Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES12237to12294 Page 141 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12237 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12238 From: Harry Valentine Date: 3/29/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12239 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12240 From: Harry Valentine Date: 3/29/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?) - Mideast

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12241 From: mmarchitti Date: 3/30/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12242 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 3/30/2014
Subject: AWE can become a major energy sector not while being viable economic

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12243 From: aldo Cattano Date: 3/30/2014
Subject: Re: History of the "reel" method

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12244 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/30/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12245 From: Harry Valentine Date: 3/30/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12246 From: dave santos Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12247 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Festo - DualWingGenerator (Deutsch)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12248 From: dougselsam Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Festo - DualWingGenerator (Deutsch) (P. Crackpot)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12249 From: aldo Cattano Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12250 From: dave santos Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Festo - DualWingGenerator (Deutsch) (P. Crackpot)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12251 From: dougselsam Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Festo - DualWingGenerator (Deutsch) (P. Crackpot)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12252 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12253 From: aldo Cattano Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12254 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Fwd: ALTAEROS: Brand New Video, Poised to Break Record in Alaska, Ta

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12255 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Rung wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12256 From: dougselsam Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Rung wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12257 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Rung wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12258 From: dougselsam Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Rung wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12259 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Rung wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12260 From: Massimo Ippolito Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12261 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Festo - DualWingGenerator (Deutsch) (P. Crackpot)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12262 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12263 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Rung wings

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12264 From: Harry Valentine Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12265 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: How the Rigid Wing enabled the Soft Parafoil

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12266 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12267 From: Massimo Ippolito Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12268 From: Massimo Ippolito Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12269 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12270 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Who really invented Cableway AWES?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12271 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12272 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Cornell's WingMill

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12274 From: dougselsam Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12276 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Straight tracks

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12277 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Straight tracks

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12280 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Straight tracks

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12281 From: Harry Valentine Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12282 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Straight tracks

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12283 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: COTS Railway Couplings as compass-belay hardware solution

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12284 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: France: FR2667904 ... circa year 1990

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12285 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: France: FR2667904 ... circa year 1990

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12288 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Positively-lifting tethers

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12290 From: stephane rousson Date: 4/2/2014
Subject: Voilier des Airs, c'est en septembre...!

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12292 From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/2/2014
Subject: New file uploaded to AirborneWindEnergy

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12293 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/2/2014
Subject: Off-Topic Archive

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12294 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/2/2014
Subject: Re: Airborne Seaborne Wind Energy System (WheelWind)



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12237 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)
Hi Harry,

The narrow question is whether the Saudi bet on KiteGen (via SABIC) is diversified enough. Does KiteGen really have a uniquely superior solution? 

Everybody agrees on two facts: Upper wind is an amazing resource, and the global need for AWES solutions is great. But does KiteGen's patent protfolio contain the key solutions in original form, as claimed?

What is your opinion of SABIC's entry into AWE? Should we not as a global community engage SABIC to expand its AWE R&D?

daveS



On Saturday, March 29, 2014 9:07 AM, Harry Valentine <harrycv@hotmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12238 From: Harry Valentine Date: 3/29/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)
Hi Dave,


Ultimately, the market is going to have to decide as to who has the uniquely superior solution . . . . . that means, generating the required amount of power at subsidy-free, market competitive rates.

In my view, the only valid comparison that will be made amongst the different AWE technologies, is their application in the market . . .  . the market will seek competitive rates over the short and long-term for the amount of power being produced.

I personally see point into getting into debates as to who has the superior AWE technology . . . . .  the market will ultimately decide that. In my view, different AWE technologies have their own unique future market niches . . . . . . your tripod kite system certainly has application in decentralized power generation at many rural locations, including on small sparsely populated islands. 

Kitegen's carousel may have application at elevated locations near cities . . . like on top of coastal mountains . . . . and I very definitely have a location for them, if their technology can do the job. Their technology would also have application at island locations . . . . and many islands do have a region of high elevation.

I also have locations in the windswept valleys of coastal mountains (South Africa, India) where I would actually consider Selsam's superturbine technology. 

I am presently preparing a presentation and article on future power generation in Southern Africa . .  . . off-grid power will be in the mix, as will subsidy-free wind power. I certainly hope that AWE people will be able to acquire the needed private investment to build technology that may be applied internationally in the power market.


Harry

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: santos137@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 09:42:56 -0700
Subject: Re: [AWES] KiteGen Solutions (?)

 

Hi Harry,

The narrow question is whether the Saudi bet on KiteGen (via SABIC) is diversified enough. Does KiteGen really have a uniquely superior solution? 

Everybody agrees on two facts: Upper wind is an amazing resource, and the global need for AWES solutions is great. But does KiteGen's patent protfolio contain the key solutions in original form, as claimed?

What is your opinion of SABIC's entry into AWE? Should we not as a global community engage SABIC to expand its AWE R&D?

daveS



On Saturday, March 29, 2014 9:07 AM, Harry Valentine <harrycv@hotmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12239 From: dave santos Date: 3/29/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)
Harry, 

Thanks for the comments. We agree on most key points.

The market will indeed decide winners, but that can only happen once winning engineers make the right down-select. The excitement over " who has the superior AWE technology" is not just for those few who are creating the early prototypes, but for any fan of living  aerospace engineering history.

The SABIC KiteGen play makes a narrow technological bet. We follow Arab World AWE thinking by your advisements. Is the SABIC KiteGen choice not about picking superior technology, for example, merely a beginning to a diversified AWE protfolio? This would fit your vision of many different AWES architectures finding rich niches (like historic aviation diversity), rather than one dominant school (like HAWT evolution).

To expertly pick a big tech winner is most favored by markets. What great fun to try to help the world by playing seriously with kites,.Both goals are enhanced by "debates as to who has the superior AWE technology".

daveS.


On Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:33 AM, Harry Valentine <harrycv@hotmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12240 From: Harry Valentine Date: 3/29/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?) - Mideast

Hi Dave,


Several Middle Eastern countries are investing heavily into renewable energy, encouraged by the DESERTEC initiative that began in Europe (Germany) to import renewable energy from North Africa and the Middle East. The decisions to invest are made by government people, not by private investors who could invest in promising technology.

There is already an undersea power cable connecting under the Strait of Gibraltar, between Algeria and Spain . . . . a second undersea cable connects between Israel and Greece. Germany's Chancellor has chosen to phase out nuclear power and replace it with renewable technology. Several research groups have examined installing an undersea electric power cable between Iceland and Germany . . . lots of renewable energy generation potential at Iceland, except that their economy is strapped for cash.

Several years ago, I published quite extensively in Middle Eastern English language technical magazines about applying AWE technology across the MENA (Middle East and North Africa) . . . . at the time, Magenn was still regarded as being a competitive technology. Gulf states such as Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Kuwait and Muscat/Oman are all investing in renewable . . . hence the proliferation of solar installations. 

Given the prevailing world economic situation, there is much money available across the Middle East's oil producing nations . . . to invest in and sell electric power from renewable sources, into Europe 


Harry

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: santos137@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 13:08:54 -0700
Subject: Re: [AWES] KiteGen Solutions (?)

 

Harry, 

Thanks for the comments. We agree on most key points.

The market will indeed decide winners, but that can only happen once winning engineers make the right down-select. The excitement over " who has the superior AWE technology" is not just for those few who are creating the early prototypes, but for any fan of living  aerospace engineering history.

The SABIC KiteGen play makes a narrow technological bet. We follow Arab World AWE thinking by your advisements. Is the SABIC KiteGen choice not about picking superior technology, for example, merely a beginning to a diversified AWE protfolio? This would fit your vision of many different AWES architectures finding rich niches (like historic aviation diversity), rather than one dominant school (like HAWT evolution).

To expertly pick a big tech winner is most favored by markets. What great fun to try to help the world by playing seriously with kites,.Both goals are enhanced by "debates as to who has the superior AWE technology".

daveS.



.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12241 From: mmarchitti Date: 3/30/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)
The market dictatorship is actually slowing down the development of the high altitude wind technology. I see lot of people and companies struggling, competing and fighting toward that goal, whereas at this level, with the paramout technical challenges in front of that goal, cooperation and a common path should be instead the correct alternatives. Manhattan and Apollo projects stem from that  cooperation spirit and not from market forces. Market is suitable for the best choosing of sweeties, trousers, glasses, but not for solving human problems.

Actually the market dictatorship have ruined entire nations, has blocked good medical researches, and has made people stupid.

---In AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com, <harrycv@... { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #ygrps-yiv-1216479455 #ygrps-yiv-1216479455ygrps-yiv-691439805 .ygrps-yiv-1216479455ygrps-yiv-691439805hmmessage { font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}
Hi Dave,


Ultimately, the market is going to have to decide as to who has the uniquely superior solution . . . . . that means, generating the required amount of power at subsidy-free, market competitive rates.

In my view, the only valid comparison that will be made amongst the different AWE technologies, is their application in the market . . .  . the market will seek competitive rates over the short and long-term for the amount of power being produced.

I personally see point into getting into debates as to who has the superior AWE technology . . . . .  the market will ultimately decide that. In my view, different AWE technologies have their own unique future market niches . . . . . . your tripod kite system certainly has application in decentralized power generation at many rural locations, including on small sparsely populated islands. 

Kitegen's carousel may have application at elevated locations near cities . . . like on top of coastal mountains . . . . and I very definitely have a location for them, if their technology can do the job. Their technology would also have application at island locations . . . . and many islands do have a region of high elevation.

I also have locations in the windswept valleys of coastal mountains (South Africa, India) where I would actually consider Selsam's superturbine technology. 

I am presently preparing a presentation and article on future power generation in Southern Africa . .  . . off-grid power will be in the mix, as will subsidy-free wind power. I certainly hope that AWE people will be able to acquire the needed private investment to build technology that may be applied internationally in the power market.


Harry

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: santos137@...
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 09:42:56 -0700
Subject: Re: [AWES] KiteGen Solutions (?)

 

Hi Harry,

The narrow question is whether the Saudi bet on KiteGen (via SABIC) is diversified enough. Does KiteGen really have a uniquely superior solution? 

Everybody agrees on two facts: Upper wind is an amazing resource, and the global need for AWES solutions is great. But does KiteGen's patent protfolio contain the key solutions in original form, as claimed?

What is your opinion of SABIC's entry into AWE? Should we not as a global community engage SABIC to expand its AWE R&D?

daveS



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Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12242 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 3/30/2014
Subject: AWE can become a major energy sector not while being viable economic

How is it possible? Actually AWE cannot compete with HAWT according to actual technico-economic standards. But renewable energies are not viable as a sole source of electricity. And renewable energies should become the sole source of electricity and other forms of converted energies. So AWE does not have to compete with HAWT but be added in HAWT in a near future, and where HAWT are not easily implementable, farshore or above forests for example. Mario Marchitti rightly point the insufficiency of the law of the market for an essential domain. Governments can introduce other parameters, or change some coefficients of existing parameters to go towards an energy world where fossils become only a storage, not an active source of energy; but that is possible if a consensus around few schemes is found and if a prototype is realized to prove enough qualities as major supplement to be still no viable economically by actual standards while it can allow to change enough the global economic standards.

 

PierreB 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12243 From: aldo Cattano Date: 3/30/2014
Subject: Re: History of the "reel" method
Dear All,
you are talking of all systems AWE, but I don't se the

http://nts-transportsysteme.de

It seems really similar to Kite-gen Carousel. they also wrote they have a lot of patents on this system...so I think that there will be a lot of war in the near future for all these patents!
But  when there will be the first "standard" energy coming from AWE?

