Thank you very much for your wish for Wind Power Generation over Ocean and Seawater Electrolysis.

I have posted Cost Benefit Analysis for Seawater Electrolysis for Fighting Weather Change briefly om my Korean blog
http://blog.naver.com/joinckim/110083088602,

because I could not join this group with the problem of CAPTCHA image.

I hope we can work together in very near future.
I belive that it will not be longer than two years.

I am sorry for not joining this group. I have tried too many times to join this group, but my computer soes not show me CAPTCAHA image.
Anybody can download the pdf file "Wind Power Generation..." of Energy journal from my blog--
and I will try to upload the for Methanol Synthesis and Magnesium refinement and also the Application for Virgin Earth Challeng and Cost Benefit Analysis of High Altitude Wind Power Generationover Ocean.
Seawater electrolysis makes more economic (maybe 50 times more at mimimum, I did not claculated yet but I feel maybe 100 times more) than pure water electrolysis.

Here is wright address

http://blog.naver.com/joinckim/110083088602

I am sorry for making inconvenience, I don't have experience on Yahoo group.

Happily Dr. Kim JongChul has shared with us

AIAA paper personally shared with AWE friends here:  

Wind Power Generation With a Parawing on Ships, a Proposal
by Jong Chul Kim, Korea Aerospace Research Institute
and Chul Park, Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology Daejeon, Korea. 
 
Same link has been added to   http://www.energykitesystems.net/JongChulKim/index.html

 

   DaveS,
 
           We found that by cooling the wind hydroxy conversion cell water  as close to the freezing point we were able to get the biggest bang for the buck, as (and if) the water heated up the potential explosive power per given volume of gas was deminished.
 
                                                                                        Dan'l

---

To: airbornewindenergy@yahoogroups.com
From: santos137@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:37:00 -0700
Subject: [AWECS] High Temperature Electrolysis (HTE) & Cheap Wind Power

 

Notice: An easy password is set for the PDF document. Avoid spacemar and be sure lowercase letters are used. Type in lowercase:
awe

...to open the document. Click title.  

Provisional Patent Application of
David D. Lang
For
WIND DRIVEN HYDROELECTRIC POWER GENERATOR 

 

If  for some reason the text link is disconnected, place the following URL in browser:

http://www.energykitesystems.net/DaveLang/HyTr.pdf

Use the password:          awe
in lowercase and avoid use of spacebar.

A free reader for Adobe  PDF documents is available. You proably have the Reader in your computer or library. If not: http://get.adobe.com/reader/

Detail discussion on points and claims are invited in group or sent to Notes@EnergyKiteSystems.net

Thanks, DaveL,  for permit to publish your document in EnergyKiteSystems.net and AirborneWindEnergy  group.

JoeF

 

Heavy on talk, light on results, pix, working machines, power curves, etc. Sounds like another road leading to Superturbine technology, to me. Whatever they come up with - de-emphasizing control systems for stable configurations - like perhaps attaching "kites" at a central point to form a "rotor" (gee?ya?think?) (sorry to get so far ahead by introducing a now-standard 2000-year-old concept), keeping the heavy gen on the ground, and, oh, if one level works, more levels would be better, hence, Superturbine(R). All roads will lead there eventually.
:)
Doug Selsam
http://www.USWINDLABS.com
Question: How many PhD's does it take to ignore Superturbine(R)?
Answer: All of them.

That's a great idea, and there are many windfarms that are thirsting for your new energy storage technology. Additionally if anyone can come up with an energy storage technology that is more cost-effective than lead-acid batteries, they can write their own ticket, as the whole grid could be entirely different with such storage included. For example there are huge profits available NOW buying cheap electricity from idling nuke plants etc., at night, and reselling the power in the day for many times the price.
One thing you might want to check that I've noticed as almost an epidemic in new technologies:
You get caught up in endless possibilities/variations/complications rather than ever developing a simple actual working system. Without a reliable high altituide wind, energy system what is the use of adding more complication? At some point every new level of complication becomes just one more reason to NOT be able to get anything built but rather blog the days away while never developing anything that actually works.
Hypothetical-land - a wonderful place. But it is limited to making hypothetical power which cannot be used. It may be difficult to revolutionize both wind energy AND energy storage simultaneously, especially through mere blogging. Best to disconnect the computer and build something. Sometimes I wonder about the mixed efffect of the web. The communication is great but if it carries the illusion that talk replaces action, that is a bad effect on our creativity.
So all in all I would say pick a lane and if you have an answer in energy storage technology, that would easily be more than a full-time job in itself.
Doug Selsam
USWINDLABS.com

Kite-energy  village entrepreneurs to light parts of world:
Substitute for "pedaling" the phrase "flying an AWECS" to serve neighbors.

