I consider it necessary to state here that the AWE Consortium concept was precisely what this forum and in particular Dave Santos of KiteLab Group has continually tried to champion for all players irrespective of purse size through what he terms 'CO-OPERATIVE'. We must now concede that the word 'CONSORTIUM' has been masterfully deployed by the 'big four'. While this Yahoo forum and KiteLab Group has been free for all with anything to offer on the cooperative alter, we wait to see the monetary requirements to join the banquet of the consortium.
I use this opportunity to invite all to enlist in a formal membership of the Airborne Wind Energy Industry Association - www.aweia.org
Joe Faust remains the coordinator at AWEIA.
Sincerely yours AWEfully,
John Oyebanji
Protem President - AWEIA International

JohnO has been doing a fine job building bridges for AWEIA. A lot of this work is still not widely announced, but it nicely compliments AWEC, as it is more internationally oriented, includes many smaller developers, & embraces large application niches for low-cost small-scale energy production. AWEIA is inclusive & has already proposed cooperation & even merger with AWEC. The two camps have strengths & weaknesses that make cooperation desirable.   The terms Association, Cooperative, Consortium, & even Company are pretty much interchangeable. KiteLab Group is the first announced AWE commercial consortium & AWEIA is the first industry association, both of which contributed to the planning at HAWPCON09 for a unified developer push. The presumption is that AWEC is consistent with that process & acting in good faith, for its core members were part of the HAWPCON discussion.   Both AWEC & AWEIA need to operate more transparently & well-known rifts internal to our field need to be on the table for member deliberation-

There is a Join form at  aweia.org

===========================

Linking:

http://www.AWEIA.org/

AWEissues 

 

AWECS patentee inventor Gaylord Olson who has been in this group has joined AWEIA.   Welcome, Gaylord.

AWECS patentee Lynn Potter as AWE company with his company Airbine™ has joined AWEIA. Welcome Airbine™  to the AWECS company sector.

http://AWEIA.org

The global AWE community continues to grow and fly. Some new issues were posted for
http://energykitesystems.net/AWEissues/index.html

Lift to you and yours,

JoeF
AWEIA coordinator

PS: The PayPal secure form is encrypted. No one sees your credit card number

 

What other department or report would you suggest for AWE Quarters ?
What is missing?

Here is the table of contents developed to date:

 

AWE Quarters  Each quarter, publish a PDF and send it to AWEIA members via a web link set in an e-mail.
Reports to be included in the quarterly:   

• President's message  

• Safety 

• Airspace governance 

• Agreements 

• Installations 

• Contracts for installations

• AWE companies

• Voting results

• Link to polls on issues 

• Technology

  • Traction (ship, boat, yacht, sport, land, special tug works; niche applications as sawing, grinding, launching gliders, drag cleaning nets, plowing soil, scraping land, pulling vehicles, pulling objects, etc.) 

  • GroundGen   (all scales) 

  • FlyGen (all scales) 

  • Fixed offshore  

  • Free-flight (single aircraft, coupled aircraft)

  • Lifted-cable transportation

  • Scales (micro, miniature, toy, sport, residential, nomadic, commercial, utility, national, free-flight)

  • Niche applications of working kites and working aerostats (bird scaring, advertising, lifting hang gliders, lifting water, lifting skydivers, and more)

  • Tether

  • Line handling

  • Generators and motors

  • Controllers

  • Materials

  • Energy storage 

  • Inspection 

  • Systems management 

• Education  

• AWECS management 

• AWECS skilled-worker positions development 

• Customer service 

• Committees 

• Financial  

• Progress of AWEIA 

• National AWE organizations 

• Membership  

• Accidents, analysis, and lessons

• Standards 

• Records 

Announcements 

AWE community beginnings and endings

Links 

Job offerings

Advertisements 

...other

For members of AWEIA  is AWE Journal

Articles submitted for publication will be refereed.
Notice of acceptance for publication will be given within two months,
unless other agreement is reached with authors.  Authors will receive
preliminary private comments from unpaid volunteer referees.

Preliminary abstracts may be submitted for first-level topical approval.

Upon publication: the abstract of the article will be shown open to the public
in AWEIA public space on the Internet along with some editorial descriptors that clue the length, number of figures, and number of photos.

