Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES14189to14239 Page 179 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14189 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Re: R: [AWES] Re: Study KiteGen's paper on patents

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14190 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14191 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Ski-Tow Cableway as AWES Launch Model

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14192 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Long-distance aerial-cables supported by circle-towed kite-nodes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14193 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14194 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14195 From: Marcello Corongiu - Sequoia Automation Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: R: [AWES] Re: Study KiteGen's paper on patents

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14196 From: Rod Read Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14197 From: Rod Read Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14198 From: Rod Read Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14199 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Re: R: [AWES] Re: Study KiteGen's paper on patents

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14200 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14201 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: "Poleline" Hardware Pattern Language

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14202 From: Rod Read Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Daisy setup for automatic launching and landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14203 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Re: Daisy setup for automatic launching and landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14204 From: Rod Read Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Re: Daisy setup for automatic launching and landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14205 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Re: Daisy setup for automatic launching and landing

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14206 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14207 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14208 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Disney joins in to get the AWES message out

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14210 From: Joe Faust Date: 9/2/2014
Subject: Re: Disney joins in to get the AWES message out

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14211 From: Rod Read Date: 9/3/2014
Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14212 From: Joe Faust Date: 9/3/2014
Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14213 From: dave santos Date: 9/3/2014
Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14214 From: dave santos Date: 9/3/2014
Subject: SpiderMill Notes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14215 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/3/2014
Subject: Re: SpiderMill Notes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14216 From: Rod Read Date: 9/3/2014
Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14217 From: Rod Read Date: 9/3/2014
Subject: Re: SpiderMill Notes

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14218 From: dave santos Date: 9/4/2014
Subject: Cinematography Cableway-Rigging Similarity-Case

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14219 From: dave santos Date: 9/4/2014
Subject: Amazing Snow Kite Swarm

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14220 From: stephane rousson Date: 9/4/2014
Subject: Voiliers des Airs, Essai fin Septembre / Sky-sailing Yacht Ready for

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14221 From: Joe Faust Date: 9/4/2014
Subject: Kite power systems in automatic operation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14222 From: dave santos Date: 9/4/2014
Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14223 From: dougselsam Date: 9/4/2014
Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14224 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/4/2014
Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14225 From: dave santos Date: 9/5/2014
Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14226 From: dougselsam Date: 9/5/2014
Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14227 From: dave santos Date: 9/5/2014
Subject: Urban Aerial Cableways Over La Paz (similarity case)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14228 From: dave santos Date: 9/5/2014
Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14229 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/5/2014
Subject: Re: Kite Power Solutions Ltd

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14230 From: dave santos Date: 9/5/2014
Subject: Re: Kite Power Solutions Ltd

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14231 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/5/2014
Subject: Water analogue for AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14232 From: dave santos Date: 9/6/2014
Subject: Potential-Energy of Airborne-Mass by Height (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14233 From: dave santos Date: 9/6/2014
Subject: Fog Harvesting inspired by kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14234 From: dougselsam Date: 9/7/2014
Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14235 From: dougselsam Date: 9/7/2014
Subject: Re: Kite Power Solutions Ltd

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14236 From: dougselsam Date: 9/7/2014
Subject: Re: Fog Drip Harvesting inspired by kites

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14237 From: dave santos Date: 9/7/2014
Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14238 From: dave santos Date: 9/7/2014
Subject: Re: Kite Power Solutions Ltd

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14239 From: Baptiste Labat Date: 9/7/2014
Subject: Fwd: [free-kitesim] ANNOUNCE: Fully working version of 4-point kite-



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14189 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Re: R: [AWES] Re: Study KiteGen's paper on patents
Dear Marcello,

KiteGen patents are "rubbish" only to the degree that Massimo put extreme over-emphasis on filing patents. If the world needs AWE so urgently, its quite immoral to seek to an AWE patent monopoly for the private gain of a few, as Massimo vainly attempted. Your written discussion of KiteGen patents omitted any moral dimension, and did not explain why one Italian start-up owns as many patents as all of EU put together (!).

KiteGen, seems unable to point to any specific patent claim that can be considered strategic key art to fairly to block competition. Its not as if the stem, side-slip, and an exotic new C-kite is technical dominance. KiteGen patents only have an untested statistical value, and are grossly overvalued by KiteGen management claims.

KiteGen's censorship of serious patent discussion on its Yahoo Group is diagnostic. The Open-AWE world has incredible powers of documentation, and likely can show prior-art or a better method to invalidate or beat every KiteGen claim. The belief is that KiteGen is willfully blocking guilty-knowledge of AWE alternatives to patent examiners and investors (esp. SABIC Ventures).

Because KiteGen is not acting socially or technically responsible enough to lead the emerging AWE industry as a cooperative movement, it only faces criticism, and the expectation that its technology will not be competitive. Investors should be informed that KiteGen is widely seen to be exaggerating its patent portfolio value, as a Patent Troll, and that the key metric to KiteGen's actual worth is the critical reliability of its prototypes over thousands of cycles.

