
Energy transfer efficiency.

A lesson that our communications standards could learn a lot from.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15461 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop
Can anyone provide a reference to what this post refers to?
Something I apparently am aware of but is impregnable to me.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15462 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

impregnable
Ha ha that was definitely the wrong word.
I best re-try.
Unintelligible

On 18 Oct 2014 23:22, "Rod Read" <rod.read@gmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15463 From: Rod Read Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Impregnable... turns out was right

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15464 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer
A kite can only fly its fastest "circular course" in the crosswind plane, and a wide circular carousel is in the wrong plane for fastest load motion. A crosswind kite pulling a side PTO like a bowstring-effect speed step-up can produce even higher load velocity than the kite's max "TSR". Circular track rotation seems very slow by comparison (by higher drag and less sweep efficiency.

You seem to willfully overlook faster motion transfer methods by proposing instead an NTS-style circular-track velocity basis in seeking a "more accurately matched and tracked" motion as a (false) critical factor. I cannot see any barrier to adequately "matched and tracked" crosswind kite dome motion without  accepting the multiple defects of "wrong plane" motion.


On Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:13 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15465 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer
Disregarding that there is less energy to tap in your "more accurately matched and tracked" "energy transfer efficiency" of  a "wide radial system", there is also the problem that much of the circle cannot work at full capacity (downwinding side) and (most inefficiently) even transferring parasitic drag (upwinding side).

You have "overlooked" the lower "energy transfer efficiency" in this case, not me :^(


On Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:39 PM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15466 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop
"Impregnable" sadly means you can never understand.

For anyone else; you recently mentioned the problem of reeling up rope drives for variable flight mode lengths, so I worked out a simple handy method for fully-stowed to fully-extended-and-driven flight modes.


On Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:28 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15467 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND GEN

AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND GENERATOR 

Leonid Goldstein. circa 2012

front page image


Following summary clip is not linked. Use above text link for full document, all drawings, and other related application matters. 

http://www.energykitesystems.net/LeoGoldstein/WO2014018424clipLeonidGoldstein.JPG
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15468 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

[[Russia ?  Flygen.  Holes in kited wing. Generating turbine in holes of the wing. Cited by Leonid Goldstein in one of his patents.     ~ JoeF]]  

English translation of inventor's name and core AWES technology notes are invited on this patent. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15469 From: dave santos Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND
A collection of odd AWES ideas and one strangely proportioned Chimera the 90's SkyBow and KLG's 2009 era looping foil under a pilot-lifter "wing", with similar power transfer in one claim.

This patent claim-set seems too muddled to be a threat to Open AWE, with most of the instances seemingly not workable as drawn. There could be a good idea somewhere in the mishmash. One wonders if Leo ever attempts to test his AWES ideas, or just patents and markets them as a-priori notions.


On Saturday, October 18, 2014 5:08 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15470 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: AEROSTAT-MOUNTED AERODYNAMIC POWER PLANT
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15471 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Kite system drags magnet assembly

Following technology is licensed CC 4.x BY NC SA by Joe Faust into kPower AWES IP Pool:


Kite system drags various magnet assemblies to accomplish various works. 

Pick-and-place. Salvage yard material lift and set. Magnets could be permanent magnet or electromagnetic with release controls. Electromagnet could be electrified by the kite system directly or by stored-energy made by the kite system or from external source. 

Also: Drag magnets in sand or soil to pick up attractive pieces, dirt, lost goods, etc

In niche event, a kite system held magnet curtain could collect attractive particles out the air as part of an industrial process or as part of a cleaning-air operation. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15472 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND

Some prior patent applications by the inventor were used in forming the description.

US Provisional Patent Application 61/577,329 Aerodynamic Cable and its Applications (APPL-PPA-06)

US Provisional Patent Application 61/662,476 AWECS with Continuous and Reciprocal Belt Motion and Related Concepts (APPL-PPA-24)

US Provisional Patent Application 61/674,372 AWECS with Wave Energy Transfer (APPL-PPA-26)

US Provisional Patent Application 61/676,976 Wind Energy Conversion Device with Diagonally Moving Wings (APPL-PPA-27)

US Provisional Patent Application 61/678,703 Wind Energy Conversion Device with Cable-Wing (APPL-PPA-28)

US Provisional Patent Application 61/679,859 Wind Energy Conversion Device with Ultra Long Flexible Wing (APPL-PPA-29)

US Provisional Patent Application 61/680,780 Airborne Wind Energy Conversion System with Heavy or Light Wing (APPL-PPA-30)

PCT Application PCT/US12/66331 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH FAST MOTION TRANSFER (01-PCT)