AWEIA members have access to the full  AWE Journal within AWE Sector space.  Non-members may purchase a personal-use PDF copy of each separated article in PDF format for a reasonable price.  Copyright for published articles resides with authors and AWEIA.

Authors are invited to send their articles for possible publication in AWE Journal to the e-mail shown at Authors 

Topics in AWE Journal  are expected to advance some aspect of airborne wind energy technology at any scale or application. Original authorship with references are invited.  Primary research and experience analysis is sought. Some survey articles will be accepted.  A preliminary discussion of aims will be easy to extend.

Flying Thicket

GW GroundGen for AWECS FairIP offer

The linked image is the latest KiteLab Group gigawatt-scale groundgen scheme. Each airbeam battened membrane wingmill could be 300 m long & deliver about 50 MW in a Force-5 breeze. Six of them as a cell are 300 MW with a max altitude of about 5000 ft. ASL. The lifter trains could be GigaFlys as shown. Three cells or more is gigawatt scale.           Image in JPG          Image in PDF The six wingmills fire in synchronous sequence by being linked, tuned, & staged downwind/crosswind diagonally to drive a massive crankshaft well in the class of supership machinery (~50 MW). The cells orient to wind-veering by a compass-belay sequence in an anchor circle. Trim lines forestall the urgency to belay. The center power station is a turret. A unitized worker/pilot can supervise about 10 MW of AWEC 7/24 capacity on an averaged basis, so a crew of about one hundred could operate a gigawatt plant at high capacity. It would truly be like sailing tall-ships in the sky, a golden age as cheap reliable auto-flygens & fusion power slowly mature. All operations have long proven analogs in industry well within normal skilled labor capabilities. There would be suitable handling machinery & operators would face little hazard. Runaway kites will be a very rare as everything is either two lines or has a passive kill line as a deadman switch. One cool detail is an auxiliary "Whiskey-Line" that can pull the entire rig to windward as it is flown higher. Thus the wing mils are always canted upwind to provide self-lift with high power or reversibly slacked to kill the oscillation & drag the rig lower to pause or douse. Sequential wingmill firing is working well in simple experiments. I'll keep working on the written description, but the attached image shows clockwise from top-left a side, front, 3/4 concept, & plan view. Please create a link to the image & this note can be forwarded to the forum. Thanks to Wayne German for inspiration & feedback on this sort of "flying thicket" concept which maximizes safety & energy extraction from minimal airspace at lowest capital cost. ~~ Dave Santos KiteLab Group FairIP/CoopIP

Article development will occur at
http://www.energykitesystems.net/FairIP/GWgroundgen.html

 Welcome Jeremy Calvert  with Kitebot.org

Kitebot       "DIY KE"

Water analogue of wafting:

http://www.yuenergy.com/Underwater_YOG_Model.html

YU Energy Group is tapping wind. Their spectrum of interests a hydro-AWE analogic,

and their wind is near-AWE. They are invited to explore full wind AWE.

http://www.yuenergy.com/Humanitarian_Mobile_YOG.html

Future US Offshore AWECS may be affected by decision

Cape Wind Decision 

The YU Energy Group technology may be well suited to pumping water to higher elevation . . . and bypass an electrical system to do so. The hydraulic pumped storage system will then generate electric power from storage AND only during peak demand periods.
 
 
Harry

 

---

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: joefaust333@gmail.com
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 13:26:32 +0000
Subject: [AWECS] Re: YU Energy Group has a humanitariarn wind version

 

I helped construct such a device decades ago.  The "Flutterwing" depended on the change in center of pressure as it stalled at the end of each stroke to flip the angle of attack for the return stroke.   It was mounted on a half-round hull, with outriggers alternately lifting buckets of water which poured into a pipe leading to an elevated tank on shore.  Only one was built.  I think it fell into the ingenious and simple but expensive bin.