Thanks if you can help resolve growing complaints over KiteGen's patent fixation, public censorship, and refusal to answer open technical questions. It is suggested that KiteGen reform itself under new management, and free its patents (under the same logic as Tesla Motors) to generate public good-will and give KiteGen a final chance to lead us all, as a global cooperative R&D movement. Otherwise, watch Open-AWE and other investors bypass a lost KiteGen in future rounds,

dave santos


On Monday, September 1, 2014 1:06 AM, Marcello Corongiu - Sequoia Automation <m.corongiu@sequoiaonline.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14190 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing
Thanks to Roland for the paper link.

Stefan Haug's worthy study and prototype kite-mast work builds on Kite Boat Gna's brilliant kite-mast system from over a century ago. Lets call AWES mast variants of this class "Gna Masts".

Fig. 2.7 gives most of us a first peek* at Aympx's KULeuven-style spin launch intent. It looks workable, given that a high L/D high-mass kiteplane can potentially easily reach two-year delay at work in following the internal brainstorming and field-work of the TUDelft circle publicly, so the shared material seems stale. The AWE knowledge delay is two-way; for example, where in TUD's recent papers is any consideration of step-towing, ongoing work with kite arrays (trains and arches), mass cascaded launch and landing methods, etc..?

The public AWES ideas emerging in real-time may have already relegated single kite-unit schemes (like GnaMast kites) to niche status. The recent TUD flirtation with poorly-scalable Bell stick-kites (as somehow scalable) flew in the face of well-known stick-kite physics limitations. They won't get too many golden chances to lead the AWE world, for example, by seriously developing Wubbo's SpiderMills as a scalable dynamically configurable AWES architecture.


* is they an earlier disclosure (?)




On Monday, September 1, 2014 6:36 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14191 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Ski-Tow Cableway as AWES Launch Model

What is the simplest mechanical basis for towing a kite to working altitude from surface calm? The primitive continuous-loop ski-tow suggests a workable simple kite-tow model. Its easy to imagine a tow-loop operating in both directions, or more, by running tow-paths in any desired direction (perhaps a triangle-loop). No masts or towers needed.

Keep in mind two powerful tow-initiated variants- Step-towing systems can reach high altitude from a small surface-run, and cascaded-launch of massive arrays can occur in stages starting with a single small kite raising a pilot-line (aka "messenger-line")-

Ski tow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14192 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Long-distance aerial-cables supported by circle-towed kite-nodes
We know how to keep a kite up in no wind by phased tugs around a circle (or tri-tether triangle). Such a persistent-flight kite-unit can hold up a section of long-distance aerial-cable for any desired transport application (electricity, irrigation, gondolas, etc.).

One could in principle even duplicate the form and function of a suspension bridge, replacing massive tall piers with kites above. The kite can duplicate the traditional functions of utility-poles in "string" networks, but on a far more dynamic basis. Graphene is one of many driving enablers for a revolutionary flying infrastructure.

CC 4.x BY SA NC

-------------------------------------------
Detailed study of utility-pole "plants" is suggestive for the kite case-

UTILITY POLES
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14193 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing
DaveS just asked:  
* is they an earlier disclosure (?)
===========================
I am not sure of what tech the question had in mind. 
However, stick- or pole enhanced kiting is a near-ancient basic. 
Some old etching show strings at end of poles or masts having wings in tow. 
Then toys with hand-held sticks holding lines with wings at the end of strings. 
Of course, the human body is a pole that early enhanced the height of wing on a string.
In later years in late 1800s L. Hargrave had pole-enhanced kiting; at lulls the wing would not reach the ground; then self-launch was easy. 


 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14194 From: dave santos Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing
Hargrave disclosure was a linear cable, rather than a rotary launch method (separate question: did Hargrave ever tow-launch from the cable?).

The question was about seeming Aympx down-select to Moritz's high-speed launching carousel. Are we just now finding this out two years late? Is this down-select decision holding? Had we seen the CAD model before, somewhere else? The context is whether we are falling behind tracking Dutch developments due to a correctable condition. 

Wubbo lives.




On Monday, September 1, 2014 5:07 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14195 From: Marcello Corongiu - Sequoia Automation Date: 9/1/2014
Subject: R: [AWES] Re: Study KiteGen's paper on patents
Attachments :

    I really don’t know on what should I reply. I could say that Kitegen patents are outstanding and unbeatable, but my opinion would probably have a modest value, being directly involved in that.

    I believe that opinions on patent’s quality have a value when issued within a due diligence performed (for any pupose, like investing, as SABIC did) by third party’s qualified people (or by judges in Courts, obviously…).  

     

    Dave Santos is thus entitled to consider as rubbish the KiteGen patent asset, he won’t probably invest on the technology.

     

    Aside that, anybody interested can make its own opinion up on the issue. Patents are (mostly) public.

     

    To the sake of precision, as mentioned in the website homepage, KitVes is not a ship-kite player but a FP7 funded project leaded by Sequoia Automation, aimed to deploy the kite generation system on board a vessel.

