Jeffrey Sgroi, part owner, engineer: "Our system is definitely more
efficient than any other system in this market”

That is a tall statement. : )

Keep open that pumping AWES may occur with more than one line. Perhaps
two or more lines.
~ JoeF

For one to be comprehensively aware of the art in public domain and in
protected domain is no easy doing. What may be missed in a
non-comprehensive survey could be a seed or seeds that may win the day
for some niche market. Cursory over-confident glances may miss even
more fertile matter. Missed gems regularly surface whenever I study
AWES matters.
~ JoeF

One of my camps favors small kytoon that has self-hydrogen renewal
while aloft to mend leaks and losses from over-pressure releases. Such
would ever be up except when told to deflate by emergency downing
signals. Such would trigger launching cascades. CC 4.0 BY NC SA
~ JoeF


On 7/24/14, dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]
<AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

I could tell from just the name VentAir, that this is nothing.  Typical Crackpot name.  This site has an infinitely-high bragging/evidence ratio.  Solving ALL problems, showing NO evidence.  Don't hold your breath... :)  They will quietly go away, like all the rest.

Hey Dave S., I thought you and your ilk were going to show the world how to do AWE.  What's the matter now?

Really?  The kite-flyers are leading the way?  Where's your evidence?  Where are the power curves?  Where's a working system?  Who is generating economical power, or generating consistent power at any cost?  Where does your research fit in?  How are you in charge of everything? 

"The soft ST option is of comparable interest, and I have also discussed its torque limiting factors. A soft driveshaft as you disclose in your patent drawings would have high line drag by transmitting torque at the wingtips. and require tremendous pre-tensioning to keep its tube geometry from collapsing and hockling. There are also practical challenges of launching and landing any kite stack, which do get worse scaling up."

Pertinent analysis. I agree. A too strong axial force torque is needed for pre-tensioning.The kite-rotor pulls mainly the generator instead of transmitting torque. RodR could measure the torque on the wheel of his last machine and define some parameters: diameter of the wheel compared with diameter of kite-rotor.The more the diameter of wheel is low, the less torque is transmitted. If the diameter of wheel is nothing the kite-rotor only pulls,not transmitting torque. If the diameter of wheel is something like the diameter of kite-rotor, the transmission of torque is better but probably not quite efficient (huge pre-tensioning being needed), that with the problems of a huge directional rim generator.  

 

PierreB

Dave S.stop trying to be a great writer.  You're unlikely to "write" your way to a working system, especially when nearly everything you write is diametrically opposed to reality.  No amount of big words, or unusual adjectives, will make the slightest difference.  You're not the first hyper-insistent wind-idiot to attempt a substitution of vocabulary for knowledge.  There's a huge difference between a writer and an engineer.   You are full of hot air.  This Ventair is obviously another kite-flyer, most likely a kite-reeler, certainly with no experience in wind energy, probably no experience in energy, period, and, I would guess, no experience even flying kites.  Oh well, more nothingness.  Can you thay "Profethor Crackpot"?

Geez I hope he does OK on Shark Tank, after all, the world in 2014 has trouble starting fires, right?  I can hear the sharks now: "Very limited target market - I'm out."

Apparently, you believe everything they write, with nothing to back it up.  One more hero for you to worship, one more shrine for you to construct.  You are a complete sucker  - a sucker's sucker, with no internal factual gatekeeper, and no sense of healthy skepticism.  At this point I can confidently say, you will fall for anything, defend a pile of dogshit as the next energy answer, as long as someone suggests it to your feeble excuse for a mind. 