The moment of first glance sometimes brings a gem of value,
sometimes not.   The following two glances of enthusiasm
would not get posted if I passed away in an hour and thus
unable to develop the glance.  So, I risk sharing the two
glances that may or may not be inventive, but for the moment
seem to have a kernel of something that someone might want
to explore (I hope I will be here tomorrow to invest on the
development of these two sparks):

Step-tall-launch method: Pedal a kite left and right and left and right etc.  between two pulleys while the kite climbs higher in each cycle between  the pulleys that spread further apart also. Keep letting out line at each cycle until the kite is in higher winds enough to sustain the kite. Then operate the system as an effective AWECS.  The details of the let-out mechanism have not been given attention yet.   Pedal in insufficient wind until kite reaches working winds; then convert to AWECS for gains.

 

Other:
Spread-line center pulls up a third line when the two kites are spread, one left and one right. Then guide the two spread kites back to center which lets the spring-loaded central line back down. The sprag clutch (driven by the central line) operates during the spread and the release.  The two kites stay flying: spread, center, spread, center, spread, center, etc. The kites have their main tether that does not get let out or in. This is not a reeling method of kite tether as is a common AWECS method.    I have not seen this method. Note how a lateral line of many kites could be worked in a kind of peristalic rhythm with most kites (not the far left or the far right kite) operating to release as it goes to relative center with one of its adjacent neighbors while relative to the other adjacent neighbor kite is spreading (and thus lifting central down lines).

If there is any novelty in these two glances, I offer such into public domain without need for reference.     CoopIP          And if such glances hold prior art, then I hope to be around past this hour to uncover and credit those who have come before this moment with their findings and instructions.  

 

 

 

IEE News Alert 36

NEWS ALERT 36
23 March 2010
 
For the attention of:
Mr John Oyebanji Hardensoft International Limited

 The 2010 IEE Call for Proposals is open!
The 2010 call for proposals under the Intelligent Energy – Europe programme is open. With some € 56 million available for actions in the area of energy efficiency, renewable energy and energy-efficient transport, this may be the opportunity to have your next European project funded. Grants awarded under this scheme may cover up to 75% of the eligible project costs.
Deadline for submission is 24th June, 17:00 local Brussels ' time.
Then take the time to go through the call documentation on our website and remember:  this is a highly competitive process, so only the best proposals will succeed! http://ec.europa.eu/energy/intelligent/call_for_proposals/index_en.htm  
 
Your EACI team

A version with a corrected link has been made in the file.

If you downloaded the prior file to your computer, please consider replaced that with the current version with the corrected link. Thank you, for your moment on this matter.

The current version is up and flying:
 
  http://www.energykitesystems.net/DaveLang/HyTr.pdf

Well, (a deep subject ... Mom used to say to me), a second glance at the second spark has advanced my awareness of part of the source of the spark

Here is my second sharing before such might be lost to a passing:

Spread of two coupled kites pulls center of central bridged-held line; bring the coupled kites toward each other to release downwardly the center of central bridged-held line; the central-bridge-held line pulls and releases in cycles to drive sprag-clutched  ground gen. The working line could be springed tensed or worked from another third spreading kite that is timed rightly. This method has not been demonstrated yet.  Inspiration came from looking upside down at a working paravane scene of couple kites and considering the work being done on the object that bridges or couples the two spreading paravanes. The object tensed by the spreading action can be many things like a fish net or ... a line to a buoy that gets pulled down; at relaxation of the spread action, the buoy gets let back up; such action could drive a generator on that central buoyed line; the buoyancy acts as a spring return of the buoy with tautness maintained. Well, and AWECS family of scenes may be designed with this outline as a skeleton of the method.   JpF March 2010.     M1389

The mentioned root image that came my way to help seed the above:

 
Notice that in the seed scene there is no third up-going line, but rather the work being done
by the spreading paravanes (water kites) is a rugged opening of a fishing net object.

Perhaps others will draw and post. Perhaps tomorrow I'll have a drawing of a unit situation
for this baking AWECS system; perhaps followed by the lateral line of multiple units for a
kind of wavy sinusoidal broad fence that works wide sweep with hardly any quiet moments
of energy production for the groundGens or pumps.   All are invited to the evolution party.