     

    All the best

     

    Marcello Corongiu

    Sequoia Automation S.r.l.

    C.so Lombardia, 63/c

    10099 – S. Mauro Torinese (TO)

    ITALY

    www.kitegen.com

     

    CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

     

    This message and its attachements (if any) may contain confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information and it is intended only for the use of the addressee named above. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that you must not use, disseminate, copy it in any form or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this message in error, please delete it (and any copies of it) and kindly inform the sender, of this e-mail, by replying.

     

    Da: dave santos [mailto:santos137@yahoo.com]
    Inviato: venerdì 29 agosto 2014 21:56
    A: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Cc: m.corongiu@sequoiaonline.com
    Oggetto: Re: [AWES] Re: Study KiteGen's paper on patents

     

    KiteGen is seen as the leading Patent Troll in AWE, with seemingly more filings than the rest of Europe combined. They spend a lot of capital for what are considered junk-patents, and cannot point to any specific patent claim as essential, but are constantly promoting to investors like SABIC Ventures that its weak kite patents actually matter. 

     

    The counter view is that 150 years of kite patents long ago flushed out the key AWE ideas into the public domain. Open-AWE seems to have all the prior art it needs to prevail. KiteGen blocks critical discussion of its extreme patent claims on its group list.

     

    The author of the KiteGen patent analysis is given as M. Corongiu . This comes up in search as m.corongiu@sequoiaonline.com. MARCELLO CORONGIU  (Cc:ed for a chance to respond here).

     

    Marcello is the lead contact for KitVes, a ship-kite player-

     

     

     

    Immagine rimossa dal mittente. image

     

     

     

     

     


    Preview by Yahoo


     









     

     

    On Friday, August 29, 2014 12:19 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14196 From: Rod Read Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing
    Step-tow, just as single line yo-yo methods are going to take huge space to operate in all winds.
    I like the morphological chart suggestion Combination 417-416-535
    And ok... where it's a bit high tech... using drones for multi point assisted launch (I'd rather a lift force threshold release than velcro) It is actually feasible and neatly efficient given todays disposable quadcopter tech standards... Not only that... but it's a launch method which would suit massive array lift arches and possibly capable of repositioning a grounded kite to ready for launch.
    Drones "routinely" now have group communication, decision and capability solving algorithms and machine vision onboard.

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14197 From: Rod Read Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing
    Quad copters fixed into Mothra panels anyone? Nah / maybe
    Could they sit in-line charging in the wind waiting for their burst of assisted drop work?
    It's been suggested before. But the drawback of weight and drag over the ammount of time they would be usefully deployed may be a waste.

    Replaceable connecting releasing drones leave the lift surfaces clean.
    They can already land on sheltering charging pads.

    A held drone / lift backup may be able to serve as communications relay device when overcharging would otherwise be a waste.
    Any new, grid connected, farm electricity generation system not able to provide live data is laughed at. (by boring engineer people albeit, but laughed at all the same)

    Drones could serve as launchers to many separate sites.

    One more point on lifting underneath an arch....
    Say once an arch is launched it is allowed to fly higher than it's static operating altitude.
    Extra tether and bridling force above operational force levels can be applied to the arch in order to quickly initiate the launch of any weird or wonderful generator which prefers quick setting. e.g. a high arch can be pulled down into place as it lifts a generator wing up into place

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14198 From: Rod Read Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing
    I've enjoyed reading the thesis. This is a useful and very thorough text. A lot of work is demonstrated. hope nobody gets upset with my grumbles...

    Even though it agrees with my viewpoint I'd argue with the papers reliance on the AHP analysis method. Clear definition of the criteria used is necessary.
    As we found out in chapter one non-static launch and retrieval systems are the best solutions in a kite power application.
    There's certainly no proof given.

    ACE: The overall CO2 analysis says everything we already knew about tower based wind energy....
    By the use of an ordinary foundation the amount of concrete and it’s CO2 emission are
    approximately 90% of the whole CO2 emission of the whole system. Reducing the amount
    of concrete by x% lowers the CO2 emission at the moment by 0.9x%

    = where possible get rid of towers based in concrete.

    In the conclusions balloons are described as being expensive to fill... There doesn't seem to be any support for this in the main text. Say a balloon has a gland in its plug .. The balloon  tether pulls the plug back down guided onto a nozzle which pierces through the gland... On raising the balloon the gland self seals when it comes off the nozzle. H2 = cheap

    How long does a balloon need to be up? A minute or two until the kite is launched. Retract and deflate if preferred.

    The paper mentions modes of sheltering the kite in strong winds and launching in strong winds. There will be logical thresholds of confidence guiding operational state so that both of these circumstances necessarily exist ... Where is the data on the transition speed occurrence of the low range to the high wind speed state that necessarily precludes balloons or UAV?
    Cheap stock quadcopters fly over 40mph out of the box and can still lift. The downdraft problem can be overcome using a smooth hook on a weak recoil line.

