Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES12802to12854 Page 152 of 440.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12802 From: dougselsam Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: AWEA Windpower 2014 Mandalay Bay Las Vegas

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12803 From: dougselsam Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: Re: Landscape and Visual Impact Assessment

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12805 From: dave santos Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: Re: Landscape and Visual Impact Assessment

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12806 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: Re: Who is AWE-Weekly?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12808 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: TU Delft demo image

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12809 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: Launch/Land ? See right side of art.

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12810 From: dave santos Date: 5/10/2014
Subject: Corner-Block Drogue (review and update)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12811 From: dave santos Date: 5/10/2014
Subject: Tri-Tether to PTO, Drogue, and Work-Cell

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12813 From: dave santos Date: 5/10/2014
Subject: Re: Tri-Tether to PTO, Drogue, and Work-Cell

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12814 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/10/2014
Subject: Too near: drone and jet aircraft

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12815 From: dave santos Date: 5/10/2014
Subject: Spidercam Similarity Case

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12816 From: Harry Valentine Date: 5/11/2014
Subject: Prof. Crackpot's Research (possible merit)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12817 From: oonkdesign Date: 5/11/2014
Subject: Re: Who is AWE-Weekly?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12818 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/12/2014
Subject: Re: Who is AWE-Weekly?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12819 From: dave santos Date: 5/12/2014
Subject: CNN coverage of AWE

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12820 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/13/2014
Subject: Flying robots to inspect AWES parts?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12821 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/13/2014
Subject: Re: Flying robots to inspect AWES parts?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12822 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/13/2014
Subject: Growing living things up in the lofted spaces of kite systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12823 From: dave santos Date: 5/14/2014
Subject: Peter Lynn SS Powerkite Available

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12824 From: dougselsam Date: 5/14/2014
Subject: Re: Peter Lynn SS Powerkite Available

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12825 From: dave santos Date: 5/14/2014
Subject: Re: Peter Lynn SS Powerkite Available

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12826 From: dave santos Date: 5/14/2014
Subject: Industrial Bulk-Bags as Low-Cost Temporary Mega-Kite Anchor Solution

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12827 From: Rod Read Date: 5/15/2014
Subject: Re: Corner-Block Drogue (review and update)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12828 From: Rod Read Date: 5/15/2014
Subject: Re: Peter Lynn SS Powerkite Available

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12829 From: dave santos Date: 5/15/2014
Subject: Re: Corner-Block Drogue (review and update)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12830 From: Rod Read Date: 5/15/2014
Subject: Re: Corner-Block Drogue (review and update)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12831 From: dougselsam Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Can this kite fly single line? MPH survival?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12832 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: What applications in AWES for thermal sensing?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12833 From: Rod Read Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: Can this kite fly single line? MPH survival?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12834 From: dave santos Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: Can this kite fly single line? MPH survival?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12835 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12836 From: Harry Valentine Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12837 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12838 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: EnerKite's rotating-launch ambition for a 2017 MW-scale AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12839 From: Harry Valentine Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: EnerKite's rotating-launch ambition for a 2017 MW-scale AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12840 From: Harry Valentine Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12841 From: dougselsam Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: EnerKite's rotating-launch ambition for a 2017 MW-scale AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12842 From: dougselsam Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12843 From: dougselsam Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Speaking of history - Ben Franklin's Instructions

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12844 From: dave santos Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Speaking of history - Ben Franklin's Instructions

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12845 From: Cleventine Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12846 From: dave santos Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: MegaKiteSat under Mini-Mothra

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12847 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12848 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12849 From: Cleventine Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12850 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12851 From: Cleventine Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12852 From: dougselsam Date: 5/18/2014
Subject: Re: Speaking of history - Ben Franklin's Instructions

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12853 From: dougselsam Date: 5/18/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12854 From: dbmurr@ymail.com Date: 5/18/2014
Subject: Re: AirborneWindEnergy




Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12802 From: dougselsam Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: AWEA Windpower 2014 Mandalay Bay Las Vegas
This year's show was only 2.5 hours away, so I drove out for one day.  This year's exhibition floor was by far the smallest I have seen, and you could walk the whole show in an hour as opposed to getting lost for days in previous shows.  There was no "small wind" section this year, no outdoor displays, and no indication of anything airborne, just a lot of tower-climbing safety gear, powered climbing apparatus, etc.  It seems that perhaps solar is getting so cheap that interest in wind is waning.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12803 From: dougselsam Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: Re: Landscape and Visual Impact Assessment
Skimming this paper, it seemed to take a lot of words to say nothing.
By the way, if you want to see visually disturbing renewable energy, a new giant mirror-based solar power plant at Stateline looked bright even in the noon desert sunshine, with multiple visually-intense beams converging to create bright spots in the air itself - easy to see why it needed to be located far away from population centers.  (Saw it on the way to AWEA Windpower 2014 in Vegas - wear sunglasses for this experience)
With no workable AWE solutions having emerged yet, it's difficult to make meaningful statements on specifics such as visual impacts. 
"Conclusion: More study is needed".  Reminded me of Mr. McKay on Southpark:  Al there really is to say is "M'Kayyy...?"  or beyond that: "M'Kay, M'Kay, M'Kayyyyy....?"
M'Kay?  M'Kay then.

AWE Weekly: because in such a fast moving field, everything is different this week, than last week.  M'Kayyyy?
:)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12805 From: dave santos Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: Re: Landscape and Visual Impact Assessment
While its not a classic AWE paper, what it nicely advances is the emerging debate over the future visual impact of AWE v. WindTowers, while giving a snapshot into ongoing academic study of industrial impacts on quality of life.

Until serious AWE testing finally answers real-world uncertainties, windtowers will be a less certain proposition, with the worst-case scenario the expensive adoption of obsolete long-term windtower projects, just as cheaper better AWE suddenly explodes as the "biggest thing ever". Anti-windtower NIMBY forces can now cite this paper to fight conventional wind farm adoption. Theoretic AWE seems to win the visual impact point (note to MikeB).

The Great AWE Debate has been wonderful, but is running its course. The Ultimate AWE FlyOff is the next few years and billion dollars of R&D; Visual impact will be a key factor in top windpower markets, and this paper will be the original formal citation.


On Friday, May 9, 2014 9:02 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12806 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: Re: Who is AWE-Weekly?
He was invited today to our AWE Daily here in this tech forum. 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12808 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: TU Delft demo image
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12809 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/9/2014
Subject: Launch/Land ? See right side of art.

Launch/Land ?   See right side of art. 


http://kiteuniverse.ru/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Yokaichi%20Giant%20Kite%20Festival_WEB2.jpg


Found from page: 

Фестиваль воздушных змеев Yokaichi Giant Kite Festival


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12810 From: dave santos Date: 5/10/2014
Subject: Corner-Block Drogue (review and update)
A basic problem in AWE is that ideal crosswind kite motion is tangential to a circle (scope) around a central anchor-point. A solution proposed in recent years is to rig a Corner-Block Drogue that redirects load force back to the anchor work-cell. It was found that flipwings rigged with corner-block drogues pumped far more powerfully to the center-point. A key secondary function is that the drogue reduces slack-states in a frantically pumping line. The latest variation on this paradoxical theme (that added AWES drag can equate with greater power, eg. in normal "powered-up" powerkite trim) promotes high-velocity load motion as follows:

A multi-line power-kite rigged with a PTO (kPower rig) line that passes down thru a corner-block drogue creates high-velocity load motion. The enabling drogue rotates naturally around the central anchor with the rest of the rig. Thus the standard grunt power pumping of a solo kite at its anchor, and its inherent need for a high step-up transmission, is replaced by a cheap simple corner-block drogue.

CC BY NC SA
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12811 From: dave santos Date: 5/10/2014
Subject: Tri-Tether to PTO, Drogue, and Work-Cell
A Tri-Tether is easily rigged as the intersection of a PowerKite Power-Take-Off (PTO), Drogue, and AWES Work-Cell. The "rigger's angle" created determines the mechanical advantage at the work-cell, with very high load velocities possible.