JoeF  for CoopIP for any possible novelty herein, that is: if new, then such is placed in public domain
without need for reference. However, it is still a question as to whether somone earlier has brought
forth the method family.

 

 

In-the-wing turbines on generator kite system:

Full patent application is held in EPO and also here in Chinese: http://www.energykitesystems.net/PatentsAWE/CN101368545A.pdf

Jinlun Huang   and  Huang Jinlun

 Drawings colorized by AWEIA's JpF:

Bibliographic data

Description

Claims

Mosaics

Original document

INPADOC legal status

	Publication number: CN101368545 (A) Publication date: 2009-02-18 Inventor(s): JINLUN HUANG [CN] + (HUANG JINLUN) Applicant(s): JINLUN HUANG [CN] + (HUANG JINLUN) Classification:   - international: F03D9/00; F03D5/00; F03D9/00; F03D5/00 - European: Application number: CN20081121166 20081004  Priority number(s): CN20081121166 20081004     View INPADOC patent family   View list of citing documents   Abstract of CN 101368545  (A)  Disclosed is an integrated wing generator kite; the composite fiber materials are extruded and drawn to from the box girder shaped profiles illustrated in graphs A, B,C,D,E and F; the box girder shaped profiles are threaded through a wing rib G which is used as the diversion plate to integrate the wing shape; five slots S are formed among the integrated box girder profiles; five H-type wind power generator sets are arranged on the upper end and the lower end of the S. a white arrow represents the rotation direction of the wind wheel generator sets; a black arrow represents the airflow direction. The slot airflow improves the action central angle of the wind power on the wind wheel and improves the power. A centipede-shaped kite can be assembled by a plurality sets of the integrated wing generators to generate power in high altitude and supply power for the ground; meanwhile, the centipede-shaped kite also has the effects of partially shielding the sunlight and reducing the earth temperature rising. Data supplied from the espacenet database — Worldwide

Full patent application data HERE. 

Request from our group members:  English translation of the patent application.

 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/visualscience/2010/03/30/winging-it-for-alternative-energy-in-california-cow-patches/

Ladder truck. Good idea.

- Dimitri

AMAZING . . . that Makani is now using kites/parafoils that fly in a circle pulling a cable . . . . where in heaven's name did they get an idea like that????
 
 
Did they have a spy visit Kitelab?
 
 
Harry
 

---

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: dimitri.cherny@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 21:22:19 +0000
Subject: [AWECS] Makani Test Photo

 

Next thing you know, their new invention of tri-tether crank system should be making an appearance.
-brooks

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/podcast/2010/03/small-wind-technologies-an-evolution-or-revolution

Very cool.

- Dimitri

Nice to see someone actually running something. Do these kites have onborad generators or are we still "just flying kites"? Now add a generator at the center and a few more layers of kite circles and you are back at Superturbine(R) where all roads lead. At this diameter they will also need a gearbox or an expensive permanent magnet alternator with many poles like the next generation of G.E. big turbines.
I was wondering how long it would take before someone noticed they could replace a rotor blade set with kites going in a circle. This would be 2000-year-old reverse engineering.

To find many similar pix,
1) go to google
2) click on "images"
3) type: windmill greek islands

You'll see many examples of this early wind turbine design wherein a ring of kites travels in a circle. This was before anyone realized that removing the sails and carving the supporting sticks into slender blades would work even better, traveling faster, gathering more power, using less material to last longer!

Here are some pictures of similar machines in the same 2000-year-old configuration:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/6546390/2/istockphoto_6546390-white-windmills-greek-islands.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/locations-and-travel/holidays/6546390-white-windmills-greek-islands.php%3Fid%3D6546390&usg=__6Yqol-rIyVB8ZbVtak7TeGvx37w=&h=380&w=249&sz=44&hl=en&start=7&sig2=ASJOSUDDmQKiQwwZyM10cw&itbs=1&tbnid=PxfDA6vBYt40GM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=81&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwindmill%2Bgreek%2Bislands%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=ywO2S8u0FI_mtgO6otGCAw

http://www.wowiwe.net/~bslator/photo-album/greece/images/I-Paros/paros-windmill.jpg

http://www.cairnsunlimited.com/thesavagefiles/images/grkarpathos.JPG

Doug Selsam
http://www.USWINDLABS.com
~<brawk!

