Messages in AirborneWindEnergy group.                           AWES11479to11530 Page 126 of 440.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11479 From: dave santos Date: 2/9/2014
Subject: Re: Mothra for towing icebergs

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11480 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/9/2014
Subject: FR2381921 (A1) in year 1977 by Ange RATTIN

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11481 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Mothra for towing icebergs

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11482 From: Rod Read Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying [1 Attachment]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11483 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying [1 Attachment]

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11484 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: AWES Museum || New room notice: KiteTails

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11485 From: Rod Read Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11486 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11487 From: dave santos Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Mothra for towing icebergs

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11488 From: dave santos Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11489 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Kite Engines

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11490 From: Rod Read Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11491 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Mining energy from vehicle suspension systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11492 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Mining energy from vehicle suspension systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11494 From: Rod Read Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Mining energy from vehicle suspension systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11495 From: Rod Read Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11496 From: Rod Read Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11497 From: dougselsam Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Mining energy from vehicle suspension systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11498 From: dougselsam Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Towards the realization of a rotating AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11499 From: Rod Read Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Mining energy from vehicle suspension systems

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11500 From: Harry Valentine Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Towards the realization of a rotating AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11501 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Towards the realization of a rotating AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11502 From: dave santos Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11503 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Pierre's concept and drawing for one type of rotating AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11504 From: Rod Read Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11506 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Towards the realization of a rotating AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11507 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Pierre's concept and drawing for one type of rotating AWES

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11508 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: TRL Technical Readiness Levels

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11509 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Kite as energy-storage device?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11510 From: markbrinsden Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Kite as energy-storage device?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11511 From: Rod Read Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: trolley track

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11512 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Kite as energy-storage device?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11513 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Kite as energy-storage device?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11514 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Kite as energy-storage device?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11515 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: trolley track

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11516 From: dave santos Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Will EU Pull Together for H2020 AWE R&D?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11517 From: dougselsam Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Professor Crackpot is everywhere: Danger!

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11518 From: dougselsam Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Will EU Pull Together for H2020 AWE R&D?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11519 From: Harry Valentine Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Professor Crackpot is everywhere: Danger!

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11520 From: dougselsam Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Professor Crackpot is everywhere: Danger!

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11521 From: Rod Read Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Will EU Pull Together for H2020 AWE R&D?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11522 From: dave santos Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Earning the Forum Troll Award

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11523 From: dave santos Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Pumped-Hydro AWES Concept

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11524 From: benhaiemp Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Will EU Pull Together for H2020 AWE R&D?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11525 From: Rod Read Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Will EU Pull Together for H2020 AWE R&D?

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11526 From: dave santos Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Professor Crackpot is everywhere: Danger!

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11527 From: AirborneWindEnergy-owner@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Management report

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11528 From: Rod Read Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Superturbine Mothra Mash up

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11529 From: Rod Read Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Superturbine Mothra Mash up

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11530 From: Rod Read Date: 2/13/2014
Subject: Re: Superturbine Mothra Mash up



Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11479 From: dave santos Date: 2/9/2014
Subject: Re: Mothra for towing icebergs
JoeF (and Pierre),

A tall arch that reaches better wind pinches less (even pulls apart, by inflation pressure). A shorter arch is not so favored, except for a dubious iceberg pinching-power advantage.

Pierre seems to have missed key kite arch concept descriptions. The ground anchor-field acts as a giant yaw-stabilizing "kite-bar" for a kite arch. A dangerous temporary anchor like a melting iceberg is hardly a reliable "kite-bar", like a nice hay farm.  He is also convinced there is not enough land available for AWE, so he therefore favors offshore solutions. 

kPower's kFarm is at the Southern end of the North American Great Plains. We see vast grasslands with world-class wind suited for AWE, offering superior arch anchoring. We are convinced its better to proceed to develop kite arches on land, rather than merely dream about offshore icebergs as the arch killer-app.

If Pierre was wise to the real challenges of AWE R&D, he would worry about our team safety; advising us not to hurry, rather than unfairly complaining that Mothra validation is unfinished. Scaling-up pioneering AWE methods to utility-scale is slow dangerous work. Pierre can speed it up by helping solve the challenges, or slow it down by not understanding, and demanding constant repetition of already shared knowledge,

daveS
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11480 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/9/2014
Subject: FR2381921 (A1) in year 1977 by Ange RATTIN




Page bookmarkFR2381921  (A1)  - 
DISPOSITIF ET SON INSTALLATION
POUR CAPTER L'ENERGIE CINETIQUE DU VENT
Inventor(s):
Applicant(s):RATTIN ANGE [FR] +
Classification:
- international:F03D11/04; F03D7/02; (IPC1-7): B64B1/50; B64F3/00; F03D11/04; F03D7/04; F03D9/00
- cooperative:
Application number:FR19770006341 19770225 
Priority number(s):FR19770006341 19770225
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11481 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Mothra for towing icebergs

DaveS,

 

"The ground anchor-field acts as a giant yaw-stabilizing "kite-bar" for a kite arch." it is the reason why orientation face to wind changes needs a huge expensive system, while the spaced out anchors can take an advantage for towing an iceberg.

" He is also convinced there is not enough land available for AWE, so he therefore favors offshore solutions. "

Except in deserts or maybe between mounts. It is possible if electrical AWES are implemented, it will be in the reverse sense than for conventional turbines: offshore then onshore when (if) the safety will be enough to make some other use of land used. 