I hope soon!

regards


Aldo Cattano
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12244 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/30/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)
Cooperating toward solid AWE science to describe best arts and practices would provide most robust foundations. Proving strong designs supports ultimate efficiency and service opportunity. The market history will hold first eras of non-optimal system selects; there is no stopping early entrepreneurs (and they will provide some data useful for the basic cooperative AWE-science community). 
For the ten scales of AWE:___________________________________
(from tiny to miniature to recreational to sport to village to utility to nation to world ...:
== AWE Imagineers
== AWE Hobbyists
== AWE Publishers
== AWE Science Community
== AWE Engineering Community
== AWE Educators
== AWE Manufacturers.  OEM
== AWE Suppliers
== AWE Technicians
== AWE Managers
== AWE Pilots
== AWE Early-Select Entrepreneur Community
== AWE Consumers
== AWE Politicians
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12245 From: Harry Valentine Date: 3/30/2014
Subject: Re: KiteGen Solutions (?)
One cause slowing acceptance of AWE technology is governments investing in tower-based wind turbines . . . . .  manufacturers of 3-bladed, tower-mounted turbines know that there are governments willing to either purchase their technology, or provide subsidy to a private company that sells renewable electric power to the grid.

Several governments have invested money in established wind turbine manufacturers (one regional government in Canada invested almost $1-billion into Samsung wind power) . . . companies like Siemens, Vestas and GE are guaranteed markets for their wind energy products . . .. the most powerful turbine is now rated at 6MW.

Governments like to "invest" in big power projects . . . . so the 6MW tower-turbine will attract governments directly or indirectly as customers. Wind turbines of low power ratings are NOT attracting government investment . . . . so government energy departments presently have no interest in AWE technology that only delivers a few hundred kilowatts of power.


 
Harry

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: marchitti@hotmail.com
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2014 04:39:27 -0700
Subject: RE: [AWES] KiteGen Solutions (?)

 
The market dictatorship is actually slowing down the development of the high altitude wind technology. I see lot of people and companies struggling, competing and fighting toward that goal, whereas at this level, with the paramout technical challenges in front of that goal, cooperation and a common path should be instead the correct alternatives. Manhattan and Apollo projects stem from that  cooperation spirit and not from market forces. Market is suitable for the best choosing of sweeties, trousers, glasses, but not for solving human problems.

Actually the market dictatorship have ruined entire nations, has blocked good medical researches, and has made people stupid.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12246 From: dave santos Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)


Aldo Cattano asked about railway-based AWES, noting NTS IP claims overlap KiteGen claims.

The open-AWE position is that there is both prior art and obviousness to the idea. There are old patents with wind-power train loops and many public discussions of AWE tracks, rails, and cableways. Every time we look closer, we find more instances of the idea. The AWES Forum is the largest trove of open-AWE railway discussion, spanning six years.

AWE railways are not as technologically attractive as we first thought. Kite loads come in massive chaotic surges, so every part of an AWES railway has to meet peak load factors in sideways and upwards directions. Conventional railroads do not accept these loads, and even monorail and roller coaster engineering is not designed for wild monster kite loadings.

As NTS and KiteGen both envision, isolated kite railcars only occupy a small fraction of the massively-strong railway to only barely tap the wind power in the required airspace and land footprint. The many-kite close-control problem is a nightmare. A single kite or railcar failure can disrupt the entire loop. The elevated tracks shown in artist renderings require comparable massive structure to wind towers. Its an extra complication to put small generators on vehicles, compared to larger stationary generators.

The latest open-AWE thinking to avoid all these flaws is to take, in effect, a TGV engine in regen-brake mode set up stationary on legs and pass kite-driven cables at high speed along the wheels (CC 3.0). Instead of rail-loop or a carousel, a star network of cableways would aggregate momentum to large central generation. In principle, legacy power-plants can be converted to kite hybrids by such cableways, leveraging existing generation investment. The kite part would be a single giant integrated wing (of cross-linked kixels) as a single control process, without disruption by small local failures. If NTS or KiteGen succeed in creating an AWES railway loop, in principle, an open-AWE mega-kite could operate from it at higher capacity.


Aldlo also asked when and what might be the first "standard" AWE product. Based on the historical space rocketry similarity case, the parafoil is the early standard wing design, and the KiteSails North Sails NZ 300m2 is the "V2" model, with a ~2MW rating and integrated launching-landing capability. Of course the V2 was just a small start.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12247 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Festo - DualWingGenerator (Deutsch)

Festo - DualWingGenerator (Deutsch)


Anyone up for an "aweification" project related to this?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12248 From: dougselsam Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Festo - DualWingGenerator (Deutsch) (P. Crackpot)
Thay, hath anyone theen Profethor Crackpot lately?  Oh wait there he ith, down at the wind tunnel again.  Thith is the greateth idea I've theen in a long time!  We need to find wayth to uthe more material to get leth power, in leth reliable wayth, that will quickly break and wear out.  High tholidity ith ethential!  More blade thweeping leth area!   More thlowly!  Yeth!  Elimination of thteady-thate rotathion and adding both chain driveth AND belt driveth is another ethential thecret!  But the betht thing ith the low efficienthy.  Here'th another one for you Joe!
:)
http://www.biroair.com/index.html
Thith is another one of the P Crackpots favoriteth: uthing 24 bladeth inthead of only two or three, uthing thlip ringth to harneth the power of two counter-rotating thetth of bladeth!  Thith ith known ath the "beating a dead horth" printhiple!  Have fun kidth!
Duh huh!
(insert P.C. show theme music here)
(break to commercial)
:)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12249 From: aldo Cattano Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
Hi Dave,
thanks for your comments!
Bye

 
Aldo Cattano
web-site:    www.libellula8.com ;
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12250 From: dave santos Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Festo - DualWingGenerator (Deutsch) (P. Crackpot)
Festo's benchtop  wingmill demo barely suggests the AWE power possible by tacking giant soft-wings. Its mostly just a cool educational demo of a dragonfly-like wingmill, superbly made with industrial-rated automation components.