The power of suggestion:  Some idiot makes a website that merely claims they have the answer to AWE, offering absolutely NOTHING to back it up, and you are already defending them.  What a ding-dong.  Here's the next image for you: Professor Crackpot, with the dirty eyeglasses, polka-dot bowtie, and beard, talking like Daffy Duck, using a laser-pointer to explain how a pile of dogshit is actually the world's most advanced AWE system.  Apply that exact image to almost every (attempted) system you have seen yet, and you will be accurate.  Or apply it to any and all of your "experiments" and 2-second videos.  Or just get some dogshit and make your next video.  I need to get a new dog.  If I had a dog, I'd have competitive AWE systems all over the yard.
:)

More hero-worship.  There's no evidence that any of these heroes you cite have done anything to advance AWE.  How can I say that?  There IS NO AWE.  Until a useful system emerges, it is impossible to cite such people as pioneering that hypothetical system.  Reason?  You don't know what characteristics said system will (would) have.  What if a parafoil is not used?  Then that hero's role would turn out to be merely one more Dave S. lie.  Same with the rest of the heroes you cite.

Simple truths like this seem to elude you, revealing your willingness to remain mired in 100% fantasy.  Really, what you do is sit there and lie, all day long.  Lie after lie after lie.  An internet poster who just sits there telling lie after lie, followed by threat after threat against anyone who would dare to question the lies of the wannabe "Nostradamus of Airborne Wind Energy".  Remember when you were threatening to have your relative who works for the FBI "profile" everyone who disagreed with you online?  Notice how everyone was shaking in their boots?  Was that an attempt to prove for all time that you're completely insane?  How's that flying pile of dogshit coming along?

"No one but you is unprofessionally rushing to judgement about Edmund's undisclosed concept" - that's because I'm the only one who has a clue. :) I really CAN tell just by the name...  Certainly I can tell by the (lack of a) website.  I've only seen similar claims 1000 times.  (yawn)  You don't understand, this is Groundhog Day.  Watch the movie and maybe you will "get it".

I'd go a step further: Forget what "outsiders" will think of Dave S.' writings, Dave S. IS an "outsider".  (Notwithstanding his daily, empty attempts at Nostradamus-like pronouncements.)  Mere declaration of onesself as an insider (Or in Dave S.' case, THE insider) does not MAKE on an insider.  Am I an insider to skydiving because I have thought of skydiving?  Is one a "rock star" or "music insider" because they can't play a note, but have an old guitar in their closet?  Everyone who doesn't have an economically-viable working AWE system is an outsider.  So who is an "insider"?  Is John O an "insider"?  Is Joe F. an "insider"?  Is Wayne what's-his-name an insider?  oh yeah Germy awards - German.  Is he?  If someone is an "insider", WHAT are they "inside" of?  Failure?  "Yeah  I'm an AWE insider because I can't get anything to work."  Or how 'bout "I'm an AWE insider because I fly kites, and Dave S. has declared that people like me will pioneer the emerging industry."  Anyway John, trying to get Dave S. to make sense is a losing battle.  "You can't push a rope."  I would not spend too much time trying.  Your time might be better spent trying to get a pumpkin to taste like a tomato.  :)

Have you managed to see any of the test videos yet Pierre?

They're on YouTube
http://youtu.be/t4cebOOEP4w?list=UU2eAHVBBCoO19xBuGOY73Zw

Roderick Read
15a Aiginish
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB
kitepowercoop.org

Rod,

Please can you measure the torque of the wheel using de Prony Brake method, then deduce the power by multiplying it by radius velocity, then compare the result with the possible power of used kites (for example on the basis of calculation for reel-in/out)?

 

 

PierreB

 

My next step when I get home in a fortnight is adding a very simple gear to a generator.