"Pierre can speed it up by helping solve the challenges..."It is what I try to make by giving a possible way for Mothra and explaining why it is not adapted for electrical production, what you confirm with the absence of description or/and drawing of how the generator works, in spite of numerous hollow sentences.

 

PierreB

 



 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11482 From: Rod Read Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying [1 Attachment]
Thanks for the higher resolution imaging Ed... Keep them coming.
It really does help for the rest of us trying to understand the configuration of terms.

Kite Ship OL                (Single skin, 3 line kite seen in green)
being flown from a
kPower pilot station     (6 Post protected piloting area allowing mechanical anchoring and control beyond human power) 
through a
kPTO                         (Where the kite control lines run through a trolley carriage, The trolley carriage is free to run on a tight crosswind cableway, the trolley carriage also tows a power output line parallel to the cableway)
along a crosswind cable-way. 

Notice the "dog stake" method of flying; 
                                 (Where the pilot is downwind of the trolley carriage)
this enables the pilot to easily relaunch the kite without a long walk. 
Note also the double drive kite engine
                                (double drive kite engine takes a stroke input from 2 directions as demonstrated on youtube)
in the foreground


Dave S ... you mentioned in another post...

If xxxxx was wise to the real challenges of AWE R&D, he would worry about our team safety; advising us not to hurry, rather than unfairly complaining that Mothra validation is unfinished. Scaling-up pioneering AWE methods to utility-scale is slow dangerous work. xxxxx can speed it up by helping solve the challenges, ...

I agree.
And I'm going to share a few safety concerns of my own.

I like how the dog tie method compresses the footprint of AWES land coverage. There are a couple of obvious safety points to dislike about it though.
1 The pilots are sitting downwind of kite tensioned gear. Neither of you looks comfortable nor assured.
2 This method effectively doubles the line tension acting on the cableway trolley carriage. Two sets of tensed kite lines around the pulleys pulling downwind. Some of the single point failure modes I can imagine would be UNKIND.


In the mix of demands from footprint and streamtube efficiency
I'm sure we can find schemes with safer working and as efficient wind energy conversion.
The idea of driving a large circular cableway or driving on a large circular cableway, obviously improves weathercocking ... but leaves little room for generation stroke given the demands on the flight window and the weight implications..

A mix mix of system ideas may end up looking like this

A short control board shuttling across a broad segment of a circle. Carriage mounted pulleys at the extremes of segment and a minimal 1 more carriage at the upwind tether are linked to ride on the circle as weathercocking dictates. Power take off is in the centre, driven by the board pulling a light tensed rope loop through the pulleys.

Most of my schemes now come down to having a good linked set of tube riding cuffs (or rail riding carriages) on a stretched circle.

CC3.0 NC BY SA

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11483 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying [1 Attachment]
Kite arch set at alpha holding strands torqued cables?   Or stranded between two kite arches?  Or set on a series of kite arches with a set of strands sharing two arches.   Long downwind farm?  CC3.0 NC BY SA  ~JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11484 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: AWES Museum || New room notice: KiteTails

AWES Museum announces a new room:
 KiteTails 

with preamble spaces and public forum space. 


Visits and participation with energy in mind is invited. 


  • What is the future for the kite-energy industry with respect to tail systems of kite systems?

  • What is the future for the task-completion-by-kite industries with respect to tail systems of kite systems?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11485 From: Rod Read Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying

Guess what I'm going to ask for now to clear up that AWE description?
thanks JoeF

Roderick Read
15a Aiginish
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB
kitepowercoop.org

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11486 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying

Please clarify, Rod. 

I am not sure of the meaning of your question. 

Do you want us to guess about your are "going to ask" ?

What AWE description is in your focus?


The prior post of mine in this topic thread hopefully implied that the cliffs of the valley were to be replaced by the side region of kite arches; the torque tubes would be end-supported by the kite arch system, one or more arches could be involved. 

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11487 From: dave santos Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Mothra for towing icebergs
Pierre,

You wrote: "...orientation face to wind changes needs a huge expensive system."

You guess wrong about KiteLab anchor-field economics. No known solution is cheaper.

The huge part is the Earth itself, the same kite-field land cost every team faces. We lease kFarm at low cost (a partner owns it), and are poised to buy it in a next round of funding (10k USD per acre).

The hardware to compass belay Mothra is just some added rope and a couple of pulleys. The anchor field for Mothra was very cheap to make. Each 10-ton rated anchor point cost less than 100USD. A worm-drive winch and come-along cost about 100USD. The 100ft main cableway cost 150USD. Total cost was below 1000USD.

In fact, we invented the anchor-field to out-compete all the better funded teams with expensive vehicles (Makani, TUDelft, Enerkite,USWindLift, KitEnergy, Swiss Kite Power, etc.). We got the design flexibility of multiple anchors for less than the cost of anyone's single anchor.

If you imagine kPower's team needs to chase icebergs in polar seas, its just not in the plan. Someone else will have to show that icebergs are a rational application, but thanks for trying to offer helpful ideas,

daveS


On Monday, February 10, 2014 12:36 AM, Pierre BENHAIEM <pierre.benhaiem@orange.fr
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11488 From: dave santos Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying
Rod,

Thanks for the ace comments. There is no special sense of doom at the dog-stake downwind pilot station. The kite is just out of reach, and if it did part, it would likely promptly collapse, due to sudden loss of multi-line trim. The unease is mostly dog-stake novice "mind-*#@!" and dirty prototype ergonomics. The Monster Bar is an inhuman device and needs to be made more friendly for long sessions. In any case, we are onto passive-control once again.