The powerkite* is worked against the drogue, which pumps the line to the work-cell. This is close to a fundamentally elegant AWES solution, of modular COTS elements rigged in a maximal KIS configuration (KISCOTS).

CC BY NC SA


* actively piloted in figure-of-eights, or passively piloted by a looping foil under a pilot-kite.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12813 From: dave santos Date: 5/10/2014
Subject: Re: Tri-Tether to PTO, Drogue, and Work-Cell
Yes, one can see a tri-tether at the heart of the 2009 Dutch HAPA yacht concept. The basic kite-sailing idea is even older, with lots of fresh progress by Germy Award winners Luc D'Armant, Stephane Rousson (with others).

In broad case here being described, the target application is generating useful power in a static location. The HAPA/Chen-de-mer sea vehicles place a payload where our drogue module goes, and the sailing tri-tether is not pumped continuosly.

The Tri-Tether is a string-transistor, with endless applications. Question- Does the Tetra-Tether have fundamental utility modes as well? Penta-tether? Etc.?

On Saturday, May 10, 2014 10:19 AM, "Cleventine christianharrell@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12814 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/10/2014
Subject: Too near: drone and jet aircraft
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12815 From: dave santos Date: 5/10/2014
Subject: Spidercam Similarity Case
This COTS-hardware pattern-language would work even more radically by kites-


 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12816 From: Harry Valentine Date: 5/11/2014
Subject: Prof. Crackpot's Research (possible merit)

Several people who have interest in wind power research, have build small-scale turbines that purport to make more efficient use of the cross-section of air that flows toward the turbine.

The condemn large-scale 3-bladed turbines as "wasting valuable space"

With regard to large diameter (100-metres diameter) 3-bladed turbines, they generate over 90% of their power from the outer 25% of the radius . . . . . the newer turbines have borrowed ideas from the upper surface of airplane wings, in that they generate negative lift on the backside of the blade . . . operation that requires rapid air flow between the blades.

In a wind speed of 30-mi/hr, some of the large-scale turbines (100-metres diameter) may achieve 40% conversion efficiency . . . . while a small-scale turbine of 1-ft diameter may achieve about 5% conversion efficiency, with the outer 5% to 10% of blade radius generating most of the power.

In a small scale turbine, fast wind blows by the circumference of the turbine . . . . and the outer 5% to 10% of blade radius where most of the power is generated, is close to the circumference. A small-diameter, multi-blade turbine would naturally re-direct the flow of wind  to flow over the tips of the blades . . . the limited space between the blades otherwise restricting wind flow.

At low wind speed where efficiency of small-diameter turbine may drop to 2% (while the big-diameter turbine may be operating at 15% efficiency) . . . . A multi-blade small-diameter turbine may actually be operate to operate at 2.5% efficiency. The people who build these turbines invariably use household fans to generate a stream of wind.

The theory of the superior efficiency of multi-blade turbines may only be applicable to turbines of very small diameter and operating in low velocity winds . . . .  when the diameter gets bigger and the wind speed gets faster, a very different dynamic begins to occur.


Harry

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12817 From: oonkdesign Date: 5/11/2014
Subject: Re: Who is AWE-Weekly?
Its good to read that the AWES community discovered my Tumblr blog.

I'm a Soil, Water and Atmosphere student at Wageningen University, The Netherlands.
My university invested indirectly in the Dutch start up Ampyx power. Also the Meteorology and Air Quality Group is researching wind patterns near conventional turbines. I realised that there recently have been much developments in the field of AWE, but there wasn't a website that presented them in an attractive way.

Awe-weekly is mainly image oriented instead of text. Input is welcome.



.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12818 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/12/2014
Subject: Re: Who is AWE-Weekly?
Change note: 
It is rare that we change a file location. 

Here is just the new location: 

E.G. Oonk, 
        You are free to use images and text within the database of AWESMuseum  and EnergyKiteSystems for your AWE Weekly without attribution except where we have noted attribution.