    Again a spread anchored arch lift with drone launch spans a mix of all 3 of the stated classes of launch system (Heavy, Lightweight and supporting)   One major added benefit is the reduced lift needed from UAV to initiate launch once the leading edge is raised . . . as the kite auto inflates... ergo massive kite control savings on the launch steering system...

    Oh yeah my early bug bear was not recognising Daisy types as a groundgen method...
    Now that's proven ((ish) wish someone would replicate please) This could be factored into the design of the next thesis. Did I mention I wanted on the TUD course.? Does everyone know they can use my models for comparative study if they so desire?

    grumbling over

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14199 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Re: R: [AWES] Re: Study KiteGen's paper on patents
    Marcello,

    Thank you for your willingness to discuss due diligence review of KiteGen patents. I am sorry if you are being put on the spot by KiteGen's cover-up effort. Real due-diligence review of KiteGen patents has barely begun.

    This discussion is about striking-down or upholding the exact inventive claims KiteGen is making, to help SABIC Ventures (and other investors) best decide how to invest in the future, as they continue in the AWE sector. SABIC's due-diligence responsibility is not over, and they may decide KiteGen has suppressed serious critique, that its extreme patent claims do not hold up to the hype, and that more diversified SABIC investment is needed, across the broad AWE R&D community, in order to meet their goals.

    KiteGen is asked is to specifically identify ANY claims in its patent portfolio that are truly essential. Open-AWE critics maintain there are NO such claims; that abundant prior art exists, and the patents are "junk" and KiteGen is wrongly conducting a patent-troll business model, which would be harmful if allowed to flourish.

    So what exact KiteGen patent claims are essential invention? SABIC Ventures has a professional duty to know,

    dave santos




    On Monday, September 1, 2014 9:33 PM, "'Marcello Corongiu - Sequoia Automation' m.corongiu@sequoiaonline.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14200 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Re: Experimental setup for automatic launching and landing
    Rod,

    A couple of notes-

    Step-tow actually allows launching and climbing in very tight spaces, and kite farms will be plenty large for stepping up to 600m.

    High-winds limit launch operations by turbulent surface surges more than by limiting launching drones. There is plenty of lift to be had without a quadcopter or such-like.

    H2 is a nonstarter on multiple grounds (negative synergy). Its corrosive, explosive (~3% air), and a powerful greenhouse gas. The costs of properly mitigating these inherent defects makes for high relative cost.

    The Daisy needs a plausible way to 600m high operation. Its not enough to only tap low wind. You also need to show "all modes" operations. I think these are reasonable goals, but you have to solve them convincingly to attract support (given the large pack of competing schemes).

    I also found the tabular analysis method stilted (but interesting). I would first address ALL critical factors* as equally imperative, and only rank desirements for vetting,

    daveS


    * Whereby something obviously "major", like a good anchor, can be as critical as something seemingly "minor", like a clear pitot tube.


    On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 6:43 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14201 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: "Poleline" Hardware Pattern Language
    Low-complexity prototype AWES borrow COTS parts from many sources. We start with scrap and toy hardware from kites, sport-fishing, and other hobbies, then rely on bike, mountain-climbing, and sailing hardware to get more serious, and now many of us are ready to move on to catalogs of heavy automotive, farm, and other suppliers. In the distance, we see mega-scale industrial parts waiting for our use.

    Overhead cable rigging on utility poles (poleline hardware) is the latest universal hardware pattern language at our service. Here is a representative supplier, whose specialized parts are of obvious interest to those rigging low-complexity AWES surface infrastructure (steel-layer)-

    http://www.comstarsupply.com/aerial-equipment/poleline-hardware.html
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14202 From: Rod Read Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Daisy setup for automatic launching and landing
    I may well be blinkered by the facts of where I live... Large open space and loads of wind...
    That's why my designs work in rough turbulent low air... but there should be quite a bit of scaling left in them... I'm going to build a faster ring next ... then try stacking after that.

    To get a step tow pilot kite to 600m ... How big a circle do you need even if you use bipod tether pumping across wind... like two upwind tethers of your tri tether rig... and really good wind.?

    H2 ain't that bad a greenhouse gas. Not like we'd need loads anyway, as re-launches would be infrequent at that altitude.  really good clean explosions. plenty loud. You don't have to keep the balloons filled. Still I prefer drones.

    Daisy may prove to be optimal below 600m. It may even get there efficiently under loads of lift... later.. The stacking system would have to be very impressive... certainly it's easier envisaged in a tidal scenario http://youtu.be/NTAtb6uLGM4

    A more likely quickly realised method of 600m high, densely coordinated, sky filling energy extraction is a multi layered, multi phase pumped crank addressed, wide spread feet, foot pumping stack of arches.

    Daisy has happily self relaunched pole mounted... able to weathercock 360... but an auto storage stack & launching feature will be tougher to implement.


    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14203 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Re: Daisy setup for automatic launching and landing
    We looked at hang-glider step-tows a couple of years ago, and it seemed that, by design, the tow climb-out from a small field was feasible from a field otherwise too small for single-tow climb-out. One can climb about as high as a field is wide, in bounds, and far higher, if allowed to step-tow up outside the kite-field bounds.