If Pierre saw your latest linked video, he glimpsed some of the diverse team work being done to share how the Kite Engines work. You have done a wonderful job modeling and improving them, as has JeremyC of Kitebot. Ed has shared close-up videos and photos of the actual machines in action, and will post  many more. JoeF maybe could assemble all the DIY kite-engine sources in one link page. Anyone can then see how hard the open-AWE cooperative movement now works, and tries to share everything (no one does more).

AWEfest is currently counting on as many as two dozen unique DIY kite engine prototypes*, mostly made form bike and exercise components, dating from 2007 (early KiteLab Group). All of them worked, and the latest are simply more evolved.

A concept to further explore is how arches can host arrays of COTS parafoil cells on ganglines. The COTS nature of Mothras and sport-kites can come together very fast, once an exact rig is chosen. Somebody soon show how the tensile circular track works in some quickie demo, since its not COTS, nor proven like the basic compass belay. Its surely doable, but does not seem to exist, unlike all the other pieces,

daveS

* There are about 100 smaller AWES prototypes in our circle, but too small for AWEfest event needs.


On Monday, February 10, 2014 3:17 AM, Rod Read <rod.read@gmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11489 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Kite Engines
Up on hot seat is the new text on a new page:  Kite Engines


Thanks, 
  JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11490 From: Rod Read Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying
Joe F You answered exactly what I needed thanks... but using words not the picture I was after as ever.
Dave S, cool any time, take care etc.
how arches can host arrays of COTS parafoil cells on ganglines... you know I've been v keen on that scheme for ages...

I may even go re sew some of my own.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11491 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Mining energy from vehicle suspension systems
Energy is being mined from road-vehicle suspension systems. 

Have kite actuate an inverted suspension system and use the technology
being developed for mining energy from road-vehicle suspension systems
to net some kitricity.

Just on the road-vehicle suspension system is this tease (pay for view of full article which I did not do) abstract:
http://www.inderscience.com/offer.php?id=55804  Energy harvesting from suspension systems using regenerative force actuators   by Farbod Khoshnoud; Dinesh Babu Sundar; M.N.M. Badi; Yong K. Chen; Rajnish K. Calay; Clarence W. De Silva
International Journal of Vehicle Noise and Vibration (IJVNV), Vol. 9, No. 3/4, 2013. 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11492 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/10/2014
Subject: Re: Mining energy from vehicle suspension systems
The university is serving the paper: 
Energy harvesting from suspension system using 
regenerative force actuators 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11494 From: Rod Read Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Mining energy from vehicle suspension systems
Where they find the best response (Using regenerative actuators which are composed of linear DC motors) is in high frequency
This best correlates to a tensed single line flip-wing buzzing style motion

Whereas if you look to recover energy from the low frequency side sweep of a massive array (as in the multiple soft kites hosted under a mothra) You're better off driving a large fluid volume from a closed system reversible stroke actuator through a hydraulic motor...
Like some of my earliest sketches

CC3.0 NC BY SA

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11495 From: Rod Read Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying
Hold on a second Davey Boy Santos
Somebody soon show how the tensile circular track works in some quickie demo, since its not COTS, nor proven like the basic compass belay. Its surely doable, but does not seem to exist, unlike all the other pieces,
Why not just use a rotary overhead crane upside down. or any other annular extrusion with force angle handling properties and a suitable carriage for that matter.
We are now fully COTS again

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11496 From: Rod Read Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying
Or if you want it pre approved, rated for human safety and COTS
Roller Coaster Track Sections and minimal carriages

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11497 From: dougselsam Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Mining energy from vehicle suspension systems
Oh yeah, driving a hydraulic motor.  Like nobody has ever tried that.  Why do people just endlessly find distractions in wind energy?  "Hey, I've got an old idea!  Let's add as many useless intermediate systems as possible!"  Yes, useless intermediate systems!  That's the answer!

A couple days ago, I went out for a walk around the neighborhood with my girlfriend.  We passed one house with a big, sturdy tower about 20 feet tall.  It used to have a large vertical-axis wind turbine on top, but we noticed the pieces stacked in the backyard.  Yes, once again, Professor Crackpot's best efforts ended up broken after a good windstorm.