PCT Application PCT/US12/67143 WIND POWER DEVICE WITH DYNAMIC SAIL,

STREAMLINED CABLE OR ENHANCED GROUND MECHANISM (02-PCT)

PCT Application PCT/US13/30314 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH ENDLESS BELT (06-PCT)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15473 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/18/2014
Subject: Re: Reporting wind
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15474 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer
A kite can only fly its fastest "circular course" in the crosswind plane, and a wide circular carousel is in the wrong plane for fastest load motion.
But that's not what I've proposed is it Dave? I proposed something more like the bottled tornado drawing... where both planes are aligned. The close spacing of rings allows change between layer diameters without losing transfer. Enough wordplay already. Draw something. Label it. We can discuss whatever it may be properly. Without having to guess at whatever is implied from either side.
I have agreed several times that this scheme of tubes would be tricky to scale to massive... It's workable though.
And it can scale within massive by array methods.
As for
Circular track rotation seems very slow by comparison (by higher drag and less sweep efficiency.
That's nonsense.
circular stacks remove all but the most essential of bridling tethers. I've also shown that kites can fly circular tracks with tethering internal to the traced path of the tips, thus further reducing drag.

A crosswind kite pulling a side PTO like a bowstring-effect speed step-up can produce even higher load velocity than the kite's max "TSR".
Can you link to this bowstring effect or draw it better than Leo has, because his patents seem to claim he invented the wind. There's more than one way to string a bow, skin a cat, or fly it for that matter.
If you mean paired meshes swaying opposite side to side against internal common node point generators... great, up to a certain scale but you need space between the meshes for each height.

As for the continuance
You seem to willfully overlook faster motion transfer methods by proposing instead an NTS-style circular-track velocity basis in seeking a "more accurately matched and tracked" motion as a (false) critical factor. I cannot see any barrier to adequately "matched and tracked" crosswind kite dome motion without  accepting the multiple defects of "wrong plane" motion.
Grow up.

Let's not talk contradictory babble here ... even though nobody is listening..
Disregarding that there is less energy to tap in your "more accurately matched and tracked" "energy transfer efficiency" of  a "wide radial system",
Dis regard... but you thought you'd introduce a falsehood anyway...
 there is also the problem that much of the circle cannot work at full capacity (downwinding side) and (most inefficiently) even transferring parasitic drag (upwinding side).
How the hell did you ever get the impression (And I don't believe you did for one second)  from anything I've posted that I suggest we should have a Horizontal plane ring generating from a wind face plane spinner?

Either we can have a serious discussion or you just keep wasting everyone's time with twisted arguments, belittling proper efforts, obfuscating truths, denying ingenuity, imagining some gargantuan world dominating spaghetti generator gifted to you because you're just so obviously worth it. Ain't gonna happen unless you are the angel that brings it. Step up and explain yourself properly. Straight talking. If you can't handle that, then learn how to post or even email an attached picture.

My kids 7 & 9 yrs made me a 3d world on minecraft yesterday. I was able to discuss the relative merits of a massive granite tree-house with them... we all learnt something.


Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15475 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer

I do get that the earth as a bow works great. It's just the cable management underneath a swaying mesh needs tidying up.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15476 From: dougselsam Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND
Wow someone stumbled across another one of the 10 easy ways.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15477 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: fast motion transfer
Rod,

Sorry to misunderstand you, but you seem to be associating torque-transfer AWE with fast-motion-transfer by some method I do not know. If what you are talking about is the "bottled tornado", I do not see "fast motion transfer" (present topic). The tornadoes you draw seem to have a lot of inherent line drag, and the native rpm really is low. Gordon's Law and the low flying angle seems to limit its useful scale. Let them test against simple looping foils in a stack doing bow-string* acceleration.

The "bow-string effect"* is well documented on the Forum and drawn very often in the AWES Defensive Disclosure. Line management is documented. The model is a tensile radial engine with phased tugs from the margin to the generator at the center.

I don't see that Leo or anyone else has provided more drawing or text, nor do I imagine that "nobody is listening". My conviction is that there are lurkers and data miners in this world, and that you have enough drawings and text from me to make any complaint on that count nonsensical. I am not describing anything here that is not review. Leo is late to the fast-motion party.

The difference between technical critique and "belittling proper effort" is a focus on specific technical weakness. Proper effort will win out, there is no better tool. If that's what you've got, do not worry about nay-sayers; triumph in testing. Note Wubbo's SpiderMill as an architecture I have only praised. Refer to the Defensive Disclosure trove as my best effort to date to supply you with what you seem to be asking for,

daveS

* a bowstring drawn and loosed by an added string, as a tri-tether model for fast motion.