    Everything one says or does about H2 may not matter if the lack of an H2 mass-culture persists. One would have to hack the DIY tech almost from scratch, and it would likely die with the fringy tinkerer (hopefuly of old age). Kites are another world, without any critical H2 dependence.

    Try to back your Dasiy claims with data as much as possible. How do you really prove a Daisy powers and handles better than other options? It has to be tested comparatively to validate strong subjective claims. I make the same case for Morthas, and all the rest, that we have barely begun the vettings and validations of the major AWES testing program required.


    On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 12:58 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14204 From: Rod Read Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Re: Daisy setup for automatic launching and landing
    I'll make a Mothra variant if you give me a good instruction set.
    Will somebody please go and make a comparable Daisy...??... begging

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14205 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Re: Daisy setup for automatic launching and landing
    Lots of folks do kite spinning and arches, so we at best only show cheaper and/or more effective versions, and can't possibly make all the variants we would like, especially large not-yet-optimal AWES at a few dollars a rated watt.

    Lets happily move-on to revolutionary kite concepts yet unexplored even at toy-scale, and revisit class variants as the R&D community and its resources grow.


    On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 2:25 PM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14206 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.

    More on the Google[X]  Project Wing

    Inside Google's Secret Drone-Delivery Program

     
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14207 From: dave santos Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.
    So for kite-based customer-delivery concept to compete with pure electric-drones, consider three tri-tether peristent-flight kites spaced in a wide triangle (or circle or grid of many units). These three flight units form the supports for a suspended transport layer over the land triangle. The transport layer is a pick and place (multi-service) network that delivers packages to any coordinate desired. Packages are lowered by "skycar", steerable-gondolas (with winch, rudder, and spoiler control).

    When the wind is blowing, the pick-and-place network self-powers, or even powers the regional grid, and when the wind stops, power is returned from storage (even including system-mass with extra-altitude as potential energy).

    CC 4.x BY SA NC


    On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 7:55 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14208 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Disney joins in to get the AWES message out

    Coming Big Hero 6 may forward the AWES message!

    Easter Eggs in 'Big Hero 6' Trailer
    Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14210 From: Joe Faust Date: 9/2/2014
    Subject: Re: Disney joins in to get the AWES message out
    Attachments :
      Big Hero 6, Disney. Clip from trailer. 
      ​
      		   @@attachment@@
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14211 From: Rod Read Date: 9/3/2014
      Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.
      Dave S,
      Weren't you encouraging us to stay focussed on the more likely AWES application recently.

      This is a welcome google approach to tech development. If this development methodology is applied to AWES... we might get the symbiotic mix of kite systems and drones doing power and delivery...

      Drones which launch kites could be sitting atop kites they launched above resources and generators. When a delivery is requested drone wind the package up to altitude and zipps off as far as it can on one charge... swaps position and package delivery duty with nearest networked drone (atop another kite) or power source. repeat until complete. Return drone to nearby empty drone service / servicing point.


      Rod Read

      Windswept and Interesting Limited
      15a Aiginis
      Isle of Lewis
      HS2 0PB

      07899057227
      01851 870878
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14212 From: Joe Faust Date: 9/3/2014
      Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.
      In some localities, the following kited delivery system might serve well:
      Kite up a held glider that holds the goods to be delivered. Release the glider to glide the goods to target. Glider could be of several sorts: 
      1. The very packaging could be shaped to be glider. Glider is controlled to hit the target. Catchers?  Smart system. 
      2. The goods might be the glider itself. Kite the glider up; release; deliver. 
      3.  The delivery glider might semi-sacrificial or fully so.  Reuse the paraglider for kite systems AWES-family building in the neighborhoods of delivery. Or save up many until local gathering efficiently returns many canopies and chips with controls. 

      Goods could be line messengered to high kited platform. Then the delivering gliders with goods in one of the choices ... could glide into addresses related to winds and glide angles. No auxiliary power, but just smart gliding and soaring. 

      ~ JoeF
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14213 From: dave santos Date: 9/3/2014
      Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.
      Rod,

      I was fretting about chasing niche applications, like holding up one's pants. This is my idea of a giant application; a regional multi-service network (energy, architecture, delivery, etc.). At its core, this idea is a field of persistent lifters lifting a utility infrastructure, which is about as universal a concept as there is in AWE.

      Make no mistake- Google did not invent the need for delivery (Amazon did, ha-ha), and this is not a "welcome Google approach" (ie. blowing money), but a thrifty competitor,

      daveS

      PS Are you voting for Scotland to be California?


      On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 8:12 AM, "Joe Faust joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14214 From: dave santos Date: 9/3/2014
      Subject: SpiderMill Notes
      A SpiderMill is a branching train of kite-units that pump in unison as an AWES [Ockels 2011]. This is an extremely scalable concept compared to all other known single-line architectures.

      - Classic kiting has flown branching trains for over a century. Several modern kitemasters specialize in such trains (Patton, MacPherson, etc.)