Bob Stuart

Texts adopted
Tuesday, 25 September 2007 - Strasbourg	Final edition
Road Map for renewable energy in Europe

Page see 

which included the following:

"3.  Believes that renewable energy sources are abundant on our planet and that the challenge is to extract energy from them; recommends that the revenues generated from ETS auctioning and research funds should be used for research into renewable sources of energy, including promising and challenging sources, such as osmosis energy, tidal energy, wave energy, concentrated solar power, high altitude wind power, laddermill energy and algae fuel technology;"

Found via following a lead from the most recent new AWEIA member
Alexander Mijatovic

It is my pleasure to introduce a new member of AWEIA,
Alexander Mijatovic of Aero Drum, Ltd.  Current high service regards
Aerial Photo Systems and RC Blimps.  However, examination of his
web site, he has shown some keen interest in high altitude wind power.
All three directions have potential play in airborne wind energy technology.
http://www.rc-zeppelin.com/
Imagine uses of aerial photography at AWE test sites, AWECS installations,
aloft inspection duty, phtographing AWECS site-installation events, and more.
Consider kytoon and aerostat lifters for experimental AWECS.
More: notice his drawings and reference notes
on the page HERE. "High Altitude Wind Energy"
and more HAWP drawings on
page HERE http://www.rc-zeppelin.com/Contact.html

amijat@sezampro.rs     Email: Office Aero Drum ltd
Aero Drum Ltd
Vojislava ilica 99a, Belgrade, Serbia,
+381 (0) 11 2831 354,
+381 (0) 11 2833 216,
Skype: alexmijat
Lift to all everywhere,
JoeF

One of the links did not get printed in the primary post.
Another effort:

High Altitude Wind Energy   or same:

http://www.rc-zeppelin.com/High%20Altitude%20Wind%20Generators.html   

http://www.wired.com/images/slideshow/2007/11/gallery_helicopter/masteroftheworld_albatross_detail.jpg

SAME here .

A link of interest to you all:

http://www.minesto.com/

Greetings from Belgium,
Reinhart

Hi Reinhart,


Very nice, thanks for the head up.

Dan'l

ironic if the first working "high altitude" system is below sea level...

It makes  a  lot of sense.  There are no storms down there,  neutral buoyancy is easy,  the power is predictable, and instead of  building an expensive tower with a hoist to raise the machinery for service, you just let it float up.  
I wish the company would just post the script instead of making me listen to chopped up video on a system that can usually play clips.

Bob Stuart

Paravanes have also been discussed for pumping water to a waterhead for energy storage into containers, into ponds, into floated containers, into lakes, into existing dams. The head can be used for grid loads.

Pumped water storage would be my  preference.  Compressed air  in seafloor bags  would loose the heat of compression, leading to lower efficiency. 

Bob Stuart

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AirborneWindEnergy
group.

File : /Wayne German/Soaren technology
Uploaded by : joe_f_90032 <joefaust333@gmail.com Description : To be informed of Soaren technology by Wayne German, contact Joe Faust for signing a non-disclosure agreemtn (NDA) regarding his AWE technology.

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AirborneWindEnergy/files/Wayne%20German/Soaren%20technology

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

joe_f_90032 <joefaust333@gmail.com

There are ways of raising "efficiency" of energy storage . . . see article at http://www.energypulse.net
 
Harry
 

---

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: bobstuart@sasktel.net
Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 13:54:28 -0600
Subject: Re: [AWECS] Re: Water kite

 

Quite right, unless the heat of compression is scavenged at the compressor, its lost to the sea (except over geothermal vents). On the other hand the refrigeration of decompression might be valuable. A pumped storage limitation is the considerable head needed to really pay. High evaporation also degrades capacity.    Air is only for relatively short distances of maybe a few km. Even small leaks in a high pressure hose robs lots of power. It is amazing how a high voltage submarine cable only a few cm dia can carry hundreds of MW. If it weren't quite so massy & dangerous it would be ideal for AWE.    A problem with any undersea energy farm is all the branches & interconnects, while a simple submarine transmission line can be one clean continuous cable. ,

Any particular article there,Harry?
Good point about the possible utility of cooling.  This is all site-specific.  Pumped water storage is not attractive on a river delta, but it is in a fjord.  Relatively low working pressures would minimize losses from air storage, and might be all that is available anyway.   The extra volume is cheap enough, and might even be shaped to augment the flow patterns. 
I like  the notion of driving pumps directly.  It can save a lot of expense, especially around water, and gives a high efficiency, low cost solution to the goal of power on demand. 
For small to medium scale devices, a bellows pump can be made using an old tire, and driven by an arrangement to vary the stroke according to available torque.  Even in large arrays, they can be an economical alternative.