Doug only mocks wingmills, but they are a respectable study topic in aerospace. Festo is a top industrial automation supplier with a leading creative program to make flying biomimetic novelties. In Austin, around 1990, we pioneered the genre of flying animatronic robots (as the Robot Group) that Festo worthily continues to advance. Doug's untechnical bias against AWE wingmill study and Festo are not helpful.

Soft wingmills deserve careful study in AWE for their high scalability and power-to-weight potential. Conventional HAWT rotors are far more scale-limited and massive for a rated max power.


On Monday, March 31, 2014 8:32 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com" <dougselsam@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12251 From: dougselsam Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Festo - DualWingGenerator (Deutsch) (P. Crackpot)
A "respectable study topic in aerospace"?  For whom?  Why?   Wasn't it just a couple days ago you were explaining that academic types do not naturally gravitate toward wind tunnels?  ( Thanks for correcting me once again). 
We're expecting 30-40 mph winds today.  I'd like to see that piece of garbage survive the afternoon outside.  Why do projects like this even SEEM (to some) to get any momentary traction?  Because the teeming throngs don't know the difference between good engineering, and smoke with music in a wind tunnel.  Those over-engineered thousand-dollar carbon wings still look a little shaky to me.  Keep that toy in a wind tunnel where it belongs!  Which do you favor, that toy, or the "laddermill in a box"?  http://www.capebouvardenergy.com.au/linear
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12252 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12253 From: aldo Cattano Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
Hi Dave,
regarding the latest open-AWE thinking to avoid all these flaws is to take, in effect, a TGV engine in regen-brake mode set up stationary on legs and pass kite-driven cables at high speed along the wheels (CC 3.0), I didn't find anything searching on your site and internet. Can you please send me the correct link?
thanks

 regards
 
Aldo Cattano
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12254 From: Joe Faust Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Fwd: ALTAEROS: Brand New Video, Poised to Break Record in Alaska, Ta


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ben Glass - Altaeros Energies <info@altaerosenergies.com Date: Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 4:00 AM
Subject: ALTAEROS: Brand New Video, Poised to Break Record in Alaska, Tata Investment
To: Joe <editor@upperwindpower.com
  • New Video of the BAT (Buoyant Airborne Turbine)
  • $1.3 Million Alaska Pilot Begins Permitting
  • Ratan Tata Joins Altaeros as Investor & Advisor
  • New York Times Profiles Altaeros

March 2014

This week Altaeros announced plans for our record-setting Alaska pilot, our most recent funding, and our latest prototype results. Please spread the news far and wide. As always, we appreciate introductions and inquiries about new partnership opportunities.
-Ben Glass, Altaeros CEO
New BAT Prototype VIDEO
Altaeros successfully completed our BAT V4 prototype testing in Limestone, Maine. The BAT reached a new operational altitude of 500 feet, and remained stable in 40+ mph winds. See our latest video below.

 
$1.3 Million Alaska Pilot Begins Permitting
The BAT pilot project, partially financed by the Alaska Energy Authority’s Emerging Energy Technology Fund, will be the first long-term demonstration of an airborne wind turbine. The project is currently being permitted for a site south of Fairbanks. At a height of 1,000 feet, the BAT commercial-scale pilot in Alaska will be over 275 feet taller than the current record holder for the highest wind turbine.
Ratan N. Tata Joins Advisory Board
RNT Associates International Pte. Ltd., a company owned and controlled by Mr. Ratan N. Tata, former Chairman of the Tata Group has recently made an investment in Altaeros Energies. Tata Power, a subsidiary of the Tata Group, is a leading developer of wind projects in India. Mr. Tata will join our Advisory Board, and Altaeros has been invited to India in April to explore new partnership opportunities.
New York Times Profiles Altaeros
Altaeros was featured on the front page of the New York Times Business Day. The article thoughtfully captured our market and proven technology: "Rather than inventing a whole new approach...[Altaeros] looked to the most proven, least risky equipment to make a product as quickly and cheaply as possible."
-New York Times
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Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12255 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Rung wings
Rung Wings
in various options: 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12256 From: dougselsam Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Rung wings
rungs of a ladder, mill that is.  Oh yeah, the laddermill, with its rungs that fly.  The downwind rungs pull up and away, the upwind rungs return to earth in a coasting manner with downward force limited by the need to remain upwind (limit downwind thrust) to stay away from the downwind section.  Seems like it could all be passive as far as controls.  Ockels and U Delfts have published some nice rederings of various embodiments.  It still seems puzzling that they never built one - at least one that I've heard of.  And don't forget, a sideways version was tested at Oak Creek windfarm in Tehachapi back in the '80's but unfortunately it broke.  It was pretty decent sized too I think, not just a miniature version.  But that one breaking doesn't necessarily mean someone couldn't get some version of it to work out.   Breakage can mean at least you were making some power, a starting point even if reliability is not yet perfected. When landscaping I often dream of a laddermill-like device with blades, that shoots out of a gun that you hold with both hands, for weed control.  Crowd control? :)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12257 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Rung wings
DougS, 
        Not quite.  Your statement: "The downwind rungs pull up and away"
indicates that either I did not describe well enough or you did not catch the matter, or a mix; but the matter was covered earlier in forum as well as indicated on the image just posted. My rung wing scheme does not have "downwind rungs"  but rather has only crosswind rung wing flying; in the option of loop, the up flying and the down flying rung wings are neither going downwind nor upwind, but only crosswind, as the arrangement has the path of flying ever approximately perpendicular to the wind,  Note how the set of rung wings thus drop down from the main system tether set to a ground set.  This is very different from your late 1970s loop mill and also very different from Ockles loop mill. The rung wing set and each of its wings ever approximately over a small spot, nearly a point, on the ground, a projection of the zenith.  Only wind gradient and catenary on the rung-wing set tweaks minor offs from the perfect line that approximates a zenithal line from the aloft coupling to the main tether to the groundstation. We leave the robust lifter and the acute-angle main tether set to keep the rung wing set in the vertical position so that all the rung wings are doing crosswinding in their flight. Each wing is ever strained to best face its apparent wind as they do their lifting; on the down-going the same holds. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12258 From: dougselsam Date: 3/31/2014
Subject: Re: Rung wings
OK I see - got it.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12259 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Rung wings
Thanks, DougS, 
           A further farming method is 
1. For the simple non-loop rung wing:  Hang from main system tethers repeat drops of similar. 
2. For the looping rung wing: Hang from the main system tethers repeat loops with choice of one pulley point per unit or the method of using two pulley points per main-line connection in order to assure sepration for the down-driving sector of the loops. 