And the next house still has the base of a former Skystream from Southwest Windpower, the former largest manufacturer of small wind turbines, now bankrupt, after something like 80 million in green funding including a 10 million "investment" from GE Capital.
And you guys think, with no experience, you're gonna conquer wind energy from your chair?
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11498 From: dougselsam Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Towards the realization of a rotating AWES
Pierre:
Counter-rotating co-axial rotors is a fairly typical armchair inventor's stab at "making a difference" in wind energy.
Take my "predecessor's" project, also funded by the ESIG of the CEC.
His project was to show how much better two counter-rotating rotors would capture energy, by recovering the energy lost to wake vorticity, but also, of course, like the rest, to "reduce the generator size by doubling the relative rotational speed".
Only thing is, he never quite got around to making that generator.  Nah, why bother with that essential step, right? Just use two regular generators, and hypothesize about how it "would have been" or "could have been", if he had actually built what he talked about, which he didn't.  Nope, that wouldda been too hard.  So anyway, I don't remember the actual results, but they were lackluster if not worse than expected.  Nothing ever came of it, as usual.   The funding agencies were a lot more impressed with my SuperTurbine(R) project.  Of all the people who have proposed this counterrotating generator concept, I'm not aware of a single one that has actually built such a generator.  I think that is where the idea, while valid, typically falls on its face.  People start saying "Geez we would have to add slip rings, and we don;t even know how to make a regular generator, let alone one with a spinning "stator"".  Shizzle, let's forget it - this project would require people who actually know what they're doing! 
Another aspect that hits one who practices the art of wind energy is this: "We already are running our generator at the peak of its ability to dissipate heat.  If we doubled the relative rotation, we'd have 4 times the power, and just cook that generator real quick."  So there's that.  So the reality of counterrotating generators has been:
1) It's too much of a pain in the butt for Professor Crackpot, who prefers off the shelf components, if any, to even consider actually building...
2) If he ever did bother to build it, he might quickly find himself endlessly burning out generators.
So go ahead and build one, and, if you ever did, I think you might be the first to actually do it rather than just talking about it.
:)
Doug S.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11499 From: Rod Read Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Mining energy from vehicle suspension systems

Fair enough. You've got a point.
If we're going to go on about wasted materials and excess components....
Hub
Even worse would be a massive long extra strong heavy hub

Roderick Read
15a Aiginish
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB
kitepowercoop.org

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11500 From: Harry Valentine Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Towards the realization of a rotating AWES
Doug &Pierre,


Many years ago (early 1950's), some large aircraft used counter-rotating propellers

Volvo-Marine used counter-rotating propellers on high-speed marine craft.

While the idea of counter-rotating rotors appears attractive, wind speeds may be too low to gain any significant benefit . . .  . .  other than to neutralize torque reaction on the tower.

Harry

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: dougselsam@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 07:41:56 -0800
Subject: [AWES] RE: Towards the realization of a rotating AWES

 
Pierre:
Counter-rotating co-axial rotors is a fairly typical armchair inventor's stab at "making a difference" in wind energy.
Take my "predecessor's" project, also funded by the ESIG of the CEC.
His project was to show how much better two counter-rotating rotors would capture energy, by recovering the energy lost to wake vorticity, but also, of course, like the rest, to "reduce the generator size by doubling the relative rotational speed".
Only thing is, he never quite got around to making that generator.  Nah, why bother with that essential step, right? Just use two regular generators, and hypothesize about how it "would have been" or "could have been", if he had actually built what he talked about, which he didn't.  Nope, that wouldda been too hard.  So anyway, I don't remember the actual results, but they were lackluster if not worse than expected.  Nothing ever came of it, as usual.   The funding agencies were a lot more impressed with my SuperTurbine(R) project.  Of all the people who have proposed this counterrotating generator concept, I'm not aware of a single one that has actually built such a generator.  I think that is where the idea, while valid, typically falls on its face.  People start saying "Geez we would have to add slip rings, and we don;t even know how to make a regular generator, let alone one with a spinning "stator"".  Shizzle, let's forget it - this project would require people who actually know what they're doing! 
Another aspect that hits one who practices the art of wind energy is this: "We already are running our generator at the peak of its ability to dissipate heat.  If we doubled the relative rotation, we'd have 4 times the power, and just cook that generator real quick."  So there's that.  So the reality of counterrotating generators has been:
1) It's too much of a pain in the butt for Professor Crackpot, who prefers off the shelf components, if any, to even consider actually building...
2) If he ever did bother to build it, he might quickly find himself endlessly burning out generators.
So go ahead and build one, and, if you ever did, I think you might be the first to actually do it rather than just talking about it.
:)
Doug S.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11501 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Towards the realization of a rotating AWES

Two sorts to be distinguished: 

===  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra-rotating_propellers


===  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-rotating_propellers


There are some notes in forum that mentioned  contra-rotating blades.  HERE.


It would be interesting to have Sky Windpower's notes on their lofted generators as well as their notes on their seeming avoidance of contra-rotating wings while employing counter-rotating wings. 

Makanki, the same. 


But Calverley's and Lang's notes on these matters would be interesting.  Skymill Energy.


~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11502 From: dave santos Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying
Suitably engineered "roller coaster track" would work, but its not pure-COTS cheap; it would be a major cost, far more than just a circle of anchor-points. Let NTS solve this one for us.

A rotating or fixed perimeter cable for snatch-blocks would be cheaper. The rocker bogie rollers that cableways use are like snatch blocks, as an industrial solution. The arch anchors would be secured to swaged points with J-hooks, as cable-cars attach. A rotating cable circle can be bull-wheel driven.

We are still short a dirt-cheap bench-top prototype version of a "Lazy-Susan" kite farm turret. Look to curtain tracks for a start. kPower has looked at utility-door roller-hangers, as a next scaling-step option; the track can be bent, and the attachment hardware is varied.

CC, etc.

Congratulations on the Brunel coup.