Bob Stuart

Bob,   Funny you should mention bellows pumps made from old tires. A couple of years ago as membrane wing mills for AWE emerged it became clear they could yank a cheap tire bellows nicely. Just make two steel plate or thick plywood sandwiches with the anchor bolts & valves added; clamp over each sidewall bead & pump away.   The geothermal vent energy source is enticing. The seafloor spreading zones are vast & surely somewhere it will prove far easier to tap freely rising superheated water than geothermal well drilling on land with limited heat transfer. Hotspot energy could be the least impact super-renewable of all.   The kitey way to dynamically/nomadicly tap deep ocean resources is a Wayne German style tethered foil pair where one foil maybe acts in a surface current while the other is in a deep return flow current. One might "hover" over a hotspot, making hydrogen fuel with steam turbine generators, & migrate to a new hotspots as desired.   Large ambient-compressed underwater hydrogen stores in anchored bags underwater is potentially practical. Hydrogen is explosive if even a small percentage of oxygen is present, even if ignition in the chilly deep is unlikely, but if the hydrogen is ~99% pure then what is the downside?   daveS       fairIP/coopIP

The downside to any technology that uses pure hydrogen is that the stuff is very hard to contain,  and becomes a potent greenhouse gas when released. 

Funny you should mention hydrothermal vents.   I've been bugging Bruce Marshall to plan his  apparatus for regular removal of mineral deposits,  but he is  right about the game-changing potential of  these natural features.  A site on  the handy Juan de  Fuca fault could supply 50 submarine electric  cables of the largest size laid to date.

Bob Stuart

Hydrogen stored at ambient pressure does not leak fast, it wants positive pressure to push it through a membrane. A seabag can be far thicker than any LTA gas bag. Gas loss might be neglible.   The Juan de Fuca fault is rather convenient...

Thanks, Joe.  Harry has some good points there.  I think he's missing one good bet,  though.  He proposes using the heat of compressing air for desalinization or other process heat before storing the air in a salt  dome.  Such a huge cavern might be almost self-insulating by the square-cube law, once it got up to a new ambient temperature.  However, assuming that the air comes  out of the 1st expansion stage below ambient temperature, it could pick up energy from an ocean-fed heat exchanger or solar-assisted air exchanger.  High-pressure plumbing does not come cheap, but it can put the overall efficiency of compressed-air storage over unity, just  like a home heat pump.

Bob Stuart

Great article, Harry.    I particularly liked the reminder that "waste" heat-of-compression is suitable for heat-distillation desalination.   A lot of the Middle East needs more fresh water & has good wind for AWE that if used for compression (perhaps into spent oil wells), the heat byproduct can power desalination. There is hardly any other use of the heat in many regions that would be so synergistic.   Of course heat-of-compression is also perfect for space-heating in Northern cold.

...Attention... Deficit... Disorder...
focus people, focus - remember the topic here:
Airborne wind energy
Without any energy produced, no need to talk of storage...
and
Let's remember,
If anyone comes up with a better way to store energy than lead/acid batteries, there is unlimited demand for it NOW buying cheap power at night and selling it at the peak demand times.
So what is all this? It is giving up. It's saying "We don't have any way to make a usable amount of airborne power, so let's just keep changing the subject to slightly related topics and maybe nobody will notice (especially us) that we are no closer to making airborne power this week, than we were last week...