~ JoeF
       
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12819 From: dave santos Date: 5/12/2014
Subject: CNN coverage of AWE
Add CNN to the AWE major-media club, a bit late. The CNN link below has extra text reportage but the Houston affliliate second video link played better for me. Altaeros most featured; competing with Google/Makani for the "remote" energy market niche-


On Monday, May 12, 2014 10:00 AM, Google Alerts <googlealerts-noreply@google.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12820 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/13/2014
Subject: Flying robots to inspect AWES parts?

Send out flying robots to inspect elements of a kite-energy farm. 

CC 4.0 BY NC SA


~JoeF

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12821 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/13/2014
Subject: Re: Flying robots to inspect AWES parts?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12822 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/13/2014
Subject: Growing living things up in the lofted spaces of kite systems

Growing living things up in the lofted spaces of kite systems


Grow vegetables and fruits and raise animals up in the wings of kite systems or in capsules and platforms lofted by kite systems. 

       CC 4.0 BY NC SA   kPower, Inc.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12823 From: dave santos Date: 5/14/2014
Subject: Peter Lynn SS Powerkite Available
Cheap, ugly, and irresistible; the closest pricing is an NPW or a Pansh parafoil sale. This traction kite probably only costs about 20 USD to make-


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12824 From: dougselsam Date: 5/14/2014
Subject: Re: Peter Lynn SS Powerkite Available
Thanks for that Joe.
I heard somewhere (here?) that Peter was working on single skin kites lately.
Click on the link and there are many choices offered.
What I wonder about is specifics:  If you have a productive wind, say 30 - 40 MPH, can these kites hang in there, or would they be damaged?  I also wonder how much weight they can lift in what windspeed, and can they be flown from a single line or do they require 2 lines?  Also, can they be flown unattended or do they require constant attention/adjustment from the ground?
Does anyone have any ideas about such details?
:)
Doug S.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12825 From: dave santos Date: 5/14/2014
Subject: Re: Peter Lynn SS Powerkite Available
Hi Doug,

Yes, the Forum did report PL's recent SS progress, as well as championing SS kites for five years now, sharing Dave Culp's AWE power-kite thinking.

Low cost fun kites have a definite flight envelope skewed toward light sport use, rather than the high winds and extreme duty AWE will require. As we try to wear out hobby kites, year after year, we only find that batten pockets and line attachment points eventually require repair. A bit of reinforcement ends the bother. We have yet to wear out a kite; some are faded and patched, but still fly like new. Surely someday we will wear out a kite, likely by UV exposure, to settle the open question of max life-cycle.

kPower's best built kite is our custom KiteShip OL, which was built to master-sailmaker's working-sail standards. Such construction takes periodic storm loads and lasts 2-4yrs (or more) in high-duty service, with only minor repairs. Professional (cruising) sail life-cycle standards are a sound predictor of kite sail life for AWE, given comparable wind and UV ratings,

daveS
On Wednesday, May 14, 2014 8:13 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12826 From: dave santos Date: 5/14/2014
Subject: Industrial Bulk-Bags as Low-Cost Temporary Mega-Kite Anchor Solution
We have covered hobby-kite sand-anchors, roofer's tear-out tarps, and civil-engineering gabions for versitile Mega-Kite anchors. One uses local bulk material to fill the bags, and there is no need to disturb the subsoil.

Poly Bulk-Bags (aka SuperSacks) are the lowest cost yet in this solution space, for temporary duty. A 22,000lb test rating bag costs as little as $11 USD. Note the inherent fork-lift compatibility-



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12827 From: Rod Read Date: 5/15/2014
Subject: Re: Corner-Block Drogue (review and update)
Thank you for presenting your findings and research on this Dave.
It's very encouraging to see passively self stabilising looping and reciprocal kite power inside a wind window being transferred to the ground.

I am struggling to translate how a Corner-Block Drogue actually functions...
I think it's two drogue like kites flown 1 to each side. Connected with a running loop and working above the normal KPower 2-direction stroke PTO rig.
or it may be ...
Is it an upwind inline drogue which initiates a flip return on maximum travel whilst also tensioning the line....

 I think it's the first option and you're trying to raise the height of the crosswind path. Any drawing / sketch available?

