"If anyone can do comparable work with less tethers, please explain how."

Tudelft, Makani, Ampyx,Windlift,Skysails has only one anchor and one line (sometimes two lines for control). The forum should not discuss unworkable ideas endless.

 

PierreB

Blade addition could boost wind turbine power up to 20%

http://www.windpowerengineering.com/design/mechanical/blades/blade-addition-boost-wind-turbine-power-20/

GaborD,

 

Is it a trap to cause a crisis of DougS's crackpotism?

 

PierreB

For towered sisters from Broadwind Energy, Inc  website: 

Well you guys are finally catching on.
You are starting to see, Professor Crackpot is EVERYWHERE, especially in wind energy.  Almost every such press release is a lie.  Lies, lies, and more lies.  Like saying these would be used on small wind turbines, becuase small wind turbine are sold at Lowes.  What turbine is sold at Lowes?  The Bergey 10 kW turbine, like the one outside my window, powering this message.  What kind of blades does it have?  Pultruded blades with a constant, steep setting angle, a super-wide chord at the tip, and an ultra-high-lift porpoise-shaped airfoil.  It scacely resembles a "normal" wind turbine blade, and I doubt that any such modification could enhance its performance.  But, no matter, details are beyond the professor's view - he's too busy being "a genius"!
They say these "deflectors" could also improve hydroelectric plants, boat propellers, airplane wings, and helicopters.  Wow, the future of EVERYTHING!  (What about computer muffin fans?)  But, you may note, conveniently, absolutely NO details are provided, no diagram showing how it works though they show a diagram that does NOT show how it works, while saying it shows how it works.  This author, Paul Dvorak, is a friend of mine, formerly with "Machine Design" magazine, who have covered SuperTurbine(R) in the past, by the way.  he sometimes just "goes along" with such press-release news, just to offer more reading material and to offer an open forum, but he really knows better too.
Existing blades will already be designed to have the right amount of material to support the overall blade weight.  Whatever these additions to a blade consist of, will have weight.  That weight could be used to simply make the blades longer.  Longer blade give more power, and no study is needed to confirm that fact, but the extra weight will require more laminations near the root to support that weight - nothing is free.  This is why wind turbine blades never use T-shaped wingtip thingy's on the tips, though the good professor has certainly tried very hard to get them to adopt wingtip thingy's... (You can just imagine, right?  With the beard, the glasses in need of cleaning?)
All I can say is, stay tuned.  Wait 10 years and see how Professor Crackpot's "blade deflectors" have revolutionized aviation, hydroelectric power, and, oh yeah, don't forget, wind energy.  And I guess that includes "airborne wind energy" - the "deflectors" could be added onto reeling kites, right?  (Professor Crackpot squared?)  Or maybe used to improve the performance of a glider in-and-out of the jet stream, liquifying air for use on the ground.  That might also be a GREAT use of whatever this mystery component is.
Here's what the excitement is all based on:
“We are very excited about the data obtained from recent laboratory-scale tests and can’t wait to perform larger scale experiments to demonstrate the full potential of this technology.”
Whoopee-doo.  I say, yes, this is "Professor Crackpot".  Note the number of multi-letter agencies listed as though to verify credentials, even to the point of discussing a guy's "interests", yet they offer no diagram of how it works.  That is DEFINITELY a Professor Crackpot tendency.  I say, YES, this is "Professor Crackpot", and you will never see these things, whatever they are, on wind turbines.
Newsflash!  Professor Crackpot has a new invention that will revolutionize wind energy, but he just... can't... really..., you know, discuss any details at this point.  Mmmmmm Hmmmmm..... How stupid can people be to believe this crap over and over again, year after year?  Do they never look back?  "Duh-huh!  Hey Kidth!  Don't touch that dial!  Thtay tuned, for... The Professor Crackpot Show!  Today, we're going to quadruple the profitth of windfarmth!"
:))))))))))))))))))
I looked up this company and I think their blade surface plasma generator would be more likely to ever find an actual use, although again, I'm offered no details by their description, and no information indicating HOW it works or even IF it works.  The company supposedly has three (3) separate technologies to improve wind turbine blades.  If they really had ONE technology that worked, they would not be chasing 3 separate technologies.   They would be too busy with the one that worked.  Wa, wa, wa...