      - As a train, its height is only limited by the Stratosphere. Its width is limited by kite-unit leader-line/mainline spacing (to avoid kite-to-kite tangles in passive case).

      - Each kite-unit in a passive train is marginally stable, free to stall or loop and recover, while the overall train develops high "aggregate stability".

      - In order to pump, the kite-units must actively (so far as is known) coordinate with the pumping load cycle.

      - The branching nodes are traditionally tri-swivels (just like fishermen use). Giant tri-swivels would be a developmental specialty.

      - Kites will occasionally collide with the mainline, but at one small section, which can be specially rigged with chafing gear or roller-beads. The kite can be faired and reinforced along its leading edge to tolerate bumping the mainline.

      - In principle, a SpiderMill can assemble in mid-air, with the kite-units flying into place, docking, and managing their leader-lines.

      - Single working kite units are forecast not to scale much beyond 20-30m WS, and the optimal scale could be rather small (~15m WS).

      - A simple Spider has just one branching step from mainline to kite-unit, but multiple branching steps are possible (a SpiderMill of SpiderMills) in endless variations (like SpiderMills on arches).

      - The standard kite-unit flight dynamics (states) are parked, eights, loops, and ad-hoc trajectories in turbulence. These need to be in phase with the overall pumping rhythm.

      - The entire SpiderMill might pump at the cycle frequency of the kite-units, or more complex rhythms of sequential kite-unit phasing to convey pulses down the branches. This is an open topic.

      CC 4.x BY SA NC
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14215 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/3/2014
      Subject: Re: SpiderMill Notes
      We have already the spidered multi-line set of field-filled trains that pump rope via ground-paths to a central generator. Such can be as a train or stack of domes. 
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14216 From: Rod Read Date: 9/3/2014
      Subject: Re: Kite basis for customer-delivery v. Amazon, DHL, Google, etc.
      You're right,
      I think we're arguing the same point...
      Where I had drone you had sky car

      There is going to be a separate vote on changing the climate to match Californian after the independence referendum.


      Rod Read

      Windswept and Interesting Limited
      15a Aiginis
      Isle of Lewis
      HS2 0PB

      07899057227
      01851 870878
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14217 From: Rod Read Date: 9/3/2014
      Subject: Re: SpiderMill Notes
      To further the web spinning confusion....

      Spider mill ... is it so called because of the many legs in one line? in which case centipede mill ?

      A spider with it's radial legs, stands on a tensed web at a point where if feels vibration from any echo-locatable point on the web.

      Consider two hoisting points set in place underneath a Mothra type,
      after lift energy of each point is matched to the energy requirements of lines to be spread suspended below an arch kite load path... The resultant looks sorta like two classic corner spider webs.

      Could a tug on either centroid offset a foil / wing attached between the 2 centroids / between multiple points on the 2 meshes?
      Say a mothra stretches a vertical foresail on horizontal lines between each side... Can we influence the sail head cyclically to wag it's tail? rock the Mothra?

      Can the sail be tensioned to buzz on a harmonic like a reed (but quieter than my oldest kids chanter pipes) ?

      OR ~Similar to a drawing on youtube previously

      Hows about at the head of a mothra a sail is tensioned vertically. The two focus points (as above) have a line run through them to the sail clew. The clew lines are cyclically driven to keep tacking the sail. With the tack mounted on a x wind generation track. The phase of each clew line would have to be linked to the Tack movement

      That would certainly shake spiders off

      Rod Read

      Windswept and Interesting Limited
      15a Aiginis
      Isle of Lewis
      HS2 0PB

      07899057227
      01851 870878
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14218 From: dave santos Date: 9/4/2014
      Subject: Cinematography Cableway-Rigging Similarity-Case
      Garrett Brown has lead the development of amazing tether-based camera systems for the last forty years. Many techniques of interest to AWES design have been well validated by long experience at sports events, rain-forests, canyons, and many other extreme environments. The family of camera rigs are Protean, they roam land, water, air, or even underground, by common principles. Brown's first major invention, the SteadiCam, can not just remove turbulent motion, but also create it as a special effect.

      The SkyCam has four cables for fall safety, even though three, functionally, would suffice. Kevlar tethers contain fiber-optic links and electrical conductors. The SuperFly hits 80mph. Controls are sophisticated, having developed over time with almost unlimited R&D funds, but the basic tech driver is classic rigging, but of modern payloads.

      KAP is closely related application, not quite yet as developed as Brown's systems, but with its own latent magical powers (longer distances, higher-altitudes, no-towers, self-powering, etc.). Be sure to ponder Brown's SkyCam systems suspended normally from three kites, or upside-down from the ground, with kite-lift cancelling gravity to tension the string geometry upward.