On Sunday, October 19, 2014 4:36 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15478 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Reporting wind
There is a problem with common kite trains as wind-shear indicators; they tend to host strong internal resonances powered by sweeping combined with relative high mass and elastic oscillations; resonances that tend to mask the subtleties in the background wind field.

A more sensitive method is to sight directly up a kiteline held ~loosely~ at a high flying angle by a delta "pasted to the sky" (stable flight). The line will be seen to contain indications of any shears in the wind column (look for LLJs). If more visual indication is wanted, a series of fuzzy yarn or ribbon tell-tales will work without coupling internal oscillations into the line.


On Saturday, October 18, 2014 9:12 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15479 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND
Doug seems to be bluffing by not identifying the "one of...10 easy ways" in the large morass of publicly-disclosed ideas presented here. If only he really knew, Rod could reasonably demand text and pictures... *sigh*


On Sunday, October 19, 2014 7:19 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15480 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

"Impregnable" sadly means you can never understand.
Never is a bit dramatic don't you think? Especially as I'm involved in whatever it is in some way.

It sounds like a useful kinda gadgety thingey...
If only we could understand it too.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15481 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop
Its natural that words and pictures are hard to understand (in computer science at least). On the AWES Forum, under the RAD doctrine, we explicitly encourage early disclosure of prior art, however imperfect, to reduce the risk to Open AWE of a blocking patent claim. Its also supposed that the AWES Forum is more important as a technical data-mine than a user-friendly presentation of ideas.

We expect and tolerate complaints about early lack of clarity; as better words, pictures, and demos do emerge in due time. The most resolute AWES developers endure petty annoyances nobly.

I'll prepare the demo of this topic and report back as intelligibly as possible...

---------------------

Re: Impregnability; Rod asked: "Never is a bit dramatic don't you think? "

No. Let me untwist the words here- It would be rather dramatic to believe Rod can be impregnated :)


On Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:27 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15482 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop
I hope the pulley-loop trick was explained enough for now, sorry for any unclearness.

Just in case the literal meaning of "impregnable" in this context was unclear, my understanding of what Rod wrote was that he was saying his -awareness- was "impregnable"-

Rod: "Something I apparently am aware of but is impregnable to me."


On Sunday, October 19, 2014 10:15 AM, dave santos <santos137@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15483 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

Delighted that you're going to do some work on the topic and presentations.
Whether or not I become the first pregnant man is my private concern and should be kept off forum.

Pulling a block from a tackle makes a line move faster but certainly doesn't give you any more power out from a kite. You all know that...
I'm v keen to discover the meat in this disclosure.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15484 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop

No, I found the whole topic matter impregnable behind the fortress of description.
Pictures are almost always a whole lot easier for anyone to understand than language.

On 19 Oct 2014 18:53, "Rod Read" <rod.read@gmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15485 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27
link bust ... tried searching the serial but not working

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15486 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Semiconductor Similarity Case
The Semiconductor Revolution has occurred within the lifetime of some of us, and its principles are widely known. A microchip is a layered structured processor of information and energy built from transistors statistically engineered from collections of atoms.

In the AWES similarity case, the ground surface and wind and kite layered atmosphere are like a giant silicon-wafer thin-film sandwich. Instead of etched electrical features, we rig lattices of polymer lines or metallic conductors to conduct forces (even as MEMS gain ground on chips). In the AWES similarity case, the wind passing thru our airborne structure corresponds to controllable electron flow in a semiconductor.

The semiconductor model helps us to design AWE (and paravane arrays) as a geological macrochip , with kite and tether lattices acting just like doped silicon layers to switch kinetic energy flow from above to the groundgens. The semiconductor model naturally abstracts the billions of kite elements needed, as a single integrated circuit.

Almost all AWES developers are still designing Field Effect Transistor (FET) "molecular" units, rather than MOSFETs or (much less) VLSI arrays. This is the foundational work creating our own revolution of kite ICs, whose ultimate organization into multiprocessors suggests AWE powered flying cities. Time will tell.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15487 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND
The picture resolution on that patent scope site is horrendous.
Do people pay for that as an information hosting service?
What a total waste of money. What is the legal system smoking?
It's not healthy for the economy... (Not even the fantasy economy the banks believe in.)

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15488 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Method for storing and deploying an AWES pulley loop
This topic is only about "storing and deploying" a kite rope-drive.

High speed rope-drives are presumed here (from history, Bolonkin, etc), and are best considered in a separate topic.