On Tuesday, February 11, 2014 4:59 AM, Rod Read <rod.read@gmail.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11503 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Pierre's concept and drawing for one type of rotating AWES

Pierre, the title you chose for the topic seems much larger than the topic of looking at your registered concept of a disk made up apparently of three blade sets giving two regions of electromagnetic electricity generation.  There are other rotating AWES that are distinct from your present topic. 


From your drawing:  The rotations of the three blade sets: inner and most exterior blade sets in one direction and the mid ring blade set going in the opposite direction. The wind and blades interact and the set pitch of the blade sets will give the desired rotations. My neighbor has a garden spinner that approximates the segmented disk, but really is three disks separated, but he does not damp the rotations with circumferential electricity generation; he just has the towered spin set for motion enjoyment and wind-direction indicating by its weathercocking.  The bending moment for same-disk segmentation and the generator stations probably will bring in relatively expensively mechanical challenges as hinted by DougS. 


Different from your concept, just for partial illustration: pd25311 - Premier Designs Wind Garden Large Rainbow Triple Spinner

Salad spinner, just for hint of a spinning part adjacent to a close circumferential ring: images.kitchenwaredirect.com.au/500px/OXO-Good-Grips-Salad-Spinner-with-Storage-Lid_1_500px.jpg
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11504 From: Rod Read Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Dog Stake Kite Flying
Yeah thought that'd wind you up. Roller coaster track can be saved for mommy bear sized works.

To mod the previous circle mount designs....
Two rings of pipe. Smaller one slung lower inside. Held to a spreader by a hard wearing sheet cuff. sheet cuff bolted through onto spreader. Spreader apex shackled to suspension drop line going to inter post suspension line.
Making a rigidised carriage with feet set to roller hold the pipes and roll over the cuffs is easily do-able with COTS bits...You force sets of wheels to clamp and ride pipe. (rocker bogies help over cuffs, a single would probably do) A link between the clamp set on one pipe to the matching other pipe set makes a short length scalable carriage ... just like roller coaster carriage wheels 
you only need 3 carriages per massive mothra rig. (maybe 2 with x tensioning carriage lengths)
It's much less material and more tensioned that roller coaster track... but it needs to hold BOG LOADS of tension if it's going to be safe and able to roll freely round.
I'm on the drawing...

NTS? What have the National Trust for Scotland got to do with it? Is there a deer walking enclosure design where a collared animal is tethered to a circular rail and allowed only to graze and run around the perimeter of a circular paddock?
If so, That'd be a great COTS.

I wouldn't be surprised if the National Theatre for Scotland had a circular gantry trapeze track  for their Networked Trampoline Squad to swing round on...That'd work too.

You're right leave it to NTS... No Time for Secrets.... who are they ? Networked Team of Systems engineers...

Curtain track is a cool model... a bendy extrusion able to take an enclosed carriage under tension ... That's not hard to scale up... garage door rail... awesome... 
A larger C shaped extrusion like Road Barrier Rail could house a carriage and be circularly pulled out toward posts by suspension cabling.

When I think of the battering a garage door takes round here... (note to my wee brother he he he, his didnae last a weekend)
Yeah they're a great idea.

Brunel yeah ... superb
Full steam ahead team gathering on OS AWE projects


Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11506 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Towards the realization of a rotating AWES

New summary page: http://www.energykitesystems.net/PierreBenhaiem/index.html with reach to your pages. 

=================================================

Situated different than your aim, yet a ring generator:  CA2739500  (A1)  -  RING GENERATOR
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11507 From: Pierre BENHAIEM Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Re: Pierre's concept and drawing for one type of rotating AWES

JoeF,

"The bending moment for same-disk segmentation and the generator stations probably will bring in relatively expensively mechanical challenges as hinted by DougS."All segment are separatly held by suspentes.

 

PierreB 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11508 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: TRL Technical Readiness Levels
Technology readiness levels (TRL)    [PDF file]  But reprinted hereon: 


HORIZON 2020 – WORK PROGRAMME 2014-2015
Extract from Part 18 - Commission Decision C(2013)8631 
G. Technology readiness levels (TRL) 
 
Where a topic description refers to a TRL, the following definitions apply, unless otherwise specified: 
 TRL 1 – basic principles observed 
 TRL 2 – technology concept formulated 
 TRL 3 – experimental proof of concept 
 TRL 4 – technology validated in lab 
 TRL 5 – technology validated in relevant environment (industrially relevant 
environment in the case of key enabling technologies) 
 TRL 6 – technology demonstrated in relevant environment (industrially relevant 
environment in the case of key enabling technologies) 
 TRL 7 – system prototype demonstration in operational environment 
 TRL 8 – system complete and qualified 
 TRL 9 – actual system proven in operational environment (competitive 
manufacturing in the case of key enabling technologies; or in space) 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11509 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/11/2014
Subject: Kite as energy-storage device?
Notes and essays regarding "kite as energy-storage device" would fit in this topic thread.

Start: 
The kinetic energy of a kite's moving wings is ready to do work. Such energy is stored until converted into other form's of energy. 

Have a kite system be integrated with masses that are beyond simple kite; operate the kite system to lift those masses to 1000 m altitude. Such system at altitude stores substantial potential energy. Put that energy to work in various ways. 

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11510 From: markbrinsden Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Kite as energy-storage device?

Does this deserve a stand alone entry? Wind power in general is used extensively to pump up hydropower storage systems. This is used a lot in Scandanavia. AWEs in themselves are not a method of storing energy but of supplying energy. Just a thought from an amature!