This same basic press-release has been around since the beginning of wind energy.  "More wind at higher heights, a "new program" to develop taller towers" (yawn).  Yes, towers keep getting taller.   Companies with "new" tower technologies come and go, with no effect.

WhatsUp?    Rise 2013 scholar explores AWE

Spelling correction to : Taneisha Gordon

I'd recommend they test Pacific fish for radioactivity.  Nobody seems to be monitoring such an obvious vector for radiation exposure.  Why is that?
Darden Restaurants (Olive Garden, Outback Steakhouse, etc.) is in the process of spinning off the Red Lobster chain of seafood restaurants, due to recent lack of interest in seafood due to Fuku.  Shi, ma-.

" "We have sold a few of these kites to other people and I would urge them to get the lines checked out.""   Two-liner loses one line and falls.  See posted message here.

Recalling: 

Hi Joe:  It's sad to see such a childlike, subjective mindset, once again acting as though this author's understanding that the world is about to cook us to well-done is a fact, and everyone who has any other opinion is somehow mentally stunted and ignorant.  I've been studying ice ages since I was a kid.  I used to go to a special summer camp where we would go on field trips to study the effects of a former mile of ice on our local geology in upstate NY.  There's not much anyone can tell me about ice ages that I didn't already know as a kid, younger than when I learned about wind energy.
If there are ANY basic FACTS about ice ages, the most pertinent ones are:
1) We're in an ice age now, currently enjoying an "interglacial" period, which normally last about 10,000 years
2) This current "interglacial" period is about 12,000 years old, so we are overdue for re-glaciation
3) The Milankovitch cycles say it;s time for the next glacial period.
4) Glacial periods on average last 90,000 years, so we are glaciated 90% of the time.
So, beginning with those simple, undeniable SCIENTIFIC FACTS, how could anyone be worried about warming, when we're overdue for a re-freeze???
Besides that, maybe he doesn't realize, oil companies fund clean energy.  They lobby for it.  And the oil companies are behind the bans of drilling on federal lands. Why?  Anything that raises energy prices favors oil companies.  Restricting drilling raises oil prices.  That is the real reason why former energy secretary Chu and Obama agreed that we "NEED" $5 gasoline. Who needs $5 gasoline? The people?  No, the oil companies.  And clean energy people.  Oil companies and clean energy are incestuous twins, both benefit from energy scarcity and high energy prices.  Do you think that newsmaking oil spills are accidents?  Follow the money: they are used to restrict drilling.  Jusyt think about it. Have a spill, restrict drilling, restrict who can ship oil, and basically monopolize the energy market under conditions of artificial scarcity.   Anyone actually IN the field of clean energy realizes quickly that ANY and ALL energy companies of ANY KIND favor HIGH energy prices.  When oil went up to $160/barrel, clean energy people were drooling!  It was a clean energy FEEDING FRENZY based on high petroleum prices, which both oil companies and clean& green companies BOTH benefit from.  If you know real wind energy companies, many of them, big and small, are also into oil drilling.  They are energy companies and they benefit from scarcity and high prices. In some cases, it seems as though the game is rigged.  Remember 99-cent gas in 1999?  That was good for "the people". Drive all day on $5, and the economy boomed.  Everyone had a job.  Oil prices rose, and we immediately went into a recession, though the oil companies made out like bandits.  Same with the 2008 recession:  Oil prices went thru the roof, the economy tumbled, and the people making money were in energy, clean or otherwise.  The oil companies fund the environmental movement like Brer Rabbit says "Don't throw me in the briar patch!" when really that is the rabbits perfect escape.  Yeah, sure, oil companies sabotage clean energy, right.  One of the largest wind turbine maintenence firms is run by a guy who also owns a bunch of oil wells.