On Sunday, October 19, 2014 10:57 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15489 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Reporting wind
Thanks, DaveS,  for additional comments and insights. Good. 
Back to the shared photo: I am discerning that I was more focused on the tails as indicators of wind direction more than the global train snake;
~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15490 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Reporting wind
The train-kite tails will mostly follow the bulk harmonics (apparent wind) with a short phase lag, and also their own local turbulence and wave dynamics.


On Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:00 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15491 From: Rod Read Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Semiconductor Similarity Case
It's a cool comparison .

Collector- moving wind

Base- kite forms

Emitter- gen PTO

Sounds good ... a slight tweak of the base has rapidly amplified c to e energy flow... turned on and off as needed.
How useful the idea is ... we need to have large development in kites... we're still using low frequency tubes.

apart from that, can we have flying farms first please?

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
UK
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15492 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: Semiconductor Similarity Case
Rod: "...can we have flying farms first please?"

Done. Kite festivals represent large systems of many discrete components. The world is ready for more integration.

To those who object that kites as such are not yet AWES- Kite Lift is Power (follow the lift)


On Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:06 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15493 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: WO2014018424 AIRBORNE WIND ENERGY CONVERSION SYSTEM WITH GROUND
Rod, 
1. Image resolution?  Patentscope:   The fist level of just "Drawings" tab, one get a low resolution small size. But differently, going to "Documents"  choose a pdf that holds the full disclosure. Then with PDF page, one may enlarge via the PDF reader.

2. If one is in Google patents and gets lucky to have it serve some images, then Google provides a three-step deal: 1. Click small image. 2. At the larger image:   then see near top "original image" or something like that. And then after getting served the "original image"  see if your browser upon clicking on it will give an enlarged version in super resolution.    I get to a very large image.   Google does not serve all patents, but when they do, some have images, some not. 

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15494 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27
Reformatted link to cure the link bust: 

Note: Let the page load.   No title is given for the patent at that served page. 

~ JoeF

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15495 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27

For this patent, I just made a PDF file for easier access:



http://energykitesystems.net/Patents/Russia/RU14458U1.pdf
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15496 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27
This patent shows a partial good-intuition. What we have recently added to this concept space is probable identification of the optimal geometry,in the biomimetic model of shark gills. This consists of a sequence of gill-arch as wing and gill as WECS. The recent doctored image of an Ampyx kiteplane, as an IFO with turbine-flaps, is a close example.

Since unit-turbines do not scale well by power-to-mass, gill-like turbine aggregations (dense arrays) under stacked arches is a reasonable scaling approach.

CC 4.0 BY NC SA


On Sunday, October 19, 2014 2:11 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15497 From: dave santos Date: 10/19/2014
Subject: Topological Stability of Cross-linked Kite Units
Early large-scale AWES architectural concepts tend to be farm collections of single-line units (ie. Makani). These have the grave flaw of high topological instability, as formally a "comb topology", with high risk of fouling neighboring units into unwanted (failure-mode) topologies. Full separation of kite unit tether scope (Makani spec) eliminates this risk at high land cost. There is also comb weakness to runaway units and crashing. These topological problems have a topological solution:

Many-connected topological spaces (crystals, foams) enable an AWES to be optimally dense and topologically stable. Airborne layers of cross-linked elements readily communicate state between units and actuate collective solutions to maintain high topological stability. It is proposed that this is a fundamental axiomatic principle of the practical engineering of large-scale AWES.

CC 4.0 BY NC SA
 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15498 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: Topological Stability of Cross-linked Kite Units
It would then seem key to aim for a comprehensive review of potential options. And then analysis and testing  over attractive arrangements.   

Related, perhaps: 
  • "Smarting" arrays?  How smart will effective arrays be?  Node smartness. Line smartness. Global smartness.
  • While-flying repair of arrays?
  • Launching
  • Stopping
  • Staying aloft during inadequate wind
  • Ground handling
  • Mass production
  • Assembly
  • Recycling
  • Renewing
  • Simulation
  • Small-scale testing
  • Comparing
  • PTO options


Tease images
Explore ...  array, matrix, lattice, topology, net, structure, crystal, fractal, form, tree, root, communication, interdependence, body, 

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 15499 From: dougselsam Date: 10/20/2014
Subject: Re: [AWES] RU14458 (U1) ― 2000-07-27
Professor Crackpot on Vodka?  The horizontal stabilizer is shown with a highly-cambered lift airfoil.  Why?  Seems inaccurate or downright ignorant to me.  The wings look like typical jetliner extending sections.  So what is the supposed significance of these drawings?  How does this thing supposedly work?  Does anyone have any idea what the text says?