 
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11511 From: Rod Read Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: trolley track
Toward a lightweight weather cocking trolley track
http://youtu.be/MqE_6FRk6mw

Loads of to consider in this design
Underground anchoring / post insertion depths
rail twist implications.
improvements, tweaks, remodels.

Still not convinced having a beam design is any better than having roller coaster carriages running on parallel slung pipe tracks on a similar trampoline rig.

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11512 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Kite as energy-storage device?
Hi Mark, 
    Yes, conventional energy storage topics deserve topic threads dedicated for them, and mostly in other forums that specialize in those energy storage methods. AWES may be employed to store water at altitude (even when pumping from deep underground to ambient ground levels, etc. Specializing engineers will play their parts when AWES are up for hire to do the pumping. AWES forum invites getting the AWES ready for doing the pumping (and other energy conversions).  Our forum is not missioned to replace water-handling enegineers, we invite them to look to AWES for prime movers. 
     Then, specifically, a topic thread on just how kite systems store energy is with a mission to deepen the awareness of kite as well as its dynamics and statics and as well as its various plays. Store energy and use it later. How much later depends on the nature of the storage and the purposes. Just what one will do with a mastery of kite as energy storing device is a future thing; the masters will have a rainbow of story to tell. Getting to the mastery level on this topic will take some time; one day a book will be written just on "Kite as Storage Device" and its readers will be few or high count.  
    So, this topic thread would leave to elsewhere the kite as prime mover for pumping water to reservoirs or prime mover for driving an electric generator in order to store energy in an chemical-energy battery or ultracapacitor array; such conventional storage means will be standing fairly ready to receive AWES inputs; this forum is to get AWES going to do inputs to grids and various energy storage devices as well as to perform tasks, many of which will save from having to use fossil fuels.     Mark, indeed, even to be a converter of energies, there are transitional storings going on in the kite system; storage is transient and important and worthy of investigating; such transient storage of energy for quick use to format next steps in the whole process are to be understood for mastery, I propose. Just how the system momentarily stores energy in order to use the energy for the next step could be key matter as to efficiency, wear, strain, fatigue, and effects on system.  Each transient storage matter may become a "storage" topic fit for this topic thread.
    So, to continue the topic with another step: 
Lifting humans to high altitude points stores energy converted by the kite system upon interacting with the wind. Such stored potential energy may be stored for a minute, an hour, a day, a week, a month, etc. Then there are options to use that stored energy. The human may sky-dive from the altitude, wing-suit from the altitude, parachute from the altitude, hang glide from the altitude, pilot a powered aircraft from the altitude, enter other aircraft and go elsewhere, enter cable-transport ways at altitude. One would thank the kite for having stored the energy until the practical use of that energy was made. The kite may store the mass of entire airport or troop for later use. The kite may store at altitude an ounce of food or a ton of food for later use by occupants of the lifted living quarters or for later delivery to needy points in the sky or on earth's soil or at sea. Thank you, Kite, for storing such things until later use. 

~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11513 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Kite as energy-storage device?
Over-a-century-old kite-as-storage-device is in focus at the moment in this post. In light winds let out line gingerly as the wing set gets some distance from the anchoring arrangement; gradually wing set carries out considerable length of line, sometimes even letting the line touch earth or sea surface in the line sag. The system is storing minimal amount of energy as the wing set and line are not gaining much altitude and is being let downwind. Then the next step: take energy from the powered anchor set and haul in the let out line some; haul in at a rate that causes an apparent wind on the wing set that is used to have the wing set and line climb rapidly to higher altitude where winds are commonly stronger and more consistent than near ground or sea surface. The wing set and line store energy in such a process.   A next step could be to repeat a similar cycle, but in the next step the stored energy of the wing set and line set are used for a gliding action that can result in the wing set and line set going even greatly further downwind for a net result of getting more and more line out.  The new longer line out will then permit another climb cycle where even more energy may be stored in the wing set and line set, as there is more line to be used to permit the wing set and line set to reach even higher altitudes than in earlier cycles where perhaps even stronger winds might be reached. With such storage and use cycles, an AWES system may be launched to some working altitude, perhaps important for special works. Thank you, Kite System, for being able to be a storage device in such activity which may be a launching activity or a transport activity or a missioned storage activity or some specially characterized activity. 
     The above storage-of-energy activity was used by George Simpson in launching his AWES from the deck of a fishing trawler in 1905.  He used a steam engine to operate the hauling-line device; in weak winds he would use the above described method of storing energy in the wing and line set in order to get his AWES to better upper winds.   
 ~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11514 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Kite as energy-storage device?
Kite system as energy-storage device. A specific focus may be to have kite system store energy in the wing and then fully release the entire wing to use the stored energy for gliding, dropping, transport, delivery of people and goods, impact energy, etc. An example of this energy-storage story was in the kiting of huge wings that carried troops; sometimes the troopers would exits while still under kiting; but other times the wing would be released from tow and the wing would glide a further distance when then the troopers would exit by parachute. Another use of such energy storage that gained significant use was in the kiting up of wings for release to glide for experimenting with spacecraft-recovery devices. Similarly, the sport of the "Kitemen" used the stored energy to be used after release from being kited to altitude.   Just how far this method of storing energy and use of the energy by the released wing set is up to the creative powers of humans. 
  ~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11515 From: joe_f_90032 Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: trolley track
Nice, Rod. 
       An option to the catenary hold to the shown posts for pitch of the rail could be direct stay lines anchored into soil; when the tension of the flying line is over a station, then a direct stay line might be more fused to counter the main flying line and thus reduce warping moments in the rail.  Option. 
~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11516 From: dave santos Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Will EU Pull Together for H2020 AWE R&D?