Attachments :

In short description and on review-by-anyone hot seat is this entry: 

Hello Joe:  This was a cryptic posting, and I'm struggling to understand what you mean.  Are you referring to anything we can look up?  Anything you've seen?  Anything that's been announced?  Is this something you heard somewhere?  I have no idea what your post means.  Can you please clarify?  Thanks
:)
Doug S.

I found skybow delivering very little torque when we tried coupling one to a small generator.  Couldn't get it to spin a generator actually, but it was only one try, with one generator..
We used to joke about coupling a small backpack SuperTurbine(R) to a weed-whacker.
Try a skybow weed-whacker.  Plenty of weeds to practice on, and if you run out, mow the sod farm. :) Doug S.

Thanks, Doug. 

Explore the SkyBow as the tether to a lifting kited wing.

I'm amazed to hear another buzzword from actual wind energy here.  I think we're up to 3 now, in 3 years.  A couple years ago, it was the Betz coefficient.  Then we heard Reynolds number mentioned.  Now the term windrose has been introduced.  I got so tired of windroses years ago (sigh) but yeah, they are a great graphical representation of a wind resource.
:)

OK you mentioned the word "helicopter", so I am trying to figure that one out as a start.

Isn't that what Dave S. just did?

Ok I've never heard Makani was now pursuing a "helicopter" of any kind.
I was under the impression that the geniuses at Makani had moved beyond mere rotors.  They have a kite, and their genius stroke is to "only use the blade tip", no?  And that genius step was combined with another genius step: using auxilary propellers mounted on the blade to make the power.  What happened to ALL THAT GENIUS?  Years of sheer genius, and how many millions of dollars?  And now they are what, completely abandoning it? After all those press-releases they're completely giving up on their double-genius configuration, or what?  Is that why they killed Corwin?  he still wanted to fly kites?  I'm getting more confused every time I hear more bizzle-shizzle about McConney.  Maybe that;s the answer: It's ALL bizzle-shizzle(?).   I've tried to call Makani for 1.5 years now, since their founder mysteriously died.  In that year and a half. I have not gotten a single call answered, and we still have no explanation for the mysterious passing.  Other than that, I have heard nothing about McConney, yet Joe posts an incomplete statement of which I have no idea what he is talking about, yet he asks for feedback.  How can anyone give feedback on such a cryptic posting?  It means next to nothing - a few buzzwords strung together.  I am puzzled.  What is the latest Makani machine like (now)?  Where did anyone find out this information?  Here's my take on McConney (and your own latest adventures):
1) They switched from figure-8's to circles  (3000 years old)
2) They add at least one opposing blade (2000 years old)
3) start taking the power from the center instead of auxilary propellers (3000 years old)
4) stack 'em (relatively new)

With regard to your kite in a circle:
1) add opposing kite (2000 years old)
2) stack 'em (relatively new)
3) take power from the center (3000 years old)
With regard to your skybow:
1) add a generator (120 years old)
2) add rotors (2000 years old)
In all cases, the apparatus is trying to become a SuperTurbine(R), if only people would let it become what it wants to be.
:) Doug S.

Hey Joe:
I tried to read this document of over 200 pages, but it seems to say essentially NOTHING at any given point when I attempt to skim it.
I have generators to fabricate and ship - can't read failure documentation all day.  Just skimming, I cannot discern any meaning whatsoever, just a collection of parts catalog pages.  Looks like a whole lotta blah blah blah to me.
What is this helicopter stuff you are talking about?  Do you want to use English and explain what you're talking about, or are you just going to keep making us guess?
:)
Doug

Good, DougS. 

No. DaveS and Ed Sapir had a main tether to the lifting kited wing. To that tether at a some mid-tether point was a placement of the start of one of two ends of the SkyBow flipwing; the connection point formed one of the two anchors of the SkyBow; immediately from that point the SkyBow wing initiated a downwind positioning that dented downwindly the main lifter-tether.  Then the essential other anchor of the SkyBow was held by the hands of a person positioned on the ground.