All diameters, ratios and  parameters are open for your or any one elses optimisation

Thanks

Roderick Read
15a Aiginish
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB
kitepowercoop.org

"aggressive and uncompromising in delivering RAD (Rapid AWE Deployment)" *** How many years must go by before it is called SAD (Slow AWE Deployment)?  What about NAD (nonexistent AWE Deployment)? or MAD (meaningless AWE deployment)? or IAD (Ineffective AWE Deployment)? or WAD (Wannabe AWE Deployment)?  or FAD (Failed AWE Deployment)or back to SAD (Stupid AWE Deployment) or SAAD (Silly Attempt at AWE Deployment) or wait, ESAD (Excruciatingly Slow AWE Deployment) or IAAD (Ignorant Attempt at AWE Deployment)?
By the way, I think the whole idea of one acronym embedded within another is somewhat lame.  If AWE were in common usage it might be one thing, but AWE is already a new acronym, so burying the WE part in another acronym seems premature.  Then again, it shows the mindset of the author:  He wishes to conveniently forget about "wind energy", since that would force him to be taking power curves and comparing his work to existing W.E. (wind energy) systems.  Let's just pretend this is all new so we can remain in a fantasy world forever!

Include the progress of the kite-flyer company Minesto with there
paravane flygens.
~ JoeF

On 7/25/14, dave santos santos137@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]
<AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com

Doug,
Your text indicates to me that your notion of what AWE is
... is very different from what AWE is. Following your text, it
seems like you do not know that Jalbert's ram-air parafoil kite,
in itself, when flying is a form of airborne wind energy. It seems
as though you have missed most all of the AWE technology.
To help readers, I invite you to give your definition of AWE,
so that your definition may be compared with the flow of AWE
matters that has been occurring for centuries. Thanks.
DaveS has hundreds of working AWES occurrences recorded.

If what DaveS accomplishes does not fit your personal definition of
AWE matters,
then such will become simply clear and the matter need not be
nagged in the personal-attack manner that is becoming onerous.
DaveS shows momentum to continue advances AWES and AWE matters,
but perhaps not to fit your personal definition of AWE (we wait to
study your definition to see if anyone is doing actions that fit your
definition of AWE.

~ JoeF

JoeF,

 

"...Jalbert's ram-air parafoil kite,
in itself, when flying is a form of airborne wind energy"

New definitions of "airborne wind energy" has been discussed on some previous topic. AWEForum works a little like a cat catching its tail.

Such redefinitions are the better mean to mask the likely failure of AWE to generate wind energy like HAWT do. We should change the main targets and go towards systems where both no mechanical action on ground and electric transmission by cable is required. For example going towards AWES for meteorological use where instruments are fed by a turbine aloft.

 

PierreB

DaveS,


"...your negative view...". No, I put some possible targets (meteorological use for example) instead ruminating dreams year after year.  Note soft blades or kites are not specific in AWES:concerning HAWT one can replace rigid blades with soft blades _ making it a badder rotor _ being able to scale-up without undergoing cube law. The main difference is tether (loss of power due to lift, huge space used, and no radical solutions) vs tower (mass, but possibility to reduce it). And while "vertical" (mass, power...) progress is seen in HAWT, one can see only "horizontal" progress in AWES (several teams and searchers, progress in automation, but not progress in perspectives of massive productions). 

So it is the time to go towards what it is possible, technically AND    economically.

 

PierreB

 

 

Low level of realizations, low level of arguments, low level of attacks...

PierreB

DaveS wrote "You do no say which AWE camp is the low one, so I am unsure of your opinion here." ,then "...and concern over "attacks" is unduly paranoid.". Add low level of logic.

 

PierreB

 

Correction to start point 2:
Intended:

2. Lift things from point A to point B by kite-energy systems without
using electricity.
Second mode: have the AWES make electrcity and then use that
electricity to lift things. LIft people and things locally or around
the world by kite-energy systems.

DaveS,


Please try spreading your appreciations of who is optimistic or pessimist by widening your views to the whole field of wind energy within renewable energies vs fossil or nuclear energies. For example MikeB is optimistic for wind energy.

It is not AWE against HAWE. It is wind energy against fossil or nuclear energies.

 

PierreB

DaveS,


Please try spreading your appreciations of who is optimistic or pessimist by widening your views to the whole field of wind energy within renewable energies vs fossil or nuclear energies. For example MikeB is optimistic for wind energy.

It is not AWE against HAWT (correction). It is wind energy against fossil or nuclear energies.

 

PierreB