The European Commission H2020 research and innovation program is a cornucopia of new science and technology funding. One AWE initiative, the Kite Power Cooperative, is assembling an open program proposal to bring together all the EU players willing to collaborate in comparative validation studies. Rod Read (Cc:ed) has already gotten provisional participation approval from two UK universities. Surely many small EU R&D teams, like VisVentis, can be counted on.

The big question: Will the bulk of the EU AWE community join in? Individual teams are preparing or still considering isolated applications, but will they agree to work together? Will the European Commission favor a unified AWE plan over the gaps and blind duplication of piecemeal R&D? Rod needs help to invite and gather everybody together. Contact him directly to join in. Non-EU players with unique capabilities and/or matching resources, are encouraged to join the KP Cooperative or otherwise closely affiliate with top EU partners.

The AWES Forum and AWEIA EU has long discussed and planned for a a phase of broad collaboration across all serious players (aka the 100M Euro "Fraunhofer Plan"). Now is the time, as H2020 deadlines loom, to assemble all the prior thinking about a research design for an integrated AWE validation effort. This will be the template needed for the collective H2020 draft submission Rod is assembling for his academic partners. Some of the major elements to propose- AWES testing protocols (from bench to fly-off), integrated simulations, engineering scoring-matrices, definitive economic studies, a five-year iterative R&D plan and budget, independent final results by Fraunhofer and non-partisan academia, and so on.

EU AWE may really come together under the H2020 mandate for excellence.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11517 From: dougselsam Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Professor Crackpot is everywhere: Danger!
News today: Canadian Study shows Mammograms do not reduce breast cancer deaths.
(Wow, somebody actually checked.  Amazing.  How many women have died in car accidents on their way to a mammogram?  How many have had cancer induced by the radiation?)
www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-breast-cancer-mammography-20140212,0,6053567.story#

Great Lakes Freezing Over - record ice coverage:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2557441/The-Great-freeze-Lake-Superior-covered-entirely-ice-winter-predicts-expert.html      bbbbbbbut what about "global warming"?  Oh, I forgot, it turned into "climate change"...

Eggs: not as bad for you as "we" thought...
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/eggs-regain-reputation/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Vegetable oils and margarine BAD for health, not good:
http://wellnessmama.com/2193/why-you-should-never-eat-vegetable-oil-or-margarine/

Butter is good for you? 
http://authoritynutrition.com/7-reasons-why-butter-is-good-for-you/

Fluoride kills, bad for teeth, health
http://fluoridealert.org/articles/50-reasons/

Honeywell, Whale Bumps, etc.
10 "new" types of Wind Turbines
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/solar-wind/4324331

Consumer reports says the Honeywell turbine barely functions...
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/october/home-garden/alternative-energy-update/overview/index.htm

You may note the SuperTurbine)R) coverage in the Popular Mechanics article.
Well, the press does OCCASIONALLY get something right...
:)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11518 From: dougselsam Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Will EU Pull Together for H2020 AWE R&D?
From what I've seen, all the European "teams" together would be doing well if they could produce a bowel movement.
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11519 From: Harry Valentine Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Professor Crackpot is everywhere: Danger!
Thanks Doug . . . . now I can go into my kitchen and cook some eggs with butter

To: AirborneWindEnergy@yahoogroups.com
From: dougselsam@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:58:43 -0800
Subject: [AWES] Professor Crackpot is everywhere: Danger!

 
News today: Canadian Study shows Mammograms do not reduce breast cancer deaths.
(Wow, somebody actually checked.  Amazing.  How many women have died in car accidents on their way to a mammogram?  How many have had cancer induced by the radiation?)
www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-breast-cancer-mammography-20140212,0,6053567.story#

Great Lakes Freezing Over - record ice coverage:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2557441/The-Great-freeze-Lake-Superior-covered-entirely-ice-winter-predicts-expert.html      bbbbbbbut what about "global warming"?  Oh, I forgot, it turned into "climate change"...

Eggs: not as bad for you as "we" thought...
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/28/eggs-regain-reputation/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Vegetable oils and margarine BAD for health, not good:
http://wellnessmama.com/2193/why-you-should-never-eat-vegetable-oil-or-margarine/

Butter is good for you? 
http://authoritynutrition.com/7-reasons-why-butter-is-good-for-you/

Fluoride kills, bad for teeth, health
http://fluoridealert.org/articles/50-reasons/

Honeywell, Whale Bumps, etc.
10 "new" types of Wind Turbines
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/solar-wind/4324331

Consumer reports says the Honeywell turbine barely functions...
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/october/home-garden/alternative-energy-update/overview/index.htm

You may note the SuperTurbine)R) coverage in the Popular Mechanics article.
Well, the press does OCCASIONALLY get something right...
:)
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11520 From: dougselsam Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Professor Crackpot is everywhere: Danger!
Ah yes the simple things in life.  Eggs.  Butter.  Clean water without poison added.  Studies that tell us if medical procedures are making a difference.  Climate science without Enron's input.  Wind turbine rotors without whale bumps.  Wind turbine rotors without extra blades.  Wind turbine rotors without cloth blades. Life can be so simple if you just stop listening to "official" press-release "science" by Professor Crackpot!
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11521 From: Rod Read Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Will EU Pull Together for H2020 AWE R&D?