In such manner massive array is formed. Separations are to optimized to respect wakes and flow opportunities which depend on wing design and separation choices. So, both left and right filling and also downwind filling and massive vertical-space filling.  Active Cube with sparse-element flying-crosswind holey curtains!
Lift, 
~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12260 From: Massimo Ippolito Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
Clearly newbie comments.

1) The Carousel concept has the record of conversion speed with lighter forces that imply the best LCA. There are several scientific papers showing that gaining more rotation speed reduces the forces but not the conversion power.
2) There are no surges thanks to the reel control limit/clip near the optimal force, as defined in the design.
3) The supposed massive dimension and weight of the Carousel is 80% due to the alternator rings itself, necessary and unavoidable to convert the massive harnessed wind power into electricity. 
4) Speaking of upwards directions in the Carousel is the demonstration of a poor understanding of the concept.
4) The optional extra weight of the Carousel rotor is a cheap opportunity to stabilize the grid, like a flywheel.
5) All high altitude wind power concepts do not exist without a reliable path control: the idea of close-control difficulties is simply wrong. KiteGen has had both the multi-predictive autopilot and the Carousel simulator running since the beginning of our industrial scale initiative.
6) The self-endorsed mega open AWE is only a drag machine a hundred times less efficient than any lift machine, and does not belong to the high altitude wind exploitation system: it is only a noisy and disturbing initiative to exploit the growing wave around this valuable concept. 

I haven't the time to follow and correct all the rubbish produced here, so please stop this gibberish.
M.



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12261 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Festo - DualWingGenerator (Deutsch) (P. Crackpot)
Doug asked: "A "respectable study topic [wingmills] in aerospace"?  For whom?  Why?  "

Respectable to the AWES Forum, except to you, as the established anti-aerospace troll. Many of us bring our aerospace backgrounds to AWE, so we respectably discuss wings differently (You did not even know what a LE was in a wing discussion!).

Respectable in every aerospace department in the world, basic wingmill and ornithopter dynamics are part of the research and education. On the Forum we have reviewed flutter work at NYC, Kyoto, Caltech, and so on. You must not pay much attention to the topic, having to wonder like a newbie.

Just one new example at the top of search, note the respectable treatment-



What is not respectable at any of these schools is mentally unbalanced attacks on intellectual effort, in the form of "Professor Crackpot" BS. Every professor-type you have ever abused by name is your superior in both domain knowledge and manners.

Festo engineers are competent, and design to spec. If they were tasked with your challenge to create a wingmill for your backyard wind, it would be easy, but this is not a serious challenge.

Wind-tunnels  are just a tool to use as needed. Key specialists do "gravitate" to them, but this is only your primitive way of understanding why the Wrights or Boeing, etc. are compelled to adopt the tool.

I advocate testing to decide my final AWE downselect. You argue a-priori  for one pet design, the ST, without bothering with a serious testing  program. You only mock and cannot deliver.  Aerospace culture does not mock, but delivers.

Soft Wingmills are a more respectable AWE topic than the ST, based on scalability. Never have you shown any comprehension of why a massive rotating tower is not a respectable aerospace topic. Its you who cannot answer "for whom" or "why".


On Monday, March 31, 2014 9:52 AM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com" <dougselsam@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12262 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
Massimo,

Compared to JoeF, Goela, Wubbo, Culp, and me, you are the "clear" newbie in AWE. Your intellectual isolation, in the guise of "haven't the time"*, is well established as well.

Please publicly share the carousel "scientific papers" you refer to, so we can judge your claims properly. Where is a technical specification for us to study (power rating, diameter, weight, kite-area, altitude, etc.)? Expect the Forum to review your ideas as best we can, according to what you provide. For example, the suspect stem and side-slip methods need compeling statistical test data to convince our open-AWE world.

If you do not understand all the GW scale concepts loosely referred to as "Carousel Killers", then you are twice-over the newbie. These designs use the ground surface as a massive compressive work-plane, and industrial cableways to aggregate the power of many kites, instead of a giant rotating carousel. Many fundamental advantages are secured, including better kite spacing, with no downwind phase. You have not yet made any statement indicating you understand the "carousel-killer" concept-space, as long developed on this Forum. 

Expect many Forum concepts, like carousel-killers, and a mountain of revealed prior-art to effectively test your personal claim not to have overlooked any key AWE thinking in posing your patents to block open-AWE. No one outside of KiteGen seems to see you in the central AWE inventor role you self-proclaim,

daveS


* Massimo's standing answer to why he cannot attend even EU AWE conferences.