There is certainly application for wind energy technology that can drive water pumps and push water to higher elevation during the off-peak periods. It is more expensive to use wind to generate electric power and use electric motors to drive the water pumps.
 
 
Harry
 

---

To: airbornewindenergy@yahoogroups.com
From: santos137@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 15:47:16 -0700
Subject: [AWECS] Piston Pump Tripod

 

Given that the real need is for electricity on demand, it makes sense to focus on a two-stage generating system, with wind storing energy.  There will be times when a hydro storage facility has a steady water level, and power is lost to the dual conversion, but  those would be rare coincidences.  Overall efficiency would be higher, and we'd be the darlings of the grid managers.

Bob Stuart

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AirborneWindEnergy
group.

File : /BatteriesAloftRotated/Production
Uploaded by : joe_f_90032 <joefaust333@gmail.com Description : Charge batteries aloft; rotate aloft batteries to be charged

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AirborneWindEnergy/files/BatteriesAloftRotated/Production

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

joe_f_90032 <joefaust333@gmail.com

"Charging Batteries Aloft" for cell phone or laptop is a good way for AWECS and I am testing some small brushless and brushed motors as fly generators and some propellers with good and bad results because of lower (sometimes no power because of initial electronic management) output as generator than as motor.Specific (lighter) brushless generator with diode bridge towards light battery and (wind turbine,not propulsion) small propeller will be needed,excepted for the case of luck to found really reversible motor and adapted propeller.

PierreB

Pierre,   There are two kinds of cheap small generators KiteLab has used. A bicycle generator, with a rectifier diode & anti-ripple capacitor added, will turn at its rated voltage/current with a high rpm hand-carved foam/tape turbine-   http://www.energykitesystems.net/DaveSantos/WSIKF2009Augustflygen.jpg   There are many hand cranked cell phone generators with a step-up gear that even a crude "pinwheel" will turn fast enough. I bought several on sale for $5US each. They include a light, radio, & USB power socket. Brush motors are fine for our cheap demos or early mass-production models.   I forgot to mention the basic safety warning, that no dropped object should be capable of serious injury, use padding & reserve chute as needed. An upcoming note will explore use of soaring & docking electric gliders for AWE. The problematic laddermill may someday succeed as a moving docking loop for glider fleets.   ds   coopip

There has been speculation & hints that Joby Energy & Google would cozy up in the quest for utility-scale flygen AWE, as the job proved way too ambitious for Goggle's initial pick of Makani Power. Google needs a face-saving path forward & Joby is not so rich as to be able to succeed in creating a new large scale aviation on its initial 50 million.   The latest hint of corporate footsie is co-sponsorship of a cool demonstration of a cart able to sail directly downwind faster that the wind (DDWFTTW). This sort of prop/turbine tech is closely related to airborne wind turbine tech-   www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDzWh9J1dk4&feature=channel   quote from page-

DDWFTTW  Directly Down Wind Faster Than The Wind
question more carefully defined for definitive answering
is apparently being sponsored by Joby Energy and Google:

Late 1960s seminal paper by Andrew Bauer:
 Faster Than The Wind

http://www.energykitesystems.net/images/nonAWE/JobyGoogle.jpg 
Screen print from this page on April 8, 2010:
http://www.fasterthanthewind.org/2009_10_03_archive.html

Their objective and definitions:

"Team Objective: To build a wind powered vehicle which can travel directly downwind, faster than the wind, powered only by the wind, steady state.

Definitions:
Directly downwind: Vehicle track within +/- 5 degrees of average wind direction.
Faster than the wind: We intend to demonstrate a clear and decisive case -- 1.25x wind speed or more.
Powered only by the wind: Other than the wind blowing during the actual runs, no external source of power of any sort will be utilized.
Steady State: No storage of wind energy before runs. No remote energy capture -- all wind capturing devices must travel with vehicle the entire time"

COMMENTARY:

Their steady state definition seems to allow storing wind energy after run starts. At that, just keep some braking going for an hour with slow roll; store wind energy during that time and then as down wind speed begins to match the downwind speed, then release the stored energy for high acceleration to a speed that is many times the wind speed.    What have I missed?  With such means, it should be easy to go directly downwind on a run to the tune of 10x the downwind speed.   Such case is not equivalent to a case where such wind energy storing during a run is not allowed.  Given a long enough run, one might be able to store enough wind energy after the run begins in order  fold up the prop at some point and shoot out at Mach 1 or more.        

The "directly downwind" tolerance seems to allow tacking up to 5 degree either side of the downwind.   Hmmmm.  