How long does the Texas test season last?
It's been great to hear all of the progress coming from KPower.


Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12828 From: Rod Read Date: 5/15/2014
Subject: Re: Peter Lynn SS Powerkite Available
more pictures of the Peter Lynn SS
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Skin-Kite-New-Traction-Kite-Designed_1431805330/showimage.html

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12829 From: dave santos Date: 5/15/2014
Subject: Re: Corner-Block Drogue (review and update)
Rod,

There are hundreds of variants of the corner-block drogue idea in the AWE Defensive Disclosures drawings, but here is a basic prose-picture.

Our 3D compressive kite "force-cube" is created by lift along the vertical axis, drag downwind, and crosswind surface-anchors or opposed lifting surfaces. Engineered use of drogue modules is a natural development. Loyd himself recognized drag force as useful, but many have hyped lift-force as the sole power principle to optimize around. The paradox is that added AWES drag can boost power-out while reducing overall L/D.

Consider a drogue and lifter, on a common anchor, with equal tether lengths (to bump rather than tangle, in theory). Each can host a pendant on its line with a corner-block, and a groundgen WECS* loop can run from the anchor, thru the corner blocks, and the WECS bit flies between the lifter above and drogue below.

The neatest part- By tuning the overall and relative leg-length of the WECS loop, the corner-blocks assume a passive equilibrium geometry between all three elements.

Another way to think of the corner-block drogue is as a free-running line-tensioner that drifts to an equilibrium point along a catenary.

The Texas AWE Encampment is almost over for the season, but we recently cast five more workcell flywheels. The local press is due, for a feature article (AAS CMG). Ed put up Mini-Mothra yesterday, long-lined, flying a very high angle; the impressive child of Mothra1. 

We are close to a mini-AWEfest Rock-the-Kite session, lacking only some wiring; and an electric guitar, which I may desperately hack from scrap as an electric diddley-bow with a Fender outline, in case no proper musician shows, 

daveS


* eg. FlipWing or Looping Foil.
On Thursday, May 15, 2014 2:05 AM, "Rod Read rod.read@gmail.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12830 From: Rod Read Date: 5/15/2014
Subject: Re: Corner-Block Drogue (review and update)
Thanks for the clarification Dave,
I was reading more complexity into "Corner-Block" than I needed.

Block as in Block and tackle.
Corner as in corner of a triangle... in a 2d line,  free space equilibrium balance point of drogue or lifter block vs 2 sides of loop tension.

I managed to get back in the loft today (at last)... unpicking my wee parafoils to make a simpler spinner.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12831 From: dougselsam Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Can this kite fly single line? MPH survival?
Aliexpress.com : Buy parafoil power kite from Reliable kite power generation suppliers on Weifang Kaixuan Kite Manufacture Co., Ltd.


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12832 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: What applications in AWES for thermal sensing?
http://www.raytheon.com/newsroom/feature/rtn14_thermal.html
============================
Open for AWES applications of the technology: 

Start: 
    Consider other aircraft, birds ... 
    Consider surveillance ...
    Consider reactive messaging for collision avoidance ...
    Consider overpressure sensed through thermal footprint changes ... 
    ??

 

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12833 From: Rod Read Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: Can this kite fly single line? MPH survival?
It's shown flying as a single line in the photo...
Looks like a fairly standard single line parafoil type lifter

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12834 From: dave santos Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: Can this kite fly single line? MPH survival?
Yes, it flies single-line, and its quite a bargain (~12m2 for 200 USD).

Sutton was a parachute designer who set out to create the FLowForm as the ultimate pilot-lifter kite, forty years ago. Since then it has been a popular choice by serious soft-kite fliers. Its not the strongest lifter for its size, but more stable than most. It is not specialized as a high-wind kite, since most kite festivals are in moderate breezes. 20mph is near the max comfortable wind for most versions, which are lightly constructed for low-wind, and do not require tails.
On Friday, May 16, 2014 7:48 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12835 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
http://www.surfertoday.com/kiteboarding/10373-seaglider-believes-you-can-fly
Popularizing Seaglider ?