      In reviewing Brown's career work, AWE R&D taps yet another trove of great prior art. We will take the camera even further someday, all over the sky, by means of rag and string-

      Garrett Brown Camera Inventions - Filmmaker and Inventor - Steadicam Merlin SkyCam FlyCam GoCam SuperFlyCam
       

       

      image
       

       
       
       
       

      Garrett Brown Camera Inventions - Filmmaker and Invent...
      Garrett Brown Camera Inventions Steadicam, Steadicam Merlin, FlyCam, SkyCam, DiveCam, GoCam, MoleCam

      View on www.garrettcam.com
      Preview by Yahoo

       
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14219 From: dave santos Date: 9/4/2014
      Subject: Amazing Snow Kite Swarm
      What an incredible spectacle; the starting line at Ragnarok is further evidence that the kite is transforming snow sports, liberating us from the mountain ski resort-


      Super Punch: Red Bull kite-skiing
      Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14220 From: stephane rousson Date: 9/4/2014
      Subject: Voiliers des Airs, Essai fin Septembre / Sky-sailing Yacht Ready for
      Attachments :

        Bonjour à Tous, Dear All

        Le Voilier des Airs  Aerosail  sera prêt pour son essai  à Nice à partir du 25 sept 2014.( En fonction de la Météo ) 
        Sky-sailing Yacht   Aerosail  will be ready for his test flight in Nice starting  25 sept 2014.

        Journalistes , Photographes de Presse, merci de vous signaler afin que nous puissions vous  prévoir de la place sur les bateaux disponibles.

         Du 15 sept au 20 sept, je serai aux Studios Riviera de Nice pour vérifier et préparer le matériel 

        Objectif du Voilier des Airs : Démontrer un principe de navigation efficace et durable pour un futur mode de transport maritime.

        Nous avons besoin activement de Mécènes, Investisseurs pour développer nos recherches et faire du Voilier des airs l’avenir du transport maritime.

        Toute dotation en matériel est aussi bienvenue.

        Merci à tous les partenaires et institutions qui me permettent de réaliser de nouveau ce vol d’essai.

        A très bientôt pour vous faire partager je l’espère un moment unique au monde..!

        Images intégrées 5Images intégrées 6Images intégrées 4
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14221 From: Joe Faust Date: 9/4/2014
        Subject: Kite power systems in automatic operation
        Kite power systems in automatic operation
        http://youtu.be/DjcJljXGW9I
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14222 From: dave santos Date: 9/4/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation
        Two nice details to note- Wubbo calls for kite-powered rock-fests to popularize AWE, and the Port of Rotterdam land expansion is proposed as a kite power farm.

        Wubbo Lives


        On Thursday, September 4, 2014 4:40 PM, "Joe Faust joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14223 From: dougselsam Date: 9/4/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation
        A couple notes: 
        1) If this system could really put out 20 KW steady-state, I'd love to have one - well except my electric bill is already $300 negative (producing more than using) for 2014, last I checked, with a 10 kW turbine and a 1 kW machine i threw together a couple years ago from parts lying around.  Does anyone think this kite & reel really produces 20 kW steady output?  That could sell for $150,000 if it was reliable.  (a BIG "if" - well not really, there is no "if" - it would not be reliable, not produce 20 kW steady output, not be long-lasting)

        2) This June 2012 video ends saying this will be a market ready product in 2-3 years.  We're now in that 2-3 year window.  Did anyone actually believe they would really have a commercial version in 2-3 years?
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14224 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/4/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation

        He mentioned the asset of Frisian Islands
        Frisian Islands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

         
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14225 From: dave santos Date: 9/5/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation
        Doug,

        No one thinks this system "really produces 20 kW steady output", and it lacks automated launching and landing. A small AWES is not suited to produce "steady" power, especially given normal wind variations and long-cycle reeling. A storage medium is needed. Nor do we a priori expect Delft to be competitive cost-wise against so many competitors in the same market niche (exotic demonstrators).

        The closest to steady AWE power theoretically is a statistical collection of AWES across a large grid, as Cristina Archer modeled around five years ago. In that case,
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14226 From: dougselsam Date: 9/5/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation
        OK so you agree that the statements in the video are false - just checking.
        Not automatic, not 20 kW, not ready in 2-3 years... I'm glad we agree.  :)
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14227 From: dave santos Date: 9/5/2014
        Subject: Urban Aerial Cableways Over La Paz (similarity case)

        We are seeing a market expansion of aerial cableways into developing economies, as a low-cost small-footprint transport technology. La Paz, Bolivia, is leading the way, and students of AWE are following this partial similarity case closely for lessons on how well AWES services might someday operate over dense populations, along the lines Bolonkin and others propose. In rough terms, the general real-world success or failure of the similarity cases suggest how our AWE adoption prospects will pan-out.

        Largest urban cable car soars over 'desperate' commuters of La Paz
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14228 From: dave santos Date: 9/5/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation
        No I don't agree.

        Engineered autonomy is a continuous spectrum*, and the claim here for partial autonomy is valid. The system produces around 20kW on average, but the "steady output" only seems to be your projection. I do not predict they cannot market an "exotic demonstrator" in 2-3 years, as you seem to. Be glad we don't agree, if these views are more correct than what you supposed (for the sake of truth).