FFS Doug.
Stay on topic and like all the other AWE people, I won't be defecating if you're observing

Roderick Read
15a Aiginish
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB
kitepowercoop.org

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11522 From: dave santos Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Earning the Forum Troll Award

  Doug wrote: "From what I've seen, all the European "teams" together would be doing well if they could produce a bowel movement."


The European AWE community does everything better than Doug, including basic Netiquette. This is no "Father of AWE",  but only the AWES Forum Troll, unfit for any serious R&D team. Forum moderation needs to act if Doug continues like this; hijacking working topics with toxic BS, and no relevant content at all, just an Ugly American-
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11523 From: dave santos Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Pumped-Hydro AWES Concept
A farm of kites lifting hoses (and/or bags) full of water high into the air can create a large common instantaneous head of water to drive a hydro-electric generator at higher-efficiency than ordinary pumped-hydro at a lower head. A simple valve suffices match load to generation, without complex gearing or close kite control.

This is not Pumped-Hydro Storage as such, but a distinct AWES concept, partly related to long-discussed concepts for kite-based wildfire-fighting, irrigation, etc..

CC BY NC SA
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11524 From: benhaiemp Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Will EU Pull Together for H2020 AWE R&D?

DougS,

Please try to produce something new _ it is possible_ with your ST instead insulting other teams.Due to playing the spoilt child you will eventually see hunting clubs praising your ST as trap with birds.

PierreB
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11525 From: Rod Read Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Will EU Pull Together for H2020 AWE R&D?

And like everyone else we should be discussing the terms of using arrays of superturbine type devices... I do really want to know that
And I have a drawing mash up that really could do with it

Roderick Read
15a Aiginish
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB
kitepowercoop.org

Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11526 From: dave santos Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Professor Crackpot is everywhere: Danger!
Doug,

The real problem for us is your mentally-unbalanced off-topic spam. 

Stop being the King Crackpot of wind power, far beyond any professor,

daveS


On Wednesday, February 12, 2014 3:07 PM, "dougselsam@yahoo.com" <dougselsam@yahoo.com
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11527 From: AirborneWindEnergy-owner@yahoogroups.com Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Management report
New members are moderated. 
To lower the spam rate, a member has just now been placed on moderation status. 

We invite substantive on-topic posts without personal attacks or harangue
on off-topic already-stated concerns in order to respect the time of participants. 
Messages will sometimes be returned for a request for posting under a fitting topic
or for formation up to Yahoo! policies with regard to spam and personal attacks. 
We have had a great run of development for RAD through this forum; the best is 
yet to come. Technicians, engineers, inventors, builders, pilots, and other RAD
stakeholders are invited to build AWE in part through this open public tech forum.

The recent opening of the AWES Museum as a platform for handling many AWE corners
is part of the unfolding growth of AWE. The progress toward systems comparative testing
by academia and other third-party agents with an eye for wise down-selecting from 
wide options is exciting. An AWE Fest may become a seed for like fieldings throughout
the world.  The rivulets of positive action are portending a critical threshold. The international
AWEIA has steadily progressed. There is an ennui about skinny and short single-wing groundgens and
drag flygens while excitement grows for massive lift of WECs, arrays, and rotationals, 
Ennui is not a dictator. The Phoenix may fly from the ashes in any sector of AWE yet.
No system is ousted for sure; and no winner has been validated. There will be niche
opportunities even for very esoteric AWES. For the giant utility electrical grids, courage
and validation both must occur. 

The awareness over the opportunities AWES to performs tasks continues to grow. 
There is room for the best minds on earth to do creative work in AWE. There is room 
for organizational leadership and daring investment in testing varied systems. While
some team have become quiet, there are other teams gaining steam by cooperation
and collaboration. 
    ~ JoeF
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11528 From: Rod Read Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Superturbine Mothra Mash up
Can Doug please comment

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11529 From: Rod Read Date: 2/12/2014
Subject: Re: Superturbine Mothra Mash up
I believe this design is super collectable and highly stackable.
OK it needs a few patches sewing, bearings set to shafts threaded through sail and pulleys run and mounted collected to a bottom gen... but otherwise
Nothing that any robot worth it's grease cannae do
CC3.0 nearly commercial BY SA

Rod Read

Windswept and Interesting Limited
15a Aiginis
Isle of Lewis
HS2 0PB

07899057227
01851 870878
Group: AirborneWindEnergy Message: 11530 From: Rod Read Date: 2/13/2014
Subject: Re: Superturbine Mothra Mash up
Attachments :
    Nature's similarity case...
    Energy sourcing mounted on stacked wings
    http://www.underwaterphotography.com/Photo-Contest/underwater-photo.aspx?i=77306#.UvyB_LSLOM8
    copyright image by

    Rod Read

    Windswept and Interesting Limited
    15a Aiginis
    Isle of Lewis
    HS2 0PB

    07899057227
    01851 870878