[FFAWE water-air-kite system; Paravane air and two kites, one Being the pilot complex. ]
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12836 From: Harry Valentine Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
A kite pulling a wing-in-ground-effect craft may be able to 'fly' over lakes and along some rivers.


Harry


To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 17:58:17 -0700
Subject: [AWES] Popularization of SeaGlider ?

 
http://www.surfertoday.com/kiteboarding/10373-seaglider-believes-you-can-fly
Popularizing Seaglider ?

[FFAWE water-air-kite system; Paravane air and two kites, one Being the pilot complex. ]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12837 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
  So, Harry, let's get on the same page on your idea. I will here aim to express what I believe you are suggesting: 

       Have a tethered wing anchored to a wing below; the below wing is in near-water-surface airs and the upper wing or wing set is in upper air; the FFAWE deal in this suggestion would work the the difference in airs near water surface and the upper airs; then the aim would be to keep the lower wing in ground effect flight and not paravaning in the water and also not flown up out of ground-effect air. That is, the FFAWE system in your suggestion would stay with the lower wing in ground-effect realm. 

Is that a match for your suggestion?


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <harrycv@hotmail.com { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1406074623 #ygrps-yiv-1406074623ygrps-yiv-228631920 .ygrps-yiv-1406074623ygrps-yiv-228631920hmmessage { font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}
A kite pulling a wing-in-ground-effect craft may be able to 'fly' over lakes and along some rivers.

Harry

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12838 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: EnerKite's rotating-launch ambition for a 2017 MW-scale AWES
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12839 From: Harry Valentine Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: EnerKite's rotating-launch ambition for a 2017 MW-scale AWES
We anxious await the demonstration of the working prototype 


To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 20:31:30 -0700
Subject: [AWES] Re: EnerKite's rotating-launch ambition for a 2017 MW-scale AWES

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12840 From: Harry Valentine Date: 5/16/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
Hi Joe,


You've got it . . . . . the upper wing (kite-sail) provides the propulsion while the lower wing rides a few feet above water. The forward motion of the lower wing causes air to interact with the water (or ground) surface . . . so the lower wing 'rides' on a cushion (or disturbance) of air. 

There are many examples of ground-effect craft (AKA 'skim-craft) around the world . . . they require comparatively little energy to become airborne and just above a relatively smooth surface. 

A kite-sail at 1,000-m elevation would interact with high-speed winds and pull the ground-effect craft at 1 to 2-m elevation above water surface. This concept could follow the trade winds and provide semi-fast transportation service . . . a yacht that skims above the water surface while being pulled by an airborne sail.


Harry


To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 18:16:09 -0700
Subject: RE: [AWES] Popularization of SeaGlider ?

 

  So, Harry, let's get on the same page on your idea. I will here aim to express what I believe you are suggesting: 

       Have a tethered wing anchored to a wing below; the below wing is in near-water-surface airs and the upper wing or wing set is in upper air; the FFAWE deal in this suggestion would work the the difference in airs near water surface and the upper airs; then the aim would be to keep the lower wing in ground effect flight and not paravaning in the water and also not flown up out of ground-effect air. That is, the FFAWE system in your suggestion would stay with the lower wing in ground-effect realm. 

Is that a match for your suggestion?


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <harrycv@hotmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12841 From: dougselsam Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: EnerKite's rotating-launch ambition for a 2017 MW-scale AWES
"The YOYO Principle" hmmmm, - pregnant with meaning.  I hate to bring it up, but these words engender a picture of "the good professor", speaking in front of a group of academics, his hair particularly unkempt that day for effect, revealing "Ze YOYO Principle!"  Yahhhhh.  Whoopeeeeee!
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12842 From: dougselsam Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
This is what I was envisioning for flying sailing yachts back in the 1980's (I tend to see history in reverse time).  Glad to see someone doing it.  Looks fun.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12843 From: dougselsam Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Speaking of history - Ben Franklin's Instructions
This has probably been posted before, but I ran across Ben Franklin's instructions for his kite energy experiment. 
Benjamin Franklin . Electrical Kite | PBS

 

He says you stay under a roof so the part of the string you hold onto remains dry.  Geez they were pretty smart back then.  A roof - who knew?  Rather than capturing actual lightning strikes, he just used the static charge to demonstrate charging up the same old-fashioned accumulators etc. used to study static electricity in his day. 