On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 8:47 AM, Massimo Ippolito <m.ippolito@kitegen.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12263 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Rung wings
A few notes-

These multi-wingmill concepts are also naturally accorded aerospace interest.

KiteLab designed, built, and tested several small-scale laddermill variants in 2008. The main operational problem was uncontrolled looping and twisting of the "ladder", which soon ended each flight test. The idea marginally worked, and can be tamed, but more radical flipwing and looping foil experiments then took precedence. The final laddermill prototype is stored at KiteLab Ilwaco.

The AWES Forum has identifed a crosswind horizontal laddermill that tacks back-and-forth (avoiding kite-processing at the anchors) as a promising upgrade of the concept (coincidental with Wayne's "vertical-blinds affair" AWES vision) CC 3.0.




On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 6:24 AM, "joefaust333@gmail.com" <joefaust333@gmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12264 From: Harry Valentine Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
There are many regions of the world where winds are predominantly uni-directional, such as most of the trade winds . . . . with perhaps 30-degree variation in direction. A kite-pulled cableway (alternative left-right pulling) or a Kite-towed ship with storage batteries can operate in such winds. The ship keel (and rudder) provides the necessary directional control

One trade wind that blows between equatorial east African and Northeastern India is the only one that reverses direction on a seasonal basis.

When winds are predominantly uni-directional, the carousel has no advantage over a sectional of straight railway line or a suspended cableway set perpendicular to the wind direction.


Harry

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: santos137@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 10:02:01 -0700
Subject: Re: [AWES] Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

 

Massimo,

Compared to JoeF, Goela, Wubbo, Culp, and me, you are the "clear" newbie in AWE. Your intellectual isolation, in the guise of "haven't the time"*, is well established as well.

Please publicly share the carousel "scientific papers" you refer to, so we can judge your claims properly. Where is a technical specification for us to study (power rating, diameter, weight, kite-area, altitude, etc.)? Expect the Forum to review your ideas as best we can, according to what you provide. For example, the suspect stem and side-slip methods need compeling statistical test data to convince our open-AWE world.

If you do not understand all the GW scale concepts loosely referred to as "Carousel Killers", then you are twice-over the newbie. These designs use the ground surface as a massive compressive work-plane, and industrial cableways to aggregate the power of many kites, instead of a giant rotating carousel. Many fundamental advantages are secured, including better kite spacing, with no downwind phase. You have not yet made any statement indicating you understand the "carousel-killer" concept-space, as long developed on this Forum. 

Expect many Forum concepts, like carousel-killers, and a mountain of revealed prior-art to effectively test your personal claim not to have overlooked any key AWE thinking in posing your patents to block open-AWE. No one outside of KiteGen seems to see you in the central AWE inventor role you self-proclaim,

daveS


* Massimo's standing answer to why he cannot attend even EU AWE conferences.











On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 8:47 AM, Massimo Ippolito <m.ippolito@kitegen.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12265 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: How the Rigid Wing enabled the Soft Parafoil
Hardly anyone debates Rigid v. Soft Wing in AWE anymore. Using the right wing in the right niche is what counts, and for safe cheap RAD, soft seems favored. But while the debate lasted, a rigid-wing superiority bias was that soft-wings were primitive, and rigid-wings the obvious pinnacle of wing evolution.

Soft and rigid wing kites are both ancient. Chinese legend purports rigid-wing as the primitive case. MoTzu's legendary First Kite was all wood, and soft silk and paper kites by Lu Ban came next. Two thousand years later, Jalbert, a pioneering aviator and kite expert, is flying his rigid-wing Bonanza, and experiences a Eureka Moment; he envisions a ram-air soft-wing to effectively duplicate the geometry of his rigid thick-wing. The winning virtue of thick wings (as discovered in NACA wind-tunnel testing of rigid foils) was high-lift more stably over a wide range of attitudes and velocities. Jalbert had liberated the thick-wing from the rigid-wing tyranny of excess mass and fragility. NASA took the lead in the soft-wing revolution, with the NPW integrating several advanced soft-wing trends (Barrish, Rogallo, etc.). These ultra-modern wings triggered the kite-sports revolution and drive most AWE R&D today. 

While rigid-wing tech cannot scale nearly as large as the soft-wings to come, it was a necessary aerospace study, underscoring the wisdom of "testing everything".
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12266 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
Harry,

The carousel's supposed advantage of operating nominally in any wind direction is not unique, and comes at a great cost. We seek a plausible similarity case and small-scale demos for carousel claims. We are never fooled by a Magenn by insisting on best engineering practices, even at the pure theoretic phase.

Modern airports use multiple runways in varied directions chosen to optimally match the local wind rose, with no carousel needed. The carousel therefore represents an absurd "rotating airport" concept solution, with many critical shortcomings. The carousel cycle is not pure crosswind, but has high parasitic losses on the upwind and downwind moving side (as a VAWT geometry).

AWES cableways and rails can be laid out much like airport runways (but orthogonally crosswind). Mobile cableways (like logging "yarders") can also be shifted about almost as easily as a carousel at far lower capital cost. The star-network cableway, with ski resorts and mines as similarity cases, can adapt to any wind rose,

daveS


On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 10:50 AM, Harry Valentine <harrycv@hotmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12267 From: Massimo Ippolito Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
Harry,
thanks for touching this topic.
first, KiteGen already patented the mere straight kite/railway before the Carousel.
But the Carousel concept is a great evolution, it has the advantage to provide a continuous cycle, the railway is virtually endless without the stress and the waste in time and energy of the continuous inversion.
At the end of each side of the straight railway the inertia of the shuttle mass could be adsorbed by the grid, but the following acceleration in the opposite direction will be in charge of the kite/ropes system.
The kite is ultralight and is easy to impose suddenly a changes of direction, the alternator system instead is quite heavy primarily for heat management.
Concentrating the generation in the sides with a cable-way is unpractical, this is clear when you try to technically dimension the components: main ropes, kite ropes, pulleys and rotating machinery.
Carousel is optimal also for unidirectional winds and could be reduced to the minimum unavoidable amount of material.
Remember that power is a force multiplied a speed. Handling forces is very expensive in terms of LCA, all winning energy system pay attention to this.
The cable-way is subject to a composition of traction that multiply the force, if you invent solutions to avoid that, you come back to the Carousel concept. 
M.
     


Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12268 From: Massimo Ippolito Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
Bright example of full lack of technical comprehension in a very good English.
M.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12269 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
Massimo,

You are seemingly not the first to invent straight cableways and railways for AWES use, so your patents in this regard look invalid. This is a big topic, and its worth reviewing carefully the prior art in upcoming posts.

Where is KiteGen carousel or railway progress? You need to make a convincing small-scale prototype of the carousel. KiteGen has spent many millions of other people's money on your vision, with many management missteps over the years. You cannot blame lack of carousel technical progress on AWES Forum opinion. KiteGen is losing the race to lead global AWE by its own social and technical limitations.

Be ready to compete with all other GW-scale AWES concepts out in the field, never mind vanity patent claims,

daveS






On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 12:21 PM, Massimo Ippolito <m.ippolito@kitegen.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12270 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Who really invented Cableway AWES?
Kites have always functioned as cableways, as kite line messengers in Asia and Polynesia are ancient and well known, as well as many Kite Golden Age (~19th cent) arrangements of pulleys and payloads (ie. Cody). Hargrave used a small cableway on poles set on a beach for an experimental kite platform. Many kite patents cover cableway-related art. Payne and McCutchen, '75, clearly depicted a crosswind kite cableway to drive groundgens. The idea has been well known and obvious for decades.

KiteGen is wrongly claiming priority to this basic AWES method, which is open and free to all.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12271 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

MassimoI wrote:"3) The supposed massive dimension and weight of the Carousel is 80% due to the alternator rings itself, necessary and unavoidable to convert the massive harnessed wind power into electricity."

A ring generator,having as linear speed as a small generator with higher rpm,should have the same weight. Why is it not the case? Is it due to mechanical constraints of building for a large piece? 

 

PierreB 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12272 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Cornell's WingMill
This wingmill wind tunnel project was over overlooked in presenting Cornell AE as a representative case of wingmills as a fully respectable aerospace topic-


This same oscillation mode is seen in the New Tech Kinetic Kite which KiteLab Austin converted to a toy AWES demo by adding a damping-force drivetrain like Cornell's.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12274 From: dougselsam Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
Dave S. you keep describing people as "isolated".  Not sure where you get that.  I think virtually everything you say is wrong.  You succeed at nothing but being a pain-in-the-ass.  Nobody believes anything you write.  Save it.  Sure Massimo is "isolated", I'm "isolated", everyone but you is "isolated", whereas you are, what, "in the loop"?  If anyone asks what you have flying today, making any power, all we get is more ranting and raving, bragging that you've tried more AWE than anyone on Earth.  What a bunch of crap.  I don't see anything serious emanating from you, sorry to say.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12276 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Straight tracks
Art involving straight tracks is invited to be posted in this topic thread. 
Allow "straight" to have curvature of the earth or the like. If the projection of the track is straight, then a bumpy track over hills or bump from point A to point B may be considered "straight."  Pocock was able to tack on straight segments of roads with smart use of his kited wings.    Straight tracks may be segments or sections of path that may have turnabouts.    It will be interesting to trace the use of straight path, tracks, rails, cableways in aviation, including its windpower sector.   Post and reference as is interesting to you. 

In mid-water, I start here with Fred Davison who seems to illustrate in 1971 that windpower knows about flying sails restrained by straight pathing governed by severe railing. 
http://www.energykitesystems.net/KitePatents/US/US3730643/index.html

  • Shows that straight tracks with turns for loop is established art. Not the first, but good illustration.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12277 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Straight tracks
Much after Lang's teaching on constrained straight pathing, we find 23.03.2011 as the stated date of realization by three: KITENERGY S.R.L. [IT/IT]; Via Livorno, 60 I-10144 Torino (IT) (For All Designated States Except US). FAGIANO, Lorenzo [IT/IT]; (IT) (For US Only). MILANESE, Mario [IT/IT]; (IT) (For US Only) https://www.google.com/patents/WO2012127444A1  where some straight pathing is used for windpower generation purposes:
First page clipping of WO2012127444 (A1)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12280 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Straight tracks
Its not very novel, but its a better crosswind geometry with a fraction of the moving structure of the full carousel, so its another "carousel killer". The KIS open-AWE full-COTS super-scalable rigger's solution is cable belay around an anchor circle; so we don't worry about blocking turret claims. 

This Northern Italian giant AWES turret patent war is to be enjoyed like an Torino old battle fresco by an aficionado, followed by an excellent meal. In this mural version, the Milanese's do not have the god-like secret of Massimo's "Leonardo Methodology" (Leo-in-a-bottle), so the battle is lost; but in more historical versions, KiteGen has no Leonardo Methodology to revolutionize AWE.


On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 4:14 PM, "joefaust333@gmail.com" <joefaust333@gmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12281 From: Harry Valentine Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Railway-Based AWES (update and review)
Possible to install cableways across valleys of coastal mountains or between mountain peaks that will provide high elevations for the cableways . . .  such installation would expose the kite(s) to more powerful winds using shorter tethers. Lots of locations around the world where winds that are mainly uni-directional blow off the ocean.