Joe F. was asking what stats to include in something or other the other day...
Well I can think of a few:
1) How many megawatt-hours were generated by various systems in each month; (real wind energy publications like to start there)
2) New benchmarks of power set by prototypes;
3) longest-running system in continuous use;
4) First system to completely power a home or business;
5) First actual use of airborne wind energy as we know it (not APU's of airplanes etc.)
I mean, take a few clues from the wind energy industry as it actually exists - what do they talk about? System outputs and costs, maintenance issues, how to adjust performance parameters to get more output...
There is absolutely no reason why we cannot have some sort of working system, useful to someone, somewhere, with the technology already at hand.
The only thing is, nobody is building them.
And let's look at technology such as Magenn. OK those guys have been around for quite awhile now. Real wind energy people see the largest, most expensive version of the lowest-performing turbine conceivable there. After these years of flying turbines with their millions of dollars raised, where is their performance? You wanna know where? Nowhere, which is why you never hear of it powering anything. You never hear any output stats. It is a huge waste of money and all that's truly going on in my opinion is that the investors are not well-versed in the physics of wind energy so they can be told essentially anything, and you get a few press releases and fancy logos and all of a sudden, how much power the darn thing is capable of is conveniently swept under the rug, as even an issue to discuss, "just for now", while more money is raised.
I think you could hang a $500 turbine from their blimp and it would make more power than rotating the blimp itself, where a only a small fraction of the thing is capable of getharing a small fraction of the power through that small fraction of area. The resulting fraction of a fraction is probably so low that it is difficult to even measure. Maybe they can power a laptop charger with a $100,000 system, eh? As long is it doesn't get too windy or anything - whoah there, gotta be careful we don't blow this fragile envelope apart!
Like a game of musical chairs the only question is how long til it all falls apart (from a business sense, please forgive the pun). And with no shortage of suckers in the world (1 born every minute last I heard) there would seem to be no end to this shell game. As I have pointed out, we in wind energy have heard this same story year after year with all sorts of "new" turbine types. It is a well-worn mantra: "We expect data soon to verify our projections"... - thay it with a lithp!
"We exthpect data thoon to verify our projectionth".
thay it with a thpray of thaliva!
OK I for one have blogged away enough of this potentially-productive day.
I am grateful for this forum, and for the focus on extracting usable power from high-flying apparatus. Now let's all stop trying to convince each other that we are geniuses by endlessly diverging into peripheral issues, and let's get something up and running that makes any sort of usable power for anyone. THEN you can talk about "an industry" however small it may be at first. One usable system - that's all we ask!
Maboomba!
Doug Selsam
Selsam Innovations / USWINDLABS
2600 Porter Ave. Unit B
Fullerton, CA 92833
714-992-5594
Doug@Selsam.com
http://www.Selsam.com

Doug,   Please clearly understand this thread's relevance- how AWE promises to be an ideal source of power for many processes, like desalinization & space-heating, that accept intermittent "low-grade" energy gracefully. Compression & pumping is a huge area of legitimate AWE interest. These threads are fine contributions.   Your post ignores the actual topic in favor of your persistently mistaken opinion that AWE remains undemonstrated, when many great demos now exist. Mario's power curves were presented to you, as requested, & you failed to shoot them down. You were next asked to consider TU Delft's claims, next Makani's, & so on. Don't skip this homework while using Magenn as your straw-man. This troubled design has scant relevance to the real AWE world. Try knocking down TU Delft next, as requested.   How goes your proclaimed 1kw "weekend" AWE project? You would be the first, clearly at least in your own mind, to succeed at AWE, & so easily too, where all us lesser workers in your opinion failed. Desalinate or space-heat for extra credit,   dave

Hi Dave S.:
Well as I mentioned to Joe F., I'm pursuing wind energy at many levels. And thanks for your challenges but as I pointed out, you have already seen a 1kW+ system of mine running so why ask about a 1 kW system? You saw it - you were there. Interesting that my demo system cost perhaps $200 plus, using some donated carbon fiber tubes and wooden propellers made from nature's affordable composite.

While I have designs that I think will work great for AWE, I'm time constrained, and my main goal at this point is constructing working systems that make reliable and affordable power, however they are supported, since after many years at this, I've found that working systems are all that can truly convince anyone, let alone be useful to anyone.

If you are the first to get a working system up and running that produces useful power on a regular basis, I will be your biggest cheerleader.
But what you may not know is that Heronemus had diagrams in National Geographic magazine at least 35 years ago, showing how wind power could be used to make hydrogen, which could be stored in underwater containers.
The point is: so what? Has anyone figured out an economical use for stored hydrogen from wind power, or using hydrogen to store electrical energy, from the big turbines we already have that produce electricity at around 5 cents/kWh?
The answer is NO.
Why?
1) 50% efficiency of electrolysis;
2) 50% energy loss to to heat, to compress this gas that has an EXTREMELY low energy per molecule;
3) 70% energy loss by combustion to generate the electricity again
4) 10% loss in the generator itself.
Result?
.5 x .5 x .3 x x .9 = .0675
So your total efficiency is only 6.75%, best case scenario.
Use a fuel cell instead of an internal combustion engine and you are still at maybe 10 or 12% efficiency of energy storage.