The definitions do not seem to bring in racing a downwinding balloon float; but rather, it seems the definitions allow win if at any part of the run there is a segment of travel that is their objective of 1.25x wind speed or more; the balloon might be way far ahead while a small segment of travel reaches objective.

  JpF

There may be something I'm missing here but I think you're trying to defy the basic laws of thermodynamics

Well said, Joe.  Why can't whoever sold this to Google sell more promising projects instead?  <sigh
Bob Stuart

Google.org contacted us a couple years ago after the Popular Science Invention of the Year 2008 for Sky Serpent. The contact was Andrew Greenblatt if I recall the name correctly.

They told us they were trying to decide whether to fund our company or just offer us a grant. Since then, we have not heard from Google again, but are open to it. I just ponied up the dough for our patents to issue in all countries of the European Union.

Here's a link to a YouTube video we took of a small 5-rotor machine the other day, with meters showing 4000 watts+ power output (voltage on the left and current on the right meter):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20S5Gu-ZbfI

Thanks
Doug Selsam
http://www.USWINDLABS.com

Seems a bit silly to me. Of course one could store sufficient energy while moving in any direction that allows energy capture, or better yet, while stationary, to then allow one to then exceed any given wind speed. I don't even understand what is in question really. No physical laws are broken by storing energy then using it, so it is merely an academic exercise. It seems that people pursuing green energy are often sidetracked into perpetual-motion-flavored scenarios. Why not just store wind turbine energy while stationary (parked), then use the stored energy to travel forward in whatever direction you want, regardless of wind direction, depending on your transportation needs? So you park your vehicle, store energy from its turbine, the race ahead of where the wind would have been. Can you do it? That depends mainly on how big your turbine is. Reminds me of a saying in carpentry: "All you gotta do is be smarter than the board". In this case all you gotta do is drive faster than some arbitrary wind speed in an electric vehicle, power it with wind, and then carry the turbine with you on the trip - not such a big deal really. Of course the real miracle would be if someone could achieve wind-powered downwind travel in a steady-state, which this clearly is not and is only a fake substitute for - substituting words for reality, like people in a lotus position claiming to levitate momentarily by leaping up into the air in their lotus position. No they aren't levitating any more than you can fly by pulling upward on your shoelaces, but people will never stop trying perpetual motion schemes.

Here are pix of the USWINDLABS "inside-out wind tunnel" test vehicle in both stationary and traveling modes with turbines spinning:

http://www.speakerfactory.net/TURBINES/INNOVATIONS/7ROT-7FOOT-2GEN/PAGES/vantestintwincroppedth.jpg

http://www.speakerfactory.net/TURBINES/INNOVATIONS/7ROT-7FOOT-2GEN/PAGES/dougvansmogth.jpg

Or separate the windmill and the car and use windpower from a separate turbine to charge the batteries of an electric vehicle... No wait, just power the grid with your windmill and let people charge their cars. Hey has anyone thought of that yet? Should I explain that I am joking here?
;)
Doug Selsam
http://www.USWINDLABS.com

Well,  they do have the gauntlet down, for "steady state" - no storage during the run.  See section 5 at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_faster_than_the_wind  As it says, the  entry is still in dispute.

Bob Stuart

-------- Original Message --------

Subject:	Re: [AWECS] Re: Joby & Google moving toward collaboration?
Date:	Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:36:59 -0600
From:	Bob Stuart <bobstuart@sasktel.net
To:	AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

Well said, Joe.  Why can't whoever sold this to Google sell more promising projects instead?  <sigh
Bob Stuart

JpF

Electric Aircraft Symposium IV

Electric Aircraft

2010 EAS

2009 EAS Archive

2008 EAS Archive

2007 EAS Archive

EAS IV 2010 Program:

Preliminary Program: 5 minutes of Q&A per speaker; 20 min coffee; 50 min box lunch; Theme Dinners on site 4/23/10.