Not sure how he avoided actual strikes, which killed a few people in a similar shack on top of a mountain that a rocket scientist friend of mine was inside, with other rocket scientists.  (no, really - as rocket scientists jokingly say, "rocket scientists are not rocket scientists...")  Sounds pretty dangerous, but fun until that massively powerful bolt hits.  It always makes one wonder about ways to harness natural, large scale static charges.

I will save Dave S. the trouble of replying and do it for him:

" Yeth thith hath already been dithcuthed at length.  Your thnide commenths about rocket thientithtth do nothing to remedy your failure to exthplain how a thuperturbine can tranthmit torque or overcome cubic thcaling lawth.  Prepare to meet your doom ath the world patheth you by..."

There, how did I do?
:)))


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12844 From: dave santos Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Speaking of history - Ben Franklin's Instructions
Doug,

You are correct, this topic is long closely discussed, in particular the safety dimension, since kite farm workers will be exposed to greater lightning risk. The scientific consensus is that Franklin was merely lucky. 

AWE has a wonderful trove of real rocket scientists, like Lang, Ockels, Carlin, Loyd, Bolonkin, North, Moore, and so on. Many of these figures are targeted by your compulsive ProfC insults (as well as a wider group of AWE academics). Who exactly are the "engineers" and "rocket scientists" you claim to befriend? Would any be willing to stand up in the AWE world for your social conduct and engineering claims? 

Your technical questions are appreciated and answered faithfully, like the recent SS and FlowForm queries. Please contribute new on-topic content, rather than only inventing ProfC topics,

daveS
On Saturday, May 17, 2014 7:25 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com [AirborneWindEnergy]" <AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12845 From: Cleventine Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
Had anyone seen a resource for this type of vehicle?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12846 From: dave santos Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: MegaKiteSat under Mini-Mothra
At kFarm yesterday, for the AWE Documentary cameras, we flew the MegaKiteSat (3.5m dia AWT) as a WECS under the MiniMothra kite arch. Wind and lighting were perfect for kite and camera, in a spring pastoral landscape. The AWES launched and flew quite grandly. As if on cue, the neighbor's longhorn cattle escaped into the kite field and had to be herded by a tall-bike away from the experiment.

This improv. rig shows how handy AWES modular swapping is. Mono-Mothra is next for testing (1000ft2), perhaps later today. The electric drill drives we are using for generators have a quirk: we overlooked the speed control in modern units, which which must have been breaking down by the reverse current, or acting as a dropping diode, since we still got an output before. Our previous hacks zip-tied the triggers down, and we never looked inside closely. We seem to have burned out the unit yesterday, since it has stopped generating.

Worse, we are also in doubt about kite trickle charging the utility grid recently, since its been noted that our classic GE meter was not finely adjusted, crawling all along, and we had AC hot wire reversed to the grid-tie. Its not sure what happened, but we must redo the feat, but this time with a digital meter interface that will present better data. Hurry and claim this "easy" AWE first before we again do, in the next day or so...
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12847 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?


---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <christianharrell@gmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12848 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Aerial Apparatus 
David Thayer Patent number : US 417755     Filing date : Jul 22, 1889  

======================================================

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12849 From: Cleventine Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12850 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
The fundamental method of kiting with a paravaning water kite while having human transport at mid tether is in public domain.   Particulars of the paravane, control, and other details are ever open to creative improvements that might include novelty for protection. 



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12851 From: Cleventine Date: 5/17/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12852 From: dougselsam Date: 5/18/2014
Subject: Re: Speaking of history - Ben Franklin's Instructions
Hi Dave Eth
Yes I knew you would be unable to resist responding to this.  And that you'd have to scold me as though YOU are the wind energy authority, while I know nothing.  And of course in your mind it is all about "credentials", with the entire field of AWE amounting to empty statements of grandeur combined with a personality contest. 