Harry


To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: santos137@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 12:58:59 -0700
Subject: Re: [AWES] Railway-Based AWES (update and review)

 

Massimo,

You are seemingly not the first to invent straight cableways and railways for AWES use, so your patents in this regard look invalid. This is a big topic, and its worth reviewing carefully the prior art in upcoming posts.

Where is KiteGen carousel or railway progress? You need to make a convincing small-scale prototype of the carousel. KiteGen has spent many millions of other people's money on your vision, with many management missteps over the years. You cannot blame lack of carousel technical progress on AWES Forum opinion. KiteGen is losing the race to lead global AWE by its own social and technical limitations.

Be ready to compete with all other GW-scale AWES concepts out in the field, never mind vanity patent claims,

daveS






On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 12:21 PM, Massimo Ippolito <m.ippolito@kitegen.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12282 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Straight tracks
While the Drachen Foundation site is apparently down for the recent hours, 
here is the 2004 published essay by David Lang: 
===============
Quote from the short essay:
 "Joe Hadzicki, of San Diego, is the father of the Buggy electrical generation scheme"
==========
Such matters then occur before the publication date of the Lang essay. 
Straight path was used, as DaveS indicated in a former note on this. 
==============
And Lang's essay noted: "Jose Sainz, of San Diego, who conceived the Sail power generating scheme,"
which was shown in drawing one may see ... as a user of a straight path. 
==============
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12283 From: dave santos Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: COTS Railway Couplings as compass-belay hardware solution
The problem is how to dynamically connect and disconnect massive AWES cableways around an anchor circle using only COTS components with strong similarity cases.

Railway couplings are a mature high-force quick-connect COTS technology. They could be used much as climber's carabiners or sailor's shackles, but for industrial-scale loads handled by machine. Such fittings can transfer huge loads around a circle by means of cables, without need for rails. Such fittings in alloy or composite versions could be used to create giant high-altitude kite trains. The novel AWES coupling applications would require mating alignment aids and comparable parts like giant pulleys and swivels.

The evolution of railway couplings is quite amazing, a key piece of the train-


CC 3.0
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12284 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: France: FR2667904 ... circa year 1990
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12285 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: France: FR2667904 ... circa year 1990
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12288 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/1/2014
Subject: Re: Positively-lifting tethers
Related: 
https://www.google.com/patents/US3224406 
 Underwater towing cable lift attachment
and 
https://www.google.com/patents/US5678504
Negative lift device for tow cable fairing

Having weathercocking faired tether allows mounting tiny wings along the tether to give positive-lifting tethers.
Such is employed upside-down for downing the tethers in towed paravanes.  Perfectly such in air could be interesting. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12290 From: stephane rousson Date: 4/2/2014
Subject: Voilier des Airs, c'est en septembre...!
Bonjour à tous,  ( for the English reading people..thanks to translate by google translate ) 

et oui, pas toujours facile de mettre en place de l’innovation en France surtout quand on est seul,  indépendant et sans un rond..

Les demarches administratives sont à la fois simple car tout existe, mais se compliquent vu la spécificité du projet qui concerne à la fois l’Aviation Civile, les Affaires Maritimes, les Préfectures terrestres et maritimes, les Mairies...

Aussi après discussions constructive suites aux diverses interdictions reçues,  je dois laisser à chaque administration le temps de traiter le dossier convenablement cela imposant des délais qui peuvent sembler long  afin de voler et innover dans le respect du droit français, je prends la décision de reporter le vol d’essai après le 12 septembre afin de   pouvoir effectuer le vol  dans un contexte météo et de navigabilité confortable, dans une ambiance sereine et sans gêner à la sécurité des plaisanciers estivants.

Nous cherchons toujours un ou des mécènes .

et comme il faut bosser un peu voici mon flyers Publicitaire , n hésitez pas à en parler autour de vous, je suis un tout jeune auto entrepreneur !!!  

( je suis toujours interdit de travailler comme Capitaine ( délivrance de mon brevet bloqué et sans réponse depuis plus d’un an…. ) et comme spécialiste en ballon dirigeable..mon nom ayant été écarté de la feuille de route du Ministre Montebourg sur les financements de projet de ballons dirigeables alors que je suis un des rares pilote et constructeur en France ayant prouvé ses compétences ( voir projet horus … )

Y  aurai t’il des pressions suite à mon dépôt  de plainte pour escroquerie au Tribunal de Grande Instance de Nice contre Zodiac et Cs systèmes ? 

<Bizarre non…que je soit interdit de travailler en France dans mon domaine de prédilection ? 

en attendant Septembre, à suivre cet été le nouveau sous-marin E-scubster et la poursuite de la restauration de la Pilotine Aeroceanographe "trait d-union »  à villefranche sur mer durant l’été.


Voici les derniers Medias : Télé 7 jours ( avec une grosse erreur qui sera corrigée aux prochains numéros..car je ne pédale plus !  je vélivole ! ) 


A paraitre :
info pilote, Petit journal de Saint-jean -Cap Ferrat


2 très belles photos des essais avec les pilotes de Nice par Yoann Obrenovitch de Mouv-up ( photographe Officiel ) Illustrant le travail et le temps passé au téléphone…

à très bientôt,

--
  @@attachment@@
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12292 From: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com Date: 4/2/2014
Subject: New file uploaded to AirborneWindEnergy
Hello,

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Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12293 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/2/2014
Subject: Off-Topic Archive
Off-topic personals will be archived in Files. Thanks for
1. Removing unused tails of prior posts when responding. Notice the edit tools online. There is a <<; and a return of formatting with 2. Take a moment and remove message tails. Help make the forum efficient.
3. Take a moment and notice that your post will be possibly read by the current 180 members AND THE FUTURE 30,000 members as well as visitors from around the world for all time.
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Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 12294 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 4/2/2014
Subject: Re: Airborne Seaborne Wind Energy System (WheelWind)
FR2975445A1.pdf  copy in our space for convenience