        * Basic Autopilot function shown. Complete autonomy would include self-reproduction, for example.


        On Friday, September 5, 2014 9:36 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14229 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/5/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite Power Solutions Ltd
        Status is yet to be known: 
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14230 From: dave santos Date: 9/5/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite Power Solutions Ltd
        Last news (spring) was that CEO Bill Hampton would be traveling in US, and had an interest in meeting with kPower to discuss related AWES approaches and possible collaboration. Bill seems like a very busy guy, with a portfolio of start-up ventures. Maybe Ed knows something more recent.


        On Friday, September 5, 2014 11:31 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14231 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 9/5/2014
        Subject: Water analogue for AWES

        Patent US597553 - Wave-power

        James M. Dyer

        circa 1898
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14232 From: dave santos Date: 9/6/2014
        Subject: Potential-Energy of Airborne-Mass by Height (update and review)
        The AWES intermittent-wind generation problem could almost disappear if we master the inherent energy storage potential of mass raised to a height. When the wind lulls, system mass could descend while maintaining power output, much like the weights that power a cuckoo-clock. Airborne mass is missing from most discussions of a possible mass-storage tech.

        AWES mass at 10km high could last for many hours before depletion. A kilo raised to 100m stores 2.72Whr, which is about 1/2 the charge of a cell-phone. Harvesting cloud water for mass at altitude remains a most synergistic concept, since both energy and clean water (or even cooling ice above summer heat, by going high enough) can be produced. Polymer fog-harvesting mesh is quite light and natural as a kite material.

        Current KiteLab Illwaco experiments with toy kites are testing various ideas for safely running the working-mass up-and-down the kiteline, as a kite-messenger. Endless variations are possible, but a basic goal is to use the working-mass to extend kite flight or generate power-out. which requires a clever rig. We know enough about safety to use water-ballast and provide means for the water to disperse if dropped (like open-topped water bags).

        What forms and uses of airborne-mass potential-energy may eventually take is an open question. If a massive kite aerotecture civilization emerges, the weight of everything rising and lowering together might ideally cancel intermittency (in complex staged cascades of prioritized lift).

        CC 4.x BY SA NC
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14233 From: dave santos Date: 9/6/2014
        Subject: Fog Harvesting inspired by kites

        Interesting convergence of kite dense-array thinking between this fog harvesting (with kites) design study and AWES theory-

        Fog Harvesting Project
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14234 From: dougselsam Date: 9/7/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation
        "The system produces around 20kW on average"
        ***Where do you get that information?
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14235 From: dougselsam Date: 9/7/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite Power Solutions Ltd
        "Wind Energy but Cheaper" - OK there's your definition of AWE, for the incurably confused among us, except, is this statement accurate?  Do these guys have cheaper wind energy? Are they testing at Fukushima?  Are they powering a rock concert?  (have they bought a guitar amp?) ;)

        Do they have anything new and different, better than the rest?  Is their basic concept even viable or promising, to produce cheaper wind energy?  One must keep in mind the endless sea of untruths in wind energy - most wind energy "innovations" amount to mere wishful thinking in the form of inaccurate statements.   Almost 100%.
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14236 From: dougselsam Date: 9/7/2014
        Subject: Re: Fog Drip Harvesting inspired by kites
        Nice work for capturing fog.  Here in the Cajon Pass of California, where desert meets mountains, the vegetation that survives harvests fog.  The points on oak leaves serve to allow drips to drip off by gravity, and the scrub oaks form little wet circles in the dirt below, when it is foggy in the pass.

        Redwood trees and many ecosystems rely on "fog drip":
        Fog drip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

         
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14237 From: dave santos Date: 9/7/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite power systems in automatic operation
        The Springer AWE book is the best single source of published average power data, including TUDelft. In any case, its well known that no long-cycle reeling AWES produces steady power-out (without buffering), and that the average power-out reflects power deficit during the retract phase, with surge peaks during generation. All WECS ratings are averages based on simplifying assumptions (like rated windspeed).


        On Sunday, September 7, 2014 6:38 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14238 From: dave santos Date: 9/7/2014
        Subject: Re: Kite Power Solutions Ltd
        Doug,

        "Cheaper" is an obvious aspirational claim, just like your years of ST claims. What sets this team apart is its marine winch engineering depth and Allister's autonomous systems mojo. Watch AWE teams merge on the basis of complimentary skills and resources,

        daveS


        On Sunday, September 7, 2014 7:15 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
        Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 14239 From: Baptiste Labat Date: 9/7/2014
        Subject: Fwd: [free-kitesim] ANNOUNCE: Fully working version of 4-point kite-
        For your information, mostly those interested by time domain simulation.

        I don't have time right now to give it a try, but any feedback welcome!

        ++
        Baptiste
        ---------- Forwarded message ----------
        From: Uwe Fechner <uwe.fechner.msc@gmail.com

        --
        You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Free KiteSim" group.
        To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to free-kitesim+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
        For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.