My rocket scientist friends began as fellow UCI students who got jobs at Edwards Air Force Base decades ago, and more rocket scientists we've met since.  I now live in the Mojave desert, which is a treasure trove of rocketry and experimental aviation, as well as wind buggying etc.

Here's what I think is funny:
You list a whole big group of people you call "rocket scientists", but then it seems their credentials fall flat - they seem to have no real advantage over the rest of the unwashed humanity who can't think their way out of the paper bag of nonworkable or just ineffective AWE systems.  Citing their credentials in the face of consistent failure would seem to be more of an embarassment than a badge of achievement.

The fact that you seem to think that all academics, or anyone with a college degree, would feel like the term "professor crackpot" applies to them, personally, is just not so.  Real science and engineering has always thrived on skepticism and insistence on a "prove it to me" attitude.  Even most people who exhibit strong Crackpot tendencies are usually unable to see this themselves, as it is a self-perpetuating delusion.  Ignoring facts is a habit that is seldom broken.  Most crackpots will agree about the prevalence of crackpots, but assume the term does not apply to them.

You have to understand something:  We real wind energy people make fun of idiotic wind energy devices all the time.  We no longer have to discuss the details - we all know what makes the ideas so stupid.  These days we typically just post a link and a quick comment such as "'nuf said". which I read just last week.

Today I read another mocking post of one more "breakthrough" wind turbine.  One of us windy's posted the link:  Here's his post.  It starts out sounding like a country song::
*****************
"I was traveling in Texas to pick up my new bees for my hive and decided to stop for lunch in Seymour. After I turned off of the main highway I was shocked to see several contraptions that looked like a discard from Mad Max, but they were turning in the wind.
It appears that someone took a list of the best and worst parts of every wind generator design and then went to unusual lengths to pick the worst of the two in each case and combine them into one design. The result appears to be an unbelievably horrible design. And they appear to be selling them.
They are shrouded drag-based machines turned on their side with no tail (apparently wind orientation is by motor drive) the size of a small two-story house, made of tons of steel, and yet they sweep about 60 square feet of wind.
I took some pics and video, but don't know how to post them, but check out the crazy ideas on their webpage at http://www.kenningglobal.com/ Funnel%20wheel.htm . Anyone know any redeeming qualities of them?
Please don't hold this against Texas... they must be from elsewhere! :-) "
*****************
Now you and all YOUR professor crackpot rocket scientists would probably take this device seriously and begin seriously analyzing it for its immense potential.  But, like a mathematician would not need to strain his brain to analyze the statement 2+2=6, real wind people do not need to analyze dumb wind ideas - you just look at them and see 10 major problems and do not need to take the time to list them - we can all see the problems.  They do not need to be stated.

Most everything you have seen in the field of AWE so far is mostly just..., well....  dumb.  (sorry)  :)

By the way, thanks for answering my question about the kite.  You know I am just busting your chops, right?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12853 From: dougselsam Date: 5/18/2014
Subject: Re: Popularization of SeaGlider ?
Thanks for digging that one up Joe!
Ya gotta love the artwork in those old patents.
Note, though, while sailing ships and windmills had centuries before transitioned to "crosswind", this contraption looks like a downwind machine.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12854 From: dbmurr@ymail.com Date: 5/18/2014
Subject: Re: AirborneWindEnergy
Cleventine,

It is a pleasure to see your work & begin to understand your path.

I have posted a little of Harlan Hubbard's text from his 1953 book called Shantyboat: A River Way of Life http://agronautics.com/post/86072773692/harlan-hubbard-writes-about-underwater-sails ). In it he describes the shellers use of a "mud sail" for bottom dragging in a current, and he also recounts his modified use of the technique for the control of his watercraft. While not having exactly the same force diagram and conditions, you can see the similarities to Stephane Rousson's exciting Aerosail project, as well as others.

I am looking forward to your future endeavors. Try not to ever be discouraged by the fact that many good ideas can sit on the drawing board or at model scale due to people's inability to understand how to incorporate the new & better way into their daily routines.

David