Friday April 23

• 07:30 Badge and Program pickup
• 08:00 Opening Remarks, Announcements, Thank you's, CAFE Board
• 08:05 KEYNOTE: Jonathan Trent: Algal Bio-fuels: the OMEGA Project.
• 08:50 Dean Sigler: The Past as Prologue
• 09:10 Bill Dube, KillaCylcle: Lightweight High-power Battery Pack Design: Safe, Fault-tolerant, and Crash-resistant. Lessons Learned from Electric Drag Racing.
• 09:30 Eva Hakansson, Speed Record Electric Motorcycle
• 09:45 Calin Gologan, PC Aero, Germany: Electric Aircraft as Design Challenge – Present and Future
• 10:10 Coffee Break until 10:30
• 10:30 Geoffrey Long, Launchpoint Technologies: A high power density, high efficiency axial flux Halbach array motor/generator
• 10:55 Brien Seeley, CAFE Foundation: How and Why Electric Aircraft Should Transform Transportation
• 11:40 Dr. Key Dismukes, NASA Ames, Chief Scientist for Human Factors: Improving GA Safety - Not Just a Matter of Technology
  
• 12:05 Lunch until 13:00
• 13:00 TBD
• 13:25 Dr. Charlotte Whitfield, NASA Langley: Propeller Noise Reduction
• 13:55 Mark Moore, NASA Langley: Enabling Efficient Small VTOL Aircraft Through Electric Propulsion
• 14:20 JoeBen Bevirt: VTOL Electrics
• 14:55 Coffee Break until 15:15
• 15:15 KEYNOTE: Dr. Jaephil Cho, South Korea: High Density Electrode Materials with 1 and 3D Structures for Li-ion Cells
• 16:45 Eric Darcy, NASA JSC and NREL, Advanced Mitigating Measures for Preventing Catastrophic Li-ion Cell Internal Shorts
• 17:10 Zach Hoisington, Boeing Research & Technology: Airliners with Electric Propulsion
• 17:30 Adjourn, prepare for Theme Dinners
• 18:30 No-host cocktails in Foyer adjacent to Ballroom
• 19:15 Theme Dinners:
  (Multiple 4 minute open-topic presentations
  from attendees at each dinner)
  • Electrics: Batteries/Solar/Motors/Controller
  • Hybrids/Bio-fuel/Hydrogen
  • Aero/Props/Airframes
    

Saturday April 24

• 7:20 AM Continental Breakfast
• 08:00 Announcements
• 08:05 Michael Friend, Seattle: A Single Seat Electric Motorglider With a "Range Extender" Pod
• 08:25 KEYNOTE: Tyler MacCready, Aerovironment: Solar Wings
• 08:55 Josef Kallo, Germany: Fuel cell Systems for Aircraft Applications: Hyfish, Antares DLR H2, ATRA
• 09:20 Andrew Frank, UC Davis / Greg Stevenson, GSE engines: Hybrid Drives, Long Range Electric/Bio-Diesel Aircraft
• 09:55 Sebastian Thrun, Chair, Dept. of Artificial Intelligence, Stanford & Dr. Nicholas Roy, M.I.T. : Advancing Autonomous Vehicles
• 10:15 Coffee Break
• 10:35 John W. McGinnis, Synergy: Aerodynamic Efficiency Near the Gabrielli - von Karman Limit
• 11:00 Joe Armstrong, Ascent Solar: Solar PV Technologies
• 11:20 Corey Ipollito, Paul Espinosa, Al Weston, NASA Ames, Swift UAS: A research platform for green aviation at NASA Ames Research Center
• 11:35 Steve Morris, MLB: Development and Flight Test of an Electric Powered SWIFT Ultralight Aircraft
• 11:50 Dr. Ajay Misra, Chief, Structures and Materials Division, NASA Glenn reserach Center: Saving Weight: Nano-structural and Other High Strength Material Technologies
• 12:15 Adjourn for Saturday lunch and winery tours

Every summer world aviation culture wings its way en-masse to Oshkosh, Wisconsin for the fly-in hosted by the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA). Around 10,000 aircraft of every description show up, many one-of-a-kind prototypes, freaks, & rarities. Planes fill the air like gnats over a feast of thousands of acres of camping-out under wings, a vast fair of exotic exhibits, free workshops, & amazing people.   This year EAA is especially inviting innovators and developers of electric aircraft to participate in forums and presentations-

Here is one lab at the Joby Energy

environs:

http://www.jobyenergy.com/tech/visit

Re:  Directly Downwind Faster than the Wind.
Dang, I wish people would put their theory in a more accessable location when it outrages common sense.  On another forum where this came up, I found the wikipedia article on faster than the wind.  Ice boats do manage to gybe downwind faster than the wind,  even allowing for the extra distance traveled. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailing_faster_than_the_wind
I'm still working on the math model,  but it seems that this tricky car may be geared so that the wheels always resist motion, but the prop pulls it downwind using that torque. 

Bob  Stuart