Now I know you have answers for all this - how you'll utilize a high temp, high-pressure electrolysis to improve that efficiency, recover the heat lost to compression etc.
BUT
All those improvements are hypothetical and if they were economic, might already be in use.
What it really does is this:
It allows Dave S. to be a daily genius in the "field" of AWE while not only NOT building the machines and NOT producing the power, but after a while NOT even discussing the AWE designs at all anymore but instead diverging into energy storage technologies etc.

Please realize: If you can generate electricity economically, there is a market for it. You do not need to store it yet. You're not making that much more power than the grid can absorb yet. ;)

The point is that unless and until anyone develops the way to get the AWE power in the first place, discussions of exactly how to store it are moot and way ahead of what is needed at this time to develop the AWE technology itself.
Hare/Tortoise
Dougout.

Now you need to make you airborne system 10 X as big to overcome your hydrogen storage inefficiency.
This has all been gone over many many many times in the world of real wind energy and energy in general, and that is why after all these years of examining such a system, nobody is using it.
You could not use such a system to buy cheap electricity at night and sell it back in the day, even in France where the nuke-tricity is free at night, since your system costs would render it a money loser.
Meanwhile you have spent all that time developing an energy storage technology and obviously had no time to develop your actual airborne energy system.
As I said:
Focus focus focus.
You will never get there from here if you endlessly diverge from the path.
Think "hair vs tortoise".
You or someone in this group probably have something that could be up and running now if only someone had the focus to actually build it. I know I do. So I guess enough of blogging another day away.
Ironically even posting on this list must be done judiciously since it is in reality one more distraction that could potentially take one away from actual system development.
And no I don't need to pick on a "straw man" of Magenn, although they are a great illustration of how people can go on treating a completely unworkable system as though there is something worth talking about with it at all. My God, imagine millions of dollars to run bicycle wheels and make probably less than a hundred watts with a machine that large - who the heck does anyone think they are fooling?
Whomever has the first system up that generates usable power on a reliable and regular basis, I am 100% behind you!
:)
Doug S.

Doug,   Dang, i forgot to repeat that the key challenge for you is to tap wind well above tower level & you clearly accepted to try. Your old system only flew unreliably at 38 feet (about 20ft mean), was already dangerous, unwieldy, & did not promise to scale greatly. You blew far more on helium than the electricity was worth.   Dave Lang patiently explained to you that ROI is a fundamental predictor of success, not calculated efficiency. Many successful industrial processes operate at "low" efficiency. There is so much AWE airspace that your claim of efficiency by swept disc diameter is a foolish standard compared to ROI.   Direct work like pumping & propulsion is a core concern of this forum, not just electrical generation, so let folks discuss such. To provide something on-topic here, let me note that distillation from waste heat of compression is a useful first stage before pumping thru an expensive RO filter.   Regarding your fixed idea that nothing in AWE works, i recently reported two new working AWE systems on Joe Faust's "mini" & "toy" scale. A blindness is not see the utility of a cheap simple safe "cell phone charger" working nicely right now. For you to say that this particular thread (desalinization & space-heat) was evidence that nothing in AWE works is not only false logic, but also a general insult to all the fine 10kw class demos.    Just try & shoot down TUDelft's claim next. They provided power curves & video with power metering shown, just as you demand. Otherwise please stop the red-herring off-topic interruptions & focus on your backyard turbine problems. Particularly don't complain about the current pioneering state-of-the-art AWE when its far better than what you bother to attempt.   dave

Hi,

May I just say that Doug really has a point with his small diameter turbines / vs. ROI. Not because of the airspace, but because they can be produced far more easy then their large counterparts. For mass-production of wind turbines the use of blades that can be injection moulded would be ideal. Not the intensive hand-labour that is used nowadays.


I think Doug does have a constructive opinion and hopes with us all that AWE will work. I would also like to see a video of a working kite energy system that produces a lot of power, not a couple of watts. To live up to the hype, let's say :-)

Greetings from Belgium,

Reinhart